Spectrum possibly losing rights to service New York State

[mynameisjuan]

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/26/17617792/spectrum-expand-braodband-network-fail-new-york-operations-charter-communications

 

 

Announced this afternoon was the possibility of Spectrum to lose rights to provide service in the state of New York. This is quite big not only for customers but local ISPs and competition. I being part of the local ISPs do have some input and concern of this.

 

Quote

Last month, the New York Public Service Commission ordered Charter to pay a $2 million fine and finish expanding its network, or else the merger between Spectrum and Time Warner could be revoked in New York. (In other states, the merger would continue to exist.) But one month later, Charter appears to still have fallen short of demands. According to a statement Charter gave the Albany-based Times Union this week, it has expanded to more than 61,000 homes since 2016, meaning it’s still less than halfway to the goal.

In 2016 there was a grant provided to multiple ISPs to expand their network out to the remote location throughout New York. It was a very ambitious plan requiring the expansion of 1000s of square miles. While Spectrum does have OSP (outside plant) dedicated to purely laying cable or fiber, the work force is not large enough to cover the territory requested. 

 

We are part of this grant as well I can attest to the amount of work we are putting in also Spectrum and the 3 other providers in the area. The work force is very low in this area in terms of hiring and retention and at times the people being dedicated need to be pulled off to work on emergency outages, delaying the grant. 

 

2 years for this grant was unreasonable for not just Spectrum but local ISPs as well needing to cover much less ground. 

 

Quote

In order to punish Charter, state officials are considering penalties, injunctive relief, additional sanctions, or banning Spectrum from being able to operate in New York State at all.

Punishments are TBD but there are local news sites suggesting 60 day period to sell their property along with a solution to slowly migrate people seemlessly to a new service. This was a huge shock to all of us in the area and we are unsure how this will workout or who will buy their property. I know for sure that all the available ISPs in the area will honestly not look at buying the property because of the scale of the grant and the cost of the employees. 

 

 

As a ISP network engineer in New York and personally see what goes on behind the scenes this news shocked me. New York state is not easy terrain to work with. A huge majority of home that this is supposed to target are in the Adirondack moutains. They want speed minimum of 25mbps to all customers and in order to provide it reliably construction has to be done on steep slopes with hard bedrock, some times running 15miles of cable for one customer. With cost underfunded and losing workers, this task is proving difficult for multiple ISPs. 

 

We have a solution we are working on and its wireless based. Testing did show good results but there are problems with the amount of trees and interference. Running fiber is already in progress but its taking a toll on the workers and sometimes extremely dangerous.

 

This is going to be interesting if Spectrum is going to be sold or just fined because it will change competition in our area dramatically. As for Spectrum, this is going to hurt because the amount of revenue made from New York city alone. 

 

[emosun]

oh dear , let me just shed a tear for an internet service provider

[Jarrad5x]

I was shocked by this. Living in upstate we don't get the greatest internet, but I normally don't have issues with it. I am on a local ISP (Finger Lakes). My father is on Spectrum, can only imagine how he feels.

[Worstcaster]

I'm on spectrum and it runs fine.  I'm in a rural area of the Catskills but am lucky enough to be on a main road.  There are people just a few miles away who can't get service.  This would have a huge impact on Spectrum's bottom line and lots of workers' jobs, so I suspect not much is going to happen until the lawsuits are done.  Spectrum will probably get a stay granted until the case can be heard at a minimum.

[Brooksie359]

50 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/26/17617792/spectrum-expand-braodband-network-fail-new-york-operations-charter-communications

 

 

Announced this afternoon was the possibility of Spectrum to lose rights to provide service in the state of New York. This is quite big not only for customers but local ISPs and competition. I being part of the local ISPs do have some input and concern of this.

 

In 2016 there was a grant provided to multiple ISPs to expand their network out to the remote location throughout New York. It was a very ambitious plan requiring the expansion of 1000s of square miles. While Spectrum does have OSP (outside plant) dedicated to purely laying cable or fiber, the work force is not large enough to cover the territory requested. 

