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Tesla Hit With a $2 Billion Lawsuit for Allegedly Stealing Nikola's Hydrogen Truck Design

avg123
By avg123
in Tech News
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Posted
2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That's how it works doesn't it?

Legal man says no.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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Posted

Wow a semi looks like another semi who would have guessed. Optimal aerodynamics and utilization of space lead to similar designs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Wow a semi looks like another semi who would have guessed. Optimal aerodynamics and utilization of space lead to similar designs

This is exactly what happens with F1(a racing event) all the cards are developed in secret but all look almost the same. When you say too a computer, we need a vehicle x specific size and x specific power at the best it can be, the computers are going too come up with the same basic shape. Then its logical to make the door in the middle, the lights at he front, the windscreen too match that shape as best possible. etc etc 

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51 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Yep. Both have 4 wheels... no... 6? No. BOTH HAVE WHEELS! Best nuke it from orbit just to be safe, and award myself twelfty billion dollars for how good I am at LAWz and protecting the rights of good old fat walleted corrupt businesses. :)

 

We can patent doors being in the middle of something? And I thought I was the one being stupid in this thread. :(

Well the part I think is dumber is the wrap windshield part. How is that a patent. How could you patent a windshield that just continues through to the door seeminglessly. That is just plain stupid 

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Irony :D

 

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Of course aerodynamic efficients fuselage \ windshield on a semi-trucks will all end up looking the same... Honestly i could look at Peterbilt, Kenworth and Volvo based on the same images and say that they could be suing each other based on that.

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The title of the thread is somewhat misleading because Tesla aren't exactly being sued because the trucks look similar. They are being sued because:

Quote

Nikola designed the wrap windshield, a unique feature in the trucking industry. The design is identifiable from a distance. The wrap windshield provides drivers an unobstructed view of the road. Tesla copied the wrap windshield, and advertised the view drivers had in its vehicle.

 

The fuselage has an aerodynamic look that is a continuous line from the front of the vehicle through the roof. The patented design is unique in the trucking industry. The Nikola One has a drag coefficient of around 0.37. Similarly, the Tesla truck has a drag coefficient of around 0.36. Tesla has advertised the aerodynamic design of its vehicle.

 

Nikola designed a mid-entry door, another first in the trucking industry. The door gave the driver access to the cab without any obstacles in the driver’s way. Tesla’struck has a mid-entry door, and Tesla advertised the ease of access of its vehicle.

 

Nikola’s front fender is distinct. Tesla’s front fender copies the fender design.

 

Tesla’s overall semi design copies Nikola’s patented design.

 

Here is another pictures of the two trucks, taken from the lawsuit itself.

image.png.f927e8ec29addc3f20aa8628da6a6623.png

 

 

Like I said earlier, if Apple could win the lawsuit against Samsung, then I don't have any problem imagining Nikola winning against Tesla.

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So a startup is suing for $2 billion while, they have none of their products out there on the road. Looks like they won't "startup" anymore after they get countersue, and all them lawyer fees.

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I'm suing whoever makes the Camaro for having a similar drag coefficient to the Mustang! 

 

Also, Plato should sue everyone for trying to come up with perfect forms. 

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1 hour ago, Ben Quigley said:

This is exactly what happens with F1(a racing event) all the cards are developed in secret but all look almost the same. When you say too a computer, we need a vehicle x specific size and x specific power at the best it can be, the computers are going too come up with the same basic shape.

Sometimes. Then again, sometimes...

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/mclaren-f1-team-fined-100-million-disqualified-2007-season

 

1 hour ago, Blackie Sheen said:

Well the part I think is dumber is the wrap windshield part. How is that a patent. How could you patent a windshield that just continues through to the door seeminglessly. That is just plain stupid 

Have you followed the Apple vs. Samsung patent wars?

 

37 minutes ago, Tribalinius said:

Of course aerodynamic efficients fuselage \ windshield on a semi-trucks will all end up looking the same...

