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GabenJr

Intel and AMD don’t want you to know this… (but your old computer is still fine)

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Just how much is your old computer holding you back? Do you really need a CPU upgrade? Or can you get away with spending less?

 

 

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Anthony @ LINUS MEDIA GROUP             

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Thanks to x86 stagnation there's been little to no point in designing games for anything more than 4/4 CPUs lol. It's kind of insane to think at the longevity a Sandy Bridge part has now, compared to something like a Pentium being pretty much obsolete by 1997 or even a Prescott P4 being a dinosaur by the 2010s.

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This is also ignoring the 20% uplift you can grab from overclocking which I'm surprised you guys didn't show given you have that big ass water cooler on it.


Main Gaming PC - i7 8700k 5GHz 1.375v - EVGA Hybrid 2080 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Corsair H115i - EVGA 3000MHz - HX850i - Samsung NVME 256GB SSD - Samsung 850 Evo 512GB - Toshiba 3TB 7200RPM HD - Lian Li Air

 

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If you look at how assembly and binary code work you would see that making things happen faster requires a higher clock speed.

You can't write and read a value on the same clock cycle.

 

There are only so many things you can do to improve IPC without completely redesigning a new architecture.

 

Also, the IPC of current gen intel and AMD CPUs is almost identical, the difference is that the intel CPUs run at higher frequencies.


My sound system costs more than my PC.        Check out my S340 build log "White Heaven"        The "LIGHTCANON" flashlight build log        Project AntiRoll (prototype)        Custom speaker project

Spoiler

Intel i7 4790k | AMD Vega 64 | ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark S | Corsair Vengeance Pro 32GB | NZXT S340 | Seasonic Platinum 760 | modded H100i | Coolermaster SK630 White | Logitech MX Master 2S | 2x Samsung 850 Pro 512GB | WD Red 4TB Samsung 58" 4k TV | 2x Behringer NEKKST K8 | BIC Acoustech H-100II | Scarlett 2i4 | 2x AT2020

 

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Hi, I have this 4 years old system and I would really appreciate some advice to know what I should do to get more performance, especially on Monster Hunter: World - Iceborne since that's the game that I would like to run better. I'm very new and just starting to get interested in pc building so I don't know much, but I'm sure you fine folks will be able to give me great advice. Now, onto the system
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO-VH


CPU: Intel Core i5 6400 @2.70 GHz


RAM: Ok this is a bit tricky, I started with a 4GBs HyperX@2133 MHz and then I added (I know it's a stupid idea, but I didn't know any better when I did it) a 8GBs HyperX stick @2666 MHz. (They're both running at 2133 MHz now)
I know it's not very optimal but I'd like to keep it this way cause it got pricey.


GPU: 4GB Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 by Zotac
I hope this is enough information.
I know I didn't list some things but I'll add them if they're very important.
The real question is: Do I really need to upgrade? If yes, then what?

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Anything from or after the C2D and C2Q era is still really decent....

Especially with an SSD... 

Still rocking an E8400 (with gt 730 and 8gb ram)  with latest windows, on a DG45ID.( snappy af with ssd and can watch 1080p 60 fps videos smoothly)

Still rocking an i3 540 (with 750 ti and 12gb ram ) with windows 10 , on a DH55TC. (even better!)

HAIL INTEL MOTHERBOARDS.

:D

 It kinda makes me feel good and bad....

I feel happy that they are still rlly usable, but also bad since i need to upgrade for my use cases.... 


Please quote or tag me @Void Master,so i can see your reply.

 

Everyone was a noob at the beginning, don't be discouraged by toxic trolls even if u lose 15 times in a row. Keep training and pushing yourself further and further, so u can show those sorry lots how it's done !

Be a supportive player, and make sure to reflect a good image of the game community you are a part of. 

Don't kick a player unless they willingly want to ruin your experience.

We are the gamer community, we should take care of each other !

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Depending on what one does, and what one wants to do, a new rig can be more or less logical.

One thing I rarely if ever buy is a new case. The one I have at current works fine, has all the creature comforts I needed so far. So I don't buy a new case for a new rig.
Though, currently in the process of building a new rig with an Eatx motherboard, and my case doesn't support larger boards than ATX... But nothing a little good old case modding can't fix.

Though, at times one stumbles into a wall where some needed feature is frankly off the table with one's current components.
Like if you already have the best CPU for the socket/chipset your motherboard has, then there isn't really much more one can do.
If one already has maxed out the RAM capacity the CPU supports, then one frankly is left with little option than to buy a new CPU and/or motherboard if one needs more memory.
If one wants to use NVMe drives due to needing its impressive bandwidth for some application or another, but NVMe isn't supported by one's platform, then yet again, not much one can do than to get something newer.
Etc.

