52,600$ fully loaded mac pro

[Ashleyyyy]

2 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Also lol, in recent years they've actually been easier to repair (for the two most common ones, the screen and battery) than most other flagships

not sure about that, but i did get a second 3GS gifted to me for my old devices collection with a cracked screen, so i took the screen from my old 3GS and swapped it over because the other phone still works fine, whereas mine has issues. that was surprisingly easy when i followed a guide on how to do it. 

[Guest]

All this energy and we choose to use it to be as toxic as possible about some silicon and metal.

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

this thread has given me hiv+

please put this out of its fucking misery

 

1 minute ago, Twilight said:

not sure about that, but i did get a second 3GS gifted to me for my old devices collection with a cracked screen, so i took the screen from my old 3GS and swapped it over because the other phone still works fine, whereas mine has issues. that was surprisingly easy when i followed a guide on how to do it. 

I've worked on the 6, 6 Plus, 6S, SE, 7, IIRC an 8, 4S, and a few iPads. iPhones aren't that bad for screen replacement time, I just hate the seal around the display on the 6S and newer, but that has to be there for the IP rating (and I'd rather my phone survive the bath tbh). iPads are the spawn of Satan himself built in collaboration with Hitler and repairing them is a torture I do not wish upon my worst enemies. Basically imagine glue but it's got glass in it and the cables crimp so the digitizer just dies again...

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

Haven't run into reliability issues with new Macbook Pros or Airs yet. If we have issues with the keebs (most likely problem) then those are covered by Apple and we'll sort that out. Those are the main unreliability thing, and it's the result of a poor design choice, not construction. Has since been fixed with the 16" and likely will be once they refresh the 13"/replace it with a 14". Soldering is an oof, but for our current use case we have no need to upgrade, can just pull them out of the box, load up software, slap it into the hands of a user. On PC laptops I have to replace the HDDs with SSDs because Windows 10 isn't usable with a spinning disk. Those PC laptops are also much cheaper though, to be fair. 

They work really well with your iPhone and are apparently convenient and comfortable to wear. That's why people buy them. 

 

There's always people who buy stuff for the flex, that does not mean every person to buy one is just doing it for flex reasons.

IMO it's more of both poor design and construction if the keys start double typing or quit working from normal use, which is still enough of a problem there was a class action lawsuit over. The PC laptops having an HDD is good and bad, I can't go back to using an HDD on Windows, but at least you can service them somewhat, anything fails in the Apple laptop and you wait a week after shipping it in for repairs.

Then those people are choosing convenience over quality, and even if they're not trying to flex they still are, reminds me of how most iPhone cases have a cutout for the logo.

1 hour ago, Twilight said:

the 2013 and 2014's were nice too iirc. the 2015 had some kind of battery thing but the only difference with the 2013/4 and the 2012 is that upgrades are not as good. 
 

only people who want to flex buy them. i own a very nice Sony headset despite being an "apple fan" 

Yeah I agree the 2013-2014 Macbooks are nice, newest I would go if i needed a Mac, you can upgrade the storage but it uses a special connector.

I do get the convenience but with how many other wireless headphones there are it isn't difficult to get something reasonably price that also sounds good.

[Zando_]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

IMO it's more of both poor design and construction if the keys start double typing or quit working from normal use, which is still enough of a problem there was a class action lawsuit over.

No it's legit a design flaw lol. They tried to fix it 3 times and couldn't, so they've moved back to a more traditional design on the latest refresh. Not a QC/QA issue at all, purely a flawed design they tried to keep using due to an obsession with thinness that they've thankfully eased up on with the 16". 

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The PC laptops having an HDD is good and bad, I can't go back to using an HDD on Windows, but at least you can service them somewhat, anything fails in the Apple laptop and you wait a week after shipping it in for repairs.

You can service many PC laptops with SSDs, and most MacBooks up till the 2016 refresh IIRC (also where they brought in the stupid keyboard). RAM has been soldered for a while as well though, since back on the 2013s. 

An HDD on anything shipping with Windows 10 is not good in any way whatsoever. 

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Then those people are choosing convenience over quality, and even if they're not trying to flex they still are, reminds me of how most iPhone cases have a cutout for the logo.

