Nvidia allegedly threatened Kyle Bennett(HardOCP) with blacklisting over GPP

[Misanthrope]

1 hour ago, Kamjam21xx said:

 It all makes sense, thats the way the evidence leans, it doesnt make it fact... but youd be ignorant to not extremely favor the idea that every shady thing theyve been acused of is true.

What evidence? has anybody actually published the contents of the GPP or gone on record to officially discuss it?

 

You're just assuming

 

1) It actually exists

2) Its content explicitly and forcefully want to control other vendors' brands

 

Entirely because you have seen the result this conjecture suggested. You haven't actually seen any evidence at all that the GPP specifically says they can't use their gaming branding on non Nvidia products or they lose benefits like Nvidia marketing share and premium access to manufacturing, etc.

 

All that we know is the end result and it was strongly implied that this was all due to a recent change by Nvidia by pushing this partnership.

 

In reality, unless we actually read the contents of the GPP we actually don't know how bad that agreement truly was, if it actually made any significant and probably illegal requests of partners, etc.

 

This is because Nvidia is entirely capable of obtaining the same result by other means altogether including cultivating long standing business relationships with partners convincing them without cohersion that is in their best interest to support their clearly and almost overwhelmingly stronger position as a market leader for far too many years now. We might even find out that the terms of the GPP are actually not that strict at all but merely positively reinforces what Nvidia perceives as valued partners without punishing those who do not follow it, basically presenting an actually convincing case to Asus about why it's in their best interest to drop AMD from their ROG lineup and use separate branding.

 

Just you saying "the evidence" doesn't means that any of this is factually based at all. My probably terrible explanations in your eyes have as much validity as your assumptions of taking the GPP rumors at face value because nobody that has read it is willing to share or go on the record about the GPP.

 

You might think I am nitpicking but I think it's important to point out that GPP is mostly a conspiracy theory encouraged by AMD or people with an AMD bias at the very least. It has nothing to do with evidence.

[Razor01]

1 hour ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Thats good old every day nvidia. 

 

It must all be true, given their actions.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc, must be a duck.

 

 

Right

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-bans-asrock-from-entering-european-gpu-market

 

Quote

 

The manufacturer has reached out to Tom’s Hardware to ask how the sample for their review was obtained because clearly, it wasn’t provided by ASRock, who had no interest in marketing exposure in Germany (the review was posted on German TH’s website).

ASRock Sales Manager:

The problem is that AMD has not agreed to sell (ASRock graphics cards) in EU, that is really a pity.

 

So its ok for AMD to force their AIB's into segmentation?

Then you have the recent example of [H] getting blacklisted from AMD GPU samples after their Polaris and inside AMD/RTG article

 

You really need to understand both these companies work the same way when they are capable of doing so.

[Humbug]

24 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

But even more in the long term it seems useless. They couldn't seriously expect to totally push amd out of the gpu market for good. And while they were winning with a better high end product on the gaming market already why pull something like this? They could maybe get some of amds share but nothing that would seem to warrant this full blown assault. Unless they are afraid of being outclassed in the high-end in the future? (Don;t really believe that's gonna happen anytime soon honestly).

i have already explained.  Good strategic move. Think long term. Nobody knows who will be on top in the GPU market in 4 years. And besides one company being on top overall doesn't prevent the other from having a superior product in certain market segments. Even if Nvidia is on top there is always a sizeable portion who buy AMD so any advantage is welcome to grab some of that share.

 

It's not always about killing AMD, but Nvidia wants to give themselves the best chance of being able to continually sell their products at the best possible margins with strong branding even in the future. On one end they attack this problem via technological innovation, and on the other end they attack it via marketing avenues like GPP.

 

The 'full blown assault' as you call it... Well it was the best possible time to do it since the AIBs had no negotiating power. But maybe Nvidia did not perceive it as a full blown assault, so it would have seemed a logical step. Some papers signed in back room deals and business goes on, they never thought of having to discuss it in the media. But in light of it blowing up in the press and creating a consumer backlash it quickly got to the point where it was not worth it so they cancelled it... 

[NumLock21]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

Right

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-bans-asrock-from-entering-european-gpu-market

 

So its ok for AMD to force their AIB's into segmentation?

There is a difference between this and gpp. 

[Razor01]

3 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

There is a difference between this and gpp. 

yeah then when they talk about of choice and when an AIB wants to go into a region but can't?  Is that choice?

