Apple Has Deprecated OpenAL in macOS 10.15 Catalina

[mfwass]

Apple Has Deprecated OpenAL in macOS 10.15 Catalina

 

Apple has announced today in the macOS 10.15 Beta Release Notes that they will be deprecating OpenAL from macOS. This announcement comes almost one year after the Apple announced the deprecation of OpenGL in the release notes of macOS Mojave.

Quote

The OpenAL framework is deprecated and remains present for compatibility purposes. Transition to AVAudioEngine for spatial audio functionality.

 

This announcement will certainly create headaches among the third-party software community as software developers will need to modify their applications to account for this deprecation, in addition to the previous year's deprecation of OpenGL. While the deprecation of specifically OpenAL isn't a that significant of a problem; it has established a dangerous pattern that Apple will continue deprecating support for open standards. This is not something that developers will be thrilled to hear.

 

macOS Catalina Beta Release Notes:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos_release_notes/macos_10_15_beta_release_notes

 

macOS Mojave Release Notes:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos_release_notes/macos_mojave_10_14_release_notes

[MadmanRB]

Yes.... apple needs to die.

At the very least they could adapt vulkan but no.

Ironic now Microsoft is more open source friendly these days.

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

eprecation of open standards mean more trouble for cross-platform developers,

 

4 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Ironic now Microsoft is more open source friendly these days.

They're not removing it, just no longer updating it themselves.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Who even uses Macs these days? Thermals are abysmal, keyboard is garbage, no Magsafe, donglefest, deprecation of open standards mean more trouble for cross-platform developers, overpriced, etc, etc.

Why have a problem with what other people use? It’s their money, not yours. I have my reasons for owning a Mac and it’s none of your business.

[justpoet]

The real question is…what applications are using OpenAL that aren't already ALSO using other options for audio on other platforms?  OpenAL has been fairly solely updated by Apple for a long time, and also makes sense to deprecate if deprecating OpenGL.  OpenAL was designed to map audio into OpenGL space, tying into the OpenGL 3d objects for location, so they go fairly well hand in hand.  Unfortunately, the standards review board for OpenAL never really got around to being formed, and the reference implementation of OpenAL was pretty much the end of it, with Creative taking it proprietary after that, leaving the open source variants untouched unless somebody like Apple were to be updating it themselves (and Apple has been the only major company doing so).  There are other 3d audio implementations and libraries being used today, many of which make more sense to use than OpenAL unless you're also using OpenGL for your primary graphics modeling.

 

So, this really shouldn't be a surprise, and really shouldn't affect most any of you anyway.  There were a very limited number of games using it in the first place, leaving only a couple common app's specific sections such as Blender's Game Engine to still use OpenAL.

 

You can see the sum total of OpenAL games in their list here:

https://www.openal.org/games/

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Who even uses Macs these days? Thermals are abysmal, keyboard is garbage, no Magsafe, donglefest, deprecation of open standards mean more trouble for cross-platform developers, overpriced, etc, etc.

I do. the software is too good. I don't use a Mac with the garbage keyboard though, mine is older. 

[Hellion]

1 hour ago, floofer said:

Why have a problem with what other people use? It’s their money, not yours. I have my reasons for owning a Mac and it’s none of your business.

Why have a problem with what other people say? I have my reasons for coming to the conclusion that apple is a trash company and its none of your business.

[RejZoR]

Death of OpenAL is kinda Creative's fault because they gave almost no fucks about it and hasn't been updated for ages. Microsoft killed DirectSound3D, but OpenAL did work with Vista and above and did support HW acceleration of audio.

[williamcll]

Aren't opengl compatible with vulkan? 

[RasmusDC]

4 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Good for you, but I didn't ask your reasons.

 

It's a fact: macs are a bad choice nowadays, and they were not that bad a few years ago.

 

If you need one, just use one. If you don't, you can get better stuff.

are they really... 

 

i fully agree with the keyboard, and when a laptop does not reach baseclock then we have an issue, but my 5530 dell office laptop does not hit turbo in longer sessions, my alienware i had to work a lot with throttlestop to get it working... and that is a 8+ pound laptop.

 

Laptop cases are just not for high performance parts, but you still get the burst speeds, and shorts sprints out of the 6 core cpus..

 

as stated there are values in apple

 

* a simple and much more stable working enviroment, that a user based is trained in

* better scaling, windows still looks like crap when running high resolution screens

* WAY more honest about batterylife, than any other laptop i have had in my hands, they actually feel like a one day device

* my old 2009 unibody is still in working condition, even though my 4 year old threw juice in it as a 2 year old, and he is hammering away on it today.

* still not riddled by virusses, malware and other annoying elements you have to protect yourself against

 

and the software suite has elements to offer..

 

AND they still have a good looking laptop, even though i feel, the newer XPS like laptops, with high screen to body ratio actually looks better.

 

i don´t use apple devices other than my company phone, because android is just to unsafe as a company phone.

 

but if people want apple, then i am fine by it, why not. 

 

there are just enormous focus on them because they are apple, YES if you want a tank as a laptop you buy a thinkpad, but seriously plenty of other laptops have A LOT of issues, even the OVERPRICED razors, that linus loves, fun looking at that overview of how many have been repaired, of the ones he gave his staff.. that was as i remember it 80% and some more than once. 

 

That for me shows more issues that others.

