EU Competition Commisioner wants to force Apple and others to switch to USB-C industry standard for charging phones

[AlTech]

EU regulators are looking into whether there's a need to force phone manufacturers to adopt USB-C industry standard for phone charging.

 

This is part of the EU's move to cut down on waste and they want all phones to use the same connector to reduce the number of phone chargers thrown away each year.

 

This move could see Apple and every other Phone manufacturer be forced to use USB-C for phone charging. If this is the EU's intent then it may explain the rumours of the iPhone 2018 having USB-C charging.

 

Quote

For the better part of a decade, the EU has been pushing phone manufacturers to standardize the chargers they use in an effort to cut the amount of electronic waste they generate. Phones typically come with a charger, and customers often toss the old charger when they buy a new phone. Ideally, old chargers are recycled, but they often find their way into a landfill, with the EU claiming that some 51,000 tons of waste are generated each year. The EU's long-term goal is that phones and chargers should ultimately be bought separately, with one charger being retained across multiple phone generations.

 

 

Quote

In 2009, manufacturers including Apple, Samsung, and Nokia, signed a memorandum of understanding to say they would voluntarily standardize on the then-current micro-USB connector. For most hardware, this meant that the phone itself sported a USB connector, often with a USB Type-A connector on the charger brick itself. For Apple, it meant production of a micro-USB-to-Dock connector, as the company wanted to retain its proprietary ports.

Nowadays, most phones coming to market use USB Type-C connectors. Apple, however, remains an exception, preferring instead its proprietary Lightning connector to the industry standard.

However, regulators are unsatisfied with this voluntary approach. In response to a query about phone chargers, EU Commissioner for Competition Margrethe Vestager said, "Given the unsatisfactory progress with this voluntary approach, the Commission will shortly launch an impact assessment study to evaluate costs and benefits of different other options." The study will examine the current situation and look at ways in which problems could be addressed.

 

 

I applaud the potential outcome of this but I'm not necessarily sure that the problem they claim they are solving is actually the real problem that needs to be solved.

 

Anyhow, would love to see iPhones using USB-C so that people can share charging cables more freely.

 

Source:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/08/eu-taking-another-look-at-phone-chargers-because-theyre-still-not-standardized/

[DrMacintosh]

I doubt the EU is smart enough to realize that cables have two connectors on either end. 

 

If they mandate that the iPhone use USB-C, just put that on the wall end and get off on a technicality. 

 

10/10 strat. 

[AlTech]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

I doubt the EU is smart enough to realize that cables have two connectors on either end. 

 

If they mandate that the iPhone use USB-C, just put that on the wall end and get off on a technicality. 

 

10/10 strat. 

They could make the rules really specific and say you need both ends with USB (one being at least Type C) and the other USB (being either Type A or Type C)

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

They could make the rules really specific and say you need both ends with USB (one being at least Type C) and the other USB (being either Type A or Type C)

We’ll see if the EU is in touch enough with tech to realize that. Lol. 

 

Gimping everyone to having Type A and Type C would be freaking hilarious. 

[AlTech]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

We’ll see if the EU is in touch enough with tech to realize that. Lol. 

 

Gimping everyone to having Type A and Type C would be freaking hilarious. 

^^^

I'm surpised that we're not seeing more USB-C to USB-C charging cables.

 

Most USB-C phone charging cables are already using USB-A to USB-C.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

Most USB-C phone charging cables are already using USB-A to USB-C.

That’s freaking stupid if you ask me. 

 

Lighting to USB C by that logic would also be stupid but at least Type C and lighting are reversible and similar in size. 

 

I want Type A to be phased out fully. It’s too big \o/ 

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

That’s freaking stupid if you ask me. 

 

Lighting to USB C by that logic would also be stupid but at least Type C and lighting are reversible and similar in size. 

 

I want Type A to be phased out fully. It’s too big \o/ 

Not to mention that almost every USB-C charger ever made does not conform to the official USB-C Power Delivery specifications cos OEMs love to use their own specs for power.

 

1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

Type A on the phone end

Gotta plug in a USB Stick somehow /s

[Zodiark1593]

18 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I doubt the EU is smart enough to realize that cables have two connectors on either end. 

 

If they mandate that the iPhone use USB-C, just put that on the wall end and get off on a technicality. 

 

10/10 strat. 

Apple devices are extremely popular not to mention Apple is a Trillion dollar company now. Couldn't Apple just tell the EU to go "eff off"? Apple stuff is popular enough where people will probably be smuggling them in anyway if a sales ban were ever put in place.

[KrYpToCiD]

UE going again to adopt a stupid thing.....  I feel sick when I think about it...... I really think they sleep when they adopt some law and after a while they realize that they harmed themself and they are to scared to over-rule their own decision to keep a good image from the UE citizens.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Couldn't Apple just tell the EU to go "eff off"?