 

We are part of this grant as well I can attest to the amount of work we are putting in also Spectrum and the 3 other providers in the area. The work force is very low in this area in terms of hiring and retention and at times the people being dedicated need to be pulled off to work on emergency outages, delaying the grant. 

 

2 years for this grant was unreasonable for not just Spectrum but local ISPs as well needing to cover much less ground. 

 

Punishments are TBD but there are local news sites suggesting 60 day period to sell their property along with a solution to slowly migrate people seemlessly to a new service. This was a huge shock to all of us in the area and we are unsure how this will workout or who will buy their property. I know for sure that all the available ISPs in the area will honestly not look at buying the property because of the scale of the grant and the cost of the employees. 

 

 

As a ISP network engineer in New York and personally see what goes on behind the scenes this news shocked me. New York state is not easy terrain to work with. A huge majority of home that this is supposed to target are in the Adirondack moutains. They want speed minimum of 25mbps to all customers and in order to provide it reliably construction has to be done on steep slopes with hard bedrock, some times running 15miles of cable for one customer. With cost underfunded and losing workers, this task is proving difficult for multiple ISPs. 

 

We have a solution we are working on and its wireless based. Testing did show good results but there are problems with the amount of trees and interference. Running fiber is already in progress but its taking a toll on the workers and sometimes extremely dangerous.

 

This is going to be interesting if Spectrum is going to be sold or just fined because it will change competition in our area dramatically. As for Spectrum, this is going to hurt because the amount of revenue made from New York city alone. 

 

Don't take the grant if you can't deliver. No reason to make an agreement you can't deliver on. 

[ARikozuM]

Just get the work done. You're a very large corporate entity that should be serving the populace with a service. Lack of competition or man-hour expense isn't an excuse when you supply more than a few states with internet and have been given more than a few grants for better infrastructure. 

[Lurick]

Update: Spectrum has been order to, in no uncertain terms, "Get the frack out!"

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/07/27/2020233/new-york-orders-charter-out-of-state

 

Quote

"The PSC said it is ordering Charter to sell the former TWC system that it purchased in New York, and it's 'bring[ing] an enforcement action in State Supreme Court to seek additional penalties for Charter's past failures and ongoing non-compliance," reports Ars. From the report:

 

Charter has repeatedly failed to meet deadlines for broadband expansions that were required in exchange for merger approval, state officials said. The PSC has steadily increased the pressure on Charter with fines and threats, but Charter never agreed to changes demanded by state officials. As a result of today's vote, "Charter is ordered to file within 60 days a plan with the Commission to ensure an orderly transition to a successor provider(s)," the PSC's announcement said. "During the transition process, Charter must continue to comply with all local franchises it holds in New York State and all obligations under the Public Service Law and the Commission regulations. Charter must ensure no interruption in service is experienced by customers, and, in the event that Charter does not do so, the Commission will take further steps, including seeking injunctive relief in Supreme Court in order to protect New York consumers."

 

[Cornontheecob]

Well internet is still a privilege not a right so i guess the customers in New York might get shafted on this one. Sounds like Spectrum along with the other ISP are trying to complete the expansion but like in most construction jobs delays happen, unforseen issues arise and manpower always lacks. 

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Cornontheecob said:

Well internet is still a privilege not a right so i guess the customers in New York might get shafted on this one. Sounds like Spectrum along with the other ISP are trying to complete the expansion but like in most construction jobs delays happen, unforseen issues arise and manpower always lacks. 

Charter had no intention of giving all of the rural area's internet. They figured they could say what ever they wanted, get the merger approved and have to pay a fine or something. But state governments are sick of the lies and the empty promises. Its not like those people will loose internet. Someone will take over Charters system when they are forced to leave. Hopeful other ISP's see this happening and stop making promises they cant keep. 

