The 15-inch MacBook Pro Gets 8 Cores! Apple Refreshes the MacBook Pro Lineup to Include 8-Core Intel Parts

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

Uh, I was really hoping for a redesign of the Macbook pro. It seems like this is just a refresh.

 

They seriously need to redesign the whole thing from the ground up to have better thermal performance, and resolve the design issues with the keyboard once and for all.

 

At this rate, my next laptop will definitely NOT be a Macbook. Still happy with my Macbook pro retina from 2013 at the moment. I don't think I would buy the current model.

I'm pretty sure a redesign is in development (there have been rumors about it), but it's just not ready yet.

 

I look at it this way: this update is good news after years of Apple letting Mac hardware languish (although it could still really stand to update the entry 13-inch MBP).  It's actually interested in keeping the hardware reasonably current.  So long as the thermals aren't too bad here, this is an important upgrade.

[maartendc]

42 minutes ago, Commodus said:

I'm pretty sure a redesign is in development (there have been rumors about it), but it's just not ready yet.

 

I look at it this way: this update is good news after years of Apple letting Mac hardware languish (although it could still really stand to update the entry 13-inch MBP).  It's actually interested in keeping the hardware reasonably current.  So long as the thermals aren't too bad here, this is an important upgrade. 

I guess that is true.. but still. This model with touch bar has been out since 2016 now (which is an eternity in computing terms), and with the ever more powerful and multicore CPU's, it badly needs a (thermal) redesign. This is now the fourth iteration of this design. Too long!

 

The model has been plagued by design issues since the beginning, they should have started working on a redesign as soon as the 2016 model was released.

 

I wish they would focus on just making a solid, fast and cool running machine, instead of adding gimmicks like a touch bar, that just introduces one more point of failure, is actually a step backwards when compared to physical F-keys, and jacks up the cost of production needlessly. Or trying to "reinvent" the keyboard. Sigh....

[justpoet]

Well, nice to see them update to the newer i9 from the older one they'd already put in.  Easy change that makes sense, since it wasn't like intel had chips to buy in bulk for savings previously anyway, which could've had a backlog of parts to finish using.

 

44 minutes ago, maartendc said:

I wish they would focus on just making a solid, fast and cool running machine, instead of adding gimmicks like a touch bar, that just introduces one more point of failure, is actually a step backwards when compared to physical F-keys, and jacks up the cost of production needlessly. Or trying to "reinvent" the keyboard. Sigh....

 

I'm with you.  However, I do want to point out that there are actually a bunch of really cool and useful things using the touch bar these days.  Not only is it cool for things like amateur editing (scrubbing, context sensitive tool bars, etc), unlike those that are shortcut kings in their software of choice, but it is also useful for the n00bs rather than them thinking about function or alternative keys, and of course for other things like notifications so they don't get in the way of other things with overlays.  Then there's third party products that serve additional use cases the touch bar can do, like the elgato stream deck.

 

While you and I don't care to have a touch bar, and would rather have physical keys, that doesn't mean it is just a gimmick, even if the majority of users won't do much with either it or physical f-keys.

 

 

rant/

 

What I really want is something none of the manufacturers will ever do again though, as it would only make them money once in a while (especially considering the high price this would require)...an actual PRO laptop.  Solid construction (ruggedization like the original iBook or the old ToughBook lines would be welcome), a multi-use bay that can have either a m.2 raid or spinning disk or optical writer or extra battery (making this portion swapable, even if not the full capacity) or multi card reader inserted, the full array of ports (ethernet, USB A, USB C, thunderbolt, HDMI, display port, audio, and a bonus for something like eSATA and Firewire…screw dongles and adapters).  With including those, it would be thick enough to properly cool a good CPU and graphics chip too.  Have a "battery conservation" mode that cuts clocks and core count aggressively to get semi-acceptable life (perhaps also integrated GPU only at that point as well, if the chip has one), a normal mode with everything on but doing the usual power management dance to allow for battery use and charging, and also a "full power" mode that will suck as much juice as it wants out of the wall, only while plugged in (drops back to "normal" while charging or on battery), so multiple power bricks aren't needed, even if the brick needs multiple USB-C plugs taking multiple ports on the laptop to push enough power into it (or just use an actual power port…what a novel concept).  Bonus if it is a 4k display in a similar size to the old 17", but with a larger display thanks to thinner bezels, so 4k wouldn't be completely wasted (also makes 2k and 1080p easy via pixel doubling, so they don't look like utter crap on an LCD).

 

So, yeah.  Pipe dreams.  But, that's what I want, rather than something ultra portable.  My laptop spends 90% of its life in clamshell mode anyway (closed, just running my external display and the like).  But, since that product doesn't exist, I'll probably just use my current laptop until it doesn't run, and eventually build up a workstation, then get pissed off that I don't have the right files in the right places when I want to get down to work.  LOL

 

/rant

 

[DrMacintosh]

Just for clarification, the new Core i9 MacBooks power manage themselves so that the CPU maintains its base clocks or can even turbo and does not thermal throttle. 