Physically yes. Idk how much wiggle room the EU would give Apple if they did try this law. 

 

I think it’s a stupid idea. They say a lot of cables get thrown out every year.....yeah, that’s not from people switching connector types! That’s just from people finally getting new cables and wanting to use them. Lol. 

[Quadriplegic]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Apple devices are extremely popular not to mention Apple is a Trillion dollar company now. Couldn't Apple just tell the EU to go "eff off"? Apple stuff is popular enough where people will probably be smuggling them in anyway if a sales ban were ever put in place.

Sure, Apple can do that, if they want a fine that has 9 zeros.

Also, Europe market is not as big as USA, but still should put a dent on their sales 
 

Quote

Apple shipped 10 million iPhones, a drop of 5.4 percent from a year ago, according to Canalys, which also noted that the iPhone X remained the single best-selling phone in Europe.

Anyway, f*** yes EU Competition Commisioner, f*** yes.

[mr moose]

They did this 2009, now they just want to update to usb USB C instead of type A at the charger or Micro at the phone.  If all the manufacturers are in agreeance like they were back then then there won't be a problem.  My personal issue doesn't seem to be an issue so its really a non-issue.

[Zodiark1593]

27 minutes ago, Quadriplegic said:

Sure, Apple can do that, if they want a fine that has 9 zeros.

Also, Europe market is not as big as USA, but still should put a dent on their sales 
 

Not paying the fine could also be an option for a company as powerful as Apple. Apple excecutives reside in America, so there'd be little in the way of pursuing criminal charges anyway.

 

Not that I'm rooting for either Apple or the EU tbh. I'm just really Interested in seeing the outcome of an unyielding corporate giant and a powerful government body duke it out in full force. As said before, Apple stuff is extremely popular (even in the EU), so a sales ban would undoubtedly be met with public backlash. 

[LAwLz]

40 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I doubt the EU is smart enough to realize that cables have two connectors on either end. 

 

If they mandate that the iPhone use USB-C, just put that on the wall end and get off on a technicality. 

 

10/10 strat. 

37 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

We’ll see if the EU is in touch enough with tech to realize that. Lol. 

 

Gimping everyone to having Type A and Type C would be freaking hilarious. 

I hope you're joking... But I am not sure.

 

Several years ago (almost a decade at this point), phone manufacturers signed a voluntary agreement to switch over to micro-USB for their devices. This was because at the time, basically everyone had their own charger standard and it produced a ton of waste. Even Apple agreed to it.

However, the EU is now realizing that it hasn't had as big of an effect as intended, partially because Apple's solution to complying was to just sell a lighting to USB adapter (and at the time, 30-pin dock to micro-USB as pointed-out by Ars, if you had read the article).

 

Believe it or not, but the people in EU aren't brain-dead morons who doesn't understand technology. The person in charge of this investigation into unifying phone chargers is the same person who worked on regulations for Galileo and the Copernicus Programme. Also, whenever these types of investigations are made external sources are contacted for advice and help. It's not a 60 year old guy sitting in a room throwing darts at which law to pass.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Apple devices are extremely popular not to mention Apple is a Trillion dollar company now. Couldn't Apple just tell the EU to go "eff off"? Apple stuff is popular enough where people will probably be smuggling them in anyway if a sales ban were ever put in place.

They could, but the European market has generated over 47 billion dollars in revenue for Apple so far this year alone. We're talking hundreds of billions of dollars lost for Apple if their devices were to be banned in Europe.

I really doubt Apple makes that much money from their Lighting licensing revenue. It's probably not even 1/100 of the profits from the EU market, so it would make no financial sense to not comply if it meant jeopardizing their second biggest revenue source (the first being Americas).

[Quadriplegic]

12 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Not paying the fine could also be an option for a company as powerful as Apple. Apple excecutives reside in America, so there'd be little in the way of pursuing criminal charges anyway.

 

Not that I'm rooting for either Apple or the EU tbh. I'm just really Interested in see ing the outcome of an unyielding corporate giant and a powerful government body duke it out in full force. As said before, Apple stuff is extremely popular (even in the EU), so a sales ban would undoubtedly be met with public backlash. 

Yeah, sure, they can ignore the fine if they want to lose $10+ billion quarterly revenue. But I can't imagine stockholders being very happy about that.

[Zodiark1593]

37 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I want Type A to be phased out fully. It’s too big \o/ 

Not sure I can agree with this entirely. The small size of USB-C could very well work against the user somewhat when it comes to mid and full size tower PCs. A recessed USB-C (with space enough for a thumb drive or similarly large device) port or two on the front panel of such large cases would facilitate ease of use, while still allowing USB-C to take over.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

The small size of USB-C could very well work against the user somewhat when it comes to mid and full size tower PCs. A recessed USB-C (with space enough for a thumb drive or similarly large device) port or two on the front panel of such large cases would facilitate ease of use, while still allowing USB-C to take over.