Again, people, stop the "look the same" nonsense: Nikola isn't suing based on "we've seen a picture and they look the same". Just because that's the most effort anyone is willing to do in a forum (understandably), it doesn't mean that that's how a legal case was built, whether substantiated or not.

 

They are suing over specific patents. That has two parts: 1) whether it was reasonable to grant the patents they filed for, about which you may have your own opinion; 2) whether the patents, once granted, were infringed, for which the court must take the existing patents as given, and focus on whether something Tesla did violates any of the patent in a meaningful manner.

 

If I had filed a patent for a display notch a couple of years ago, and got it through, my patent-trolling lawsuit would be a little bit more intricate than "of course phones look the same..."

 

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3 hours ago, asus killer said:

this is not a question of aesthetics, Nikola made innovations and patented them for functional reasons. I'm sure the patents have to state the reasons. All of the 3 mentioned (mid-entry door, fuselage, and wrap windshield) were clearly copied by Tesla, at least it looks so.

If they accepted those patents they Nikola can sue. That's why people have patents.

 

If it were just for the aesthetics i think it would be copyright infringement, not patents.

thanks for being the only one on the first page to actually say something clever. The others seem blinded by "tesla" and "musk" and "design"

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3 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Nikola unveiled their Nikola One truck in December 2016. Tesla first talked about its truck in July 2016.

 

That doesn't prove Nikola's patents are invalid due to prior art, but it's at least enough to be pretty sceptical of their claims.

Last time I checked, it takes a lot longer than 7 months to have a vehicle go from concept sketch to fully operational prototype. 

29 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The title of the thread is somewhat misleading because Tesla aren't exactly being sued because the trucks look similar. They are being sued because:

 

Here is another pictures of the two trucks, taken from the lawsuit itself.

image.png.f927e8ec29addc3f20aa8628da6a6623.png

 

 

Like I said earlier, if Apple could win the lawsuit against Samsung, then I don't have any problem imagining Nikola winning against Tesla.

See, the wrap around windshield isn't new to vehicles. It's been used in larger vehicles like motorhomes for decades. If they can patent it for this, the patent system is more broken then I thought.

 

I don't see how the fuselage is any different than semis that have the same basic design. Patenting where you can put a door is equally retarded. 

 

As for advertising the benefits, obviously. Why wouldn't you? 

 

If this stands, this is just proof that the advancement of mankind is being severely limited by patents that are a little too overreaching. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Spotty said:

An automotive company called Nikola that specialises in electric vehicles is suing an automotive company that specialises in electric vehicles called Tesla for copying their ideas.
Anyone elses head hurt?

As long as the second company isn't named Edison everything is fine. ;-)

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Posted
1 minute ago, anotherriddle said:

As long as the second company isn't named Edison everything is fine. ;-)

Haven't you heard? Edison Electronics went out of business after they were sued by Thomas Electronics for infringing on patented designs. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, dizmo said:

See, the wrap around windshield isn't new to vehicles. It's been used in larger vehicles like motorhomes for decades. If they can patent it for this, the patent system is more broken then I thought.

 

I don't see how the fuselage is any different than semis that have the same basic design. Patenting where you can put a door is equally retarded. 

 

As for advertising the benefits, obviously. Why wouldn't you? 

 

If this stands, this is just proof that the advancement of mankind is being severely limited by patents that are a little too overreaching. 

I cannot agree more. You summed up pretty much all my thoughts on this topic.

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Posted
5 hours ago, avg123 said:

Tesla has been accused of allegedly stealing the design for its electric Semi truck from Hydrogen truck startup Nikola Motor.

Nikola Motors have filed a $2 Billion lawsuit in Arizona court.

It looks completely differen't, even the name Nikola Motors is a knockoff. 

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Posted
41 minutes ago, dizmo said:

If they can patent it for this, the patent system is more broken then I thought.

It took you this long to realize the patent system is broken?

I am sure you have heard that Apple has a patent on smartphones with rounded edges. That is not an exageration. They literally have a patent for rounded edges on smartphones, and they successfully sued Samsung for it.

