Canada Health Care vs USA - Explain?

[Frankieanime158]

I'm Canadian, and I always hear the ole 'free health care' jokes when compared to the US, but I don't really understand it. As far as I know, healthcare still costs money. If using a hospital room, you get billed, prescription meds, etc. it still costs money.

Can someone explain to me how the costs for Canada are compared to the US? I don't really understand much about how the economy works, just feeling curious.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Taxed social system vs privatised system. 

Up to you which is better. 

[Ryoku]

7 minutes ago, Frankieanime158 said:

I'm Canadian, and I always hear the ole 'free health care' jokes when compared to the US, but I don't really understand it. As far as I know, healthcare still costs money. If using a hospital room, you get billed, prescription meds, etc. it still costs money.

Can someone explain to me how the costs for Canada are compared to the US? I don't really understand much about how the economy works, just feeling curious.

You don't pay for much of anything in canada, I shattered my knee cap and broke my right foot.  they airlifted me to the next city over had surgery stayed 3 days in the hospital and the only thing i payed for was crutches.

 

In the US you would have payed for everything.

[Frankieanime158]

Oh okay, guess that makes sense. I'm guessing they have to pay for general doc visits too, hey?

[LordWaffleGoblin]

4 minutes ago, Frankieanime158 said:

Oh okay, guess that makes sense. I'm guessing they have to pay for general doc visits too, hey?

Yes we do

[divito]

4 minutes ago, Frankieanime158 said:

Oh okay, guess that makes sense. I'm guessing they have to pay for general doc visits too, hey?

Everything.

People always try to demonize the small tax percentage that goes into socialized healthcare, as 'why would I pay for something I'm not using,' but I always try to explain it as akin to insurance. Everyone pays car insurance, even though they're not all having accidents or driving recklessly, and with that small payment, you're covered for x amount in case something happens. The same goes for that small percentage of your tax that goes towards healthcare, it's there just in case something happens so you're not paying exorbitant out-of-pocket prices for care.

Then there are those that complain of wait times or standard of care. Most of this is overblown, but sure, there are some increased wait times in regards to certain areas of the country and specifically for certain types of healthcare. But even so, it's because everyone is trying to use the service they pay for. Could it be better? Of course, and there are private options if people are so inclined, though there are limits for certain things.

[Zodiark1593]

America is closer to some sort of dichotomy at the moment. Not a single payer, but not fully privatised either (Medicaid, MediCal, etc).

[wasab]

Health care in America is downright exorbitant. Same drugs and surgeries cost more than those of EU counterparts I’ve heard.

[TetraSky]

2 hours ago, Ryoku said:

You don't pay for much of anything in canada, I shattered my knee cap and broke my right foot.  they airlifted me to the next city over had surgery stayed 3 days in the hospital and the only thing i payed for was crutches.

 

In the US you would have payed for everything.

Make me wonder how much that would've cost in the US...

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, Frankieanime158 said:

I'm Canadian, and I always hear the ole 'free health care' jokes when compared to the US, but I don't really understand it. As far as I know, healthcare still costs money. If using a hospital room, you get billed, prescription meds, etc. it still costs money.

Can someone explain to me how the costs for Canada are compared to the US? I don't really understand much about how the economy works, just feeling curious.

Need to go in an ambulance, yeah that will be $600+. Need Epi pens due to allergies, that will be $600. Need a new hip? That will be $30,000. Have cancer? That will be $100,000. Thats the US system. Its cheaper and easier to die. And insurance companies dont want to pay shit, they will fight you on every thing. If my parents are put in the hospital they have to call with in 48 hours and inform their insurance company, or they might not cover it. 

[MadyTehWolfie]

Everything being said the level of care/wait times are better in the us. There's a reason why people from Canada come here to pay out of pocket for healthcare. Unless death counsels seem appealing and having them determine if treating you is worth taxpayer dollars is your thing as well as the long wait times to get anything done.

