GTA V: Real money for fake gambling

[Hawick]

23 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

It's just the gambling bit seems to affect more people so more people are concerned about controlling it.

Finally, someone who gets it.

[Thaldor]

On 7/28/2019 at 8:17 PM, StoneyMahoney said:

Not a penny. I used to work in the gambling industry, it's a portion of my life I'd be ashamed of if it wasn't my first job out of university. Rockstar has *nothing* on those scumbags, the real gambling industry needs to die screaming, they wouldn't let anyone impose limits on them under any circumstances, they would certainly never self-impose those limits from day 1. It's not a perfect situation, but it's sooooooo much better than anyone else is doing.

You are basicly describing the game industry also. They don't give a shit and when someone says that they have crossed the line there comes the counter-argument: "You are suppressing our artistic freedom!" like monetization design would be some kind of art. Quite literally game industry is doing everything the same way as gambling industry, except no one is regulating that shit and they still strongly voice for self-regulatory that will come in place "sometime soon" (like they have voiced for the last at least 12 years, still what has happened: nothing the shit is still in freefall towards the fan, or even after the fan). Hell, game industry is using tricks that are forbidden for gambling industry for very clear reasons (AFAIK in most of the world casinos and establishments that use chips instead of real money must have rate 1 chip = 1 real money (€/$/£/whatever) or even that the chips has to be pointed in real money value, so that the players perception of using money isn't clouded as much, game industry laughs at this and goes "1 real money = 1000 gems" just because that clouds players perception of using real money).

 

"Self-impose limits" HAHAHAHAAAAAA.... IGDA and every single bigger game industry association just pats on the shoulders of EA, Ubisoft, mobile whalers and anyone who can give them good donation. So, nope, game industry will never self-regulate anything and only way to stop them is to make laws that regulate it and enforce those laws with iron fists. Game industry is even very much against unions because "they would suppress our artistic freedom of making timetables and release windows".

 

The worst part, game industry isn't even ashamed for the shit they do. You can find hours and hours of presentations and lectures about game monetization from YT and most of them are filled with ways to just to make players pay most probably and they are filled with simple psychology about how do you make a person addicted. Simple things like adding that 10 second timer that you can make disappear by spending 1 gem (which for the first time is given free, but after that it's going to be 1 cent or whatever the value of the gem is made) to "flash sales" of stuff that don't really have any other value because you can't buy that package from anywhere else (even better, make ridiculously prized packages to normal store which no one in their right mind would ever buy because they are stupidly priced, and have constant "-50% to -90%" flash sales which are actually the real prices), extra points for making the game milking machine (designing it so that every week there's an event or season or something that basicly zeroes everything for most of the players making their equipments, skills or whatever rubbish and forcing them to invest into new ones to stay competitive).

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, Hawick said:

Finally, someone who gets it.

I used to be a social worker in a low SES area of country Victoria, I was around when they legalized casinos and pokies in our state.  I was on a government panel investigating the effects of gambling on local communities.    I have a fairly reasonable foundational understanding of the problem gambling can be and how it affects society.  I would never want to take it away from those who aren't effected, but by the same token communities benefit as a whole when they are regulated properly and due precautions are taken.

[Guiltyxz]

On 7/24/2019 at 4:30 PM, Bravo1cc said:

In a recent change to GTA 5, of which i no longer play a new feature is that you can spend real money to gamble with in game for me this crosses a line, the official rating is 18 but we all know many underage children play this and so does the developer. I thing the people at fault on this on are Rockstar for a money grab and the parents of the children. It shocks me that many governments allow this practices and have yet to react properly to underage gambling habits.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49084726

 

In GTA Online, players can buy in-game "dollars" with real currency, and then convert their virtual dollars to gambling chips.

The game is rated for ages 18 and over, but remains popular among young teens.

The in-game currency can be used to acquire cars, weapons, and cosmetic items - and used to play slot machines, roulette, or poker.

Some players reported that while they could walk around the casino area, the gambling tables were blocked in their country where gambling is illegal.

Gamers had mixed reactions to the discovery that gambling chips can be purchased with real cash.

Popular British streamer Broughy1322, who was showcasing the new content on Twitch said: "They've done it, I can't believe they've done it," after finding that in-game dollars can be exchanged directly for chips.

"They've gone over the line of what they would, and it's a big problem that they allow you to buy chips with real money, frankly," he added later as viewers debated the system.

 

What do you guys think or feel about this and should this be legal still?

