Cyberpunk's creator slams critics who claim Cyberpunk 2077 is racist / inaccurate to the source, refutes their claims

[ThePD]

12 hours ago, Nowak said:

Yeah but every gamer points that to that when talking about "politics in muh vidya" while completely ignoring actual political messages and themes in games. I guess it's fine so long as it doesn't deal with identities other than White Straight Man.

 

By the way, did you know that absolutely no customization options in Cyberpunk 2077 are gender-locked, allowing you to create trans and non-binary characters? Guess that makes it political and therefore bad now huh?

 You are making assumptions that I care Cyberpunk is allowing trans and non-binary characters, I don't. The whole setting of the game revolves around body modification. It makes sense in the context of the game allowing you to heavily modify your character and play the way you want to play. The outrage at Cyberpunk 2077 was that SJW's felt the game was misrepresenting transgenders in the game via the poster seen in the screenshots. Like you said previously, the game allows you to create trans/non-binary characters, so why the fake outrage? Don't complain about not being represented and then complain when you are.

BF5 context is WWII, an era where women were forcefully restricted from serving in the front lines of war. There were instances of women forming militia in France and the Russian sniper squad but DICE never focused on these aspects. The US and the UK never allowed women to serve in the front lines. So when people saw the woman with the prosthetic arm in the trailer they were outraged as it broke the historical context of the game. If DICE had said "This is an alternate view of WWII", people would of probably let things slide a bit easier knowing there were going to be other things that did not make sense with the setting of the game. Instead they said "This is our interpretation of WWII and if you don't like it then you are uneducated" and then told customers "Don't buy it if you don't like it." Guess what, people didn't buy it. DICE claimed their interpretation of WWII was justified and the user base deemed that it was not.

Bioshock a game about the collapse of the utopian society created the political setting. Once the setting was created, all of the politics within the game had context to the political setting the game was based in. How do you think people would of reacted if they saw messages of transgenderism in the 1950's setting where the concept of transgenderism had not existed yet. Would those messages of contributed to the game, or dectracted?

Should I be angry at Diablo 2 for forcing me to play a woman sorceress? No, because I don't care about that shit.

Why is it wrong for people to expect to stick to the context in which the games are placed? This is not an issue about the 'Straight White Man'.
 

[Lathlaer]

Shocking, there are people to whom the gritty, dystopian and nihilistic world of Cyberpunk isn't soft, delicate and cultured enough

 

It seems to me that when CP got so hyped there obviously had to be some guy who will slap negative clickbaity title in order to get attention. 

 

Just like on Rotten Tomatoes when you have an universally acclaimed movie with 98% rating, there will always be those 5 guys out of 200 who'll say it's crap.

 

 

[ThePD]

7 hours ago, Celli said:

Those are the specs CDPR used for the E3 demo.

I thought the E3 demo specs were being run on a Titan RTX?

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

3 hours ago, EldritchMoose said:

Oh yeah, it's people these days that are the problem. It's nothing like the good old days where parents around America ralliued together to ban video games because a Florida lawyer told them GTA was evil. Or tried to have music albums banned because some of the tracks may have featured a naughty word or two...

 

Or that time when D&D and rock music were clearly tools of Lucifer the fallen archangel intended to win over children's souls. Or remember when the Beatles inspired a serial killer? Fatty Arbuckle's sex parties?

 

Moral panics and resulting pearl clutching has been around for as long as the entertainment industry has existed. All that's happening now is that everyone has a platform, so everyone seems more vocal (kinda like how people used to not know any gay people because they knew nothing about the world beyond the Bumfuck Nowhere, VA city limits. 

So my argument is still valid then. Sure snowflakes have been around for all of history but you've only reinforced my point, now only really since the introduction of social media has it given people a stage.

 

I think someones triggered considering the amount of people you quoted lol

[illegalwater]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

That's not what Antifa does. They attack anyone that disagrees with their (Fascist) views.

Imagine unironically thinking that Antifa are fascists.

[suicidalfranco]

5 minutes ago, System32.exe said:

Yes, it is. Have you literally never studied history? Every fascist regime practiced white supremacy.

There was only one fascist regime. It wasn't about white supremacy, but focused on hypernationalism.

