Cyberpunk's creator slams critics who claim Cyberpunk 2077 is racist / inaccurate to the source, refutes their claims

[Video Beagle]

On 6/19/2019 at 2:24 PM, Nowak said:

 

Side note: Mike Pondsmith actually isn't the creator of cyberpunk. That would be William Gibson.

I think they meant Pondsmith is the creator Cyberpunk the game (which became Cyberpunk 2020 and 2077), as opposed to the genre.

[Commodus]

15 hours ago, DezGalbie said:

It's amazing the sense of entitlement which some people exude towards ownership of the art and expression of other people.

As some have said in this thread (and many others I'm sure would agree) the best advice is - if you don't like the game then don't play it.

But that's not enough for these people. They aren't content with deciding what is right for them, they insist upon dictating to others as well. It's a strange sort of entitlement. We wouldn't accept any of our elected officials having such a heavy-handed control over our expression and artwork, so why does anyone pay the slightest attention to random rainbow-haired Macbook tappers who like to play journalist, and who haven't been appointed as our collective representative on anything at all?

I guess it's all just the tribalism of ideologies. If your ideology naturally aligns with the ravings of the rainbow-haired then you are more likely to play along and treat them as an authority because it bolsters your side having another "authority" to point to. If your ideology opposes them then you are more likely to question their "authority".

We pay attention because they question the social constructs of games; they don't just blindly accept the status quo and think of games as dumb toys without meaning, like you do.  If we want games to be treated as art, we have to explore their social connotations.

 

This doesn't mean you should accept everything the "rainbow-haired MacBook tappers" (feel free to avoid stereotyping, by the way) write at face value.  They sometimes go overboard.  However, they're at least thinking, questioning, refusing to limit themselves to the superficial characteristics of a game.  I'd rather have that than pretend games exist in some kind of perfect social vacuum.

[SupremeGOAT]

14 hours ago, Derangel said:

And it never would have gotten the attention it did without the gaming press reporting on it all over.

In conclusion, these "journalists" did not care enough about that issue to look into it themselves but ride on the coattails of massive publicity it got on reddit, youtube and facebook. In relation to that major incident the purpose of the "games press" was mass distribution? If you really believe that story would not have gotten publicity without websites like ign or kotaku you really are blind.

 

15 hours ago, Derangel said:

We wouldn’t have governments looking into loot boxes without the combined efforts of gamers and the gaming press.

Minus the "gaming press" from the equation and the result would still be the same. The "gaming press" only reported on Belgium banning loot boxes not influence them. Belgium's actions brought light to the matter and caused a domino effect in other countries .

15 hours ago, Derangel said:

No, the purpose of games journalism is to report on the game industry. Be that reviews

Done.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, SupremeGOAT said:

The reviews listed under an item on Amazon provided a wider field of view than a single person reviewing 1 item in an Article.

The reviews listed on steam provide pinpoint and up to date listings of pros and cons as they arise as opposed to an article that is released on launch day.

 

15 hours ago, Derangel said:

news

Define "news"

 

15 hours ago, Derangel said:

or real investigative pieces

Like the "Cyberpunk 2077 is racist" piece...

 

The truth is games journalism is not necessary anymore. Like mainstream television, we have evolved beyond that. A piece like "rockstar overworks staff members" has nothing to do with the game, that is an ethical issue for real Journalists.

15 hours ago, Derangel said:

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

dread it, run from it, destiny arrives all the same

[Sauron]

On 6/20/2019 at 11:48 PM, miagisan said:

Do you one better,

 

Imagine Mel Brook's movies being released today.

 

Blazing Saddles would literally start a new civil war in this country lol

Bullshit. Blazing Saddles makes fun of racists, not of black people. The fact you can't see this and think leftists have a problem with Mel Brooks shows how little you understand of any of these topics.

 

And there are plenty of modern shows or films that make fun of people of various ethnicities without significant backlash.

