windows phone New York Police Department to replace 36,000 useless smartphones

[Unhelpful]

3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Nope.

 

The confusion in this article is ridiculous.

The NYPD is confused and thus the media is also confused.

 

The problem is that the NYPD don't understand that Microsoft isn't supporting Windows Phone 8.1 . A lot of phones the NYPD owned run Windows Phone 8.1 .

 

Microsoft still supports Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile is actively maintained by the Windows Team. the NYPD did not upgrade their phones to Windows 10 Mobile. And that is entirely their fault.

 

Windows Phone 8.1 support was dropped in July. Windows 10 Mobile is supported as long as new updates come out. Which they do actually, Insider preview builds come out once a week usually with monthly security patches and bug fixes.

The release date for Windows 8.1 Mobile is 2014. Cutting support after less than 3 years is ridiculous and entirely Microsoft's fault. NYPD should move away from it since Microsoft has proven that they can't be bothered to provide reliable long-term support.

[AlTech]

Just now, JoeyDM said:

The release date for Windows 8.1 Mobile is 2014.

* Windows Phone.

 

It wasn't recently (within the last 5 years) called Windows __ Mobile until Windows 10.

Just now, JoeyDM said:

Cutting support after less than 3 years is ridiculous and entirely Microsoft's fault.

Android has worse support.

 

Also, WIndows Phone 8.1 was an update to an existing OS released in 2012.  The OS had 5 years of support. That's the Standard Operating Procedure for Mainstream Support.

Just now, JoeyDM said:

NYPD should move away from it since Microsoft has proven that they can't be bothered to provide reliable long-term support.

If that's really how you feel then I'd recommend writing a letter to the Pentagon and the DOD telling them why they should stop using Windows.

[Unhelpful]

12 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

You fanboy so hard it's fucking hilarious. Windows Phone 8.1 released in 2014. It lost support in 2017. These are facts, and that is fucking ridiculous, which is why it's seen as a joke most businesses. 

[AlTech]

Just now, JoeyDM said:

Android does not have worse support lol. You fanboy so hard it's fucking hilarious. Windows Phone 8.1 released in 2014. It lost support in 2017. These are facts, and that is fucking ridiculous, which is why it's seen as a joke most businesses. 

Think of Windows Phone 8.1 as WIndows Phone 8 Service Pack 1. Cos that is effectively what it was.

 

If you don't want to do proper research then that's not my fault. Android phones and devices are lucky to have 2 years of support. Windows Phone 8 had 5 through the course of it's lifetime which ended in July.

 

The real joke is people's inability to do research and not be IOS fanboys.

[captain_to_fire]

12 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

If that's really how you feel then I'd recommend writing a letter to the Pentagon and the DOD telling them why they should stop using Windows.

I don't think @JoeyDM is referring to Windows on PCs but that the NYPD should just ditch Windows 10 Mobile. That's quite the red herring tbh. 

[AlTech]

Just now, hey_yo_ said:

I don't think @JoeyDM is referring to Windows on PCs but that the NYPD should just ditch Windows 10 Mobile. That's quite the red herring tbh. 

I'm not trying to mislead anybody. He was angry with the idea of 5 years of OS support (2012-2017 through service packs and updates).

 

Therefore it is not unreasonable to assume he's unhappy with Windows support on PC which follows the same Mainstream Support standards as Mobile.

 

[Unhelpful]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm not trying to mislead anybody. He was angry with the idea of 5 years of OS support (2012-2017 through service packs and updates).

 

Therefore it is not unreasonable to assume he's unhappy with Windows support on PC which follows the same Mainstream Support standards as Mobile.

 

Three Years of support is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Enterprise models receive far longer support. You really are an ignoramus and a fanboy.

[AlTech]

Just now, JoeyDM said:

Three Years of support is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Enterprise models receive far longer support. You really are an ignoramus and a fanboy.

I never said 3 years. You're pulling 3 years from somewhere. Anyhow, I'm done dealing with blatant IOS fanboys.  You don't want to accept that when a new iOS version comes out the old ones are no longer supported or that Android Enterprise support is a joke and that's not my problem which is why I'm done with this thread.

