Cyberpunk's creator slams critics who claim Cyberpunk 2077 is racist / inaccurate to the source, refutes their claims

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Derangel said:

No, all sources do NOT have a place in a serious debate. A literal definition does absolutely nothing to further the discussion because no one is arguing what the word MEANS. The literal meaning of the word has nothing whatsoever to do with the debate.

in debates, the meanings of terms are usually laid out before the show gets moving. What @Drak3 is doing is trying to change the actual definition mid-debate. 

[Derangel]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Multiple people are.

 

Given that multiple people have made the erroneous claim that art is intrinsically political, yes, it does.

Incorrect. People saying something is political does not mean that the literal meaning of the world has to include the word "political". The literal meaning of the word "art" leaves no room for any kind of message or deeper meaning. Which is obviously false.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

What @Drak3 is doing is trying to change the actual definition mid-debate. 

False. People have made a claim that is outright false. They haven't backed up their claim.

 

I have.

[Derangel]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

False. People have made a claim that is outright false. They haven't backed up their claim.

 

I have.

No, you are trying to use irreverent facts to "prove" an opinion. If you don't believe all art is political, fine, you're welcome to your opinion. If you want to back it provide EXAMPLES not word definitions.

[Drak3]

Just now, Derangel said:

If you want to back it provide EXAMPLES not word definitions.

I did. You ignored it.

 

Just now, Derangel said:

No, you are trying to use irreverent facts to "prove" an opinion.

Again, false. I used two sources to back up an argument: Art is not intrinsically political.

[ARikozuM]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

As far as I am concerned, if someone is using art to push a political agenda,  then it is no longer art.  It has just become a thing to illustrate/communicate a message.

So, art? 

 

I would hate to see what you think of Rockwell, Goya, or, God forbid, Raphael art-pieces. 

[Derangel]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

I did. You ignored it.

 

Again, false. I used two sources to back up an argument: Art is not intrinsically political.

If you proved actual examples of entirely non-political art I missed it. If your "example" is the dictionary then I reject the argument.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

So, art? 

 

I would hate to see what you think of Rockwell, Goya, or, God forbid, Raphael art-pieces. 

Or some of Picasso's pieces, like Guernica (1937).

[Drak3]

Just now, Derangel said:

If you proved actual examples of entirely non-political art I missed it. If your "example" is the dictionary then I reject the argument.

OneShot. I quoted you specifically when you asked about a non political game with compelling narrative.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Or some of Picasso's pieces, like Guernica (1937).

 

 

Me after eating Indian food. 

[Jito463]

7 minutes ago, Derangel said:

If you don't believe all art is political, fine, you're welcome to your opinion. If you want to back it provide EXAMPLES not word definitions.

I ask you, what is political about this?

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

what is political about this?

It obviously portrays the peacefulness and prosperity of the world before white people.

 

 

Obviously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I ask you, what is political about this?

Name and year of painting? 

 

"well, we can see this is using oil-based paints. There's a small pond drying up and trees becoming bare. This could be the author telling us that climate change is coming."

 

What? This is from 1608? Never mind then. 

[Serin]

But you're all fine with being able to make your characters trans' or non-binary, right?

[Drak3]

Just now, Serin said:

But you're all fine with being able to make your characters trans' or non-binary, right?

Couldn't care less. Tons of headcannon out there that does it already.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Serin said:

But you're all fine with being able to make your characters trans' or non-binary, right?

I'm fine with that. I usually hate when costume pieces are closed behind a gender. One of the main premises of this game is the melding of human and robotics and how both sides are at odds with each other. 

[Derangel]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

OneShot. I quoted you specifically when you asked about a non political game with compelling narrative.

Looking at the Wiki of the game's plot I'm not entirely sure how you can claim its not political. Seems like it deals with a god-like force that went out of control and destroyed the world. The player is an actual character in the game and the player is a messiah figure for the world. I'd have to see how some of the dialog is handled and the like, but it definitely sounds like a game with something to say or a message to give the player. I'll reserve judgement until I get a chance to play it though as the look of the game and story description caught my attention.