[maartendc]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

 

It appears to me like you imagined having read something in the OP that isn't actually there, and so you assumed things about why people are saying what they're saying.

Nah bro, i was quoting you from your post that i quoted, not from your "OP".

 

Anyways, I dont give a damn about what any of you are talking about. So You crazy kids enjoy yourselves.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Not always.  Anita doesn't play games, but makes hipster with a degree comments while contradicting the rules of the games for an agenda.

IIrc Anita said she played a whole lot of games to get up to speed on the medium. Either way, this isn's Anita and Anita has been retired for a while if I'm not mistaken.

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

There's also biased pro gamer journalists that play games, but rate or bitch about them due to biased reasons.  One dude at Game Informer use to give games bad reviews, even if the game was actually good, because he hated the fact that it was anime game.

"Even if the game was actually good" - you realize that's a matter of opinion? Beyond the stability and performance of the game there are basically no objective criticisms that can be made. So what if the journalist doesn't like anime games? That's his opinion. Since he said it in the article you can take his opinion with a grain of salt if you don't share that view.

7 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Now, another guy there that loved anime didn't let that blind him from the fact an anime game could be bad.  Legacy of Goku, for example, was maybe a 5 at best due to repetitive gameplay mechanics meets really bad and broken puzzle solving with things that didn't even have to do with the manga or anime.  So, ya...  I think it comes down to who is reviewing it because some might be trying to push an agenda while others might just hate what they are reviewing.

...again, just a matter of perspective and opinion. I could just say this journalist is biased against repetitive mechanics and puzzles by your logic. What "agenda" is being pushed when someone says they don't like anime? lol

3 minutes ago, System32.exe said:

What does that have to do with Antifa?

Louder with Crowder? Thanks for the laugh. Do you have a source that isn't run by a man that's both disingenuous and a comedian climate change denier?

ftfy

 

To be a comedian he'd have to be funny

[Morgan MLGman]

I removed the conversation about Antifa, this isn't a thread about Antifa. It was mentioned as an example but it's not the focus of this topic.

Please keep it civil and don't go too far in terms of political conversations, the thread will be monitored by the mod team

[Sauron]

36 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

There was only one fascist regime. It wasn't about white supremacy, but focused on hypernationalism.

Lol what? I can name 4 just off the top of my head; Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, imperial Japan.

 

And are you honestly saying that Hitler wasn't a white supremacist? The guy literally wanted to kill or enslave every other ethnicity, claiming they were inferior. This is indisputable historical fact, if you heard otherwise I urge you to distrust your sources.

[Morgan MLGman]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Lol what? I can name 4 just off the top of my head; Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, imperial Japan.

 

And are you honestly saying that Hitler wasn't a white supremacist? The guy literally wanted to kill or enslave every other ethnicity, claiming they were inferior. This is indisputable historical fact, if you heard otherwise I urge you to distrust your sources.

I think he was, and I think you're right.

But I don't think Mussolini was, this is why being a white supremacist doesn't inherently mean that you're also a fascist, same with being a nationalist - it also doesn't make you a fascist, fascism is a bit more than just one thing. Let's not discuss this matter further here

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Not sure if Mussolini was a white supremacist

That was the part MLG meant.

[The King of the Undead]

seen a beautiful sunset

guy #1 isn't this a beautiful sunset?

guy #2 no! It doesn't have any black thus it it racist.

guy #3 no! It doesn't support my ideas

guy #1 for the love of all that is holly can we just enjoy a sunset?!!

guys 1and2 NO!!!

[Morgan MLGman]

5 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fascist+regime

Basically, a dictator and/or supremacist leader = a fascist.  Not sure if Mussolini was a white supremacist on Hilter's level, but he was still, by definition, a fascist.

I agree, but I know history quite well. Especially the WW1-WW2 period. Mussolini created the first fascist regime so I agree that he was one.

 

Please let this topic go because we've derailed too far from the original thread. I'm happy to discuss history but we shouldn't do that here

[Sauron]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

While that's true to a point he basically was saying the game was shit because anime.  He'd ignore all the other factors of the game, and just say the game was bad because anime.

That's... his opinion. And even if that made him a bad journalist on its own, what does one bad journalist have to do with the validity of the profession as a whole and the topic at hand?

