Titan XP price might be justified

[App4that]

10 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Paul's gripe seemed to be SLI scaling. So let's look at what his results actually were:

 

Metro Last Light: 24%

Crysis 3: 72%

GTA V: 84%

Rise of the Tomb Raider (Dx11 only): 55%

 

So there weren't any negatives, he just didn't think the percentage increase each time justified the price of the second card. None of the games he tested lost performance, and none of them stayed the same. RotTR has since had a massive patch enabling Dx12 multi GPU, and even Metro Last Light's performance increase was enough to put it to around 60 fps, rather than the 40 it was at prior.

 

Edit: The second video wasn't even negative. In Dx12 scaling is decent. It's 58% at 1080p and 78% at 4K (eg, the more GPU bound scenario). It outperformed the 1080 in both cases. What negative points are you getting from this?

The major negative is waiting for SLI support. Look at Doom. The reason I really liked the switch from Radeon to Nvidia is not having to wait for support. In the second video he talks about how SLI support will be much harder to code with newer games, that mean more time between launch and support along with less favorable scaling. But then you look at the price, the price is above the single card solution. So you're spending more to gamble on support. Not having to research a game is awesome. Just throw it in and play. To give that up it needs to offer support in the games I play which are Doom, FarCry Primal, and the one that causes the most issue MechWarrior Online. Currently the only game I have performance issues is MWO, and SLI would do nothing for me. But the move to a 1080 might. The Titan XP definitely would.

[othertomperson]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

The major negative is waiting for SLI support. Look at Doom. The reason I really liked the switch from Radeon to Nvidia is not having to wait for support. In the second video he talks about how SLI support will be much harder to code with newer games, that mean more time between launch and support along with less favorable scaling. But then you look at the price, the price is above the single card solution. So you're spending more to gamble on support. Not having to research a game is awesome. Just throw it in and play. To give that up it needs to offer support in the games I play which are Doom, FarCry Primal, and the one that causes the most issue MechWarrior Online. Currently the only game I have performance issues is MWO, and SLI would do nothing for me. But the move to a 1080 might. The Titan XP definitely would.

All Dx12 features are "much harder to code". At the moment it looks like scaling is more favourable than with Dx11, but until we have more you can't really assert that either way. If AMD are sensible they'll push for multi GPU to take over so they don't have to waste money on big dies (same for Nvidia, there's a reason the Titan XP is a cut down GPU and they don't want to release the full part). It's in AMD's interest in particular to be able to put two 480s on a card and call it a 490 in future.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Without ECC or double precision it wouldn't be a bargain vs a 1080ti even for those kinds of applications (if you don't need those features for workstation work, the 1080ti would perform as good. If you do then you need to spend a lot more on a quadro anyway) There's no reason for the Titan cards to exist without them being an in between gaming and workstation card and ever since they dropped double precision and ECC they're just not special at all vs a 1080ti

Maxwell Quadros didn't have FP64 (Double Precision), and all of the Titans before the Nvidia Titan X (Pascal. I am also going by Nvidia's book because I know the difference between the last Titan X and the latest one) did not have ECC memory because for that targeted market, it's not needed whatsoever and to me, it makes sense.

[App4that]

2 hours ago, othertomperson said:

All Dx12 features are "much harder to code". At the moment it looks like scaling is more favourable than with Dx11, but until we have more you can't really assert that either way. If AMD are sensible they'll push for multi GPU to take over so they don't have to waste money on big dies (same for Nvidia, there's a reason the Titan XP is a cut down GPU and they don't want to release the full part). It's in AMD's interest in particular to be able to put two 480s on a card and call it a 490 in future.

Yeah that's not going to happen. Everyone is in love with the possibility that is "2(480)=1080" but the reality is that one is always better than two.

 

 

1 hour ago, JurunceNK said:

Maxwell Quadros didn't have FP64 (Double Precision), and all of the Titans before the Nvidia Titan X (Pascal. I am also going by Nvidia's book because I know the difference between the last Titan X and the latest one) did not have ECC memory because for that targeted market, it's not needed whatsoever and to me, it makes sense.

