Titan XP price might be justified

[App4that]

Just now, SamStrecker said:

Depends on what school you go to I guess. My sister goes to Miami and she got a WS with a 750 series SSD, Tesla, and a Quadro

Heavily depends. We have an excellent program and some of the best faculty, but our equipment is not as it could be. And what is there is shared. There's a level of secrecy that goes along with using your own equipment.

[othertomperson]

Just now, App4that said:

The support is not there.

 

 

Yet. The APIs have only just come into being, you can't expect them to be as mature as Dx11 right now. Do we even have 10 games that use either Dx12 or Vulkan yet?

 

Not to mention if you do want to use this for computation, then SLI isn't even a thing you are interested in but you are interested in CUDA cores. Dual 1080s has 5120 CUDA cores. That's around 1500 more than the Titan XP.

[App4that]

Just now, othertomperson said:

Yet. The APIs have only just come into being, you can't expect them to be as mature as Dx11 right now. Do we even have 10 games that use either Dx12 or Vulkan yet?

 

Not to mention if you do want to use this for computation, then SLI isn't even a thing you are interested in but you are interested in CUDA cores. Dual 1080s has 5120 CUDA cores. That's around 1500 more than the Titan XP.

My concern is split. And I did consider dual 1080s for that reason. But even with using flex bridges I'm over 1300us where the Titan XP is 1200us. That's a speed upgrade on my RAM. If I took that route. And if I wanted 1080s what weren't the cheapest available you climb to 1400us in a heart beat before the bridge is even considered. One of two things would have to happen to make the 1080 SLI a viable option. It would have to cost the same or cheaper, or have support in all games, not some. I even looked at going SLI with my 980ti, but I'd need a power supply and the support in games means I'd be stuck at a single 980ti more than I'd like to be at that level of investment.

 

I keep saying, I'm all ears. If someone can show something at the same level of performance as the Titan XP for the same price or lower, I'd consider it.

[DocSwag]

1 hour ago, App4that said:

It costs more, and only performs better in games that support SLI. 

 

I will ask you the same question I ask everyone trying to push your argument. 

 

Show own me a card that performs the same as a Titan XP for less.and I'll buy it. If not, then stop.

And most games support sli.

It only costs slightly more, and in return, with an aftermarket cooler, it runs a lot cooler and quieter.

[App4that]

Just now, DocSwag said:

And most games support sli.

It only costs slightly more, and in return, with an aftermarket cooler, it runs a lot cooler and quieter.

So lets pretend they are in stock. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487244&cm_re=gtx_1080-_-14-487-244-_-Product

 

2(650)=1300us. There is the Gigabyte for 630us so 1260us for SLI but I won't consider anything from Gigabyte, personal preference. And you still lose out on games that don't support SLI properly.

 

 

[xAcid9]

7 minutes ago, App4that said:

I keep saying, I'm all ears. If someone can show something at the same level of performance as the Titan XP for the same price or lower, I'd consider it.

Titan XP Black, featuring full fledge GP100 with HBM2 at $1200 $1500

 

ETA: probably a year later.

 

Sauce: Titan Black  [R.I.P | 2014-2015]

[othertomperson]

17 minutes ago, App4that said:

My concern is split. And I did consider dual 1080s for that reason. But even with using flex bridges I'm over 1300us where the Titan XP is 1200us. That's a speed upgrade on my RAM. If I took that route. And if I wanted 1080s what weren't the cheapest available you climb to 1400us in a heart beat before the bridge is even considered. One of two things would have to happen to make the 1080 SLI a viable option. It would have to cost the same or cheaper, or have support in all games, not some. I even looked at going SLI with my 980ti, but I'd need a power supply and the support in games means I'd be stuck at a single 980ti more than I'd like to be at that level of investment.

 

I keep saying, I'm all ears. If someone can show something at the same level of performance as the Titan XP for the same price or lower, I'd consider it.

The sane thing to do right now is wait for AMD's high end to emerge and (hopefully) force a pricing upheaval on all of these. Who knows how long you'd be waiting, however.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

So lets pretend they are in stock. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487244&cm_re=gtx_1080-_-14-487-244-_-Product

 

2(650)=1300us. There is the Gigabyte for 630us so 1260us for SLI but I won't consider anything from Gigabyte, personal preference. And you still lose out on games that don't support SLI properly.

 

 

I know it's slightly more expensive, but you are getting a lot more performance for that small cost increase.

 

For Hitman, the game that scaled horribly, Luke shoulda put it in dx12 and activated explicit multi adapter. Then it would have scaled quite nicely.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

Titan XP Black, featuring full fledge GP100 with HBM2 at $1200 $1500

 

ETA: probably a year later.

 

Sauce: Titan Black  [R.I.P | 2014-2015]

Yep, fully expect just that.