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

A biased review is still a biased review is my point.  Even if you play a game that doesn't mean you can't have a biased opinion on that, and/or use that for the sake of your bitching either.  Also, sure the person bitching about this might play games; however, that doesn't mean there isn't a biased reason as to why they're bitching.  And, that's the problem.

Every review is biased.

Just now, Morgan MLGman said:

I think he was, and I think you're right.

But I don't think Mussolini was, this is why being a white supremacist doesn't inherently mean that you're also a fascist, same with being a nationalist - it also doesn't make you a fascist, fascism is a bit more than just one thing. Let's not discuss this matter further here

Mussolini cooperated with Hitler in deporting Italian Jews. It wasn't one of his main political stances but he certainly wasn't against it. As for whether a white supremacist is automatically a fascist - I don't see any other political stance that is compatible with the idea that white people are just better and should rule over the rest of humanity. If there is a separation, it's meaningless - every white supremacist I've heard speak has also brought up fascist talking points.

 

I'm ok with not discussing it further but this isn't even a question of agreeing or disagreeing with an idea - it's just the definition of what that idea entails and the factual history around it.

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fascist+regime

Basically, a dictator and/or supremacist leader = a fascist.  Not sure if Mussolini was a white supremacist on Hilter's level, but he was still, by definition, a fascist.

Mussolini invented the term "fascism". Hitler said multiple times he was heavily inspired by Mussolini.

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

North Korea since the 60s, Mao, Polpot, and more too.  Basically, any country ruled by a dictator can be seen as a fascist regime.  

No, a dictatorial regime is not necessarily fascist. That's not what the word means. You can have extreme authoritarianism without being a fascist (though that doesn't make it good).

[Sauron]

13 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

"I hate anime; therefore, the game is bad" -biased review

"I like anime, but this game isn't that great.  It tries to attract fans of the manga and anime, but there are some serious mechanic issues, non-canon aspects that aren't that great and get repetitive/grind heavy, not really great puzzles on the rpg side that are a tad buggy, etc..."  -unbiased review.

No, that's just the difference between someone who knows how to write and someone who doesn't. "non-canon aspects that aren't great" is just as biased of a sentence as "anime is bad". The author doesn't like it and therefore says it's bad.

15 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I will leave the history thing at this since it's derailing now, https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Fascist+regime and https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/fascism

You do realize two sentences on a dictionary don't overrule complex and well documented historical events? They simply report how a word is generally used in conversation. If you look up the dictionary definition for "transistor" you won't get the mathematical model of a CMOS.

[realpetertdm]

On 6/19/2019 at 8:54 PM, Bouzoo said:

Imagine if we could have a game without political stances, correctness and all other things.

Why should games not have political stances?

Games are works of art. Creators can put in whatever message they desire.

[ravenshrike]

17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Either way, this isn's Anita and Anita has been retired for a while if I'm not mistaken. 

She tweeted CDPR about being a "consultant" in as blatant an attempt at graft as anything Avenatti has done.

[Lathlaer]

26 minutes ago, Sauron said:

"non-canon aspects that aren't great" is just as biased of a sentence as "anime is bad". The author doesn't like it and therefore says it's bad.

But there is a vested interest in having a fan of a genre review something from that genre.

 

If a game is catered towards anime fans there is little point in giving it to anime hater for review because he doesn't represent the target audience for the game.

 

If I am a fan of Baldur's Gate style of RPG, I want another enthusiast to review games like Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin or future BG3 so I don't have to hear that the isometric graphics sucks or that there is too much text compared to Dragon Age or smth. I want to hear about pros and cons within specific set of criteria that define the genre, not which aspects of the genre itself suck or not.

[Bouzoo]

18 minutes ago, realpetertdm said:

Why should games not have political stances?

Games are works of art. Creators can put in whatever message they desire.

That was aimed at people making the game a political mess.

[Sauron]

6 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

But there is a vested interest in having a fan of a genre review something from that genre.

 

If a game is catered towards anime fans there is little point in giving it to anime hater for review because he doesn't represent the target audience for the game.

