windows phone New York Police Department to replace 36,000 useless smartphones

[mr moose]

So they bought a phone, got 3 years out of it and are going to upgrade.  This sounds like normal business practice to me.   From what I've seen many companies upgrade their phone fleet every 2 years as a matter of practice.

[LAwLz]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

So they bought a phone, got 3 years out of it and are going to upgrade.  This sounds like normal business practice to me.   From what I've seen many companies upgrade their phone fleet every 2 years as a matter of practice.

Not quite normal business practice.

1) Not all phones the NYPD are using are 3 years old. For example, the Lumia 640 XL was released in April 2015. So more like 2.5 years.

Compare that to an iPhone which you can expect to get updates for up to 5 years.

 

2) Even if the phone stops being supported, your software will keep working if you are on Android or iOS. I am also pretty sure Microsoft recently announced that they would be axing support for old Windows phone apps in Windows 10 Mobile. So NYPD will have to develop brand new apps regardless of which platform they are on. If you are going to start from scratch, and your phones are fairly close to needing replacement anyway, then going with Android or iOS is the obvious thing to do.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not quite normal business practice.

1) Not all phones the NYPD are using are 3 years old. For example, the Lumia 640 XL was released in April 2015. So more like 2.5 years.

Compare that to an iPhone which you can expect to get updates for up to 5 years.

 

2) Even if the phone stops being supported, your software will keep working if you are on Android or iOS. I am also pretty sure Microsoft recently announced that they would be axing support for old Windows phone apps in Windows 10 Mobile. So NYPD will have to develop brand new apps regardless of which platform they are on. If you are going to start from scratch, and your phones are fairly close to needing replacement anyway, then going with Android or iOS is the obvious thing to do.

 

Most companies don't upgrade becasue the phone isn't supported anymore, they update to keep the fleet new and warranted. A couple of companies here in Aus (that I know of) replace phones new for old, they don't generally buy a stock pile of phones.   If their custom apps stop working for whatever reason then it is a logical time to jump ship.  Not to sure where the story is in this.

 

 

[Guest lilbman]

Remember people.

 

This is where your tax dollars are going. Its going to stupid projects like this one. 

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

They just paid for the gold skins too man.

I would be surprised if the NYPD have iPhones with a dbrand skin 

[sun2]

34 minutes ago, lilbman said:

Remember people.

 

This is where your tax dollars are going. Its going to stupid projects like this one. 

Sadly i see these kind of things happening elsewhere to. Everytime a goverment wants to do a large IT project. The budget gets overblown. It eventually costs even more. Its always executed poorly and backfires. And they never seem to look further down the road.

[captain_to_fire]

6 hours ago, Daring said:

Fix for dark theme users, please.

 

OT: This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Windows Phone is a dead end.

Fixed it now. I just woke up and I posted this at 12 in the morning 

[TetraSky]

But why iphones though... They could've gotten a much cheaper, heck even a rugged custom made for police duty, Android based phone instead.

 

I still like my Windows phone, even if I don't get any updates on it anymore. I mean, just because Microsoft doesn't support them anymore, doesn't make them useless. Kind of doubt they were relying on Microsoft for their software updates to begin with and if anything, no new updates means less likely for their custom softwares to break.

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, TetraSky said:

But why iphones though... They could've gotten a much cheaper, heck even a rugged custom made for police duty, Android based phone instead.

Well, as someone mentioned before, iPhones are supported for longer periods of time than most Android phones. Also, NYPD can easily buy rugged cases.

[captain_to_fire]

32 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

We were making fun of their guns.  He said Diamond, so I bought up gold skins.  

Too bad dbrand doesn't have gold skins https://dbrand.com/shop/iphone-7-skins

[Ryujin2003]

8 hours ago, Billy_Mays said:

Rip New Yorks budget this year 

Seriously, the rest of the state pays to fund NYC. Maybe they should go with something cheaper on Android. Seriously, iPhone? What is that, at least 600 a pop? That's $21,600,000.... And how much extra for the software? Wow... Suddenly separating from NYC seems like the only viable option.