 

I also really do respect Louis Rossman, and i agree with many of the points he makes on design issues, but having done electrical development in windmills, where lifetime is 25 years, and there are large flex and harsh salty enviroments, i do know that f.ex. hardmounting a part to a board, is way better for quality than a connector, even though you can exchange the component.

 

a SMT or HMT solution is just one failure point where every connector has between 3-5 failure points, and non springed connectors are even worse. HMT is the way to go, but nobody hole mounts parts anymore,since it is too expensive. 

[kpluck]

5 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

It's a fact: macs are a bad choice nowadays, and they were not that bad a few years ago.

"It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

[Chunchunmaru_]

That just means game developers just need to ship their own updated OpenAL library, so this barely changes something at all

[samcool55]

2 hours ago, williamcll said:

Aren't opengl compatible with vulkan? 

I think there's a bit of confusion here.

This is about openAL, not openGL.

OpenAL is meant for 3D audio stuff, it doesn't do graphics.

 

Tbh while 3D audio can be impressive, there's not that many interest in it and tbh I'm fine with that.

I mean, did we even see a single game with AMD TrueAudio?

We even got an update to TrueAudio Next and tbh i have no idea why. I can't think of anything that uses it...

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

because android is just to unsafe

Stop spreading false info pls:

Quote

Let's get this out of the way. Android as an operating system is very secure. It has multiple layers of protection to keep malware at bay, and it requires your specific permission to do almost anything that could lead to your data or the system being compromised.

https://lifehacker.com/how-secure-is-android-really-1446328680

 

As for the thermals debate my old dell 7720 was able to keep boosting above base clock for extended periods of time(several days)...

Edited June 4, 2019 by jagdtigger

[Hellion]

12 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

are they really... 

 

i fully agree with the keyboard, and when a laptop does not reach baseclock then we have an issue, but my 5530 dell office laptop does not hit turbo in longer sessions, my alienware i had to work a lot with throttlestop to get it working... and that is a 8+ pound laptop.

 

Laptop cases are just not for high performance parts, but you still get the burst speeds, and shorts sprints out of the 6 core cpus..

 

as stated there are values in apple

 

* a simple and much more stable working enviroment, that a user based is trained in

* better scaling, windows still looks like crap when running high resolution screens

* WAY more honest about batterylife, than any other laptop i have had in my hands, they actually feel like a one day device

* my old 2009 unibody is still in working condition, even though my 4 year old threw juice in it as a 2 year old, and he is hammering away on it today.

* still not riddled by virusses, malware and other annoying elements you have to protect yourself against

 

and the software suite has elements to offer..

 

AND they still have a good looking laptop, even though i feel, the newer XPS like laptops, with high screen to body ratio actually looks better.

 

i don´t use apple devices other than my company phone, because android is just to unsafe as a company phone.

 

but if people want apple, then i am fine by it, why not. 

 

there are just enormous focus on them because they are apple, YES if you want a tank as a laptop you buy a thinkpad, but seriously plenty of other laptops have A LOT of issues, even the OVERPRICED razors, that linus loves, fun looking at that overview of how many have been repaired, of the ones he gave his staff.. that was as i remember it 80% and some more than once. 

 

That for me shows more issues that others.

 

I also really do respect Louis Rossman, and i agree with many of the points he makes on design issues, but having done electrical development in windmills, where lifetime is 25 years, and there are large flex and harsh salty enviroments, i do know that f.ex. hardmounting a part to a board, is way better for quality than a connector, even though you can exchange the component.

 

a SMT or HMT solution is just one failure point where every connector has between 3-5 failure points, and non springed connectors are even worse. HMT is the way to go, but nobody hole mounts parts anymore,since it is too expensive. 

Apple tools gonna apple tool...

 

The "no malware" go-to is such an old and tired narrative at this point. Not to mention, software is only a small fraction of the greater picture which is the hardware it comes installed on. You know, the part that you actually pay for that can't achieve the performance it's designed/marketed as having due to apples incompetent "engineers" that prioritize form over function.

 

I've run some form of a Linux distro since 2011 and without ever having installed an antivirus have never had a single occurrence. I can even say the same for Windows back as far as the 95/98/2000/XP days as well. If you aren't an idiot literally looking for malware by downloading and running every single executable file on shady porn sites it's pretty hard to have a system be infected. Adblock of some kind will protect you from 99% of it.

 

 

 

[yian88]

I've moved completely out of retard x86 and windows linux nightmare.

I'm now full android, phone pocophone, tablet galaxy tab s4, and Xiaomi mini box android TV I feel better than ever and free.

If I'll ever need a work laptop I'll get an arm Mac when they release, x86 and its OS'es are dead for me. I despise windows and failed linux FOSS desktops.

Long live ARM Google and apple and Samsung.

[AlTech]

On 6/4/2019 at 3:49 AM, Drak3 said:

 

They're not removing it, just no longer updating it themselves.

Deprecation means their intent is to remove it in a future release and this is a warning from Apple to move to a newer API of whatever.

[Belgarathian]

On 6/4/2019 at 2:41 PM, gabrielcarvfer said:

Who even uses Macs these days? Thermals are abysmal, keyboard is garbage, no Magsafe, donglefest, deprecation of open standards mean more trouble for cross-platform developers, overpriced, etc, etc.

Sure but their aesthetics are to die for (subjectively) and MacOS is still my preferred OS by a long-shot, particularly with iOS integration.