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Discord ToS update revokes users' right to sue

abjd
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https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/

Quote

From the Discord API server:

Discord has changed their Terms of Service!

 

Unfortunately, this change comes with a revocation of your legal rights. Discord has revoked your right to sue (you must go through an arbitrator) and to congregate as a class action lawsuit.

Luckily, there is an opt-out for the clause, in which you must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com, but you must do it within 30 days or you can no longer opt-out.

 

YOU CANNOT DELETE OR DEACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT TO OPT-OUT OF THE ARBITRATION CLAUSE

 

You can see the added clauses for yourself here: https://gist.github.com/Rapptz/c93697c9d59ec2f0d8071b7d0e907632

I will attempt to answer some common questions.

 

Is this enforceable?

In the United States, yes. This was decided by the Supreme Court in 2011. See https://gc.gy/7538114

In Europe, no. There are many clauses, a relevant one is Article 77 of the GDPR ("Right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority").

 

Why does this matter?

Without the ability to congregate for a class action lawsuit, if Discord ever leaks your data or does something catastrophically bad to a large portion of the population you have no way to representatively sue together without each of you individually suing via the arbitrator.

Please see the following article: https://gc.gy/7538130

 

Essentially:

  1. Your right to file a complaint in the court of law is removed.

  2. The arbitration system tends to heavily favour the company rather than the consumer.

  3. Since your right to pool similar complaints together is taken away, the amount of damage you can do to a company that has wronged you significantly is limited to those who are willing to arbitrate.

 

Why should I care? Other companies do it too!

By learning about this I hope that you will be more conscious about these arbitration clauses and how anti-consumer they are. You can't change the past, but you surely can't predict the future either.


The top stickied comment to that thread is a staff reply, if you want to check that out. The gist of it is that it'll apparently protect them against frivolous lawsuits that law firms get rich off of.

I had my worries about Discord and was reminded of what Stallman says about discord here https://stallman.org/discord.html. One of the pages he also links to there speaks about the possibility of discord selling their data in the future, even though they claim not to at the moment. Perhaps behind the scenes they're preparing to protect themselves for something like this down the road.

One thing to note is that new accounts can opt-out 30 days after creation. Hopefully they'll add a notice about this in the account creation process in the future, or even better a yes/no dialog to make it easier.

[Edit] Turns out Discord's CEO apparently has a shady past in which he sold his previous social platform to a Japanese company without any notice to users. The company then harvested all the data and shut down the platform, but not before being hit with a class action lawsuit.

Source: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9peikv/in_light_of_the_tos_update_regarding_class_action/

[Edit] They changed it. The opt-out period is now 90 days and the arbitration clause now only applies to users within the US.


https://blog.discordapp.com/terms-of-service-feedback-and-changes-c58a530c7693

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Why does discord to make it pain to opt out? It should just be a option in client/interface.

 

This is why I never go on board discord.

Magical Pineapples


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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These are... discordious times

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Call it Discard then.

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So people with an existing account can't opt out? 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

So people with an existing account can't opt out? 

You have 30 days to do so

56 minutes ago, abjd said:

Luckily, there is an opt-out for the clause, in which you must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com, but you must do it within 30 days or you can no longer opt-out.

 

My Build, v2.1 --- CPU: i7-8700K @ 5.2GHz/1.288v || MoBo: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming || RAM: 4x4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 2666 14-14-14-33 || Cooler: Custom Loop || GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black, on water || PSU: EVGA G2 850W || Case: Corsair 450D || SSD: 850 Evo 250GB, Intel 660p 2TB || Storage: WD Blue 2TB || G502 & Glorious PCGR Fully Custom 80% Keyboard || MX34VQ, PG278Q, PB278Q

Audio --- Headphones: Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX || Amp: Schiit Audio Magni 3 || DAC: Schiit Audio Modi 3 || Mic: Blue Yeti

 

[Under Construction]

 

My Truck --- 2002 F-350 7.3 Powerstroke || 6-speed

My Car --- 2006 Mustang GT || 5-speed || BBK LTs, O/R X, MBRP Cat-back || BBK Lowering Springs, LCAs || 2007 GT500 wheels w/ 245s/285s

 

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As its not enforceable in Europe, is it any point opting out for Europeans?

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

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13 minutes ago, Mihle said:

As its not enforceable in Europe, is it any point opting out for Europeans?

id still do it as laws could change or maybe il move somewhere out of the EU so i think its still important to opt out. 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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I haven't looked into this thoroughly, but there are some things to note about the Discord EULA that make it seem that Discord is doing what software and service publishers routinely do, which is talk about of their ass and claim things that are not legally enforceable, relying on the daunting and intimidating impression that their EULA makes to ward off challenges before they occur.