But otherwise, most things can typically be improved on without splurging money on a whole new computer.
There is typically room for better/more RAM, replacing a GPU is a walk in the park, same goes for CPU, PSUs, storage, etc.
And looking around on the second hand markets can yield some rather good upgrades for fairly little costs. (Though, more "popular" stuff is more expensive, so don't expect a killer deal on a 1080TI or something. Though, the 1070 is a bit lower performance, but a lot cheaper and a lot better value for your money.)
Heck, I am even running my very first LCD monitor to this day, and yes, it got some signs of its age and even some burn in, though have a feeling it will get "tossed out" (moved to my other computers) when I get a GPU without a VGA/DVI connector...

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Is it just me, or is the audio a bit weird?

For example at 1:47 it's a bit muted.


#MuricaParrotGang

The meme thread

 

 

 

All of my image memes are made with GIMP.

 

My specs are crap but if you are interested:

 

The meme-making Optiplex 780:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.0 GHz

GPU: NVidia Quadro FX 580

RAM: 2 GB

SSD: Non-existent

HDD: 1 TB

OS: Windows 7

 

Laptop: HP 255 G7

CPU: Ryzen 5 3500U

GPU: Radeon Vega 8

RAM: 8 GB

SSD: 500 GB NVMe

OS: Windows 10

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My "powerful" computer that I use for photo editing is a 2012 Lenovo T530. Still does the job quite well. I don't intend on looking to upgrade until 2022, and even then I may not if this thing is still running fine.

 

 My other daily driver is a refurb T450 I got last year for $320.

 

 My policy is "Old good tech is still good tech." That's why I'm fine with paying a premium up front if I can be reasonably certain that I'll get a long usable life out of a product.

You only really need newer or powerful hardware if you're doing intensive stuff, like 4k video editing, CAD, higher end gaming, etc, imho anyway.

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Posted (edited)

Have to admit I was quite disappointed with this video. It seemed rush despite there being a 2-month jump in the middle.

The metrics before upgrading anything showed that the CPU is actually not close to modern-day hardware even compared to two-three generations back even though that was one of the main points Anthony was taunting at the beginning of the video. Including Anthony's thought on how navigating through the server's directories seemed snappy after the poor benchmark results was really odd as--as Anthony said, "I mean browsing directories isn't a big thing, but, you do it a lot".

Loading up a 1080p video from YouTube on a $1000+ PC from a few years back is also something most people would expect to run just fine.

I thought it would get better once Anthony started getting into the hardware but seeing him complain about the small number of usb ports - 6 on the io of the motherboard - then have him pull out a PCIe expansion card which has just one USB A port and another USB C port seemed like a poor recommendation, to be fair, Anthony mentions the existence of others which can provide more. Anthony also puts in a 2.5 GbE controller but then just a few seconds later, after the time jump, mentions it might not be helpful for you and it isn't even providing any benefit for the desktop they have either.

Quote

so in our case we're not really getting much benefit over our original Gigabit Ethernet controller on our motherboard that being said it can do it

Anthony proceeds to check the WiFi speeds which are incredibly slow compared to Ethernet then simply states, 

Quote

TLDR it looks like make sure you get a decent Wi-Fi adapter

"it's not quite the upgrade we were hoping for" which Anthony states after testing the WiFi adapterseems to sum up most of this video quite well.

 

We aren't told what exactly Anthony did to fix the ram issues, did he simply put the old 8GB stick back in? It's unclear as all we're told is that its running 1600 mHz memory once again. Stating the games are running good while two crashes had just occurred also doesn't seem like the best description.

 

Overall, the number of issues that cropped up in this video makes it seem more like Linus troubleshooting the Six 8k Workstations one CPU vs a informative video.

Edited by aliceawonderland
Typo - scenario addition
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2 hours ago, LinkXXDD said:

Hi, I have this 4 years old system and I would really appreciate some advice to know what I should do to get more performance, especially on Monster Hunter: World - Iceborne since that's the game that I would like to run better. I'm very new and just starting to get interested in pc building so I don't know much, but I'm sure you fine folks will be able to give me great advice. Now, onto the system
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO-VH


CPU: Intel Core i5 6400 @2.70 GHz


RAM: Ok this is a bit tricky, I started with a 4GBs HyperX@2133 MHz and then I added (I know it's a stupid idea, but I didn't know any better when I did it) a 8GBs HyperX stick @2666 MHz. (They're both running at 2133 MHz now)
I know it's not very optimal but I'd like to keep it this way cause it got pricey.