[Brehohn]

I personally work for Spectrum as one of their techs. Honestly, this sucks. They are going to penalize a company for not meeting a goal, for $2 million? New York seems to be asking for the impossible to happen. Why do they care so much? Spectrum can only TRY to sell people. They can't force them. No one else is going to want to buy what we leave behind there especially if they don't even work on hybrid fiber coax! Spectrum is currently ambitious and have been a much better company than Time Warner and Comcast BY FAR. I mean, we went from 50Meg to 100Meg for free and now 200Meg FOR FREE. Same pricing, higher speeds.

New York, don't do this. I feel like this is just for money and honestly, it's kind of pathetic. A company can only do as much as their budget allows.

[Donut417]

16 minutes ago, Brehohn said:

I personally work for Spectrum as one of their techs. Honestly, this sucks. They are going to penalize a company for not meeting a goal, for $2 million? New York seems to be asking for the impossible to happen. Why do they care so much? Spectrum can only TRY to sell people. They can't force them. No one else is going to want to buy what we leave behind there especially if they don't even work on hybrid fiber coax! Spectrum is currently ambitious and have been a much better company than Time Warner and Comcast BY FAR. I mean, we went from 50Meg to 100Meg for free and now 200Meg FOR FREE. Same pricing, higher speeds.

New York, don't do this. I feel like this is just for money and honestly, it's kind of pathetic. A company can only do as much as their budget allows.

First of all dont be talking shit about Comcast. They were one of the first cable co's to test Docsis 3.1 and start deploying it as well as one of the first major ISP's in the US to deploy IPv6. Also Comcast has giving free speed upgrades as well. 

 

This come down to Spectrum making promises it knew it couldn't keep. Just so they could grow bigger. They knew what New York's terms were. Why in the holy fuck did they agree to them? If I lie to the government I go to prison. They are just getting a fine and told to fuck off. Truthfully they are getting away pretty easily, its not like someone is going to prison for fibbing to the government. Maybe this will teach all ISP's not to make promises they cant keep! 

[Trik'Stari]

7 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Just get the work done. You're a very large corporate entity that should be serving the populace with a service. Lack of competition or man-hour expense isn't an excuse when you supply more than a few states with internet and have been given more than a few grants for better infrastructure. 

"But, but what about the share holders? What about the executive bonuses? WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE EXECUTIVE BONUSES?!"

[ARikozuM]

26 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

"But, but what about the share holders? What about the executive bonuses? WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE EXECUTIVE BONUSES?!"

Listen, I’ll take the millions and lay the lines with a damn shovel. Just tell me how deep and which direction.

[Brehohn]

9 hours ago, Donut417 said:

First of all dont be talking shit about Comcast. They were one of the first cable co's to test Docsis 3.1 and start deploying it as well as one of the first major ISP's in the US to deploy IPv6. Also Comcast has giving free speed upgrades as well. 

 

This come down to Spectrum making promises it knew it couldn't keep. Just so they could grow bigger. They knew what New York's terms were. Why in the holy fuck did they agree to them? If I lie to the government I go to prison. They are just getting a fine and told to fuck off. Truthfully they are getting away pretty easily, its not like someone is going to prison for fibbing to the government. Maybe this will teach all ISP's not to make promises they cant keep! 

So, limiting your customers to 1TB of data usage that A LOT of people can easily go over like us fellow gamers, isn't a bad tactic? Having a data limit on your customers and charging them a ridiculous amount after each gigabyte is horrible.

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, Brehohn said:

So, limiting your customers to 1TB of data usage that A LOT of people can easily go over like us fellow gamers, isn't a bad tactic? Having a data limit on your customers and charging them a ridiculous amount after each gigabyte is horrible.

Firstly your not charged for each Gigabyte. Its only $10 for every 50 Gigs you go over. I am a gamer and we are a home of cord cutters. With 3 people we only use 700 Gigs in a month. Also, Spectrum doesn't have caps because of an agreement with the FCC, once the 7 years are up, you better damn well believe they will put caps on their service. Also, the cap for Comcast is only in select area's. Basically where there is no competition. 

[2FA]

I hope NYS takes over TWCNY as a state utility, that way I could actually get some actually decent internet for once in my life.