What? 

Also if you want the true flex, you buy the dbrand robots limited skin for your titanium Apple Card but it's 99.87% for the memes and you never run it because skins make the card too thick to use in a chip reader anyways. 

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah I agree the 2013-2014 Macbooks are nice, newest I would go if i needed a Mac, you can upgrade the storage but it uses a special connector.

2015 15" is a work of art too (no battery issues with the one I used to edit on, ex-boss still uses that to this day as well), probably my favorite MacBook in existence, next to a mid-2012 15" MBP with the i7, high res screen option, and no dGPU. 

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I do get the convenience but with how many other wireless headphones there are it isn't difficult to get something reasonably price that also sounds good.

Or... you just get AirPods because you wanted AirPods. If you don't want AirPods you just don't buy them, you don't have to get worked up over people paying for something they want that fits their use case perfectly. 

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

- machines similar from their main competitors in this market (HP, Dell etc) are the same price approximately that I've seen

similar price, similar performance which makes arguments about it being better, refined, having more features  moot and frankly grasping at straws if people want it to mean anything.

 

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

- it's not aimed at consumers, if you are a prosumer buy an iMac Pro

Again this is a flawed argument,  it doesn't matter who the target buyer is,  All products can be compared to their competition without needing to know who the target buyer is. I can compare three hammers of the same quality and size to their respective prices, I don;t need to know if they are designed for chippies, framers or cabinet makers to know which one is the better value.

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

- name a consumer machine that can handle 1.5TB of ram in practice

Titan will build one almost identical the maxed out mac (including 1.5TB)  for $10K less.

 

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

- macOS has a value to pro's that need software that runs on it

Some do, some have windows only softrware too, Which makes it a moot point.

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

- there is a rack mount version, further proving that this is not a consumer machine

There is a rack mount version of nearly all workstations.  Not sure why this is a point in favor.

8 hours ago, Twilight said:

 

do I need to go on?

 

It would be nice if people could actually talk to the facts rather than keep deflecting with insinuations that the target buyer has any relevance to product comparison.

 

I mean, this isn't a complicated issue,  you build a workstation using any one of the various companies that offer them and compare them against each other,    If two virtually identical products in all regards have different price tags, then the cheaper one is better value.  It is not logical to claim the more expensive one isn't over priced because you don't think professionals care about money.

[Tristerin]

How is this thread still going on?  If you don't understand the price, you don't understand business.  If you think its expensive, so do I - but its not expensive if it can make me more money over X period of time so that it turns a pure profit in X.  Plain and simple.  My brother and I just put together a Threadripper 2950wx recently with 128gb of RAM.  Prior we had a R7 1700 doing our video encoding and it was sufficient because that side of business work coming in was at a rate that the computer was idle more than in use.  

 

Fast forward to 2 months ago and the $3000+ build wasn't even a consideration on the price as we walked out of Microcenter.  What was, was the performance.  It needed to destroy 4k video editing.  It does.  Its already paid for itself and is now turning pure profits faster than ever.  If the work gets to the point we need another (or better) guess what...price wont matter.  Could we utilize this subject system?  Hell no, not at all, so it would be a terribad investment.  That's all it comes down to.

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

How is this thread still going on?  If you don't understand the price, you don't understand business.

I think it's quite the stretch to argue people don't understand the business.  No one is complaining that the price is too high for workstations, they are arguing the price is too high when suitable alternatives exist that are cheaper.  Sure there is the odd forum pleb who thinks a basic i7 and 32G of ram is comparable, but they are by no means the majority of people discussing the price. 

 

15 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

 

  If you think its expensive, so do I - but its not expensive if it can make me more money over X period of time so that it turns a pure profit in X. 

There in lies the core argument,  people who are arguing it is too high are comparing it to machines that can do the same amount of work.

15 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

 

Plain and simple.  My brother and I just put together a Threadripper 2950wx recently with 128gb of RAM.  Prior we had a R7 1700 doing our video encoding and it was sufficient because that side of business work coming in was at a rate that the computer was idle more than in use.  