GPU: 4GB Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 by Zotac
I hope this is enough information.
I know I didn't list some things but I'll add them if they're very important.
The real question is: Do I really need to upgrade? If yes, then what?

Installing unequally sized RAM modules tends to make life a bit harder for the memory management system.
I would recommend replacing the 4GB stick for an 8GB one.
I myself would keep the 4GB stick on the shelf, good in case one needs to do any trouble shooting in the future, since then one has a "known good" stick of memory.

In terms of CPU, 2.7 GHz is a fairly low base frequency, and its boost of 3.3GHz isn't that impressive either, but I wouldn't prioritize a CPU upgrade. (Considering that my current I5 3350P runs at 3.1 GHz base...)
I would look for an improvement here, maybe wait a bit and see if anything good crops up on the second hand market, or if stores has some on clearance.
I would primarily look for something with higher frequency. (An I7 7700 for example would be a considerable upgrade, those can be had for about 300 usd second hand or 350+ usd new. I would though look around for at least a few days to see what deals can be had.) But as stated, I wouldn't prioritize a CPU upgrade.

In terms of graphics, a GTX960 isn't "bad", but considering its a two generations old mid range card. (Though, should I say, I run a GTX660 myself. But I don't play games.)
Here is at least one source I could find on a quick google search: https://www.game-debate.com/low-vs-ultra-graphics-settings/35798-monster-hunter-world-iceborne/2439-geforce-gtx-960-ti-2gb Stating that it has a passble 50 fps average at 1080p high.
One could always go for a 970 second hand on Ebay for about 150-200 usd.
The 970 scores around 87 FPS average for the same settings. (A rough 70% improvement.)

I would start by changing out the 4 GB memory stick to an 8GB one, and look into getting a, 970, 980, or maybe a 1060, 1070.
(The 980TI is a "collectible item" so its overpriced due to people wanting purely for it being a 980TI.... Same story for the 1080TI...)

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Almost all i7 are still good in general, but the issue is everything below it are nowhere near as good, old i3s and (some)i5s suffer in a lot of heavier tasks, and the i7 upgrades often cost way more than what they're worth.

 

31 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

I would primarily look for something with higher frequency. (An I7 7700 for example would be a considerable upgrade, those can be had for about 300 usd second hand or 350+ usd new. I would though look around for at least a few days to see what deals can be had.) But as stated, I wouldn't prioritize a CPU upgrade.

It doesn't make sense to pay so much for a 7700 when you can get a Ryzen 3300X+Motherboard or Intel 10th gen spec equivalent for the same price. Unless you can get a 7700 for under 150 I would say it isn't worth it.

31 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

One could always go for a 970 second hand on Ebay for about 150-200 usd.

For ~$160 the 1650 Super is faster, uses less power and is new, but usually the 970 is closer to $100 and even then there are better used options near $100, it isn't even close to being worth $150+.

 

1 hour ago, LinkXXDD said:

The real question is: Do I really need to upgrade? If yes, then what?

If you want MH:W to run better the first step would be to upgrade the GPU, and decide if you need other upgrades as you go. There's a chance you would need to upgrade the RAM and maybe the CPU, but that could be after the GPU(and maybe PSU).

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1 hour ago, Hunter259 said:

This is also ignoring the 20% uplift you can grab from overclocking which I'm surprised you guys didn't show given you have that big ass water cooler on it.

They do what they need to, to try to make a point. Overclocking might make newer CPUs look less impressive, or it could have been due to stability issues as well.

 

Personally I know my old 3570K CPU is a good gaming PC, I never doubted it when I upgraded it (which confuses the hell out of me when Linus claimed the 3000G is basically a crappy cpu sure half the cores but still a good performer). Hell afaik the person I sold it to is still using it (not for gaming, but they can if they want). Same with my 6600K, great cpu but I wanted to upgrade.

 

Now I won't be throwing out my 6600k I'm still going to keep it, just like my 1070. In many places in the world now there are places that will take your old computers and salvage everything possible from the computer which makes it not really e-waste. In fact LTT did a video on such places.

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6 minutes ago, KaitouX said:

Almost all i7 are still good in general, but the issue is everything below it are nowhere near as good, old i3s and (some)i5s suffer in a lot of heavier tasks, and the i7 upgrades often cost way more than what they're worth.

 

It doesn't make sense to pay so much for a 7700 when you can get a Ryzen 3300X+Motherboard or Intel 10th gen spec equivalent for the same price. Unless you can get a 7700 for under 150 I would say it isn't worth it.

For ~$160 the 1650 Super is faster, uses less power and is new, but usually the 970 is closer to $100 and even then there are better used options near $100, it isn't even close to being worth $150+.