Yeah not needed. The major draw to the Titan XP is it's amazing power for the money. That's contingent on Nvidia's promise of the performance being accurate. We'll find out in a few days.

[othertomperson]

16 minutes ago, App4that said:

Yeah that's not going to happen. Everyone is in love with the possibility that is "2(480)=1080" but the reality is that one is always better than two.

lmao AMD are not going to put a tonne of resources in cutting their R&D budget, putting the onus on game devs rather than themselves and simultaneously fuck Nvidia over because you say it's not going to happen? They have the monopoly on consoles and Nvidia have no intention of changing this. If AMD decide that the next gen consoles are going to be built around Crossfire/multi adaptor because it's cheaper than putting Furies in them, then oh shit not much can stop them.

 

And it shouldn't worry Nvidia either tbh. If this means that buying multiple Titans means arbitrarily high resolutions and/or framerates across all Dx12/Vulkan games because AMD made multi-GPU matter then I'm all for it.

 

And I'm not even going to bother watching that video tbh. It's obvious that you don't have a source from five years into the future demonstrating this not to have happened.

[App4that]

2 hours ago, othertomperson said:

lmao AMD are not going to put a tonne of resources in cutting their R&D budget, putting the onus on game devs rather than themselves and simultaneously fuck Nvidia over because you say it's not going to happen? They have the monopoly on consoles and Nvidia have no intention of changing this. If AMD decide that the next gen consoles are going to be built around Crossfire/multi adaptor because it's cheaper than putting Furies in them, then oh shit not much can stop them.

 

And it shouldn't worry Nvidia either tbh. If this means that buying multiple Titans means arbitrarily high resolutions and/or framerates across all Dx12/Vulkan games because AMD made multi-GPU matter then I'm all for it.

 

And I'm not even going to bother watching that video tbh. It's obvious that you don't have a source from five years into the future demonstrating this not to have happened.

Nvidia has the Nintendo NX, though that's just a glorified Shield Console so not sure if that's going to count. Time will tell I guess.

 

Well, spent some serious time considering everything you said. If I cut corners I could get two EVGA SC 1080s and have 1300us invested. That's contingent on them coming with a flex bridge I can double up until a later date. IMO that's the best option for 1080 SLI, the reference PCB would allow for upgrading to water blocks down the road. You made some valid points so I'm bookmarking that as an option. Will come down to the Titan XP's performance once the benchmarks come rolling in.

[alphaproject]

Nvidia has confirmed that the Pascal GTX Titan X will not feature increased FP64 and FP16 rates over GP104, making the Titan X an Ultra-powerful Gaming GPU and nothing more. While the Pascal GTX Titan X will offer best in class gaming performance when it launches, it will still come in at an eye-watering price of $1200 and leave the budget FP64 compute crowd without the "old style" Titan of their dreams. 

 

So.... you were simply wrong about comparing the new Titan pee pee to the Quattro cards.

 

As far as buying it.... you are buying a glorified expensive gaming card, no more, no less. Just enjoy it, but know you're not getting a bargain Quattro.

[App4that]

53 minutes ago, alphaproject said:

Nvidia has confirmed that the Pascal GTX Titan X will not feature increased FP64 and FP16 rates over GP104, making the Titan X an Ultra-powerful Gaming GPU and nothing more. While the Pascal GTX Titan X will offer best in class gaming performance when it launches, it will still come in at an eye-watering price of $1200 and leave the budget FP64 compute crowd without the "old style" Titan of their dreams. 

 

So.... you were simply wrong about comparing the new Titan pee pee to the Quattro cards.

 

As far as buying it.... you are buying a glorified expensive gaming card, no more, no less. Just enjoy it, but know you're not getting a bargain Quattro.

I think you missed the article I posted in your rush to respond to the title. It's over twice the compute card of the Titan X it replaces.

[alphaproject]

No, I saw it. I just read that Nvidia confirmed some facts about it... that was all.  It's not going to prevent people from buying it... just stating facts.

 

For me if it doesn't enhance video processing using all those CUDA cores.... I don't see why it's so much money. I'd like to see some adobe premier or Vegas rendering times as well using the new 1000 line of cards.