 

Fast forward to 2 months ago and the $3000+ build wasn't even a consideration on the price as we walked out of Microcenter.  What was, was the performance.  It needed to destroy 4k video editing.  It does.  Its already paid for itself and is now turning pure profits faster than ever.  If the work gets to the point we need another (or better) guess what...price wont matter.  Could we utilize this subject system?  Hell no, not at all, so it would be a terribad investment.  That's all it comes down to.

what if at the time you were told you could get the same performance for $2600, are you seriously suggesting that the difference of $400 wouldn't even make you blink?  I think it would. In fact in my experience majority of people from warren buffet to the hobo around the corner would look more closely at the cheaper option then start asking what benefit there is to the more expensive.  That is how professionals approach their tools. 

[Tristerin]

23 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I think it's quite the stretch to argue people don't understand the business.  No one is complaining that the price is too high for workstations, they are arguing the price is too high when suitable alternatives exist that are cheaper.  Sure there is the odd forum pleb who thinks a basic i7 and 32G of ram is comparable, but they are by no means the majority of people discussing the price. 

 

There in lies the core argument,  people who are arguing it is too high are comparing it to machines that can do the same amount of work.

what if at the time you were told you could get the same performance for $2600, are you seriously suggesting that the difference of $400 wouldn't even make you blink?  I think it would. In fact in my experience majority of people from warren buffet to the hobo around the corner would look more closely at the cheaper option then start asking what benefit there is to the more expensive.  That is how professionals approach their tools. 

I don't think its a stretch, its pretty evident here (and that's okay) - and yes people are complaining about the price at a workstation level.  Suitable is definable, so perhaps there isn't for use cases (cheaper alternatives).  

 

As for the core argument - isnt a portion of the actual hardware of this rig proprietary?  Yes it is so Im unsure how it will do the same work.  Im unsure how you get 1.5tb of RAM stable or bootable on that setup.  A lot of it alludes me but what doesn't is the business side of it and to me - its quite simple.  If I need that, and or that things performance NOW (this is a global world, reacting now is quite important) and I have the capital, and my expenditures can allow it to fit in the budget - get it.  Order it yesterday, is it here yet?  I build CapEx often enough at my corporate job that I am at a loss why this isnt thought of simply.

 

For a small startup, I think $400 could be impactful and you would be wise to weigh, measure, and see if you will find yourself wanting.  The real answer for us (not a small startup, my brother and Is situation) was - we've hit a situation where we have to act fast, this threadripper setup it is - no questions ask, get it now, get it encoding yesterday.

 

BTW I work for Daddy Buffet - sooooo I kind of know how the CapEx's work for his organizations.

 

EDIT - my work laptop is Xeon E-2276M just for crunching excel calculations as fast as possible (while mobile).  An i7 9850H does them just as fast (most of the time) - doesn't matter the Xeon was a no brainer.  To save seconds.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

I don't think its a stretch, its pretty evident here (and that's okay) - and yes people are complaining about the price at a workstation level.  Suitable is definable, so perhaps there isn't for use cases (cheaper alternatives).  

How is it evident? all we have are a bunch of opinions, I am trying to discuss only the objectively quantifiable.   Claiming people don't understand the product or market is not a defensible position.    There is no way to counter the position that most of the arguments in this could have easily been from the perspective of well educated end users.   On either side.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

As for the core argument - isnt a portion of the actual hardware of this rig proprietary?  Yes it is so Im unsure how it will do the same work. 

The only part in hardware that is not directly comparable are the GPU's, however for general comparison you could just compare raw compute. If anything adding a pair of p6000 does a disservice for the other workstation as they are twice the price and lower performing.

 

5 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Im unsure how you get 1.5tb of RAM stable or bootable on that setup.  A lot of it alludes me but what doesn't is the business side of it and to me - its quite simple.  If I need that, and or that things performance NOW (this is a global world, reacting now is quite important) and I have the capital, and my expenditures can allow it to fit in the budget - get it.  Order it yesterday, is it here yet?  I build CapEx often enough at my corporate job that I am at a loss why this isnt thought of simply.

