The 2018 Butterfly Keyboards still have a problem

[DrMacintosh]

In mid 2018 Apple released the 2018 line of MacBook Pros. These Macs featured spec upgrades including Vega graphics and the option to go up to 32GB of RAM. These Macs were also upgraded with another version of Apples infamous Butterfly Keyboard. This version of the keyboard featured a silicon membrane that both made the keys less noisy, but were also speculated to have some level of ingress protection against dust/dirt/hair/etc. 

 

This membrane was added after overwhelming evidence that the 2016/17 iterations of the butterfly keyboard were unreliable. Some users reporting of "keys that stick" or repeated key presses when only one key press was made. Apple had hopped that the new generation of keyboard would resolve these issues (though they never acknowledged them publicly and claimed that the new membrane was to dampen the sound of the keys), but a new video from Unbox Therapy seems to have cast that hope out of the window. 

 

 

In the video you can see that his issue is the "e" key, only the most common letter in the English language. Seemingly at random the key will present more than character per keypress.

 

(Speculation) 

This happens when "something" gets under the key switch and gets in-between the metal dome of the switch and the board that tells the computer that a key has been pressed. The only way to fix this is to "smash" that "something" out of the switch or to completely replace keyboard and top case. 

(Speculation ends)

 

Previously users could get this repair for free with 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros with seemingly no limit on the number of replacements you could get. However those programs just swap the keyboard for the same faulty design. 2018 MacBook owners are not currently covered by any outstanding repair program. Users suffering from this issue are however covered under the Manufacture 1 year warranty because of how new these Macs are. 

 

We are likely to see Apple expand the keyboard replacement program in the future once the 1 year warranties on these machines run out, but that still sucks for the end user because having to ship out the machine that you potentially depend on is not really convenient. The solution is not free replacement programs, the solution is a keyboard design that doesn't blow...

 

Personally I love the way the new keys feel, but I'm not trilled on their reliability. 

 

Source: https://youtu.be/4QDsqWkUvXQ

 

 

[bcredeur97]

they should really stop trying to save every 0.1mm of thickness and compromising reliability and repairability because of it

 

... not that they care

 

this goes for some other companies too... not just apple

[TempestCatto]

If it's the only thing Apple I liked, it was their keyboards. I hate mechanical keys, I just damn do. But their keys used to feel great, having said that I recently worked on a Macbook Pro that was purchased in late 2017 (don't know what model it actually is, or when it was released) but they keys made me want to break the thing over my leg. I couldn't stand typing on it, it was like I wasn't typing at all, yet I was. It was so conflicting feeling. It's weird how you can fuck up something so simple. My speculation on the issue posted however, is likely that the membrane sticks to itself, causing repeated key presses. And perhaps it can stretch a bit over time and cause the key to not be fully pressed down either.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Just now, TempestCatto said:

If it's the only thing Apple I liked, it was their keyboards. I hate mechanical keys, I just damn do. But their keys used to feel great, having said that I recently worked on a Macbook Pro that was purchased in late 2017 (don't know what model it actually is, or when it was released) but they keys made me want to break the thing over my leg. I couldn't stand typing on it, it was like I wasn't typing at all, yet I was. It was so conflicting feeling. It's weird how you can fuck up something so simple. My speculation on the issue posted however, is likely that the membrane sticks to itself, causing repeated key presses. And perhaps it can stretch a bit over time and cause the key to not be fully pressed down either.

I have some experience using these keyboards and as long as they don't have any dust I prefer the butterfly switches to Apple's older ones. They definitely have more tactile feedback, or at least it feels like they do. They definitely are more like mechanical keyboards Than the previous ones and I think that is what they were aiming at.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

If it's the only thing Apple I liked, it was their keyboards. I hate mechanical keys, I just damn do. But their keys used to feel great, having said that I recently worked on a Macbook Pro that was purchased in late 2017 (don't know what model it actually is, or when it was released) but they keys made me want to break the thing over my leg. I couldn't stand typing on it, it was like I wasn't typing at all, yet I was. It was so conflicting feeling. It's weird how you can fuck up something so simple. My speculation on the issue posted however, is likely that the membrane sticks to itself, causing repeated key presses. And perhaps it can stretch a bit over time and cause the key to not be fully pressed down either.

It's not that simple.

 

I actually really like the feel of the butterfly switch.

[Ashleyyyy]

like i said before i hate those keyboards and i wish Apple never did away with the old one's... 

[Nowak]

So you mean to tell me the Butterfly switch is bad? Gee, who could have guessed that a switch designed for thinness rather than functionality could be bad?