 

42 minutes ago, dizmo said:

If this stands, this is just proof that the advancement of mankind is being severely limited by patents that are a little too overreaching. 

Patents are government granted monopolies on ideas/features. The entire purpose of patents is in fact to limit progress for competitors, and by extent the advancements of mankind.

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6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

It took you this long to realize the patent system is broken?

I am sure you have heard that Apple has a patent on smartphones with rounded edges. That is not an exageration. They literally have a patent for rounded edges on smartphones, and they successfully sued Samsung for it.

 

Patents are government granted monopolies on ideas/features. The entire purpose of patents is in fact to limit progress for competitors, and by extent the advancements of mankind.

Well technically the purpose of patents is to reward the effort and RnD that goes into advancing a field. If everyone is just waiting for a technology to develop instead to copy it then no one is progressing.

 

That's the idea of course. One can argue about the practical effects and occurrences that follow.

 

 

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Posted

At least show a picture of the Tesla with side mirrors:

semi-trucks-supercharging_ThreeFajitas_f

 

Similar design includes:

  • Narrow wedge shaped front with pertruding wheel arches.
  • Wedge shaped side windows, like on a sports car.
  • Wide side mirrors in skinny poles connect the exact same place on the truck.

I gotta say, the design is VERY similar. To the point where you would have to know the specific differences to tell them apart on the road.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Patents are government granted monopolies on ideas/features. The entire purpose of patents is in fact to limit progress for competitors, and by extent the advancements of mankind.

double-edge sword. You need patents to make money on your work/invention and keep innovating, but you stop development for others. If there were no patents, nobody would bother innovating further than a certain level.

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5 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Well technically the purpose of patents is to reward the effort and RnD that goes into advancing a field.

If you by "reward" mean "grant a monopoly" then yes.

 

6 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

If everyone is just waiting for a technology to develop instead to copy it then no one is progressing.

4 minutes ago, The Viking said:

If there were no patents, nobody would bother innovating further than a certain level.

That's not necessarily completely true, but true to a certain extent.

I agree that some patents are necessary (I absolutely loathe software patents though, they don't deserve to exist at all). But the patent office is broken. The rules that patents has to have no prior art and be substantially unique are not being followed that well, which is completely understandable since there are so many patents being filed every year.

 

 

 

By the way, there is more to the lawsuit. Here is the filing if anyone is interested reading it straight from the source, without all the filtering done by media outlets.

If you ask me, there is quite a lot of fluff in there (mostly related to how they arrived at their evaluations) but also some very interesting details such as Tesla reaching out to Nikola in order to recruit people very shortly after Tesla announced they were working on "something", which then turned out to be the semi. Tesla allegedly also ignored Nikola's letters regarding patent infringements after the teaser images were released.

 

 

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1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

If you by "reward" mean "grant a monopoly" then yes.

 

That's not necessarily completely true, but true to a certain extent.

I agree that some patents are necessary (I absolutely loathe software patents though, they don't deserve to exist at all). But the patent office is broken. The rules that patents has to have no prior art and be substantially unique are not being followed that well, which is completely understandable since there are so many patents being filed every year.

 

 

 

By the way, there is more to the lawsuit. Here is the filing if anyone is interested reading it straight from the source, without all the filtering done by media outlets.

If you ask me, there is quite a lot of fluff in there (mostly related to how they arrived at their evaluations) but also some very interesting details such as Tesla reaching out to Nikola in order to recruit people very shortly after Tesla announced they were working on "something", which then turned out to be the semi. Tesla allegedly also ignored Nikola's letters regarding patent infringements after the teaser images were released.

 

 

Well my comment wasn't supposed to be taken as a "this is right", just as "this is how it is justified".

 

 

I think the most egrarious patents are those filed for after things are innovated. Like if cell-phones come out with rounded corners, apple shouldn't be allowed to patent that once they exist outside of apple. And how patent trolls in general work with finding the stupidest shit no one bothered to think was patentable.

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