 

How about when AMD blacklisted [H] over the inside RTG problems, and Polaris?  Think [H] called Polaris a Polished Turd that was from Kyle's mouth. 

 

Look man you guys can try to dress this up but both companies behave the same way when they can.

 

This is business, Kyle has a tendency to over step his bounds, now he must face the retaliation.  If his site was in trouble before, he should have been smart about it and not make his "opinions" the center of the article.  Yeah too much of his article was based on "crux of the problem" and that wasn't even the issue of GPP.

[Kamjam21xx]

Denial, just look at the evidence. I cant take you guys seriously when you just ignore evidence and act like it doesnt even exist.

 

Im talking about this and the entire gpp thing.

[Deus Voltage]

10 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

yeah then when they talk about of choice and when an AIB wants to go into a region but can't?  Is that choice?

 

How about when AMD blacklisted [H] over the inside RTG problems, and Polaris?  Think [H] called Polaris a Polished Turd that was from Kyle's mouth. 

 

Look man you guys can try to dress this up but both companies behave the same way when they can.

 

This is business, Kyle has a tendency to over step his bounds, now he must face the retaliation.  If his site was in trouble before, he should have been smart about it and not make his "opinions" the center of the article.  Yeah too much of his article was based on "crux of the problem" and that wasn't even the issue of GPP.

2 things:

 

-Your views are highly elitist, narrow and by extension dismissive.  

 

-I expected you to avoid becoming implicated in the "whataboutism" mode of discourse.

 

The usage of the sentence "over step his bounds" is highly revealing and sobering. I heard similar arguments from pundits arguing against Hitchens for criticizing Mother Theresa. Similar arguments against Noam Chomsky for criticizing US foreign policy and public officials. Indeed, similar arguments against law abiding citizens criticizing tyrannical governments such as that of Mao, Stalin ect.

 

"He must face retaliation" is a highly questionable statement ethically speaking as well. No different than saying "He dares questions us! make him pay!". There is an element of barbarism within that statement which I hope you will be able to recognize and rectify through proper judgment. 

 

I take no pleasure in making such harsh comments, but as a media analyst I cannot help but point out the ethical deficiencies whenever I see them come to light, irrespective of the legal framework used as disguise to argue for or against a subject matter. 

 

Lastly, did AMD implicate itself just as deeply as Nvidia with how they treated Steve from GN? Yes they did, and I expect equal level of scrutiny to be focalized on them. However, you would be missing the point entirely. Nvidia has erred, they have admitted so, a free pass will no be granted because others have erred as well.  

[D13H4RD]

Think about this. 

 

If AMD did something similar (which they have with GM), we will rightfully criticize them for it. 

 

Except this isn't about AMD. It's about NVIDIA. They royally messed up with the GPP fiasco and we will criticize them. 

[Razor01]

13 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

2 things:

 

-Your views are highly elitist, narrow and by extension dismissive.  

 

-I expected you to avoid becoming implicated in the "whataboutism" mode of discourse.

 

The usage of the sentence "over step his bounds" is highly revealing and sobering. I heard similar arguments from pundits arguing against Hitchens for criticizing Mother Theresa. Similar arguments against Noam Chomsky for criticizing US foreign policy and public officials. Indeed, similar arguments against law abiding citizens criticizing tyrannical governments such as that of Mao, Stalin ect.

 

"He must face retaliation" is a highly questionable statement ethically speaking as well. No different than saying "He dares questions us! make him pay!". There is an element of barbarism within that statement which I hope you will be able to recognize and rectify through proper judgment. 

 

I take no pleasure in making such harsh comments, but as a media analyst I cannot help but point out the ethical deficiencies whenever I see them come to light, irrespective of the legal framework used as disguise to argue for or against a subject matter. 

 

Lastly, did AMD implicate itself just as deeply as Nvidia with how they treated Steve from GN? Yes they did, and I expect equal level of scrutiny to be focalized on them. However, you would be missing the point entirely. Nvidia has erred, they have admitted so, a free pass will no be granted because others have erred as well.  

 

Reporters have the obligation to tell the truth, not their opinions based on the truth that raise emotional conflict to sway public opinion.

 

Is that enough for you?

 

Or is that something you don't understand and think that is elitist?