 

If I am a fan of Baldur's Gate style of RPG, I want another enthusiast to review games like Pillars of Eternity, Divinity Original Sin or future BG3 so I don't have to hear that the isometric graphics sucks or that there is too much text compared to Dragon Age or smth. I want to hear about pros and cons within specific set of criteria that define the genre, not which aspects of the genre itself suck or not.

I think the opinion of an outsider is also valuable - after all, if he had praised the game perhaps people who don't generally like anime may have given it a second thought.

[realpetertdm]

1 minute ago, Bouzoo said:

That was aimed at people making the game a political mess.

Oh, okay.

[Lathlaer]

10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I think the opinion of an outsider is also valuable - after all, if he had praised the game perhaps people who don't generally like anime may have given it a second thought.

If it's positive, sure. If it's negative because of it, it brings literally nothing to the table.

 

It's like saying "I am not a fan of anime but Howl's Moving Castle is just so good you have to see it" vs. saying "I am not a fan of anime and this anime sucks".  

[CarlBar]

@Delicieuxz Normally i'm ok with making the kind of intuitive leap you just made, (to a degree anyway). But Cyberpunk isn't a normal example. It's a game where failing to mention or talk about transhumanism is an automatic warning flag that the person doing the talking hasn't done the slightest research on the game before opening their mouth. You can't  have an honest and meaningful talk about the game without talking about transhumanism. Given that any attempt to claim the author is soapboxing on a personal beef needs more evidence than that. it needs something that would not be there if the author didn't have the transgender related background.

 

And there is no such thing anywhere in the article.

 

So once again your making **** up to justify your agenda. Your in fact doing exactly what your accusing the author of.

[Bouzoo]

I didn't have time to properly respond. Anywho...

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

I don't understand how claiming you said things you didn't say when I have a direct quote showing otherwise benefits your position but hey, to each their own.

Just to be on the same page, since we obviously aren't. I was not talking about the author of the game, or the devs not making it policital, I was talking about the media, the RPS author and everyone else making a political mess out of it.

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

Guess what, that's a political stance - and you don't like it when someone says that the thing you don't care about matters or, in other words, disagrees with your political stance.

I find this funny because by that logic, you can not have a no-political statement. Some people just have their opinion, it's others who decide if it's a political statement I suppose. Well it's not my problem if someone thinks everything is about politics. It's not.

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

Ok, if you insist that the only logical meaning behind what you said isn't what you meant I have to assume you meant it literally, in which case you clearly don't understand games, art or politics.

You lost me there chief, and I do mean that.

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

Uhm read again, I didn't say you cried about devs changing anything.

Where in this did you read the word "change"? It's pretty funny considering you've insisted so adamantly that I was putting words in your mouth.

I think I might have misread this one on what you meant, I won't lie, and I apologise for that. I think I did...?

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

I'm trying to get you to understand that it's not your disagreement with RDP I have a problem with, it's the ignorant nonsense you threw in alongside it.

You are free to disagree with whatever you want and call it whatever you want for that matter. I do feel the same for most of your replies so it's a two-way street. And based on a lot of replies in our previous thread (I have not followed this one except your responses), I could go on how I am not the only one who thinks that. But then again it would be meaningless if all of us thought the same, no?

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

Your first comment was nonsensical (since we have established you meant it literally with absolutely no nuance) and the second one added fuel to the dumpster fire.

Just to be clear, read the response to the first quote.

 

23 hours ago, Sauron said:

What are you even talking about? In that last part I didn't say you said anything. Are you hallucinating?

And for the "I don't know which time" here, just to be on the same page, by:

Quote

You'll notice that I didn't reply to anyone to tell them the journalist is right, I only replied to people who took that position and from it jumped to absurd conclusions.

Do you mean that I took their position? From the author? Because at re-reading your replies, I am not sure what you meant anymore and by your replies about me understanding art I think you misinterpreted my initial response, I did not caught that and then it all went downhill.

 

Tl;dr

We have 2 options. You understanding my comment being about:

1) This game should have no political orientation

2) How about not having political correctness around 1 game for media to make a mess about something politics, not going around the in-game politics. Let the devs do devs do what they want.

 

If you think the answer is 1, it's not. The answer is 2. That's what I'm talking about. Which is how most people understood it. I'm, not sure if you did.

 

This multi quote format is hurting my brain.