On 6/20/2019 at 10:05 PM, SenpaiKaplan said:

So what? A left leaning journalist got offended over something insignificant.

He said in a thread where people are getting insanely triggered over said journalist's "insignificant" opinion. 10/10 self awareness.

On 6/20/2019 at 10:05 PM, SenpaiKaplan said:

I think anybody who spends more than 2 seconds reading "alternate media" (as one of my professors once called it, I've yet to find a better term) like BuzzFeed and VOX will find that this is nothing new.

BuzzFeed is "alternative media"? Do you know what the term "alternative" means? BuzzFeed is an unscrupulous mainstream corporation that will write anything they think will get them clicks. Nothing about what they do is alternative or left leaning. They repackage progressive rhetoric in the form of lifestyle marketing and take out all the anticorporatism that would condemn them.

On 6/20/2019 at 8:48 PM, Chett_Manly said:

Of course games are political, all art is, but until around 2013 there was not a concerted effort to force ALL games to be politically correct to the left wing Western audience.

Uh... you literally just made that up. The only thing that happened in 2013 is that people started making money by pushing this ludicrous nonsense.

 

Also where the fuck is this "left wing western audience"? Most of Europe is governed by conservatives and so is the US.

On 6/20/2019 at 8:48 PM, Chett_Manly said:

Cyberpunk is not going to be politically correct for Western Leftists, and the attempts to force it to be by games journalists are despicable and evil. Sorry Games Journos, your attempt at bullying CD Projekt Red into conforming to your political viewpoint has failed.

lol, so one journalist saying they think a trailer is transphobic is an "attempt at bullying CD Projekt Red into conforming to your political viewpoint" by game journalists as a whole now? I would expect this level of insight from an 11 year old.

On 6/21/2019 at 6:07 AM, Defcon said:

Why do people even bother to acknowledge virtue signalers? If you don't give them the validation they are looking for with their ridiculous attention seeking comments/rants/articles then they would crawl back into their holes of irrelevancy.

The IRONY! You say we shouldn't give this attention but you made an account specifically to comment about this. Seems to me you think this is relevant after all.

On 6/20/2019 at 9:46 PM, System32.exe said:

trying to label them fascist just weakens the term.

They want to weaken the term. Being called a fascist carries less of a stigma if you can say that everyone else is a fascist too.

On 6/20/2019 at 10:03 PM, SenpaiKaplan said:

>Antifa are pretty low on the totem poll

 

I bring you the result of a 2 second google. ANTIFA in the US is a far left radicalist group that has 0 ties to what it was created for. Calling what we have in the states ANTIFA is honestly a joke, and not even a funny one.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/8/antifa-targets-tucker-carlson-hit-list-expands-con/

Still waiting for the list of people targeted and killed by antifa. In 2 seconds of googling I can find you quite a few of those for the far right and I don't need to go back more than a few months.

[Jito463]

7 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

The commercial is a chain of women removing their shirts and turning into other people...I think an asian woman became the black woman and the white woman became a latin woman...been a while since I've seen it so I don't quite recall the order...those pics are like a half second of a long change. (Iirc, it's about dove soap being great for everyone).

It's almost like context matters.

[EldritchMoose]

19 hours ago, SupremeGOAT said:

When you read an article from a gaming "journalist" on gaming news website about a particular game, what exactly are you looking for?

Information about the game, including but not limited to:

 

- story and themes

- gameplay

- graphical and technical design

- how it stacks up to similar games or other entries in the same series

- how long will it take to complete

- plans for additional content

- are there microtransactions? Is there loot box bullshit going on?

- behind the scenes stuff about the production of the game, the developer or the publisher

 

Basically, I want to know whether or not I'm likely to want to buy a game and I generally base my opinion on a number of reviews. In addition, I like to know what goes on in one of my favourite entertainment industries. I want to know if there are games coming that I can get excited about and if there are, I'll want to know more about those games.