That's why I linked to a company that builds workstations, they will build you a comparable workstation with 1.5TB ram and make sure it is stable, offer all the warranties and after sales service.   There is literally nothing apple provides that isn't provided by the others, so arguments like, "I need it now", "I need it to just work",  "I need after sales support and warranties etc".  are all moot, you can get that from all the manufacturers.

 

5 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

For a small startup, I think $400 could be impactful and you would be wise to weigh, measure, and see if you will find yourself wanting.  The real answer for us (not a small startup, my brother and Is situation) was - we've hit a situation where we have to act fast, this threadripper setup it is - no questions ask, get it now, get it encoding yesterday.

It all scales, $400 for a small buysiness,  $4K for a slightly larger one and $10K for a big company.  Money is money and all considerations are important, that is why companies buy 2c screws instead of 5c screws etc and so on.  The "they don't care about cost" is a fallacy, everyone cares about cost, what they care about is getting a tool that does the job.

 

[godly666]

1 hour ago, Zando Bob said:

 

Ugh. It's a different thought process, you can't seem to separate yourself from your identity as an individual and not a business. Companies exist to make money, if something makes you more money more faster due to letting people do work faster with less hiccups and effort then the price becomes less and less of a consideration. For entities who have the workflow and deadlines that warrant the power of a Mac Pro, the price is inconsequential. Some people need to run a 2950X with 128GB RAM and a 200GB 4xNVMe drive RAID 0 cache for lightroom and photoshop because they need to spit out 400 photos in 3 hours. The price of that machine doesn't mean much at that point. 

I know how businesses run and no it's not a different thought pattern. The goal is money. If you can get the same job done in the same amount of time and pay less, you're gonna do that. Business does not just ignore cost for a brand name. Business does not ignore costs. PERIOD. What you are saying is absolutely moronic. People in this thread have already linked many sites and vendors selling equal or greater machines for the same price or less. No company is going to pay more just for the sake of it. That's how you go bankrupt FFS.

[Tristerin]

21 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How is it evident? all we have are a bunch of opinions, I am trying to discuss only the objectively quantifiable.   Claiming people don't understand the product or market is not a defensible position.    There is no way to counter the position that most of the arguments in this could have easily been from the perspective of well educated end users.   On either side.

 

 

The only part in hardware that is not directly comparable are the GPU's, however for general comparison you could just compare raw compute. If anything adding a pair of p6000 does a disservice for the other workstation as they are twice the price and lower performing.

 

That's why I linked to a company that builds workstations, they will build you a comparable workstation with 1.5TB ram and make sure it is stable, offer all the warranties and after sales service.   There is literally nothing apple provides that isn't provided by the others, so arguments like, "I need it now", "I need it to just work",  "I need after sales support and warranties etc".  are all moot, you can get that from all the manufacturers.

 

It all scales, $400 for a small buysiness,  $4K for a slightly larger one and $10K for a big company.  Money is money and all considerations are important, that is why companies buy 2c screws instead of 5c screws etc and so on.  The "they don't care about cost" is a fallacy, everyone cares about cost, what they care about is getting a tool that does the job.

 

I typed up something, then I was like - its Moose, he and I wont agree so Ill keep it simple.

 

Would buy if I could make it pay for itself in 1 year.  I have no idea how to make this widget (see, any tool) make money at that level so it would be a bad investment for me, personally, at this time.  Until then (I would have a use case to utilize it) I wont buy it.

 

EDIT - Not trying to be callous but we rarely agree Moose and I don't want to argue my thoughts vs yours.  Because that's what it would be.  What I know is that my office setup is serious overkill.  Hell my desktop printer is $1500s cause capacity and speed.  Aint nobody (me) got time to be loading it with paper, or waiting for something to print.  Same goes for all of the overkill stuff my work gets me.  

 

 

[LOST TALE]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:52 PM, Polyvalent said:

At a professional level I can think of a few reasons, one being it's a giant tax write off and another being that that kind of productivity could have a solid ROI, depending on what you're actually doing with it.

The tax write off is at best a % discount equal to the entitie's marginal tax rate. so no more than 50%. even at 25k like wtf

[WkdPaul]

... sigh ...

 

Thread somewhat cleaned and locked.

 

Insults and trolling is still a violation of the Community Standards.