[Commodus]

10 hours ago, Brehohn said:

I personally work for Spectrum as one of their techs. Honestly, this sucks. They are going to penalize a company for not meeting a goal, for $2 million? New York seems to be asking for the impossible to happen. Why do they care so much? Spectrum can only TRY to sell people. They can't force them. No one else is going to want to buy what we leave behind there especially if they don't even work on hybrid fiber coax! Spectrum is currently ambitious and have been a much better company than Time Warner and Comcast BY FAR. I mean, we went from 50Meg to 100Meg for free and now 200Meg FOR FREE. Same pricing, higher speeds.

New York, don't do this. I feel like this is just for money and honestly, it's kind of pathetic. A company can only do as much as their budget allows.

I sympathize with what this could mean for your job, but please don't defend the indefensible.

 

Charter agreed to multiple conditions as part of its merger (not just expanding coverage), and it not only repeatedly failed to meet those conditions, it purposefully obfuscated stats to avoid admitting that it wasn't on track.  This isn't a case of being overly optimistic; it's that Charter clearly wasn't interested in meeting the conditions and hoped it would just get a slap on the wrist.

 

Better speeds for existing money are great, but not if the company is fundamentally dishonest.  If you found that a generous friend was also a thief, would you ignore their thievery just because they treated you well?

[Stefan Payne]

Private owned companys don't tend to invest enough in Infrastructure.

State owned Companys don't tend to invest enough in new technology.

 

Its a no win scenario but for Infrastructure I'd prefer State Owned Companys.

Because they are only bureaucrats but not evil.

While private companys are evil... 

 

 

And fast Internet should be something as normal as Power coming to your house....

 

While I do kinda live in the Woods, I got 100MBit Down (25MBit Up I believe) a Couple of Months ago, up from 25MBit...

And I kinda remember the Days of the "Deutsche Post" being state owned as the Operator of the Telephone Lines where I live...

And well, in some Areas where I live, you have to wait for someone to die to get a Landline connection.

And that is the Problem with privately owned Companys...

 

 

You might see that I'm not the biggest fan of privately owned companys for hings of the daily need (Infrastructure like Phonelines, Powerlines)

[Brooksie359]

14 hours ago, Brehohn said:

I personally work for Spectrum as one of their techs. Honestly, this sucks. They are going to penalize a company for not meeting a goal, for $2 million? New York seems to be asking for the impossible to happen. Why do they care so much? Spectrum can only TRY to sell people. They can't force them. No one else is going to want to buy what we leave behind there especially if they don't even work on hybrid fiber coax! Spectrum is currently ambitious and have been a much better company than Time Warner and Comcast BY FAR. I mean, we went from 50Meg to 100Meg for free and now 200Meg FOR FREE. Same pricing, higher speeds.

New York, don't do this. I feel like this is just for money and honestly, it's kind of pathetic. A company can only do as much as their budget allows.

If I give someone money to fix my car in a week and they agree and take my money knowing that they can't actually do that. Yeah they deserved to have repercussions. They took the state's money knowing they wouldn't be able to fulfill their end of the bargain which is not ok. If they knew they couldn't do it then they shouldn't have agreed to it. This has happened so many times with isps where they agree to do things that are way out of the range of what they were actually accomplished either through not trying or being too difficult. Either way the end result is them getting money and the government getting shafted on their end of the bargain. 

[mynameisjuan]

On 7/27/2018 at 4:57 PM, emosun said:

oh dear , let me just shed a tear for an internet service provider

This will have a big impact. No one (at least in this area) will purchase the property. Coax is dead, fiber is the only way to go

On 7/27/2018 at 5:15 PM, Jarrad5x said:

I was shocked by this. Living in upstate we don't get the greatest internet, but I normally don't have issues with it. I am on a local ISP (Finger Lakes). My father is on Spectrum, can only imagine how he feels.

If I hear anything I will keep updates here. He wont have to worry about losing internet, but how its going to be handled will be a mess.