 

I want to make up my mind about the games I buy and the ones I don't buy. I cannot do that without information that doesn't come directly from the publisher (marketing) so I read reviews and articles written by people who aren't the publisher.

57 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

Define "news"

 

Current events. Reviews of recent and upcoming releases, previews of upcoming releases or upcoming content. Background information on the industry and people working in it.

Quote

Like the "Cyberpunk 2077 is racist" piece...

And the "what the fuck went wrong with the development of Anthem?" and "Guess which developer is overworking its staff this week?" pieces...

 

Bad journalists exist, badly written articles exist. However, just because not everything is good doesn't make something obsolete. Good journalism is based on information from sources that is then verified with other sources. There is a process to this that cannot just be replaced by anons posting shit to Reddit for their sweet, sweet karma. Journalists are trained to look for information and to ask follow-up questions to provide more clarity.

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

It's almost like context matters.

It's a shame when context is deleted/hidden/ignored.

[SupremeGOAT]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

We pay attention because they question the social constructs of games; they don't just blindly accept the status quo and think of games as dumb toys without meaning, like you do.

... you mean like a game?... 

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

If we want games to be treated as art,

the art of tic tac toe... i want games to be treated as games. I'll look for purpose somewhere else

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

we have to explore their social connotations.

i dont have to do that. If there is something in a game I don't like guess what i'll do... YOU'LL NEVER GUESS... guess... not buy it... give it the idfwu treatment because i understand this was not made for me and i can move on with my life. 

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

This doesn't mean you should accept everything the "rainbow-haired MacBook tappers" (feel free to avoid stereotyping, by the way) write at face value.

They are children who think everything should cater to them. They stereotype themselves. None of their opinions are driven by logic...  The mere thought of them is unsettling.

4 hours ago, Commodus said:

However, they're at least thinking

they are not... 

4 hours ago, Commodus said:

questioning, refusing to limit themselves to the superficial characteristics of a game.

reading into more than whats there... that is their superpower

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

I'd rather have that than pretend games exist in some kind of perfect social vacuum.

you keep forcing yourself to eat food you don't like then complain about it, just keep it to yourself.

[Commodus]

40 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

the art of tic tac toe... i want games to be treated as games. I'll look for purpose somewhere else

Well, game developers frequently want their work to be treated as more than just games, and there's a massive amount of people who'd like games to be respected as an art medium as well.  You don't speak for all gamers, and we certainly shouldn't be as small-minded as you.

 

40 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

i dont have to do that. If there is something in a game I don't like guess what i'll do... YOU'LL NEVER GUESS... guess... not buy it... give it the idfwu treatment because i understand this was not made for me and i can move on with my life. 

You don't have to explore social connotations, but that doesn't mean no one else should, either.  There's a tremendous irony here -- you've been whining that games journos are trying to make definitive pronouncements from on high, yet here you are trying to tell us that your opinion is the only one that matters.

 

40 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

They are children who think everything should cater to them. They stereotype themselves. None of their opinions are driven by logic...  The mere thought of them is unsettling.

Absolute, unsupported assertions like the one you just made are illogical, you do know that, right?  You want to make that claim?  You will provide evidence with your next reply.  No exceptions, no excuses, no weaselling out.

 

40 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

reading into more than whats there... that is their superpower

Just because you don't understand concepts like "critical thinking" and "subtext" doesn't mean there aren't meanings beyond the superficial gloss.

 

Listen, there are simple realities at work here: games journalists aren't going away, and many people feel they do enough valid work to justify their presence.  Moaning like you are isn't going to change those facts.  You don't like what they're saying?  Then don't read their work, and don't pretend that we're all going to "see the light" and convert to your way of thinking.  I find it rather sad that someone like you would look at the entire game industry, with many obvious examples of artistic expression and deeper meanings, and decide that what he'd most like to do is turn his mind off.

[ravenshrike]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Bullshit. Blazing Saddles makes fun of racists, not of black people. The fact you can't see this and think leftists have a problem with Mel Brooks shows how little you understand of any of these topics.