[Unhelpful]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I never said 3 years. You're pulling 3 years from somewhere. Anyhow, I'm done dealing with blatant IOS fanboys.  You don't want to accept that when a new iOS version comes out the old ones are no longer supported or that Android Enterprise support is a joke and that's not my problem which is why I'm done with this thread.

You're done with this thread because you're wrong and can't back up anything you say. Also it's really fucking hard to call me an IOS Fanboy. The whole time you've been on these forums you've just been a silly fanboy who can't look at anything objectively. It's sad.

[captain_to_fire]

4 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm not trying to mislead anybody. He was angry with the idea of 5 years of OS support (2012-2017 through service packs and updates).

 

Therefore it is not unreasonable to assume he's unhappy with Windows support on PC which follows the same Mainstream Support standards as Mobile. (emphasis is mine(

Now, I certainly couldn't care less who is a fanboy or not because I think randomly throwing fanboy accusations is a very weak argument but to assume that he's unhappy with Windows support for PCs because a five year OS support is allegedly the same for Windows Phone is absurd and a slippery slope. So if I'm not liking W10M and it's features, does it mean I hate Windows 10 too?

[Unhelpful]

5 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Now, I certainly couldn't care less who is a fanboy or not because I think randomly throwing fanboy accusations is a very weak argument but to assume that he's unhappy with Windows support for PCs because a five year OS support is allegedly the same for Windows Phone is absurd and a slippery slope. So if I'm not liking W10M and it's features, does it mean I hate Windows 10 too?

End of extended support for W10 is 2025. 7 is 2020. I'm quite happy with those support dates. He's comparing apples to chickens because he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Why am I not surprised?

[Nowak]

7 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Nope.

 

The confusion in this article is ridiculous.

The NYPD is confused and thus the media is also confused.

 

The problem is that the NYPD don't understand that Microsoft isn't supporting Windows Phone 8.1 . A lot of phones the NYPD owned run Windows Phone 8.1 .

 

Microsoft still supports Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile is actively maintained by the Windows Team. the NYPD did not upgrade their phones to Windows 10 Mobile. And that is entirely their fault.

 

Windows Phone 8.1 support was dropped in July. Windows 10 Mobile is supported as long as new updates come out. Which they do actually, Insider preview builds come out once a week usually with monthly security patches and bug fixes.

Actually, I am. I predicted the NYPD will ditch Windows Phone. Guess what? It happened.

 

Also, there's a difference between "actively supporting" and "just providing bug fixes". Google just unveiled Android 8.0 Oreo, featuring a redesigned settings menu, notification dots on app icons (effectively making the icons a notification center for that specific app), picture-in-picture and native themeing support. Apple is working on iOS 11, which also brings a wealth of new features to iOS. Microsoft? Windows 10 Mobile is on a separate branch than the mainline Windows 10, will not be getting the Fall Creators update, there are no plans to re-merge it with the main branch and all releases for over a year haven't brought any new features, just bug fixes.

 

Windows Phone/Mobile has gone extinct in Japan recently. It's at 0.0% market share there. Only a matter of time now before it sinks to 0.0% market share in the rest of the world.

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The platform isn't dead. The NYPD's technical departments haven't been doing a good job of staying supported.

 

They chose to not update eligible devices which could have received better software support and newer firmware.

 

7 hours ago, Ezzy-525 said:

EDIT: Just read up that the NYPD has kept all the phones on WP 8.1 and didn't update to W10m. It's their own fault if they're using an old OS which is no longer supported. That being said...the apps on WP are trash anyway, and so are the handsets themselves as I can testify as I was stuck with a piece of gosa which didnt get app updates the same time my Android and iPhone friends did.

@hey_yo_

@JoeyDM

@Daring

@ whomever else is debating if this is about NYPD not updating their phones to Windows Phone 10.

 

 

NYPD are not idiots (well they kind of are, because they chose Windows Phone to begin with). They understand that they can update to a newer version of the OS on their phones.

The problem is that their apps are written for Windows Phone 8, and Microsoft has decided to drop supporting those apps in Windows 10 Mobile. They simply no longer works. Not only that, but UWP apps don't work on anything before Windows 10 Mobile either.

 

So the NYPD got trapped. If they had developed UWP apps (back when it was even more of a steaming pile of shit than it is today) then it would not have worked on the phones they had bought. Now that there is an update out for the phones if they update then none of their apps will work.