 

Yeah I agree its not ethical for this type of retribution, but it will happen, we have seen it thousands of times in every industry. If Kyle feels wronged by it, save up his money and do a lawsuit.  Obviously the AIB's will be on his side now right?  You are saying nV erred that also gives [H] backing, right?

 

Look you can't have it both ways.  Just because one side did something wrong, and now the other side is doing something wrong, both are damn wrong.

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/05/27/from_ati_to_amd_back_journey_in_futility

 

Quote

Let’s start with where we are currently. Full disclosure - HardOCP was not invited to this weekend’s launch in Macau as AMD PR has made a decision to no longer brief this site with the rest of the industry. That’s well within AMD’s rights to do, but that is telling as well.

 

Why not just talk about [H] they got blacklisted by AMD for this article. 

 

Quote

Now, I am sure AMD will take every step possible to mitigate this gap but the simple reality of the situation as it stands today is that AMD has a loser on its hands and are going to have to pull every trick in the book to spit-shine the turds, and the fact of the matter is pricing is how you do that. All is definitely not fine in Radeon-land these days.

This is him talking about Polaris.

When you go out of your way to use emotion which was clearly what his intent was, you have to expect the retribution.

[dizmo]

Unfortunate that his forum(?) will go under... But honestly if you can't afford to buy your own review samples of a few cards, there's a bigger issue with your site. 

2 hours ago, TOMPPIX said:

i think we should stop listening to people that get free review samples.

Why? There's plenty of people that give fair reviews. Just avoid new channels that might be enamoured with such things. 

[Space Reptile]

Quote

 it is likely this will put an end to HardOCP

oh CMON now , that is just being dramatic 

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

Unfortunate that his forum(?) will go under... But honestly if you can't afford to buy your own review samples of a few cards, there's a bigger issue with your site. 

Why? There's plenty of people that give fair reviews. Just avoid new channels that might be enamoured with such things. 

 

 

Its not that, he is saying all his advertising will get pulled

[Humbug]

1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

This only reinforces what was said on the WAN show...

Nvidia had plenty of opportunity to be transparent with the public and explain what GPP entailed if it wasn't as bad as what people made it out to be.

It was funny the way that Nvidia declared they had 'moved on' from this story. Nice try... then a few weeks later this.

 

Their refusal to do so, discreetly ending the program, and threatening Kyle instead of offering clarification, all points to the fact that GPP is in fact an illicit move.

There are two possible reasons they had cancelled the program

(1) the backlash, the bad PR and media attention, the damage to their brand etc is just not worth it compared to the benefits of the GPP

(2) they feared legal consequences

 

We really have no way of telling right now which one it was.

Maybe no.2 wasn't a major factor but rather the market saw it as unethical so no.1 could have been a big factor... difficult to tell from outside.

[D13H4RD]

If all that has been said ends up to be the clear cut truth, NVIDIA is really fanning the flames. 

 

I shouldn't expect much ethical behavior from corporations (as this is an unfair world we live in) but I'm entirely unsure just how NVIDIA did their cost vs benefit analysis on this one. Did they ever count the possibility of a potential whistle-blower? I would reckon that any decent CvB analysis would include such risks and a calculation of how likely it is. If they did indeed to a CvB analysis for the GPP, then the risk they calculated for a potential whistle-blower would probably be very low. 

[Nicnac]

54 minutes ago, Humbug said:

snip

yea I guess I see your point, there is definitely a logical plan behind it. To me it just seemed an unnecessarily aggressive tactic when they didn't really have to...

[Deus Voltage]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

Reporters have the obligation to tell the truth, not their opinions based on the truth that raise emotional conflict to sway public opinion..

With a categorical caveat, being the resources within a reporter's disposal. Furthermore, Kyle's actions are, in my view, based on healthy skepticism, due to the lack of communication between AIB's and media outlets. Any reasonable journalist would immoderately see the red flags, but not any would intervene, because advertisement money, the almighty machine that preserves the "capillary functioning" (Foucault) of media outlets is at stake.

 

Kyle payed a heavy price for being skeptical and equally transparent. There is, to quote Edward Hersch, an "element of catastrophism" at play.

 

Until we reach a state where journalists are, to quote Homi Bhabha, "able to entertain difference without an assumed or imposed hierarchy", we cannot truly engage in healthy skepticism and by extension criticism. 