 

10 hours ago, abjd said:

Discord ToS update revokes users' right to sue

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/

 

Unfortunately, this change comes with a revocation of your legal rights. Discord has revoked your right to sue (you must go through an arbitrator) and to congregate as a class action lawsuit.

 

Quote

 

Is this enforceable?

In the United States, yes. This was decided by the Supreme Court in 2011. See https://gc.gy/7538114

In Europe, no. There are many clauses, a relevant one is Article 77 of the GDPR ("Right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority").

 

 

 

I believe the US Supreme Court ruling doesn't allow companies to take away people's right to sue, but to sue as a class-action lawsuit, and that individual lawsuits may still be brought against companies that appeal to the US SC ruling for protection from class-action lawsuits.

 

Revoking the right to sue on an individual basis would sound to me like a liability waiver, and enforceability of liability waivers varies in the US from state to state, but, in general, liability waivers can absolve a company of your personal negligence and actions, and from reasonable equipment failure, but not from design and manufacturing defects that cause harm - such as an update that deleted personal data.

 

https://www.frickey.com/need-know-liability-waivers/

 

https://www.frickey.com/denver-personal-injury-lawyers/products-liability-lawyer/

 

A company cannot take away a person's right to legal justice. It just depends on what the right to legal justice is defined as being.

 

 

The Discord EULA says:

Quote

For residents outside the United States, arbitration shall be initiated in San Francisco, California.

For residents outside the United States, legal rights are established by the country which the resident is in, and Discord will be subject to that foreign country's laws if Discord makes its service available in that country. So, that part of the Discord EULA counts for nothing, it's a bluff. A person outside the USA can sue Discord in the country they reside in, and Discord will have to meet the lawsuit according to that non-US country's laws regarding lawsuits.

 

Also, EULAs are, for the most part, garbage without legal backing and can largely be ignored.

 

 

The Discord EULA says:

Quote

If any clause within this Arbitration Section is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that specific clause will be severed from this section, and the remainder of its provisions will be given full force and effect.

And that's the popular thing to add to EULAs these days. Most of what EULAs claim is false, bogus, and pointless in the face of actual laws. By writing the above claim in their EULAs, companies aim to keep claiming all the legally-indefensible things that they traditionally have been yet not get called out on it because they also claim 'anything that isn't valid doesn't negate whatever is valid'.

 

What Discord is saying by adding that phrase is that they know they are claiming things that aren't valid or enforceable in their EULA. But, they want to claim those things anyway to benefit from those claims' psychological effects upon uninformed readers, while mitigating the risk from those invalidly-claimed things undermining any possible validity to other parts of the EULA, since Discord hopes to use any potential scrap of validity in other parts of the EULA as their defences in future court cases.

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BACK TO TEAMSPEAK

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hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

Spoiler

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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1 hour ago, williamcll said:

BACK TO TEAMSPEAK

Ventrilo bro ?

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2 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

  Hide contents

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png

Thank you very much for the easy template, I've seen a fair number of copy-pasted warnings but nobody was including a simple email template to write to opt out.

 

I don't speak legalese and subsequently probably wouldst have been able to write my own email.

 

Once again, Thank you for your fantastic contribution.

Pellet Stove

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2 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png

off topic wait a minute, that area code is familiar ?:ph34r:

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:x@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie || Jake x Brendan :x
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If i opt out will this Delete my Discord account/Can i send that email without having my account Suspended/Deleted/Inaccesible?

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1 minute ago, Yun4xGaming said:

If i opt out will this Delete my Discord account/Can i send that email without having my account Suspended/Deleted/Inaccesible?

I don't think they can punish for that lol

a Moo Floof connoisseur and curator.

:x@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie || Jake x Brendan :x
Youtube Audio Normalization
 

 

 

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5 hours ago, EMC said:

Why does discord to make it pain to opt out? It should just be a option in client/interface.

 

This is why I never go on board discord.

You never go on discord because you predicted they would do this? You go lottery numbers too?

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1 hour ago, Pbr38 said:

Thank you very much for the easy template, I've seen a fair number of copy-pasted warnings but nobody was including a simple email template to write to opt out.

 

I don't speak legalese and subsequently probably wouldst have been able to write my own email.

 

Once again, Thank you for your fantastic contribution.

Thank someone from one of my discord that ripped it from someone off reddit :P

1 hour ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

off topic wait a minute, that area code is familiar ?:ph34r:

Ain't mine ;)

 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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Discord can screw off.

 

When I can afford to pay $10/month for a hosted Alternative then I will.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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