That's also if you assume that their phones will ever get updates anymore. The list of phones which will get the latest updates is extremely short and I wouldn't be surprised if their phones aren't on the list.

 

Since they will have to rewrite their apps regardless (and this is entirely Microsoft's fault) it seems to be like they just decided to abandon the sinking ship that is Windows Mobile.

Why keep investing money into a platform that is clearly dying?

[suicidalfranco]

50 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

NYPD are not idiots

 

10 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The confusion in this article is ridiculous.

The NYPD is confused and thus the media is also confused.

 

The problem is that the NYPD don't understand that Microsoft isn't supporting Windows Phone 8.1 . A lot of phones the NYPD owned run Windows Phone 8.1 .

[Satisfoxy]

I worked in I.T. for government before, they choose whoever gives them the 'best deal', it is never based on 'which solution will last us the longest'. Police department went with Dell back in 1995, used the computers up until 2010. 15 years because someone made a good decision. 90% of the time, people drowning in money choose the cheapest option for some reason.

[AlTech]

4 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

SIlverlight apps work on Windows 10 Mobile.

 

They won't in the near future but they currently work.

Evidence: WhatsApp is still a silverlight app.

[vanished]

On 8/28/2017 at 0:24 PM, raphidy said:

Useless phones....Harsh. I guess the best bet for long term support smartphones are iphones.

Yeah that headline is more than a little sensationalist.  It's not like they're all bricked or something 

[GoodBytes]

The reason why the NYPD went with the Windows 10 Mobile are ones that everyone here would agree:

 

The phones where 100% free.

Quote

The contract entered provided for the smartphones at no cost. It also allowed for the NYPD to replace the smartphones with devices of our choosing two years later, also at no cost.

We have since continually reviewed the evolution of mobile platforms. A year ago, we learned that improvements in Apple controls would allow NYPD to responsibly and cost effectively move our mobility initiative to the Apple platform. We began plans to make the transition, which will take effect this fall.

Our smartphone initiative is 45% under budget. Based on current rate of spending, we expect to stretch what was initially budgeted at two years of spending to more than four years.

 

Source: https://www.onmsft.com/news/turns-out-that-nypd-got-those-36000-windows-phones-at-no-charge

 

The switch to other phone is more due to lack of support due to the uncertainty of the phone manufacture and OS, and not because "the phone sucks". Doesn't mean that they don't have Samsung Galaxy S8 or Note 8 that the phone sucks. Remember that they had a whole ecosystem running Windows Phone 8, and the experimental program was and continues to be very successful based on NYPD own statement and data.

 

The phones aren't useless, and were not useless. Sensationalist, and clear lie of a title. Anyone here would have taken the same decision. Keep in mind that:

1. The phones were free, leaving budget for other, more important things.
2. Windows Phone 8 wasn't not compromised security wised, and had the latest updates for the OS. No carrier block. No Manufacture blocks.
3. This is a work phone. Not for entertainment and personal use.
4. Ecosystem and infrastructure runs on Windows.
5. Windows 10 Mobile was promising at the time, with Bridges, UWP platform, support, Android app support (pushing consumer interest), great hardware. Things didn't go as plan.
6. Low value phone, making replacing them, and interest in theft of the device very low.
7. Phones had all the security feature that the NYPD were looking for.

 

Would you have said "Nha, we don't want free phones. Let's re-code everything from scratch again for Android/Apple, risk security issues (including Apple, as this was before Apple had proven its security features), go over budget, and handle the PR mess of officers using Snapchat instead of working or whatever. No you would not. in fact you can't, as the budget would not allow it. Not to mention, who will pay the near 1000$ Note 6 price tag is a phone is lost, or broken during the line of duty, And what if Windows 10 Mobile support was still there, as the company new direction didn't take place, and the market share would remain in the 5%, how will you justify your decision. You would lose your job.

 

[cesrai]

On 8/29/2017 at 3:38 PM, JoeyDM said:

apples to chickens

I'm stealing that.

---

Eh.. They got like ~2.5 years of use out of them so it's not unreasonable to upgrade after it. Furthermore, I can understand why would they go out with iDevice considering their support and the whole thing they have for Enterprises.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows Phone 8 wasn't not compromised security wised, and had the latest updates for the OS. No carrier block. No Manufacture blocks.