[Razor01]

3 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

With a categorical caveat, being the resources within a reporter's disposal. Furthermore, Kyle's actions are, in my view, based on healthy skepticism, due to the lack of communication between AIB's and media outlets. Any reasonable journalist would immoderately see the red flags, but not any would intervene, because advertisement money, the almighty machine that preserves the "capillary functioning" (Foucault) of media outlets is at stake.

 

Kyle payed a heavy price for being skeptical and equally transparent. There is, to quote Edward Hersch, an "element of catastrophism" at play.

 

Until we reach a state where journalists are, to quote Homi Bhabha, "able to entertain difference without an assumed or imposed hierarchy", we cannot truly engage in healthy skepticism and by extension criticism. 

He has the damn contract, the AIB's don't need to say anything anymore lol

 

Oh my god, confirmation is right in the contract.  Kyle already has the evidence to know everything, he doesn't need AIB's to talk to him.  He doesn't need nV to talk to him.

 

He probably embellishing to the point it doesn't even make sense.

 

We already know his crux of the problem wasn't the crux.  He stated that AMD couldn't get another gaming brand under the Asus brand.  Which was not the case.

 

When talking about half truths, they are lies correct?  This is less than half truths since his article talks about winks and nods too.  Come on, really, going to go so far as to write an opinion about what they will be thinking in the spur of the moment now?  That isn't journalism, that is making things up.

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Its not that, he is saying all his advertising will get pulled

Uh... 

Quote

As for AIBs, we are not into new video card season yet, but I would guess that it is very possible that NVIDIA will forbid them from sampling HardOCP with NV GPU cards.

[D13H4RD]

7 minutes ago, Humbug said:

There are two possible reasons they had cancelled the program

(1) the backlash, the bad PR and media attention, the damage to their brand etc is just not worth it compared to the benefits of the GPP

(2) they feared legal consequences

 

We really have no way of telling right now which one it was.

Maybe no.2 wasn't a major factor but rather the market saw it as unethical so no.1 could have been a big factor... difficult to tell from outside.

I think it's a bit of both.

 

NVIDIA obviously can't blurt out everything clearly because it would open the floodgates for lawsuits and further damage to their reputation and long term profit. 

 

Canceling the GPP without any further mention apart from a PR statement was seen to them as the less costly of the potential decisions they could make. Yeah, we can laugh at how NVIDIA chose to cancel it instead of "battling misinformation", but the truth is, this usually means that they did a cuck and chose a move that won't affect the company as much. 

[Razor01]

Just now, dizmo said:

Uh... 

For his site to get shut down, its not from the sample allocation issue.

[Deus Voltage]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

He has the damn contract, the AIB's don't need to say anything anymore lol

 

Quote from original article:

 

"NVIDIA has not returned our request for the list of companies that will be involved in its GeForce Partner Program."

[Razor01]

2 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

 

Quote from original article:

 

"NVIDIA has not returned our request for the list of companies that will be involved in its GeForce Partner Program."

It doesn't matter, he has the contract lol, He doesn't need confirmation from anyone lol.  If he was so bold in saying those statements, he should be bold enough to show his viewers more.  Not just one sentence that was taken out of context.  I'm not saying the whole contract but more pieces.  He rationality was to protect his sources, so just pick stuff out carefully.  But now who is going to protect him?

 

We already know the big 3 multi IHV AIB's signed, we know it, and he needs confirmation on that?

[Deus Voltage]

4 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

It doesn't matter, he has the contract lol, He doesn't need confirmation from anyone lol.  If he was so bold in saying those statements, he should be bold enough to show his viewers more.  Not just one sentence that was taken out of context.

Of course it matters. Having a piece of paper equates to nothing for a journalist if it is not corroborated by the appropriate sources. It is like Alex Jones holding a piece of paper stating that his CIA sources confirm the presence of lizards in the Whitehouse. Until sources are double, triple and quadruple checked and corroborated, Kyle is at the mercy of Nvidia.

[dizmo]

11 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

For his site to get shut down, its not from the sample allocation issue.

You're kind of naive if you don't think they're tied. What does he get traffic from? Reviews. No Nvidia reviews? Less traffic, this even the ads he does have get fewer clicks. 

[Razor01]

7 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You're kind of naive if you don't think they're tied. What does he get traffic from? Reviews. No Nvidia reviews? Less traffic, this even the ads he does have get fewer clicks. 

 

He can buy his own cards, he has done that in the past