14yr old player of GTA Online here. Quite frankly, even though I really enjoy gambling (online and irl, also i dont have a problem, its mostly just like £10 on whos gonna win the sports match), and I have spend GTA$200,000 in the casino, im not gonna buy shark cards because when I want more money I just ask my friend who's a modder to load me some more money. But even if I didnt have a modder friend, I still wouldn't buy shark cards just to blow, anyway its hard too blow money quickly, the most you can bet one time is 15,000 chips, which equals GTA$15,000. I personally think they underestimate the maturity level of most kids. I did spend GTA$230,000 on champagne but that was for jokes and I wouldn't done it if I didn't have all that money. Even then I don't think the drinks are of interest to kids in there and even if they are, 4 most of the 7 ones there are free so not a big deal imo.

 

 

[StoneyMahoney]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Wait... so it's your fault we got strange tax reforms?! XD

There's a scene in the movie The Firm, Gene Hackman's character is giving Tom Cruise's character a pop quiz about the bar exam the company is prepping him for and gives him a pop quiz on what the different is between Tax Evasion and Tax Avoidance. The list of options is something like a) $200,000 fine, b) 15 years in prison, c) whatever the IRS says, or d) all of the above.

 

42 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

"Self-impose limits" HAHAHAHAAAAAA....

IKR?

42 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

They don't give a shit and when someone says that they have crossed the line there comes the counter-argument: "You are suppressing our artistic freedom!" like monetization design would be some kind of art.

If credit reference agencies can position the supply of inaccurate credit information on people as 1st amendment protected speech in the US, I'm sure legally establishing monetization mechanics as artistic expression would take about 5 minutes. I would say "people need to stop playing these games" but that's not the problem - 95% of people spend nothing (or almost nothing) on any of these games, it's the 5% who have more money than sense and don't think twice about spending a thousand bucks a week on crap like this who are ruining it for everyone else.

17 minutes ago, josbeph83 said:

I have spend GTA$200,000 in the casino, im not gonna buy shark cards because when I want more money I just ask my friend who's a modder to load me some more money. But even if I didnt have a modder friend, I still wouldn't buy shark cards just to blow, anyway its hard too blow money quickly, the most you can bet one time is 15,000 chips, which equals GTA$15,000.

I had completely forgotten about that - hosting your own server (heads up: TOS violation) means you can happily pump as much money as you want into your character's bank account for free. Voila - free casino. And have they really dropped the limit even lower than it started?!? DAMN, didn't see that coming!

[Guiltyxz]

1 hour ago, StoneyMahoney said:

There's a scene in the movie The Firm, Gene Hackman's character is giving Tom Cruise's character a pop quiz about the bar exam the company is prepping him for and gives him a pop quiz on what the different is between Tax Evasion and Tax Avoidance. The list of options is something like a) $200,000 fine, b) 15 years in prison, c) whatever the IRS says, or d) all of the above.

 

IKR?

If credit reference agencies can position the supply of inaccurate credit information on people as 1st amendment protected speech in the US, I'm sure legally establishing monetization mechanics as artistic expression would take about 5 minutes. I would say "people need to stop playing these games" but that's not the problem - 95% of people spend nothing (or almost nothing) on any of these games, it's the 5% who have more money than sense and don't think twice about spending a thousand bucks a week on crap like this who are ruining it for everyone else.

I had completely forgotten about that - hosting your own server (heads up: TOS violation) means you can happily pump as much money as you want into your character's bank account for free. Voila - free casino. And have they really dropped the limit even lower than it started?!? DAMN, didn't see that coming!

IKR 

[TechyBen]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

I don't even like the term tax evasion, it makes it sound like the person is doing something illegal or immoral.   The government write the tax rules, we all just follow them.  Of course we are going to use them as best we can to our advantage.    I worked half of my professional life self employed,  I didn't pay a cent of business tax the whole time, the reason the government doesn't care is because I still generated a few million in economic spending and the government earnt GST from my services.

 

 

There is legit tax evasion. Like, setting up a company in a remote location that does not exist, just for "mailing", but no mail goes there, then getting that "company" to transfer funds between 3 others, so the funds are all "at a loss", as each company charges the other for "fees", and thus makes no profit.

 

But then there is "I am buying an electric instead of a petrol because less tax" or "I am going LTD company instead of self employed (or visa versa) because of tax", where it's fair to choose what type of company, to avoid fees/taxes/etc.

 

A bit like, those Sky streaming services where someone puts a sky box/pirated NAS online for people to stream from and claiming it's technically "not" piracy.