 

Just now, othertomperson said:

The sane thing to do right now is wait for AMD's high end to emerge and (hopefully) force a pricing upheaval on all of these. Who knows how long you'd be waiting, however.

Currently doing 3-5 years in GSYNC. Maybe less depending on behavior.

[othertomperson]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

Yep, fully expect just that.

 

Currently doing 3-5 years in GSYNC. Maybe less depending on behavior.

Doesn't matter. If Vega makes the 1080 and Titan X cheaper, then it still benefits you to wait.

 

Edit: I should say, I am fully aware that I am being a massive hypocrite here  In my defence I needed new GPUs as soon as Pascal hit because my dad wanted to buy my old GPUs off of me when his old GPU (one of my old old 580s) died, so I couldn't really wait. Otherwise I wasn't even planning on upgrading this generation loooool

[App4that]

Just now, DocSwag said:

I know it's slightly more expensive, but you are getting a lot more performance for that small cost increase.

 

For Hitman, the game that scaled horribly, Luke shoulda put it in dx12 and activated explicit multi adapter. Then it would have scaled quite nicely.

You get more performance when it works. That's the elephant in the room.

 

Just now, othertomperson said:

Doesn't matter. If Vega makes the 1080 and Titan X cheaper, then it still benefits you to wait.

How? I have invested in GSYNC. Only option I had because AMD didn't have anything to compete with the 980ti. Not going to give up a feature I paid for just to save less than I paid for said feature. And why would I?

[othertomperson]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

You get more performance when it works. That's the elephant in the room.

 

How? I have invested in GSYNC. Only option I had because AMD didn't have anything to compete with the 980ti. Not going to give up a feature I paid for just to save less than I paid for said feature. And why would I?

Because when the new Fury costs $200 less than the 1080 (say), and that causes the 1080's price to come down in response you don't have to spend as much on the 1080.

[App4that]

7 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Because when the new Fury costs $200 less than the 1080 (say), and that causes the 1080's price to come down in response you don't have to spend as much on the 1080.

But time is money. Say I had waited to buy a 980ti because of Pascal, then the advice would be to wait for Vega, at which point the advice is wait for Volta. See the problem? I paid 700us for my Hybrid and sold it to a friend for 300us. That's 400us for 8 months of play, or 50us a month. Now I don't plan to do the same with the Titan XP if I get it (still waiting on the independent reviews) but the same holds true. To hold the same value the Titan XP has to last me 2 years. Quite the challenge but as by then I should have graduated I'm sure I'll find a use for it in another project.

[othertomperson]

9 minutes ago, App4that said:

But time is money. Say I had waited to buy a 980ti because of Pascal, then the advice would be to wait for Vega, at which point the advice is wait for Volta. See the problem? I paid 700us for my Hybrid and sold it to a friend for 300us. That's 400us for 8 months of play, or 50us a month. Now I don't plan to do the same with the Titan XP if I get it (still waiting on the independent reviews) but the same holds true. To hold the same value the Titan XP has to last me 2 years. Quite the challenge but as by then I should have graduated I'm sure I'll find a use for it in another project.

If it's worth the money to you then do whatever. Have you considered buying something like a 1080, selling it and replacing it when Volta hits rather than keeping one expensive thing for two years in the hope that it stays as good as it currently is?

[App4that]

Just now, othertomperson said:

If it's worth the money to you then do whatever. Have you considered buying something like a 1080, selling it and replacing it when Volta hits rather than keeping one expensive thing for two years in the hope that it stays as good as it currently is?

I have, still do honestly. If the reviews fall flat on the Titan XP that the most likely outcome. I also considered 1070s in SLI since the power draw would be the same as my 980ti.

[othertomperson]

5 minutes ago, App4that said:

I have, still do honestly. If the reviews fall flat on the Titan XP that the most likely outcome. I also considered 1070s in SLI since the power draw would be the same as my 980ti.

For me 1070 SLI makes the most sense from a pure high end cost/performance viewpoint. And hey there's always Titan X SLI...

[App4that]

3 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

For me 1070 SLI makes the most sense from a pure high end cost/performance viewpoint. And hey there's always Titan X SLI...

It does, but has marginal gains over 980ti SLI. Biggest cost difference is the lack of a need to buy a new power supply, but I'd still be stuck at 1070 level when SLI doesn't work.

 

Very tricky decision.

[othertomperson]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

It does, but has marginal gains over 980ti SLI. Biggest cost difference is the lack of a need to buy a new power supply, but I'd still be stuck at 1070 level when SLI doesn't work.

 

Very tricky decision.

I am still very sceptical about SLI not working that often given my experiences of it in the last 5 years. Also Nvidia Inspector is a really handy tool for driver optimisations. And you also get the additional CUDA cores compared to a single 1070. It will have fewer CUDA cores to two 980 Tis, though, and the 980 Ti does overclock to surpass the 1070 quite often, but it won't require a new PSU so. Eh.

