52,600$ fully loaded mac pro

[tech.guru]

except no one is using those intel processors anymore. they arnt even close to new 32/64 thread threadrippers and the price isnt even comparable. you can get a 64/128 thread core  EPYC 7742 processor for cheaper than slower 28 core xeon in your build.

 

apple is already behind the latest technology... exclusive agreement with intel is hurting its consumers

[Zando_]

Just now, JZStudios said:

Except they don't have to buy a Red camera.

Ya don't have to buy the Mac Pro. You don't have to buy the highest spec, $52K Mac Pro. 

1 minute ago, JZStudios said:

Didn't he also just buy the Cybertruck because he went to the launch event? Seems like a good person to get financial advice from.

Paid in full? IIRC it's still currently a $100 down that's refundable at basically any time. Even then, given how much he likely makes, and the fact that his content (which he makes said money off of) is based on stuff in this field, a Cybertruck is probably an easily justifiable purchase for him. 

[PlayStation 2]

24 minutes ago, TheWiseGuy said:

Companies like Pixar actually use multiple server banks to render their animations; Modern cinema-grade computer graphics are sophisticated and detailed enough that a single shot would take forever for a single computer to render otherwise.

No one said that they were going to render on Mac Pros; just that they'd be used to make assets and shit and would potentially help in massive ways to simplify the time needed to make those assets.

The best way to look at this is looking at how different CG companies rendered movies. I'll take two releases from around the same time that I do know the render resolutions of: Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie and Finding Nemo. Jonah was rendered at a higher resolution than Finding Nemo on notably weaker and cheaper hardware (1920x1080 vs. Finding Nemo's original render at 1600x900?), but the film itself doesn't look as advanced and (objectively, anyways) doesn't hold up as well as Finding Nemo. Neither look bad at all, but Finding Nemo has a lot more put into it that justified its lower resolution but better visual quality overall. Trust me, the anti-aliasing in Pixar films is bang-up compared to how VeggieTales has always handled it. 

[SenKa]

Just now, scuff gang said:

yes but will theyre be enterprise support for a mac pro, i can understand server ware

Considering there is a rackmount option coming, and there is *already* a separate pro certification required to offer support for the Mac Pro (trashcan), and iMac Pro? I would imagine the cheese-grater has a similar regiment and the support would follow.

[JZStudios]

20 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Ya don't have to buy the Mac Pro. You don't have to buy the highest spec, $52K Mac Pro. 

Paid in full? IIRC it's still currently a $100 down that's refundable at basically any time. Even then, given how much he likely makes, and the fact that his content (which he makes said money off of) is based on stuff in this field, a Cybertruck is probably an easily justifiable purchase for him. 

Yes, but I'm not sure what that guys original point was.

 

I don't know, good question. I don't watch his stuff, but isn't he more of phones and laptops, not vehicles?

[Blademaster91]

38 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Except they don't have to buy a Red camera.

 

Didn't he also just buy the Cybertruck because he went to the launch event? Seems like a good person to get financial advice from.

 

Pagani is also essentially a Boutique car shop, they only sell a few cars, and I think they're about on par with the competitors. I haven't exactly checked because I'm not in the market for one.

CNC machining cost. Also why the stand is $1000.

 

Trust me, Pixar already has PC's capable of doing their job. Disney used a server with 17,000 CPU cores to render Big Hero 6. Most of the desktops,while granted are high end, aren't server level because they don't need to be.

i've seen tech Youtubers put out great videos with a cheap consumer camera like the Sony RX100. And what really bothers me are the people that buy RED cameras only to crop down their content to resolutions more suited for watching on a phone, those people most definitely don't need RED cameras.

The person has a bias towards Apple anyway, so I wouldn't take their advice as genuine, not surprised they're getting a Cybertruck though as it seems to be aimed at wealthy tech journalists who don't even need a truck.

Apple wanting the mac pro to seem like some hand crafted boutique machine even when it's not is disappointing IMO, the previous mac pros were a more affordable pro-sumer machine that the end user could easily swap out parts if they wanted to.

The stand is cheap aluminum, sure if it were stainless steel, but I really it doubt it's worth $250 at the most even after machining. All of the software an audio or video studio  would need is available on PC, which would potentially be cheaper as well, so I still don't see the point of a studio needing a fully loaded mac pro.