[AshleyAshes]

16 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Unless death counsels seem appealing

This isn't really a thing in Canada despite what a many American's would believe.  However there is a reality that those who are brain dead or otherwise have no meaningful hope of recovery can have funding for life support withdrawn.  Now, before you react to to this, the United States has these too but they go under a different name; "Insurance Companies".  I mean, seriously, do you think that private healthcare insurers are going to keep forking out the money for years and years on end to keep you as little more than the world's most expensive house plant because your family can't accept the inevitability of death?

[Ithanul]

Me and my parents must be under good insurances then.  I only recall them paying like a 20 dollar co-pay when going to the doctor.

Myself, never paid much for going nor prescriptions, sometimes nothing out of my own pocket.  Then again, I stay my butt under Tricare Select.

 

Still, the system is not perfect.  Any system has flaws and the health system here has some serious major ones that really need to be address.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Everything being said the level of care/wait times are better in the us. There's a reason why people from Canada come here to pay out of pocket for healthcare. Unless death counsels seem appealing and having them determine if treating you is worth taxpayer dollars is your thing as well as the long wait times to get anything done.

Level of care itself is not inherently better in the US. Wait times often are, because if you can pay (or, pay more), you can get bumped to the front of the line.

 

As to why some Canadians opt to travel south for care? A few reasons:

1. They're rich (or moderately wealthy) and simply don't want to wait for a non-life threatening surgery

2. They're rich (or higher than average wealthy) and are seeking out some specific doctor who happens to be a specialist in some specific field (they might even go to a different country, if "the best" in a particular field happens to be not-american)

3. They're rich (or extremely wealthy) and want to go to some private hospital more akin to a spa vacation, where everything is ridiculously luxurious.

 

I can't really think of any other reasons.

 

In the vast majority of cases, in Canada, if you have a life threatening problem, you WILL see treatment immediately. Often within days or weeks.

 

However, non-life threatening problems, there can often be long wait times. This is an inconvenience, sure. But the odds of a Canadian dying due to wait times is essentially zero. I'm sure you could find a case of it, but it's not typical of Canadian care.

 

Also, as @AshleyAshes pointed out, the whole "Death Council" thing? That's not a real thing. If you are brain dead, and have been brain dead for a long time, and the chance of meaningful recovery (typically meaning, a chance of literally ANY recovery) is zero or next to zero? Yes, someone might decide to terminate life support. Any citizen is welcome to fund their own life support systems, or transfer the patient to a private paid-for facility though.

 

In the US, the same thing happens. Insurance companies typically aren't going to pay indefinitely for a brain dead patient with near zero recovery chance. Sooner or later, they'll stop paying.

 

If you're rich, the US system definitely has it's benefits, there's no doubt there. But if you're NOT rich? The US system can really suck at times.

 

In Canada, we like to believe that your wealth doesn't matter, and poor people deserve adequate care too. Not everyone in the world agrees with this sentiment.

 

Personally, I wouldn't trade systems with the US for any reason. I'd be more inclined to look at the UK, France, or a few other European systems, as further improvement upon the Canadian system.

 

Also, Americans DO pay tax dollars towards healthcare. They just, for the most part, don't get any of the benefits of said tax dollars, because of the inefficiencies introduced for a "for profit" healthcare system.

[dalekphalm]

56 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

Me and my parents must be under good insurances then.  I only recall them paying like a 20 dollar co-pay when going to the doctor.

Myself, never paid much for going nor prescriptions, sometimes nothing out of my own pocket.  Then again, I stay my butt under Tricare Select.

 

Still, the system is not perfect.  Any system has flaws and the health system here has some serious major ones that really need to be address.

Even $20 to visit the doctor seems insane to me, as a Canadian. I can go to any number of walk-in health clinics, and see a doctor within a few hours, with no appointment (often within as little as 20 minute wait), for zero out of pocket costs.

 

I can also make an appointment with my primary care doctor ("Family doctor"), and again, it doesn't cost anything.

 

You should ask your parents how much per month they pay for their insurance. Unless their employers pay for it (which does happen), you might be shocked by the number.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Even $20 to visit the doctor seems insane to me, as a Canadian. I can go to any number of walk-in health clinics, and see a doctor within a few hours, with no appointment (often within as little as 20 minute wait), for zero out of pocket costs.

 

I can also make an appointment with my primary care doctor ("Family doctor"), and again, it doesn't cost anything.