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

I am still very sceptical about SLI not working that often given my experiences of it in the last 5 years. Also Nvidia Inspector is a really handy tool for driver optimisations. And you also get the additional CUDA cores compared to a single 1070. It will have fewer CUDA cores to two 980 Tis, though, and the 980 Ti does overclock to surpass the 1070 quite often, but it won't require a new PSU so. Eh.

My problem is for every person saying they don't have a problem with SLI there is a reviewer saying not to use it.

[othertomperson]

Just now, App4that said:

My problem is for every person saying they don't have a problem with SLI there is a reviewer saying not to use it.

The reviewers are coming from the perspective of people looking at buying two low end cards instead of a high end card, or wanting to upgrade a low end card. Like say someone had a 2GB 960 then in theory two of these could match a 980 and would cost the same amount, so why not?

 

Well anyone with two GTX 770s (in its day a very good value high performance option) will tell you that when paired with that level of GPU performance 2GB just doesn't go very far. Limited vram is the big problem with low end SLI imo. This problem doesn't exist right now in the high end like it does in the mid and low.

[App4that]

Just now, othertomperson said:

The reviewers are coming from the perspective of people looking at buying two low end cards instead of a high end card, or wanting to upgrade a low end card. Like say someone had a 2GB 960 then in theory two of these could match a 980 and would cost the same amount, so why not?

 

Well anyone with two GTX 770s (in its day a very good value high performance option) will tell you that when paired with that level of GPU performance 2GB just doesn't go very far. Limited vram is the big problem with low end SLI imo. This problem doesn't exist right now in the high end like it does in the mid and low.

But reviews of 1080 SLI from Luke and 1070 SLI from Paul both say they experience problems in games not supported by SLI. My 980ti is my first Nvidia card, was loyal Radeon before that. So my only experience is crossfire, and that was not enjoyable  When reviewer who don't normally give spicific advice but merely offer evidence to consider take a stand against something it takes equal evidence to outweigh. But like I said until the Benchmarks hit in a few days I won't throw down on a Titan XP. But until there's a better option that's backed by evidence it's the best choice. 1080 SLI being the exception in application specific tasks I'll concede but I'm looking to use it for more than those tasks.

[othertomperson]

5 minutes ago, App4that said:

But reviews of 1080 SLI from Luke and 1070 SLI from Paul both say they experience problems in games not supported by SLI. My 980ti is my first Nvidia card, was loyal Radeon before that. So my only experience is crossfire, and that was not enjoyable  When reviewer who don't normally give spicific advice but merely offer evidence to consider take a stand against something it takes equal evidence to outweigh. But like I said until the Benchmarks hit in a few days I won't throw down on a Titan XP. But until there's a better option that's backed by evidence it's the best choice. 1080 SLI being the exception in application specific tasks I'll concede but I'm looking to use it for more than those tasks.

I've asked people to be specific about what "SLI issues" specifically means beyond the vram one I mentioned earlier, but I've never had a response. The worst case scenario I personally have encountered (apart from GTA IV which was an all around shit-show) was a mere 40% fps increase rather than the 80% expected.

[App4that]

Just now, Abyssal Radon said:

Another Titan "XP" thread... Jesus guys. I will be getting either a 1080 Ti card or holding off of upgrading my cards this year. I kinda hope that the 1080 Ti has 10GB of GDDR5X and I want to see a Lightning series 1080 Ti hit the market before I even think about upgrading.

Like the Lightning 1080? also if based on the GP102 the T1080ti would have 9g, not 10.

[App4that]

Just now, othertomperson said:

I've asked people to be specific about what "SLI issues" specifically means beyond the vram one I mentioned earlier, but I've never had a response. The worst case scenario I personally have encountered (apart from GTA IV which was an all around shit-show) was a mere 40% fps increase rather than the 80% expected.

Both give specifics.

[othertomperson]

28 minutes ago, App4that said:

Both give specifics.

Paul's gripe seemed to be SLI scaling. So let's look at what his results actually were:

 

Metro Last Light: 24%

Crysis 3: 72%

GTA V: 84%

Rise of the Tomb Raider (Dx11 only): 55%

 

So there weren't any negatives, he just didn't think the percentage increase each time justified the price of the second card. None of the games he tested lost performance, and none of them stayed the same. RotTR has since had a massive patch enabling Dx12 multi GPU, and even Metro Last Light's performance increase was enough to put it to around 60 fps, rather than the 40 it was at prior.

 

Edit: The second video wasn't even negative. In Dx12 scaling is decent. It's 58% at 1080p and 78% at 4K (ie, the more GPU bound scenario). It outperformed the 1080 in both cases. What negative points are you getting from this?