 

[Flying Sausages]

over $50k for an Apple computer and you need this "special" cloth from Apple to clean the screen. The cloth probably contains rotten apple or Tim Cook crotch hair. Yet, people will going to buy it because "IT IS MY MONEY AND I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT BETCH.".

 

Heck, Apple can sell cucumber for $25k and people will going to buy it.

 

Apple right now is like Gucci in tech.

 

 

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Yes, but I'm not sure what that guys original point was.

 

I don't know, good question. I don't watch his stuff, but isn't he more of phones and laptops, not vehicles?

I've seen him do Teslas and IIRC a few other electric vehicles. He's gone to Tesla factories with Elon Musk a time or two as well. He can likely both write this off as a business expense and make bank off content on it as they get closer to release, and then once after release. Given the fact that he's been in with Tesla before, wouldn't be surprising if he was able to see them being actually built as well. 

So he has some pretty damn good reasons to buy a Tesla, especially the latest one that's all the news due to it's controversial design. Similar to how as a Mac user who works with 8K footage off of Red cameras, a Mac Pro is an easy purchase. Especially since he doesn't need the $52K top end, he used a config around $28K, and will probably end up with one similar to that price. 
 

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The person has a bias towards Apple anyway, so I wouldn't take their advice as genuine, not surprised they're getting a Cybertruck though as it seems to be aimed at wealthy tech journalists who don't even need a truck.

MKBHD? He's a Mac user with a use-case for a computer that can spit out his footage faster than realtime. See above, he's also covered Tesla before so ofc it's a good idea for him to buy one lol. 
 

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

the previous mac pros were a more affordable pro-sumer machine that the end user could easily swap out parts if they wanted to.

You realize that $52K is a maxed out machine? Most people will use a way cheaper config lol. 

 

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

All of the software an audio or video studio  would need is available on PC, which would potentially be cheaper as well, so I still don't see the point of a studio needing a fully loaded mac pro

A lot of audio guys use Macs for reasons (which I don't know, I'm not an audio guy, something about MIDI support and Logic being very good and stuff like that). Mac users aren't going to switch to a PC because that would be vastly more expensive. Any time spent learning how to use a PC for your workflow is time spent not doing work. There's a reason at my work we'll give people a $1400 base MacBook Pro if they're a Mac user, or a $700 HP laptop if they're a PC user. The mac is twice the price but hey people are used to them and it's more productive for them to use that, aka it works out cheaper because people do work instead of learning how to do work. 
 

8 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

over $50k for an Apple computer and you need this "special" cloth from Apple to clean the screen. The cloth probably contains rotten apple or Tim Cook crotch hair. Yet, people will going to buy it because "IT IS MY MONEY AND I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT BETCH.".

Again, max config. Most people will use one around $20K, comparable to the competition (which comes in at about $20K). I haven't seen about the cloth, but if people are buying monitors this expensive they probably don't want to scratch them. 

If you're gonna ree at monitor prices, a mammogram monitor is $12,700 or so. Nearly $13K just to look at titties. Welcome to biggboye pricing and the enterprise and medical space. 
 

Probably 3 people will buy one because they can, the rest will buy them because they need them. Even those few people buying them because they can, probably have enough disposable income that there's no issue paying that much for a computer. 

 

11 minutes ago, OlympicAssEater said:

Heck, Apple can sell cucumber for $25k and people will going to buy it.

X
 

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

i've seen tech Youtubers put out great videos with a cheap consumer camera like the Sony RX100. And what really bothers me are the people that buy RED cameras only to crop down their content to resolutions more suited for watching on a phone, those people most definitely don't need RED cameras.

LTT even made a nice video just for you! Shows exactly why they spent twice what a max spec Mac Pro is just for cameras to shoot YouTube content:

I'll reiterate. Y'all aren't the target market for Mac Pros, XDR displays, and RED cameras. I'm not the target market for Mac Pros, XDR displays, and RED cameras. The people who are the target market for these products don't care about the price. If they need it, they need it, and having it enables them to make more money than they spent on the device in the first place. 

[mr moose]

People need to stop trying to use the "target audience" as their rational for who can afford or doesn't care about the price of something.    I don't know a single person who doesn't care about cost except in exceptional circumstances (like being a fucking Billionaire and wanting solid gold curtains in your penthouse suite).  And I've worked with some pretty wealthy professionals who only want the best,  still not happy to pay more if they aren't getting something tangible for it.