 

You should ask your parents how much per month they pay for their insurance. Unless their employers pay for it (which does happen), you might be shocked by the number.

The real question would be to what threshold of medical costs does the insurance company cover.  Obviously depends by the insurer but in a lot of plans it's more like 'We cover up until X dollars in this category while you only pay the co-pay but once you're over that threshold you're on your own until the end of the year.'  You can very much 'use up' a private insurance plan and be left holding the bag for anything beyond that.

 

Of course you can see the same with drug and dental plans in Canada.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

and see a doctor within a few hours, with no appointment (often within as little as 20 minute wait), for zero out of pocket costs.

 

I have medicaid provided by Michigan, its actually thru United Health Care. My doctors office charges them $90. On top of paying that money, I have to show up 15 min before my appointment time and I normally wait at least 45 Min before I get called back. Then another 15 min before the doctor actually sees me. 

 

With Urgent care, they charge like $70 and you wait at least 45 min. US health care sucks ballz. 

[Andreas Lilja]

1 hour ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

There's a reason why people from Canada come here to pay out of pocket for healthcare.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow/

[JokerProduction]

 

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Need to go in an ambulance, yeah that will be $600+. Need Epi pens due to allergies, that will be $600. Need a new hip? That will be $30,000. Have cancer? That will be $100,000. Thats the US system. Its cheaper and easier to die. And insurance companies dont want to pay shit, they will fight you on every thing. If my parents are put in the hospital they have to call with in 48 hours and inform their insurance company, or they might not cover it. 

 

Most of those things are not covered in canada either.  Drugs are not free(unless they are administered by a nurse/doctor in the hospital) Prescriptions are just as expensive here hence why we still have health insurance companies, You will get billed for the ambulance ride,  Medical Equipment is outrageously expensive,  Work wants a doctors note? that will be another 85$, special forms filled out? 200$.  Dental is not even considered healthcare and is privatized up here and is so costly that some people can take a trip to the states to have the dental work and end it up being cheaper even with having to pay for the travel.

 

As others have said wait times are insane once you get past the GP level of healthcare.  Need a CT 6month wait minimum, Consult with a specialist 4months...  Go to the emergency room with something like a broken arm expect to be waiting 6hours on a good night.

 

The Canadian system sucks for those that need more care than a GP can provide but are not in an immediate life threatening situation.

 

 

[AshleyAshes]

6 minutes ago, JokerProduction said:

You will get billed for the ambulance ride,

To be clear here, ambulances are covered for the MOST part.  While you will get billed it's like $50-$100 or so.  If you are in Canada without government health coverage, like a tourist or something, you will pay a HECK of a lot more.  In Ontaro the cost of an ambulance, if covered by OHIP, is fixed at $45 (And free for certain individuals) but you will be billed the actual cost of the ambulance trip and the resources used in the course of your treatment.  Oh and If you are from out of province the fee is $240.

 

...And wow you do NOT want that full bill if there's a helicopter involved.  The AW139 is not exactly cheap to operate.

[Ithanul]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Even $20 to visit the doctor seems insane to me, as a Canadian. I can go to any number of walk-in health clinics, and see a doctor within a few hours, with no appointment (often within as little as 20 minute wait), for zero out of pocket costs.

 

I can also make an appointment with my primary care doctor ("Family doctor"), and again, it doesn't cost anything.

 

You should ask your parents how much per month they pay for their insurance. Unless their employers pay for it (which does happen), you might be shocked by the number.

No clue, I don't get into their financial business.

I actually don't have much experience with standard insurance as I stick to the military coverages and options for myself now.

 

20 bucks don't bother me, cheaper than filling a tank of gas or even buying food.  Plus that 20 dollar figure is back when I was young, think the last time I took my Mom over to a doctor of late, they did not even charge a co-pay for a visit and our wait was like 20 or so minutes.

 

Though, as someone who did active duty, I always found it odd how other members balked at the idea of a full country health coverage considering while in active duty one is fully covered for everything and only has Medicare taken out of the paycheck each month.  Then again, going to a military hospital is like a 50/50 on being negative or positive.