 

[CarlBar]

14 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Just for clarification, the new Core i9 MacBooks power manage themselves so that the CPU maintains its base clocks or can even turbo and does not thermal throttle. 

 

 

Haven't had chance to watch the video but my response can be summed up as "yeah right". It doesn't matter how well you manage the power profiles if you couldn't get full performance out of the 6 core you won't out of the 8 core ethier. You'll probably get better performance with an 8 core than a 6 core if you manage things right, but you won't get the full 8 core performance.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, CarlBar said:

if you couldn't get full performance out of the 6 core you won't out of the 8 core ethier.

But the new 15” MacBooks do. They run at their rated clock speed and even turbo a little bit. Not hitting your max turbo is not thermal throttling. 

[CarlBar]

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

But the new 15” MacBooks do. They run at their rated clock speed and even turbo a little bit. Not hitting your max turbo is not thermal throttling. 

 

Actually it can be.Though i suspect it's actually power throttling rather than thermal throttling.

 

Look unless they redesigned the cooler it will thermal throttle unless the power limits are set harsh enough to power throttle it. Thats just physics. Anyone claiming otherwise is outright lying to you, period.

 

What apple could do however is take advantage of how power consumption spikes exponentially with frequency to power limit the clocks down enough that it doesn't use as much power per core and they'll lose less performance per core from doing that than they will power use per core, so with 2 extra cores you can get a performance uptick whilst not using any more power than a thermally throttled 6 core.

 

But the chip is still throttling either way, just because of power limits instead of thermals.

[DrMacintosh]

6 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

But the chip is still throttling either way

If the chip is hitting its base clocks.....it's not thermal throttling. That's all I'm saying. 

[CarlBar]

42 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

If the chip is hitting its base clocks.....it's not thermal throttling. That's all I'm saying. 

 

Sure but if it's power throttling instead it's just as bad. Thermal throttling doesn't necessarily cut the clocks below base ethier. Thermal throttling is bad because it means your not getting the full clock speed the chip can provide, not because thermal throttling is bad because it's thermal throttling. The same is true with power throttling. To be fair apple have probably managed to get less extreme throttling if they set the power limits right as thermal throttling tends to downclock more aggressively than power throttling, the latter simply limits it to whatever clock speed the power limit allows, whereas thermal tends to want the limit down more than is absolutely required for thermals.But either way the end effect, (not getting the full performance the chip is capable of), is still present.

 

So sure it might not thermal throttle or drop below base clocks, but that doesn't mean the same basic issue does not exist. Apple have just changed the cause of the issue in an attempt to get good PR. In effect they've suppressed a symptom but not actually done anything about the disease.

[Hunter259]

[Drak3]

10 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

Thermal throttling doesn't necessarily cut the clocks below base ethier

Yes, it does. Thermal throttling is the term for reducing clocks below base to preserve the chip.

[mr moose]

41 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yes, it does. Thermal throttling is the term for reducing clocks below base to preserve the chip.

It used to mean any reduction in clock due to thermals.    But due to new CPUs having dynamic frequencies above base and the fact so many products have different cooling solutions (and qualities thereof) the concept became  too ambiguous for many people so they created more precise definitions.

 

As far as I know Intel defines thermal throttling as simply holding back the clock speed of the processor to prevent overheating.

 

 

EDIT: I'd actually be interested to know where the whole "below base" thing came from.

 

[saltycaramel]

So I’m watching the WAN, let me get this straight, LTT still haven’t received their MBP and Linus is already performing logic gymnastics to imply it throttles?

And he said Apple advertises only max clock?

 

Gotta keep those views coming uh...

[CarlBar]

15 hours ago, mr moose said:

It used to mean any reduction in clock due to thermals.    But due to new CPUs having dynamic frequencies above base and the fact so many products have different cooling solutions (and qualities thereof) the concept became  too ambiguous for many people so they created more precise definitions.

 

As far as I know Intel defines thermal throttling as simply holding back the clock speed of the processor to prevent overheating.

 

 

EDIT: I'd actually be interested to know where the whole "below base" thing came from.

 

 

 

This.

[Zodiark1593]

18 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

Sure but if it's power throttling instead it's just as bad. Thermal throttling doesn't necessarily cut the clocks below base ethier. Thermal throttling is bad because it means your not getting the full clock speed the chip can provide, not because thermal throttling is bad because it's thermal throttling. The same is true with power throttling. To be fair apple have probably managed to get less extreme throttling if they set the power limits right as thermal throttling tends to downclock more aggressively than power throttling, the latter simply limits it to whatever clock speed the power limit allows, whereas thermal tends to want the limit down more than is absolutely required for thermals.But either way the end effect, (not getting the full performance the chip is capable of), is still present.

 

So sure it might not thermal throttle or drop below base clocks, but that doesn't mean the same basic issue does not exist. Apple have just changed the cause of the issue in an attempt to get good PR. In effect they've suppressed a symptom but not actually done anything about the disease.

Cpu throttling as a main means of regulating temperature (rather than in response to actually overheating) has come into widespread use in recent years. Devices with limited cooling capabilities, such as smartphones, and laptops will reduce clocks to keep temperature from rising too rapidly. Keeping the cpu from reaching deeply into Turbo would certainly count.