[DrMacintosh]

7 hours ago, scuff gang said:

I have no idea why even apple fans are defending this price

It's not for you

It's for people that actually make content for a living. 

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

i've seen tech Youtubers put out great videos with a cheap consumer camera like the Sony RX100. And what really bothers me are the people that buy RED cameras only to crop down their content to resolutions more suited for watching on a phone, most definitely don't need RED cameras.

The person has a bias towards Apple anyway, so I wouldn't take their advice as genuine, not surprised they're getting a Cybertruck though as it seems to be aimed at wealthy tech journalists who don't even need a truck. Apple wanting the mac pro to seem like some hand crafted boutique machine even when it's not is disappointing IMO, the previous mac pros were a more affordable pro-sumer machine that the end user could easily swap out parts if they wanted to.

The stand is cheap aluminum, sure if it were stainless steel, but I really it doubt it's worth $250 at the most even after machining. All of the software an audio or video studio  would need is available on PC, which would potentially be cheaper as well, so I still don't see the point of a studio needing a fully loaded mac pro.

 

I think according to Captain Disillusion even Imax screens projecting 70mm film aren't even 4k. I don't actually know why you'd film in 8k unless you're doing maybe a lot of cropping or... I don't know, to get a super crisp green screen or something?

 

I haven't actually seen the stand, but depending on the raw size of the billet and how it's designed that makes a lot of machine time. Machine time = $

Also, it's possible they just sand blast the finished part, but parts coming straight off the machine still need a lot of work to get really smooth without obvious machine marks and lines. To Apple's credit, the machining they have done is phenomenal.

[Jae Tee]

Let me put my original argument simply:

If a machine can be built to perform just as well at COMPLETING A GIVEN TASK for a far cheaper price, then this pc is overpriced. 

 

The argument that it has so much ram is kind of moot. If you can't use that much ram, then apple is overcharging you just to put it in there in the first place. 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It's not for you

It's for people that actually make content for a living. 

How do you know he isn't a professional who makes a living from workstations like this?    And since when does the target audience make a price tag reasonable?

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How do you know he isn't a professional who makes a living from workstations like this? 

Because he’s complaining about the price and ignoring the performance now available on a Pro Mac workstation. 
 

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

And since when does the target audience make a price tag reasonable?

Since the creation of Capitalism? That’s kinda how the free market works my guy. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Because he’s complaining about the price and ignoring the performance now available on a Pro Mac workstation. 
 

So because someone can see a problem with the price of a product in comparison to other similar products they must not need that product?  It doesn't work that way.

 

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Since the creation of Capitalism? That’s kinda how the free market works my guy. 

That doesn't make any sense.  A target sales demographic does not dictate the reasonableness of the price tag, only the product compared to other market offerings can do that. 

[DrMacintosh]

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

A target sales demographic does not dictate the reasonableness of the price tag

In what free market economy does this hold true? Certainly not any of the ones that exist in reality. Take an economics course. Of course the target demographics determines the reasonableness of the price tag. 
 

The target audience for the Mac Pro have massive budgets. The Pro market (actual Pros not LTT Forum Pros) have work to do and they always pay a premium because they almost always use system builders. The opportunity cost needed to research, part together, order individual components, and warranty defective ones or get support for multiple machines is higher than just ordering from a system builder. 

 

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

only the product compared to other market offerings can do that. 

And other market offerings for Pro workstations are more expensive or roughly the same price as the Mac Pro but have weaker GPUs and at best comparable CPUs and they have less features overall.

The Mac Pro is competitive or CHEAPER than other workstations with more I/O and features. 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

MKBHD? He's a Mac user with a use-case for a computer that can spit out his footage faster than realtime. See above, he's also covered Tesla before so ofc it's a good idea for him to buy one lol. 

He'll probably get a Tesla for free then, and a workstation outputting realtime footage isn't all that special for a mac pro,as a macbook can quickly render files, so could a Threadripper system costing much less than those custom Xeon chips.

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

You realize that $52K is a maxed out machine? Most people will use a way cheaper config lol. 

Even a "way cheaper" $20,000 system is a lot to spend on a single system for many companies.

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

A lot of audio guys use Macs for reasons (which I don't know, I'm not an audio guy, something about MIDI support and Logic being very good and stuff like that). Mac users aren't going to switch to a PC because that would be vastly more expensive. Any time spent learning how to use a PC for your workflow is time spent not doing work. There's a reason at my work we'll give people a $1400 base MacBook Pro if they're a Mac user, or a $700 HP laptop if they're a PC user. The mac is twice the price but hey people are used to them and it's more productive for them to use that, aka it works out cheaper because people do work instead of learning how to do work. 