On 7/27/2018 at 5:29 PM, Worstcaster said:

I'm on spectrum and it runs fine.  I'm in a rural area of the Catskills but am lucky enough to be on a main road.  There are people just a few miles away who can't get service.  This would have a huge impact on Spectrum's bottom line and lots of workers' jobs, so I suspect not much is going to happen until the lawsuits are done.  Spectrum will probably get a stay granted until the case can be heard at a minimum.

A lot of jobs will be at stake. I dont see how they can be forced out. Komo is a moron and the point of his grant was getting internet to everyone and increasing jobs...the opposite of what this was supposed to do. 

On 7/27/2018 at 5:30 PM, Brooksie359 said:

Don't take the grant if you can't deliver. No reason to make an agreement you can't deliver on. 

 

On 7/27/2018 at 5:45 PM, ARikozuM said:

Just get the work done. You're a very large corporate entity that should be serving the populace with a service. Lack of competition or man-hour expense isn't an excuse when you supply more than a few states with internet and have been given more than a few grants for better infrastructure. 

You two never read my quotes I see. This wasnt an optional grant, Komo the moron mandated it requiring ever person in New York state to have a minimum of 25mbps and the project was supported by a grant. All ISPs in the area got a grant. Spectrum doesnt have lack of competition, right now in our area we are pretty split down the middle in terms of customers. This delay is the cause of lack of outside plant. No one is looking to work at an ISP even though starting pay is around $25/hr completely green. Spectrum is short and so is ALL ISPs in this area. 

 

On 7/27/2018 at 7:05 PM, Cornontheecob said:

Well internet is still a privilege not a right so i guess the customers in New York might get shafted on this one. Sounds like Spectrum along with the other ISP are trying to complete the expansion but like in most construction jobs delays happen, unforseen issues arise and manpower always lacks. 

Low man power is the main cause along with the amount of emergency outages. Winds and weather have wrecked a lot of infrastructure this year, fiber cuts, power surges, power loss. During these times people dedicated to work on the grant need to be migrated. Add to it that the parts where this grant is expanding to are 1,2,3 hours+ to get to....yeah its rough for everyone. 

[mynameisjuan]

On 7/27/2018 at 11:58 PM, Donut417 said:

Charter had no intention of giving all of the rural area's internet. They figured they could say what ever they wanted, get the merger approved and have to pay a fine or something. But state governments are sick of the lies and the empty promises. Its not like those people will loose internet. Someone will take over Charters system when they are forced to leave. Hopeful other ISP's see this happening and stop making promises they cant keep. 

Thats not what it was about at all. Komo mandated that every person in the state is required to have 25mbps minimum more recently just to add on to the merger grant. It was fucking retarded and everyone knew it especially in the 1 1/2 year time span he gave us. This means even people in the adirondacks that are 25 miles down a dirt road in the fucking mountains. The man power to run that line is no simple task and combine that with shortage of man power....yeah no fucking way. 

 

But as for who will take over Spectrum. Not a clue. No ISP in our area would touch it because its not fiber. No local ISP could afford the truck rolls associated with COAX and the shit platform it is. 

[mynameisjuan]

23 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Listen, I’ll take the millions and lay the lines with a damn shovel. Just tell me how deep and which direction.

1,400 to be exact. I mean you think its so easy, better get started bud.

[mynameisjuan]

15 hours ago, Brehohn said:

So, limiting your customers to 1TB of data usage that A LOT of people can easily go over like us fellow gamers, isn't a bad tactic? Having a data limit on your customers and charging them a ridiculous amount after each gigabyte is horrible.

Very few people come close to 1TB. 

[mynameisjuan]

14 hours ago, 2FA said:

I hope NYS takes over TWCNY as a state utility, that way I could actually get some actually decent internet for once in my life.

Hah, you think the state taking over will fix that? I thought people were up in arms about net neutrality but now lets give the government literally direct access to your connection.

[Zodiark1593]

3 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Very few people come close to 1TB. 

Best not to underestimate the requirements of 4K video streaming in a multi-person household.