Is that a double negative? Anyway, the iPhone had all of those things too.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

This is a work phone. Not for entertainment and personal use.

And this is relevant... how?

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Ecosystem and infrastructure runs on Windows.

Why does this matter? Windows Phone does not become easier to deploy or maintain just because you use Windows PCs as well.

The programs were not cross-platform compatible nor can Windows Phone be managed by AD.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Phones had all the security feature that the NYPD were looking for.

But the iPhone didn't? What security features were the NYPD looking for specifically?

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

(including Apple, as this was before Apple had proven its security features)

You got to be kidding. Are you saying that ~3 years ago Apple had not proven that iOS was a secure platform, but Microsoft had proved that Windows Phone was? Come on...

 

 

Love how you try and spin the lack of apps into something positive as well. Yes, let's get Windows Phones as our work phones because then our employees can't get any entertaining apps.

If you are worried about which apps your employees are running then you can just block them. It is possible to, among other things, block individual apps or even block the entire app store if you want.

 

 

Getting the phones for free was a legitimately good reason for going with WP though, but that seems to be the only valid reason.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

The reason why the NYPD went with the Windows 10 Mobile are ones that everyone here would agree:

 

The phones where 100% free.

 

Source: https://www.onmsft.com/news/turns-out-that-nypd-got-those-36000-windows-phones-at-no-charge

 

The switch to other phone is more due to lack of support due to the uncertainty of the phone manufacture and OS, and not because "the phone sucks". Doesn't mean that they don't have Samsung Galaxy S8 or Note 8 that the phone sucks. Remember that they had a whole ecosystem running Windows Phone 8, and the experimental program was and continues to be very successful based on NYPD own statement and data.

 

The phones aren't useless, and were not useless. Sensationalist, and clear lie of a title. Anyone here would have taken the same decision. Keep in mind that:

1. The phones were free, leaving budget for other, more important things.
2. Windows Phone 8 wasn't not compromised security wised, and had the latest updates for the OS. No carrier block. No Manufacture blocks.
3. This is a work phone. Not for entertainment and personal use.
4. Ecosystem and infrastructure runs on Windows.
5. Windows 10 Mobile was promising at the time, with Bridges, UWP platform, support, Android app support (pushing consumer interest), great hardware. Things didn't go as plan.
6. Low value phone, making replacing them, and interest in theft of the device very low.
7. Phones had all the security feature that the NYPD were looking for.

 

Would you have said "Nha, we don't want free phones. Let's re-code everything from scratch again for Android/Apple, risk security issues (including Apple, as this was before Apple had proven its security features), go over budget, and handle the PR mess of officers using Snapchat instead of working or whatever. No you would not. in fact you can't, as the budget would not allow it. Not to mention, who will pay the near 1000$ Note 6 price tag is a phone is lost, or broken during the line of duty, And what if Windows 10 Mobile support was still there, as the company new direction didn't take place, and the market share would remain in the 5%, how will you justify your decision. You would lose your job.

 

 

Don't go using facts or undermining the sensationalist news article.  This forums loves shitting on MS and WP.  how are they going to do that if you point out the facts.

 

The fact is the future of WP was not in question when they started all this,  so the idea that people knew how bad it would turn out is just dunning Kruger in full effect.

[LAwLz]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The fact is the future of WP was not in question when they started all this,  so the idea that people knew how bad it would turn out is just dunning Kruger in full effect.

The future of WP was very much in question.

Anyone following phone news closely back in ~2011 would tell you that things were not looking good for WP, and things certainly haven't improved since then either.

 

They bought the phones in 2015. That's 2 years AFTER this podcast, where Brian Klug talks about how he challenged one of his friends to switch to last a week with a Windows phone. Quote from the podcast "there is so much friction that I literally don't want to use my phone anymore".

I highly recommend everyone listen to the first 10 minutes or so. This was 4 years ago.

 

Damn... I really miss Anand and Brian.

[Nowak]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure the Surface Phone will make them reconsider!

^.~

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, Daring said:

Don't worry guys, I'm sure the Surface Phone will make them reconsider!

^.~

Inb4 Surface Phone drops tomorrow, being able to natively run every iOS and Android app under the sun.