[divito]

1 hour ago, JokerProduction said:

 

 

Most of those things are not covered in canada either.  Drugs are not free(unless they are administered by a nurse/doctor in the hospital) Prescriptions are just as expensive here hence why we still have health insurance companies, You will get billed for the ambulance ride,  Medical Equipment is outrageously expensive,  Work wants a doctors note? that will be another 85$, special forms filled out? 200$.  Dental is not even considered healthcare and is privatized up here and is so costly that some people can take a trip to the states to have the dental work and end it up being cheaper even with having to pay for the travel.

 

As others have said wait times are insane once you get past the GP level of healthcare.  Need a CT 6month wait minimum, Consult with a specialist 4months...  Go to the emergency room with something like a broken arm expect to be waiting 6hours on a good night.

 

The Canadian system sucks for those that need more care than a GP can provide but are not in an immediate life threatening situation.

 

 

Where do you live that you've seen a doctor's note for $85? I've never seen anything higher than $20 and that's from clinics, not GPs. 

Yes, the fact that dental is private is kind of irritating, but a small price in the grand scheme of healthcare. Any time I've had non-threatening surgery, elective, it's been no more than 4 months of waiting simply due to the specialist's timetable and his backlog. An ER is a bit of a mixed bag at various clinics or hospitals, because of all the people clogging them with their kid's runny nose or issues that can't be helped by even visiting one of those doctors.

Anecdotally, my mom, who has Celiac and Type 1 diabetes has never had any issues in regards to wait times for any type of procedures or appointments, and has had to have treatment on one of her eyes constantly over the years as fluid builds up and blocks her vision. Outside of a few prescriptions, everything has been covered. 

[JokerProduction]

1 hour ago, AshleyAshes said:

To be clear here, ambulances are covered for the MOST part.  While you will get billed it's like $50-$100 or so.  If you are in Canada without government health coverage, like a tourist or something, you will pay a HECK of a lot more.  In Ontaro the cost of an ambulance, if covered by OHIP, is fixed at $45 (And free for certain individuals) but you will be billed the actual cost of the ambulance trip and the resources used in the course of your treatment.  Oh and If you are from out of province the fee is $240.

 

...And wow you do NOT want that full bill if there's a helicopter involved.  The AW139 is not exactly cheap to operate.

 

 

I guess it should be important to point out that Health Care is governed at the provincial level and each province determines what its willing to pay for but I can tell you from first hand experience that here in Alberta and BC you pay a significant more than than 240$ and it doesn't surprise me that ontario gets subsidies that the west doesn't.... ( FU Equalization payements)

 

Going rate for an ambulance in Alberta was 485$ last time I seen a bill.   Cousin payed 650 for hers in Vancouver...

29 minutes ago, divito said:

Where do you live that you've seen a doctor's note for $85? I've never seen anything higher than $20 and that's from clinics, not GPs. 

Anecdotally, my mom, who has Celiac and Type 1 diabetes has never had any issues in regards to wait times for any type of procedures or appointments, and has had to have treatment on one of her eyes constantly over the years as fluid builds up and blocks her vision. Outside of a few prescriptions, everything has been covered. 

 Again must be an Alberta thing because we like overpaying for stuff...  I go to a doctor office that is about a dozen different doctors in one clinic they all share a waiting room and all have a board clearly listing the prices for all the common stuff that is not covered under AHS.  That being said my doctor has never actually charged me for the couple notes I've required from him.

[AshleyAshes]

9 hours ago, JokerProduction said:

Going rate for an ambulance in Alberta was 485$ last time I seen a bill.   Cousin payed 650 for hers in Vancouver...

Yes, $485 is still a heavily subsidized.  Believe it or not but a fully equipped ambulance, it's materials, fuel, it's trained crew of at least two people and the time spent treating, transporting and transferring you to a hospital (In Canada, paramedics typically spend 2-4hrs per patient) costs a LOT more than $485.

 

Also, it's $80 in BC, not $650.

[Ollie5]

14 hours ago, Keith W said:

In the UK we have the National Health Service, free medical care at the point of need.

But we all know it's not as great as it's cracked up to be lol

The NHS will save your life, but if you need aftercare it goes downhill from there.