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Seriously, the rest of the state pays to fund NYC. Maybe they should go with something cheaper on Android. Seriously, iPhone? What is that, at least 600 a pop? That's $21,600,000.... And how much extra for the software? Wow... Suddenly separating from NYC seems like the only viable option.

Reason why the NYPD chose the iPhone: enterprise MDM and longer support and timely software updates including security patches for at least 5 years. The iPhone 5s from 2013 will still get the iOS 11 update. If the NYPD will buy iPhone 7's in bulk, they can get it at lower prices if they negotiated it with Apple and those phones will be supported for a longer period of time. 

[Guest lilbman]

3 hours ago, sun2 said:

Sadly i see these kind of things happening elsewhere to. Everytime a goverment wants to do a large IT project. The budget gets overblown. It eventually costs even more. Its always executed poorly and backfires. And they never seem to look further down the road.

See, the largest and most glaring flaw with government is that whenever a government tries to do something the civilian population can do, it does it in the most half assed and inefficient way possible.  I think that if the officers as a collective would have fund-raised or gotten a charity to buy them phones and gotten some REAL advice on what to get, they could have gotten good phones that would last them a long time support wise-but no, the government instead wasted tax payer dollars on a clearly dead platform, and now they're back to square freaking one.  

 

 

[Not_Sean]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

So they bought a phone, got 3 years out of it and are going to upgrade.  This sounds like normal business practice to me.   From what I've seen many companies upgrade their phone fleet every 2 years as a matter of practice.

 

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Most companies don't upgrade becasue the phone isn't supported anymore, they update to keep the fleet new and warranted. A couple of companies here in Aus (that I know of) replace phones new for old, they don't generally buy a stock pile of phones.   If their custom apps stop working for whatever reason then it is a logical time to jump ship.  Not to sure where the story is in this.

 

 

Yip, at Audi/VW we buy new Dell pc's they get written off the books over 3 years and once the warranty expires they get replaced regardless of if they still doing the job or not. its how business works. 

 

Also Anyone else think the lady making the choice by herself sound like something out of the ITCrowd, they played a joke on her that nokia are still great. 

[mr moose]

29 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Also Anyone else think the lady making the choice by herself sound like something out of the ITCrowd, they played a joke on her that nokia are still great. 

 

It's just a media article with no actual quotes or links from involved sources,   who knows how many people made the choice or why.

 

 

[Trik'Stari]

Honestly, when it comes to daily use I found the Windows Phone much better than Android. Android seems prone to locking up or just doing whatever the fuck it wants, while the Windows Phone just worked like a goddamned phone.

 

Sure it has horrible compatibility with apps, but I didn't really care. The biggest problem I had was its horrible compatibility with certain websites to try and play music, sometimes it would work, sometimes it didn't. (and no, I don't want to download your goddamned app, I'm already at the website, why would I want to wait and download your fucking app? Why do I suddenly have 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 goddamned apps? Oh right because everyone and their fucking grandmother has an app and you have to download it because everyone has an app for everything, Yo dog you like apps? We made some apps for your apps that you have to download)

 

But, again, as just a phone, for making calls and sending texts, it was actually better. Android tries too much to integrate everything with Google's ecosystem when I just want to send a fucking picture to a number in my contacts. No, no android I don't want to upload to google drive.

 

Edit: keep in mind that I'm a slightly old fashioned person when it comes to phones. All I want is for it to make calls and texts, let me listen to music, and look at websites mainly for the news. Anything more than that and I'll go use an actual computer with a keyboard and mouse, and get it done faster and with less hassle.

 

I really don't even care about having a camera 99% of the time

[AlTech]

13 hours ago, Daring said:

Yup, I remember. All I can say now is I WAS RIGHT!

Nope.

 

The confusion in this article is ridiculous.

The NYPD is confused and thus the media is also confused.

 

The problem is that the NYPD don't understand that Microsoft isn't supporting Windows Phone 8.1 . A lot of phones the NYPD owned run Windows Phone 8.1 .

 

Microsoft still supports Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile is actively maintained by the Windows Team. the NYPD did not upgrade their phones to Windows 10 Mobile. And that is entirely their fault.

 

Windows Phone 8.1 support was dropped in July. Windows 10 Mobile is supported as long as new updates come out. Which they do actually, Insider preview builds come out once a week usually with monthly security patches and bug fixes.