Besides needing Logic or being accustomed to using a Mac, a lot of pros moved on to using PC's because Apple didn't have a pro workstation that wasn't a laptop or AIO. I'm not an audio guy either but one of the reasons is latency, but I wonder how that is with the T2 chip causing problems with some USB devices.

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

Again, max config. Most people will use one around $20K, comparable to the competition (which comes in at about $20K). I haven't seen about the cloth, but if people are buying monitors this expensive they probably don't want to scratch them. 

They have a point, Apple is selling the form over function, they've become more of a fashion brand selling $400 wheels and a $1,000 stand. A $6,000 "PRO" monitor needing a "special" cleaning cloth? The pro-sumers don't care about the cheese grader case either, and people having the money for such hardware doesn't make it any less overpriced.

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

LTT even made a nice video just for you! Shows exactly why they spent twice what a max spec Mac Pro is just for cameras to shoot YouTube content:

And funny enough it's cropped and only really watchable on a phone, or the few people that bought ultrawide monitors. I get if they do it for downsampling but it doesn't make sense to shoot in in anything more than 4k because of Youtube's video compression, still doesn't explain the video cropping.

First Linus whined about spending $140,000 on cameras, and later says he "needed" them, have to get the drama for views I guess.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

In what free market economy does this hold true?

 

All of them.  if you have 3 computers that all do the exact same job, 2 are $40K and 1 is $60K, it is basic math that the $60K computer is at an unreasonable price.  The target sales demographic is irrelevant.

 

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Certain not any of the ones that exist in reality. Take an economics course. Of course the target demographics determines the reasonableness of the price tag. 
 

???  please.

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The target audience for the Mac Pro have massive budgets. 

The target audience for most workstations have massive budgets, that doesn't change the reasonableness of the price tag.

 

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The Pro market (actual Pros not LTT Forum Pros) have work to do and they always pay a premium because they almost always use system builder.

How have you managed to conclude that being a professional somehow makes a comparative exercise moot?

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The opportunity cost needed to research, part together, order individual components, and warranty defective ones or get support is higher than just ordering from a system builder. 

again how does that effect anything, all system builders have to do that, it's not like apple are the only ones with an R+D expense or post sales support expense.

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

And other market offerings for Pro workstations are more expensive or roughly the same price as the Mac Pro but weaker GPUs and comparable CPUs and less features. 

Some have already been listed on these forums, equal performing products at cheaper prices.  I don't why you have to assume someone isn't a professional or doesn't know what they are talking about because they pointed that out.

 

 

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

 I'm not an audio guy either but one of the reasons is latency,

I am a pro audio guy,  Most apple workstations for audio are just straight up macs, nothing fancy and they are the older ones.  PC is cheaper in many situations these days leaving more money for the DAW.  A good DAW will set you back $1000 and then all your plugins and various other titbits will add up again.  Some studio's will easily spend as much on software as they will on the PC. So basically no one wants to be spending extra on a Mac when it doesn't offer anything over a PC.

[Zando_]

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

He'll probably get a Tesla for free then, and a workstation outputting realtime footage isn't all that special for a mac pro,as a macbook can quickly render files, so could a Threadripper system costing much less than those custom Xeon chips.

Nah he'll probably buy one. Macbook pro did the test clip in just over 20 minutes, midrange Mac Pro in 4 minutes and 20 seconds. He's a Mac user, why would he get TR when he can get a Mac Pro that smashes his workloads while keeping the flow and software (IIRC he specifically said he edits in Final Cut Pro which does not run on Windows) he's used to?
 

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Besides needing Logic or being accustomed to using a Mac, a lot of pros moved on to using PC's because Apple didn't have a pro workstation that wasn't a laptop or AIO. I'm not an audio guy either but one of the reasons is latency, but I wonder how that is with the T2 chip causing problems with some USB devices.

Valid point. 

 

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

They have a point, Apple is selling the form over function, they've become more of a fashion brand selling $400 wheels and a $1,000 stand, a $6,000 "PRO" monitor needing a "special" cleaning cloth?pro-sumers don't care about the cheese grader case

Yes on the stand, eh on the wheels. The monitor is actually very well priced compared to the competition, AFAIK they're usually much more. 