 

Power throttling occurs when the board isn't able to supply enough peak power to the cpu (whether due to poor board design, psu, or some other factor). Typically, it is only overclockers that regularly contend with power limits (that high clocked Piledriver cpu also was perilous to run on underspecced boards), though some very high end gaming laptops require being plugged in to use their video cards at full speed. Interestingly, certain iPhone models do power throttle to prevent shutdowns from the aging battery.

[BigDamn]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:13 AM, Drak3 said:

At this point, it's just trolling. I've linked a tear down that shows every usable bit of space not used for logic or heat sink being used for batteries.

So you've repeatedly informed us on why the MBA can't sport a quad core. What you haven't addressed is why other manufacturers can do so with ease in a similar form factor.

 

Why is the big, strong, COURAGEOUS Apple so afraid to give the option for a quad core? Oh right, you can advertise the top end model as "THE BEST MAC BOOK AIR YET" to lure uneducated Apple fangirls in and make a killing selling them a $1200 dual core paper weight.

[xtroria]

So most likely apple would be releasing their re-designed laptop this year, given that it would be 4 years by then.

 

As much as i love my 2018 MBP, i do hope that they go back to the old switch or simply make the new butterfly switch with more travel. 1080P webcam upgrade and putting the face ID sensor would also be nice, though they'll probably ditch the touch ID sensor, but it does make sense to ditch it on macbook

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, xtroria said:

So most likely apple would be releasing their re-designed laptop this year, given that it would be 4 years by then.

 

As much as i love my 2018 MBP, i do hope that they go back to the old switch or simply make the new butterfly switch with more travel. 1080P webcam upgrade and putting the face ID sensor would also be nice, though they'll probably ditch the touch ID sensor, but it does make sense to ditch it on macbook

 

Before this 4th butterfly keyboard (actually Dave Lee on youtube said this would be the 5th if we count every little modification since 2015), I would have bet the all new 16” (?) oled (?) MBP 2020 would have a completely re-thought from scratch keyboard.

 

Now...I don’t actually know...let’s see if this one is issues-free...they look determined to fix this design so I now wouldn’t necessarily bet on the redesigned MBP sporting a different design..

 

Unless they go for the backlash prevention reasoning...also, the redesigned MBP was probably finalized at peak keyboard-gate last year...

[Bouzoo]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:18 AM, DrMacintosh said:

Just for clarification, the new Core i9 MacBooks power manage themselves so that the CPU maintains its base clocks or can even turbo and does not thermal throttle. 

I am pretty underwhelmed at the total boost. It's cooling is so subpar it boosts an i9 9980HK to 2.8 GHz on all cores and is usually at 87C. And we are calling that a win. It's not. With proper cooling (obviously maybe few full fat laptops have that) it can go 9900K performance. It can go, what, 4.3 on all cores? I don't care how the competition performs, Apple needs to redesign their MB line. No one is expecting 5 GHz OC ULTRA BOOST, but come one, fix the cooling and/or redesign the chassis. It's a 4K device. I am not talking about the resolution. 

I can't wait for notebookcheck to do an in depth analysis and see what's what. I am afraid AIDA 64 FPU test might legitimately melt it even with the power limitation. 

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

And we are calling that a win. It's not

For the Core i9 MacBook, that is a win. Especially when compared to the first iteration of the Core i9 MacBook. 

 

Plenty of other machines redline like this. 

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

For the Core i9 MacBook, that is a win. Especially when compared to the first iteration of the Core i9 MacBook. 

 

Plenty of other machines redline like this. 

Being better than the worst is not saying much. 

[DrMacintosh]

10 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Being better than the worst is not saying much. 

But it’s an improvement. But people are never satisfied. Even if they did make a MacBook that could hit its max all core boost, there would still be complaints about it. 

[Bouzoo]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

But it’s an improvement. But people are never satisfied. Even if they did make a MacBook that could hit its max all core boost, there would still be complaints about it. 

No one reasonable is asking for that. If they cut down 50+% of multithreaded performance and charge $4k people should absolutely complain. No one should defend it because "my beloved brand". Improvement? Yes. Still not good enough? Absolutely. 

[jagdtigger]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:49 AM, DrMacintosh said:

If the chip is hitting its base clocks.....it's not thermal throttling. That's all I'm saying. 

Because its running "red hot"(>90C°) which is a sign of a inadequate cooling solution...  At this point in time its best to avoid apple laptops because of the retarded "design over function" approach. Not to mention at a similar price you can get a business laptop that is going to eat apple's junk for dinner.

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Because its running "red hot"(>90C°) which is a sign of a inadequate cooling solution...  At this point in time its best to avoid apple laptops because of the retarded "design over function" approach. Not to mention at a similar price you can get a business laptop that is going to eat apple's junk for dinner.

I don't mind a thin-and-light mobile workstation -- I just think Apple needs to use more aggressive cooling (or at least, more efficient chips) and modify its keyboard design.  We need systems like this, if just as the antithesis to the abundance of chunky Windows workstations.