A GTX1650 costs 150+ usd.
And it has only about 75% of the performance compared to the GTX970.
They both have similar memory specs, so that won't make a major impact here, so its mainly some minor architectural differences that can close the gap a bit.
If one can get a 970 for 150-170 usd, then its a fairly good deal, even compared to a brand new 1650.

Though, as far as CPUs go, yes the I7 ones are in a vacuum rather good, but are practically a bit on the expensive side. (And why I stated twice that I wouldn't prioritize it, and that one should at least spend a couple of days hunting around for a good deal if one were to make such a decision. Though, LGA1200 is rolling out so the older generation tend to drop in price, both retail and second hand. Though, flagships tends to remain expensive regardless...)

But that doesn't change the fact that the i5 6400 is a bit on the slow side as far as CPUs go, so I would at least look for something better.
Like an I5 6600, or an I5 7500, or the I7 6700, or the I5 7600K. Or whatever else one can manage to find, I would though still state that one should look around for at least a day or three before committing to one CPU or another. Since the first thing one finds is rarely the best deal of the week.

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2 hours ago, GabenJr said:

Just how much is your old computer holding you back? Do you really need a CPU upgrade? Or can you get away with spending less?

 

~SNIP~

 

 

Im still rocking ....well just look at my sig..

its a roughly 8 year old system.

 

And im planning on upgrading the 1080ti (which i've had for about a year) to one of  this years upcoming  GPU's with HDMI 2.1 (a 3080ti unless Nvidia tries to pull a 20 series rip of, in which case ill go AMD if they can compete)  so i can finally replace my Plasma display for LGs 48" OLED and run 4k 120.

 

Currently have no reason to upgrade my CPU, im glad i went with the CPU i did, the core count has aged well :D

 

Would my CPU be bottlenecking my GPU and future GPU's ..yes ..if i was aiming for 144fps or higher, but since almost always putting myself in a GPU bound situation, be it Via 4k DSR, or future 4k native 120fps targets, and max game settings, i pritty much never hit a CPU bottleneck.


CPU: Intel i7 3930k w/OC & EK Supremacy EVO Block | Motherboard: Asus P9x79 Pro  | RAM: G.Skill 4x4 1866 CL9 | PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000w | VDU: Panasonic 42" Plasma |

GPU: Gigabyte 1080ti Gaming OC w/OC & Barrow Block | Sound: Asus Xonar D2X - Z5500 -FiiO X3K DAP/DAC - ATH-M50S | Case: Phantek Enthoo Primo White |

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad P/P |

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2 hours ago, LinkXXDD said:

Hi, I have this 4 years old system and I would really appreciate some advice to know what I should do to get more performance, especially on Monster Hunter: World - Iceborne since that's the game that I would like to run better. I'm very new and just starting to get interested in pc building so I don't know much, but I'm sure you fine folks will be able to give me great advice. Now, onto the system
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO-VH


CPU: Intel Core i5 6400 @2.70 GHz


RAM: Ok this is a bit tricky, I started with a 4GBs HyperX@2133 MHz and then I added (I know it's a stupid idea, but I didn't know any better when I did it) a 8GBs HyperX stick @2666 MHz. (They're both running at 2133 MHz now)
I know it's not very optimal but I'd like to keep it this way cause it got pricey.


GPU: 4GB Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 by Zotac
I hope this is enough information.
I know I didn't list some things but I'll add them if they're very important.
The real question is: Do I really need to upgrade? If yes, then what?

I feel like even going for an overclockable chip will help. although you should try and get more cores, though that would would need a motherboard upgrade. But the biggest thing is your gpu, the 960 just most likely cant cut it anymore

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This is a very odd video, obviously is the audio issue at the front forefront of it, which to me also made it feel very low energy.  It had periods where it just felt like watching Anthony mutter as he tinkered with an old computer.  

 

The scripting and planning of this also felt really off.  Like why do you need a 2.5 gig NIC?  Why is it even mentioned?  What's the overlap of people with a second or third gen i7 as their primary rig but they have a NAS or something in their home that can do a sustained output at 2.5 speeds and they didn't think to put a 2.5 gig card in their desktop?  I mean I could see if this was aimed at a college student and we're talking about how to leverage your college dorm's network on a budget type of thing, but a setup where this box sits on a desk, you run a cable from the box to your switch, and in turn your switch connects to some cable modem that that 1 gig nic was more than enough.  The whole network thing just kind of limps along until a muttered conclusion of "So I guess higher speed NICs may not be worth it...".  