[Bouzoo]

16 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

they should really stop trying to save every 0.1mm of thickness and compromising reliability and repairability because of it

 

... not that they care

 

this goes for some other companies too... not just apple

It's the mentality associated especially with ultrabooks. 

[Ashleyyyy]

14 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

I actually really like the feel of the butterfly switch.

why? they bottom out so fast.

[Yeroh]

I'd hoped that the added membrane would render these kinds of problems obsolete with the 2018 and newer machines, but I guess we're back to square one.

 

Contrary to what many others seem to think about these new machines, I like the design, thinness and even the keyboard quite a bit. The questionable reliability does make me question my purchasing decision however. Between the display cable issue and this, it seems like it's more of a question of which problem you're going to run into first rather than if you're going to have any at all.

 

A bummer, really, especially considering the prices Apple is asking for reasonably spec'd ones. I suppose I'll keep mine for now, but if it fails prematurely, I'll be done with Apple Computers for a while.

[79wjd]

17 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

why? they bottom out so fast.

That might not be your preference, but that's not a bad thing. 

[Bouzoo]

18 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

why? they bottom out so fast.

It's very subjective. I don't like them, my gf adores them. It's the feel. Same with mech and membranes. 

[BuckGup]

There’s no reason to use them. I have a Hauwei Matebook X Pro and not only is it the same thickness it’s keyboard is waterproof and isn’t plagued by a spec of dust problems

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, BuckGup said:

I have a Hauwei Matebook X Pro and not only is it the same thickness it’s keyboard is waterproof and isn’t plagued by a spec of dust problems

Its also got a red phone to China

[Drak3]

41 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

they bottom out so fast

They're practically bottomed out at the top of travel.

 

It's like typing on a touchscreen.

[TempestCatto]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

They're practically bottomed out at the top of travel.

 

It's like typing on a touchscreen.

That's why it feels like I'm not even typing. I can't have that nonsense, I need to feel keys move under me.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

They're practically bottomed out at the top of travel.

 

It's like typing on a touchscreen.

What kind of fingers do you have? Typical handy man hands or fingers more suited for playing the piano?

 

I have heard many people say that typing on a 2018 keyboard is like typing on a touchscreen and I have to ask.....have you ever typed on a touchscreen before? because they feel nothing similar. 

[TempestCatto]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

What kind of fingers do you have? Typical handy man hands or fingers more suited for playing the piano?

 

I have heard many people say that typing on a 2018 keyboard is like typing on a touchscreen and I have to ask.....have you ever typed on a touchscreen before? because they feel nothing similar. 

I myself have more "handy man hands" and I own a Samsung tablet and an iTouch 4th gen, so I type on at least one touchscreen daily. When typing on the Apple keyboard, it feels like I'm slamming my fingers on a screen to get the letters to work, if that makes sense. Also most trackpads (mainly Apple ones) hate my fingers too, I can't even use them, they hardly register for me. 

[Drak3]

12 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

have heard many people say that typing on a 2018 keyboard is like typing on a touchscreen and I have to ask.....have you ever typed on a touchscreen before?

Yes. Many times. I've done direct comparisons between my Surface Pro 4, Note 10.1 2014 (rip), and MBP 2017. It's the same experience as tocuscreen.

 

Now, you've made the claim that it's similar to a mech keyboard. Have you ever typed on one of those for more than a minute before?

[bob345]

If there has been one thing that apple has gotten really good at lately, it would be massive engineering oversights.

[TempestCatto]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. Many times. I've done direct comparisons between my Surface Pro 4, Note 10.1 2014 (rip), and MBP 2017. It's the same experience as tocuscreen.

 

Now, you've made the claim that it's similar to a mech keyboard. Have you ever typed on one of those for more than a minute before?

I've typed on a mech keyboard, it's how I know I don't prefer it. That said, the fact that people make that claim makes me think they were typing on a membrane mechanical keyboard instead. I don't think Apple has ever had a keyboard that's felt "mechanical" at least in my opinion. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, TempestCatto said:

I've typed on a mech keyboard

What type of switch?

[DrMacintosh]

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Have you ever typed on one of those for more than a minute before?

I own and use my Logitech G610 Orion with brown switches every day. 

[TempestCatto]

Just now, Drak3 said:

What type of switch?

Cherry MX Red, Brown, and Blue switches. I think there were some non Cherry ones too, I don't remember though. It was quite a few years back now. But I was hunting for the right keyboard, and thankfully had plenty of people in my votech I could borrow from to take for a test drive.

[Hunter259]

The worst keyboard to be put in a high end laptop in the last 10 years dies by dust. Just brilliant Apple. Grade A.