Bullshit on your bullshit.

 

https://variety.com/2017/film/news/mel-brooks-blazing-saddles-pc-culture-1202568893/

 

 

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, ravenshrike said:

Bullshit on your bullshit.

 

https://variety.com/2017/film/news/mel-brooks-blazing-saddles-pc-culture-1202568893/

Brooks can say what he wants but that doesn't change the content of his film. And believe me, he's not saying that because he thinks comedy should be racist.

[SenKa]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

BuzzFeed is "alternative media"? Do you know what the term "alternative" means? BuzzFeed is an unscrupulous mainstream corporation that will write anything they think will get them clicks. Nothing about what they do is alternative or left leaning. They repackage progressive rhetoric in the form of lifestyle marketing and take out all the anticorporatism that would condemn them.

I would certainly say many of their writers have a very strong left leaning ideology, or their writing suggests so. I used the term alternative media simply because I have been unable to find a better term, my professor (a very left leaning person herself, for whatever it's worth) used the term "alternative media" to describe BuzzFeed and I thought it fit.

 

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Still waiting for the list of people targeted and killed by antifa. In 2 seconds of googling I can find you quite a few of those for the far right and I don't need to go back more than a few months.

The man who I responded to this for DM'd me to continue the conversation, I never stated that the radical left was better or worse than the radical right. I should have stated this better in my first post. I also do not believe that one is worse than the other, they are equal evils.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

I also do not believe that one is worse than the other, they are equal evils.

But again, that's a pretty bold claim considering I can provide you with a quite substantial body count for the radical right in "western" countries in recent years while you couldn't do that with the radical left.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

I never stated that the radical left was better or worse than the radical right. I should have stated this better in my first post. I also do not believe that one is worse than the other, they are equal evils.

While this true, it pisses me off when this “counter argument” is used to dismiss s valid point in a conversation that is only discussing one side.

[ravenshrike]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Brooks can say what he wants but that doesn't change the content of his film. And believe me, he's not saying that because he thinks comedy should be racist.

Rather, I took exception to the idea that leftists haven't started shitting on his films.

[cj09beira]

54 minutes ago, Sauron said:

But again, that's a pretty bold claim considering I can provide you with a quite substantial body count for the radical right in "western" countries in recent years while you couldn't do that with the radical left.

are the 100 million deaths in russia and mao's china not recent enough, how about north korea or Venezuela 

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Rather, I took exception to the idea that leftists haven't started shitting on his films.

I'm pretty close to being a leftist, I like his films. Can you show me an example of leftist critique of them?

[Sauron]

29 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

are the 100 million deaths in russia and mao's china not recent enough, how about north korea or Venezuela 

Maybe you should learn how to read before you attempt politics.

Quote

I can provide you with a quite substantial body count for the radical right in "western" countries in recent years while you couldn't do that with the radical left.

Furthermore your Russian stats are ludicrous fucking lies used to defend nazism by neonazis. "Yeah, Hitler was kinda bad but did you know communism killed 10 trillion people?". The estimated number of deaths connected to Stalinism is around 10 million, which is horrible but nowhere fucking near 100 million. Russia has 150 million inhabitants today, can't you see how stupid thinking Stalin killed 100 million in the '30s and '40s is?

 

We're not talking about totalitarian governments or anything that happened more than 10 years ago here, we're talking about civilian political terrorism, a realm in which the "western" right is far more proficient than the left.

 

I'm no fan of Stalin and neither is antifa, the group we were actually talking about - they're anarchists. But sure, keep conflating all leftism with Stalin while being ready to whine when someone calls a nazi a nazi.

 

-edit-

corrected figure after further reading

[Jito463]

9 minutes ago, Sauron said:

we're talking about civilian political terrorism, a realm in which the "western" right is far more proficient than the left

False.  I can point to numerous shootings by the left, such as the shooting of Steve Scalise or that of Gabby Giffords.  Don't mistake the media narrative for statistical evidence.