[SteveGrabowski0]

Has SLI support greatly improved in the last month? Because the techpowerup review of Strix 1080 SLI painted a really bleak picture for SLI scaling even at 4k with recent games. For all the games in the techpowerup testsuite released for the Christmas 2015 season or later the scaling at 4k with the HB bridge was:

 

Anno 2205: -3%

AC Syndicate: +74%

COD Black Ops 3: +97%

Fallout 4: +42%

Far Cry Primal: +77%

Hitman (DX11): +53%

Just Cause 3: -6%

Rainbow Six Siege: -13%

Rise of the Tomb Raider (DX12): -11%

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080_SLI/

[i_build_nanosuits]

12 hours ago, App4that said:

Everyone attacked the Titan XP pricing but early benchmarks seem to point to it being a bargain.

 

http://videocardz.com/62723/first-synthetic-benchmarks-of-geforce-gtx-titan-x-pascal-hit-the-web

Bear in mind that this is not strictly a typical hardware comparison, as both cards are using different, more architecture optimized cuDNN libraries (4 vs 5). That said ...

 

that said...i don't read the rest...case closed.

[App4that]

30 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Bear in mind that this is not strictly a typical hardware comparison, as both cards are using different, more architecture optimized cuDNN libraries (4 vs 5). That said ...

 

that said...i don't read the rest...case closed.

Still wets ones anticipation. Obviously we have to wait for more thorough testing.

[i_build_nanosuits]

10 minutes ago, App4that said:

Still wets ones anticipation. Obviously we have to wait for more thorough testing.

my honest opinion?

OF COURSE the titan XP will be a god damn beast of a beast...a true huge leap forward...probably something that will take at least a good 2 or 3 years for mid rande ''X70'' level graphics cards to match the performance of...and by then...nvidia will likely ask like 850$ for the GTX 1270 at the rate the prices are skyrocketing right now...so...if you have a use for it? 1200$ ain't that bad if you ask me...if you need the performance right now...then the hell with it.

[App4that]

37 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

my honest opinion?

OF COURSE the titan XP will be a god damn beast of a beast...a true huge leap forward...probably something that will take at least a good 2 or 3 years for mid rande ''X70'' level graphics cards to match the performance of...and by then...nvidia will likely ask like 850$ for the GTX 1270 at the rate the prices are skyrocketing right now...so...if you have a use for it? 1200$ ain't that bad if you ask me...if you need the performance right now...then the hell with it.

It's between the big T and 2 FTW DT 1080s. Decide in two days when we see some reviews.

[alphaproject]

Since Vega and Navi are right around the corner.... Nvidia has a lot of balls charging $1200.

 

The only way I see this card being worthy of $1200 is if the HBM2 cards aren't living up to the hype.

 

In that case we don't have anything else to look forward to for a good solid 2 years. So... in that scenario it's the best value you can buy.

[App4that]

Just now, alphaproject said:

Since Vega and Navi are right around the corner.... Nvidia has a lot of balls charging $1200.

 

The only way I see this card being worthy of $1200 is if the HBM2 cards aren't living up to the hype.

 

In that case we don't have anything else to look forward to for a good solid 2 years. So... in that scenario it's the best value you can buy.

There's always something right around the corner, I can't remember a time people weren't saying to wait  

[alphaproject]

Well... they did say wait for the 480... well... that came and went.  It's not that great.

 

GTX 1060 seems better which came out of nowhere. And it came fast.

 

The 1080 cards were pretty shallow in supply... still seem to be but I see some 1070 cards around now for their actual retail FE price.

[App4that]

15 minutes ago, alphaproject said:

Well... they did say wait for the 480... well... that came and went.  It's not that great.

 

GTX 1060 seems better which came out of nowhere. And it came fast.

 

The 1080 cards were pretty shallow in supply... still seem to be but I see some 1070 cards around now for their actual retail FE price.

I really didn't think it would be August and there not being 1080s to buy. 

[dizmo]

13 hours ago, RyGuy99 said:

Don't bother. There's no hope for this blind bat. He's just trying to justify the insane price because he can't help from praising the new Titan. I've seen it before and he'll continue to sadly do it. 