Not really sure I get where you are coming from. 

[DrMacintosh]

12 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

but the European market has generated over 47 billion dollars in revenue for Apple so far this year alone. We're talking hundreds of billions of dollars lost for Apple if their devices were to be banned in Europe.

And all the tax revenue that would be lost also gives Apple bargaining power. When you're that big, you get to make some of your own rules. 

[Dabombinable]

Or they could try to move companies to using far more durable magnetic connectors (which Apple stopped because lunacy)

[asus killer]

54 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I doubt the EU is smart enough to realize that cables have two connectors on either end. 

 

If they mandate that the iPhone use USB-C, just put that on the wall end and get off on a technicality. 

 

10/10 strat. 

you and the OP got it all wrong, this is an old thing, prior to USB C even, they don't care if it is USB C or USB GTX, they just want every company to use just one standard for the charger, to reduce electronic waste, not for the connection or the cable.

[Zodiark1593]

23 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not really sure I get where you are coming from. 

The small size of USB-C could make it difficult to actually use on larger tower cases. Throwing a thumb drive into a type-A port on my mid-tower is quick, and I hardly need glance down. While reversibility is an advantage, the small size may mean one has to look down to line up the port, making it slightly slower and slightly less convenient to use thumb drives. (I use them quite frequently myself). As one tends to lean over and reach downward to insert a drive with a typical tower case, even a few seconds savings helps.

 

(Applicable for desktops only) By recessing the USB-C port into the case somewhat (even just a few mm) , it should, theoretically, be easier guide a drive into a straight position by feel alone, and potentially even provide some protection from accidental bumps.

 

Though, the lack of standardization for the housing of the USB-C connector may preclude such an idea. May not be an issue with monolithic flash drives however, as the size seems to change little.

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, CUDAcores89 said:

The point is even if most people switch to USB type C, USB type A will always remain there, sitting in the background used by legacy devices. 

Those legacy devices have effectively 0 effect on the market though. A few niche organizations not updating to a more modern standard are not the deciding factor in what people use.

 

There will always be hold outs, that doesn't mean those hold outs are relevant. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

And all the tax revenue that would be lost also gives Apple bargaining power. When you're that big, you get to make some of your own rules. 

1) Apple has historically paid next to no tax because they use a lot of loopholes and other tactics. To be more precise, Apple paid 0.005% tax.

 

2) I don't think you realize how massive the EU is if you think Apple's taxes has bargaining powers over them.

In 2016, the EU had a "revenue" of over 144 billion euros. 

 

Like I said earlier, Apple's revenue in the EU has been 47 billion USD from Q1 to Q3 this year. That's about 40 billion euros.

 

 

Corporate tax rate in EU is 21.3% (as of 2018) and is on net profits .

I can't find specific numbers for Apple's net profit in the EU region, but from what I can tell it's usually around 1/5 of their total revenue.

So 40 / 5 = 8 billion euro in net profits.

 

21.3% of 8 billions is 1.704 billions.

 

Apple would therefore, assuming they actually paid proper taxes, generate maybe 2 billion dollars to the EU.

That's about 1.4%.

 

Who do you think has the most negotiation power?

Apple who is responsible for about 2% of the EU's revenue if they were actually paying taxes properly.

or:

The EU, who is responsible for something like 25% of Apple's revenue?

[Dabombinable]

57 minutes ago, CUDAcores89 said:

phasing out USB type A would probably take forever. It would be like trying to phase out the floppy disk. 

 

Now I know what you're thinking "who uses floppy disks anymore"?

 

Actually, a lot of people still use floppy disks. Large businesses and corporations that operate machines worth many millions of dollars use floppy disks where it isn't cost effective to replace said machines, as well as the US government. Just recently I had to use a floppy disk to update the bios on a server motherboard.

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/why-do-floppy-disks-still-exist-the-world-isnt-ready-to-move-on/

 

https://www.quora.com/Are-floppy-disks-still-used-why-or-why-not

 

https://blog.discogs.com/en/floppies-back-from-the-dead/

 

The point is even if most people switch to USB type C, USB type A will always remain there, sitting in the background used by legacy devices. 

 

I personally don't see the tech world as a whole transitioning from all USB type A to all USB type C until 12-15 years from now as a whole, and even then there will still be specialty equipment that will require it.

As I type this, there is a computer under my desk with a fully functioning floppy drive....

[Gealach]

I'm not sure I understand the general tone of these comments?

 

Sure, I understand you guys don't like governments making decisions that are traditionally made by companies, but in this case the outcome will be positive for us:

 

Lightning is already an inferior USB-C port. Having lightning for me is a pain in the ass because my console and laptop charge by USB C, but I need a seperate cable for my phone.

 

I don't understand how anyone could think that Lightning is better than USB C in any regard other than aesthetics.