 

However, can't we just agree that insane people are insane and drop it before this topic gets locked?

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

False.  I can point to numerous shootings by the left, such as the shooting of Steve Scalise or that of Gabby Giffords.  Don't mistake the media narrative for statistical evidence.

I asked for the body count. The best you could come up with where two failed attacks on politicians whereas I can point you to mass shootings on random innocent bystanders where dozens of people died. I rest my case.

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

However, can't we just agree that insane people are insane and drop it before this topic gets locked?

Oh I will drop it because I think we're threading a fine line but make no mistake - there is no equivalence between antifa and neonazis. The only people who would tell you they are are either nazi sympathizers or people who don't know any better, of which I hope you are the latter.

[ARikozuM]

2 hours ago, SupremeGOAT said:

the art of tic tac toe... i want games to be treated as games. I'll look for purpose somewhere else

The whole point of art is to make individuals think. Imagine having to yell all inequalities in public? You'd likely get silenced by the right. Art and music has done a lot for civil rights over the last 300 years for the US and since the dawn of mankind. Games are a form of art and expression.

 

If you don't like it, move on, we don't need you. Go play Raptor Island. Shoot up a couple thousand dinosaurs in a mindless shoot-em-up that shows how some gamers are looking for monotony. 

[Jito463]

13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

whereas I can point you to mass shootings on random innocent bystanders where dozens of people died. I rest my case

And yet, you haven't.  You've only made the claim without any evidence.  Feel free to continue you this through PM, because I'd love to see what you come up with.

[cj09beira]

18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Maybe you should learn how to read before you attempt politics.

Furthermore your Russian stats are ludicrous fucking lies used to defend nazism by neonazis. "Yeah, Hitler was kinda bad but did you know communism killed 10 trillion people?". The estimated number of deaths connected to Stalinism is around 10 million, which is horrible but nowhere fucking near 100 million. Russia has 150 million inhabitants today, can't you see how stupid thinking Stalin killed 100 million in the '30s and '40s is?

 

We're not talking about totalitarian governments or anything that happened more than 10 years ago here, we're talking about civilian political terrorism, a realm in which the "western" right is far more proficient than the left.

 

I'm no fan of Stalin and neither is antifa, the group we were actually talking about - they're anarchists. But sure, keep conflating all leftism with Stalin while being ready to whine when someone calls a nazi a nazi.

 

-edit-

corrected figure after further reading

100 million is around the total number of deaths from russia and china combined not separate, which is the current accepted figure as far as i can see.

and i did try to find the context, guess i didn't read enough of the previous posts.

 

8 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I asked for the body count. The best you could come up with where two failed attacks on politicians whereas I can point you to mass shootings on random innocent bystanders where dozens of people died. I rest my case.

Oh I will drop it because I think we're threading a fine line but make no mistake - there is no equivalence between antifa and neonazis. The only people who would tell you they are are either nazi sympathizers or people who don't know any better, of which I hope you are the latter.

i dont think body count is the best way to see whats worse, now both are horrible, but from what i have seen antifa causes a lot more problems, last time i heard of nazis was about a protest they were making and how only five people showed up, antifa on the other hand has been causing trouble many times people like ben shapiro and many others go do talks, they have destroyed some property, have been caught distributing knifes during a normal protest, and planning to bring aks, etc 

[Sauron]

Just now, cj09beira said:

last time i heard of nazis was about a protest they were making and how only five people showed up

Look up the Charlottesville rally, that's all I'm going to say.

[SenKa]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

But again, that's a pretty bold claim considering I can provide you with a quite substantial body count for the radical right in "western" countries in recent years while you couldn't do that with the radical left.

I probably could, I live in a very densely populated area of radical left politics.

 

But, regardless, I hold my opinion and you hold yours. I would always be more than happy to debate with you or anybody on my opinions, but a thread about a video game is not the time or place,