It's clearly not that insane if they don't change it. If it sells the number of units they want, then it's perfectly sane.

There are lots of people that will pay more money for more performance, and in the higher niche brackets it never scales the same.

Surprised you don't know that.

 

13 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

Well they aren't going to hire some kid at home with a Titan. The kids are most likely going to be in college with access to Tesla's, GRID cards, and quadros. Until we see actual gameplay I say it is over priced. If it was $999 then no.

Most people spending $1,000 on a video card don't care about spending an extra $200.

12 hours ago, othertomperson said:

The sane thing to do right now is wait for AMD's high end to emerge and (hopefully) force a pricing upheaval on all of these. Who knows how long you'd be waiting, however.

That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard How is waiting for something that may or may not emerge, with no ETA a sane thing to do?

[alphaproject]

We don't know yet.... If it's 20% faster than the 1080 then no it's not worth it.

 

30% faster... on all titles... I guess that depends on how many actual frames it ends up being.

 

Say in the Witcher 3 - The 1080 gets around 80 fps on 1440p.  So the Titan XP better get 20-30 more fps.  If it doesn't... what's the point? So could you expect 100-110 fps on 1440p?

 

Of course on Ultra with gameworks just because.

 

Is that enough to warrant the price?

[Djxinator]

I'm with App4that.

 

Some consumers demand the best. The Titan XP is the ONLY good buy for those consumers.

 

SLI has too many bugs and I will probably never use it again. I haven't even entertained the idea of adding an extra 980ti in to my machine to get the monstrous, GTX 1080 smashing performance I could get for only £350, because I don't really want to deal with games that have crappy or non-existent support for SLI.

 

I bought a 980ti and not a Titan this time because I knew the aftermarket cards would be faster, quieter and overclock better than the Titan, thus providing me with the best single GPU performance.

 

This time, no 1080ti in sight. We probably won't even get one. Nvidia are keeping anything like that under wraps because if people don't think the 1080ti is coming, they won't wait for it. Anyone who is in the market for a $800 GPU is also in the market for a $1200 GPU.

 

I will wait, maybe a month before I buy the Titan XP. If a 1080ti comes out after that with ~3200 Cuda Cores then thats fine. If a Titan XP HBM with 3840 Cuda cores gets released, then I'll be pissed.

[iDeFecZx]

Why is this argument even a thing rn? The card has only been announced, noone has benchmarked it yet so you dont know how it will perform in real world scenarios. Whats so hard about waiting to see its performance before saying its not worth it. Have to remember at these performance levels, even a small increase will cost a significant amount to get

[Bhav]

There's no way you can call something so expensive a bargain. Pascals are all overpriced.

[BrightCandle]

If all Titan XP ends up being is a bigger faster 1080 then its not going to be all that well received as its too expensive for the consumer market for the performance it would bring. If on the other hand it brings the 4:2:1 (FP16:FP32:FP64) like GP100 then its a reasonably priced performance compute card as well as being gaming capable, its a classic prosumer model. The benchmarks in the OP suggest but don't confirm this to be the case as cuDNN does use FP16 and that is enormously cut down on the 1080 (which is 1/128th of FP32).

 

Given that I do a lot of machine learning these days the 1080 I have on my desktop is definitely not sufficient. Most of the libraries I tend to use are FP32 based for that reason and I use AWS GPU machines to get faster results. But a Titan X might give me more than 2x that performance for that activity as well as allowing much larger neural nets as well. I can see its value if its that type of card. But if its a cut down FP16 and FP64 card and nothing like the Titan X then its just too expensive.

[GEHORC]

It doesn't matter, if it is 10, 20 or 80% faster. The price is still not justified. This is the new Titan. It should cost as much as the old Titan plus a tad for inflation.

 

If every card that brings +20% performance to the table costs 20% more, we will end up with a $2000 Titan class card by 2020.

Will the GTX1360 cost >$500 and AMDs new RX780 be $400 then? That's just bullshit.

 

Let's cheer for the new i7-9970X for $3000. Campatible motherboards with X290 Chipset starting at 600$.