 

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And funny enough it's cropped and only really watchable on a phone, or the few people that bought ultrawide monitors. I get if they do it for downsampling but it doesn't make sense to shoot in in anything more than 4k because of Youtube's video compression, still doesn't explain the video cropping.

Did you watch the video? They explain why they use them, Corridor Digital also explains why they use them. MKBHD uses RED cameras as well, IDK if he has made a video on why or not though, but they are useful for the people who need them. 

 

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

First Linus whined about spending $140,000 on cameras, and later says he "needed" them, have to get the drama for views I guess.

Welcome to YouTube baby, first time?

[DrMacintosh]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

All of them.  if you have 3 computers that all do the exact same job

So you think the Mac Pro does the same job as a 2C/4T ultrabook? I assume not, so naturally you now see the absurdity of your claims. 
 

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The target audience for most workstations have massive budgets, that doesn't change the reasonableness of the price tag.

It actually does though. Because these customers are paying a premium to bypass the eliminate the opportunity cost of having to become their own system integrators for large scale deployments. In addition these customers get technical support and warranty support. 
 

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How have you managed to conclude that being a professional somehow makes a comparative exercise moot?

Comparing the Mac Pro to other Workstations has shown that it’s a very competitive machine. 
 

 

 

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

again how does that effect anything, all system builders have to do that,

Yes but production studios aren’t trying to become their own System integrators now are they? They don’t want to pay someone or lose valuable time parting together rigs for their needs when they can just buy a rig that’s been made FOR THEM, recoup the extra price by doing their jobs and keep on working. 
 

I don’t think you grasp how professionals really do work, buy equipment, or value their time. 
 

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Some have already been listed on these forums, equal performing products at cheaper prices.

You can find more expensive ones with less performance that are more expensive too. What’s your point? That consumers have options and one workstation isn’t inherently better than another for many reasons which can’t practically all be listed individually in a forum reply? 
 

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't why you have to assume someone isn't a professional or doesn't know what they are talking about because they pointed that out

Let’s face it. If you’re on the LTT forum, you’re not a potential Mac Pro or other workstation customer.

[Letgomyleghoe]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

 

Let’s face it. If you’re on the LTT forum, you’re not a potential Mac Pro or other workstation customer.

let's face it. you're on the LTT forum, you're a potential Mac Pro or workstation customer.

your profile name's DRmacintosh I would assume that you are a Mac user 

 

and there is alot of people on her who use workstations all the time, myself and others included just because were on a tech forum doesn't mean were not people who work jobs or have hobby's that need workstations... 

[Kisai]

33 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

In what free market economy does this hold true? Certainly not any of the ones that exist in reality. Take an economics course. Of course the target demographics determines the reasonableness of the price tag. 
 

The target audience for the Mac Pro have massive budgets. The Pro market (actual Pros not LTT Forum Pros) have work to do and they always pay a premium because they almost always use system builders. The opportunity cost needed to research, part together, order individual components, and warranty defective ones or get support for multiple machines is higher than just ordering from a system builder. 

 

And other market offerings for Pro workstations are more expensive or roughly the same price as the Mac Pro but have weaker GPUs and at best comparable CPUs and they have less features overall.

The Mac Pro is competitive or CHEAPER than other workstations with more I/O and features. 

I've been saying this all week. The Mac Pro is cheaper than the competition, and most of that is due to the parts not being available on the other brands.

 

Like in three different places I mentioned that the 59K Mac Pro priced out in a Dell Workstation does not produce a working workstation because you either need to add 30K in ram (bringing it to 92K) or adding a second CPU to use the smaller RAM modules but 24 of them.  And that is before you even get to the GPU.

 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Kisai said:

I've been saying this all week. The Mac Pro is cheaper than the competition, and most of that is due to the parts not being available on the other brands.

No no no, you don’t understand. The LTT forum knows what’s best. The Mac Pro is too expensive for Jimmy and Tom thinks he can build one in his own for cheaper. Therefore the Mac Pro is bad. 
 

/s

[amdorintel]

6 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

No no no, you don’t understand. The LTT forum knows what’s best. The Mac Pro is too expensive for Jimmy and Tom thinks he can build one in his own for cheaper. Therefore the Mac Pro is bad. 
 

/s

you forgot that intel is bad too and ryzen rules the world!

might as well throw in rgb because that'll make the pc better too!