 

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

I ask you, what is political about this?

I mean, I could go all "art snob" and make up some political statement with that art. However, without knowing the details behind it or the person that made it its hard to say. It could be something as simple as "this is pretty" or it could be something talking about the beauty of nature.

[Drak3]

Just now, Derangel said:

I'm not entirely sure how you can claim its not political.

Probably because it doesn't deal with politics.

 

1 minute ago, Derangel said:

Seems like it deals with a god-like force that went out of control and destroyed the world. The player is an actual character in the game and the player is a messiah figure for the world

Religion =/= politics.

 

1 minute ago, Derangel said:

It could be something as simple as "this is pretty" or it could be something talking about the beauty of nature.

Neither of those are political statements.

[applebook]

Gaming "journalism" needs to end. Please. 

[mr moose]

24 minutes ago, Derangel said:

You have a pretty shallow, and bad, understanding of art.

you have a pretty shallow and bad way of considering opinions.
.

 

16 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

So, art? 

 

I would hate to see what you think of Rockwell, Goya, or, God forbid, Raphael art-pieces. 

 

Did they promote a political agenda or did they simply draw what they saw?   Using art to illustrate life or issues is not the same as pushing a political agenda.

 

Most art is defined as works designed to be appreciated.   A piece by it's existence stirs emotion of some kind.   A piece of work design to convey a political message by contrast has an altogether different motive. 

 

Even works of art that depict great tragedies at the hands of political institutions are not political messages.  

[Jito463]

11 minutes ago, Serin said:

But you're all fine with being able to make your characters trans' or non-binary, right?

Personally I think it's dumb, but so long as they don't force it down my throat I couldn't care less.

7 minutes ago, Derangel said:

I mean, I could go all "art snob" and make up some political statement with that art. However, without knowing the details behind it or the person that made it its hard to say. It could be something as simple as "this is pretty" or it could be something talking about the beauty of nature.

In other words, it's not political unless someone makes it political.  Ergo, not all art is political.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Did they promote a political agenda or did they simply draw what they saw?   Using art to illustrate life or issues is not the same as pushing a political agenda.

I didn't say all art pushes politics. This game does push a political message and the writer pushes their own interpretation of it. You can depict what you see and still get a message out to everyone. 

 

[Derangel]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Probably because it doesn't deal with politics.

 

Religion =/= politics.

 

Neither of those are political statements.

I think you're misunderstanding the usage of the term here. A piece of art with a "preserve the Earth" message is political. Politics is far more than the asinine right/left bullshit people love to bitch about. Or, rather, politics is more than just political parties, agendas, and the people running a country.

 

6 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

In other words, it's not political unless someone makes it political.  Ergo, not all art is automatically political.

And, this is a prime example of a bad faith argument. Not a single word you said matches anything I wrote.

[Drak3]

Just now, Derangel said:

A piece of art with a "preserve the Earth" message is political.

You created that message yourself, and that's not a political statement. It's just a statement.

 

You also ignored this:

16 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Probably because it doesn't deal with politics.

 

Religion =/= politics.

 

Neither of those are political statements.

1 minute ago, Derangel said:

this is a prime example of a bad faith argument

No, it's not. You claimed that art is political. He asked you what was political about it, and when said you couldn't answer he said that art is not automatically political.

 

 

If anyone here is making bad faith arguments, it's you.

[Derangel]

Just now, Drak3 said:

You created that message yourself, and that's not a political statement. It's just a statement.

 

You also ignored this:

No, it's not. You claimed that art is political. He asked you what was political about it, and when said you couldn't answer he said that art is not automatically political.

 

 

If anyone here is making bad faith arguments, it's you.

Exactly how drunk or high are you?

 

I didn't "ignore" anything. I said you seem to be misunderstanding the way the term is being used. I also VERY FUCKING CLEARLY said I won't judge the game without playing but the plot description makes it sound like the game has a message.

 

I'm not a mother fucking mind reader. Of course I can't comment on what some unknown artist may have been thinking or intending when they created that piece.