 

The USB 3 and Bluetooth stuff felt kind of half baked.  I can see reasons there, but elaborate on them.  For most folks that plug a keyboard and a mouse into their computer, USB 2.0 is fine.  Adding two USB 3.0 ports on the back isn't a huge value add unless you're constantly pulling media of a camera or something over a cable.  But these decisions should be driven by "Hey I have this peripheral I want and here is how I can expand my system to utilize it."  

 

It feels like the two points that have solid application GPU makes it better at games and >1666MHz DDR3 is often asking for trouble pre Haswell and they get lost in all the digression on other upgrades.

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I exclusively used a raspberry pi 3 for a week while my main pc was down and although it can be frustratingly slow opening firefox and google, it was enough for most basic office and home tasks.

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NO!, you don't understand. You HAVE to upgrade every single generation, that's why it's such a big issue when AMD said you couldn't use Zen 3 on non x5xx boards, and why people whine every generation of Intel. it is absolutely a requirement to spend way too much money on incremental updates!!!

 

Spoiler

/s but i really shouldn't have to say it

 


Judge the product by it's own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

 

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Sorry to say, but I honestly think your $169 Core 2 Quad PC (adding 4GB DDR3 RAM, an SSD, & GTX 1050TI) upgrade video better demonstrates the potential performance benefits and cost-savings of upgrading an ancient rig:

 

Comparatively, an Athlon 3000G with a  GTX 1650 is only ~25% faster* than the Core 2 Quad system so you're essentially getting 75-80% of performance for $150-200 of upgrades instead of forking up $350-$400 for an all-new "budget" build.

 

Like this one:

Spoiler

.

 

P.S. the Core i7-3770K is roughly matches a Ryzen 3 3100 ;)

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6 hours ago, Ryz said:

Why didn't you overclock the 3770k.

They are using the ASUS P8Z77-V LX motherboard. Which I believe is the more budget board, that was more mass produced and (last time I looked) was the only consistent ASUS board you could find on the internet anymore for building a 3rd gen i7 system. Its overclocking capabilities and overall features are not as great, compared to what gamer systems were actually being built during this time (2012).

I remember both Steven from GamersNexus and Jay from JayzTwoCents were wanting to get a hold of 3rd gen system like this and make a similar video, and as well have it in the overall data charts for comparing.

 

Maybe if they were able to build/acquire a better example build of a 3770K system, this video would of made more sense to everyone on what they are trying to convey.

I feel like I know exactly what they are getting at, as I actually have the "gamer system" from 2012 and how its still rock solid overall to this day. The only real upgrades I've needed to do have been storage and GPU.

My specs:
ASUS P8Z77-V Pro MB
3770K overclocked to 4.5GHz
2x8GB G.Skill 2400MHz DDR3 RAM CL 10-12-12-31

ASUS ROG Strix RX480

 

I originally built the system in October 2012, but had an AMD HD7870 GHz edition GPU that I stayed on until AMD launched their Polaris cards. I upgrade my GPU and also did the NVMe BIOS mod to add support and use an NVMe SSD. My system is still doing fine and if I were to upgrade the GPU again, it would still be going strong with it being the carry with off loading a lot of things these days from the CPU to GPU.
I also bought the ASUS MG279Q 1440p monitor when it came out and this further put more onto GPU over the CPU. I've even streamed some games (although with some caveats). I can play any new game that comes out, generally with medium-ish graphic settings and I've yet to run into CPU bound issues. I do see it getting up there from time to time though and CPU spikes happen.
I'm pretty happy with how well my system has lasted and handled itself over the years.

 

If Anthony had the Pro or Deluxe version of the ASUS Motherboard, then the video might be different on how they went about it. The Pro board comes with 4 USB 3.0 on the back and 2 USB 2.0, it also came with an expansion card that gives you 2x USB 2.0 slots+eSata, as well as front OI support to plug in 4x more USB 3.0 and 8x USB 2.0.
It also came with WiFi on the Pro board and WiFi+Bluetooth on the Deluxe.

 

Linus had actually done an unboxing of the Pro board too lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahcVIGl3tc

 

There is still many little things that do add up and some annoying odds and ends that I could avoid if I were on a newer system. I'd love a new one of-course, but I can still keep going if I upgrade my GPU.

 

Interesting tidbit with my 3770K CPU when I was overclocking some years ago. I could get it to post 5.0GHz but it wouldn't boot windows, I could get Windows to boot 4.8GHz but wasn't stable. I could do 4.7GHz but didn't like how hot it would get even for my Corsair AIO H100.
so I settled on 4.5GHz for 24/7 use and I feel like I might of won on the silicon lottery for it as I could do 4.5GHz with a lower voltage that was a lot cooler. 1.25V

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