[AlTech]

7 hours ago, lilbman said:

See, the largest and most glaring flaw with government is that whenever a government tries to do something the civilian population can do, it does it in the most half assed and inefficient way possible.  I think that if the officers as a collective would have fund-raised or gotten a charity to buy them phones and gotten some REAL advice on what to get, they could have gotten good phones that would last them a long time support wise-but no, the government instead wasted tax payer dollars on a clearly dead platform, and now they're back to square freaking one.  

 

 

The platform isn't dead. The NYPD's technical departments haven't been doing a good job of staying supported.

 

They chose to not update eligible devices which could have received better software support and newer firmware.

[captain_to_fire]

40 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Microsoft still supports Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile is actively maintained by the Windows Team. the NYPD did not upgrade their phones to Windows 10 Mobile. And that is entirely their fault.

There's a difference between extended support which is Windows 10 Mobile and supported and development ongoing with new features which is iOS 11. Microsoft didn't even bothered to release a Fall Creators Update to their phones. Latest release is more of bug fixes and security patches where as iOS 11 is currently in beta 8. Also, the NYPD is better off with the iPhone since it will receive major releases and security updates in a timely fashion unlike Windows 10 Mobile which is maintained on just bug fixes and security patches but no more development on new major releases. 

[AlTech]

5 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

There's a difference between extended support which is Windows 10 Mobile and supported and development ongoing with new features which is iOS 11. Microsoft didn't even bothered to release a Fall Creators Update to their phones. Latest release is more of bug fixes and security patches where as iOS 11 is currently in beta 8. Also, the NYPD is better off with the iPhone since it will receive major releases and security updates in a timely fashion unlike Windows 10 Mobile which is maintained on just bug fixes and security patches but no more development on new major releases. 

Windows 10 Mobile is not on "Extended Support". Extended Support does not exist for Windows 10 Mobile.

 

Fall creators Update hasn't come out yet for PC and MS has been developing a version for Mobile. Products in a Beta are more likely to get newer features faster than official release.

 

Windows 10 Mobile is supported just as well as Windows 10 on PC which is to say monthly bug fix and security updates as well as new Feature Updates once or twice per year.

If you harp on Windows 10 Mobile then you're also harping on Windows 10's WaaS model.

 

Windows 10 Mobile is being patched up before they add a lot more new features. Microsoft's target audience for Windows 10 Mobile right now prefers stability and fixes rather than loads of new features with no bug fixes.

 

WIndows 10 Mobile devices are being made more suitable for the Enterprise. A device which gets frequent feature updates (such as an iPhone) is not necessarily optimal for Enterprises.

[captain_to_fire]

18 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

A device which gets frequent feature updates (such as an iPhone) is not necessarily optimal for Enterprises

I'm pretty sure app developers within an enterprise can take advantage of new features and new APIs that a new major iOS release can bring like Machine Learning and others. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/ 

24 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Windows 10 Mobile is being patched up before they add a lot more new features. Microsoft's target audience for Windows 10 Mobile right now prefers stability and fixes rather than loads of new features with no bug fixes.

Any primary source on that one or reputable secondary source? Or is it a random rant from Reddit or from a bunch of YouTube comments who thinks app developers are a bunch of lazy people? 

Spoiler

It's not like big corporations and government agencies like the NYPD don't adapt to new technologies. How is it cost effective for them to use phones which will not get any new features and are stuck on security updates like Windows 7? 

[Ezzy-525]

Given that some of the Nokia/MS handsets were dirt cheap, replacing them with iPhones is going to cost an absolute shedload in comparison.

 

I got a Lumia 620 for £10 per month, and that was mostly for the actual airtime pack, the handset itself was around £100 if you bought it outright...iPhones are 7x as much. (Obviously, there will be discounts for buying 36,000 but still)

 

The weird thing is you'd think that the NYPD would have its own software guys to build bespoke apps (and its own ROM) for the cops needs rather than rely on a third party keeping it updated.

 

EDIT: Just read up that the NYPD has kept all the phones on WP 8.1 and didn't update to W10m. It's their own fault if they're using an old OS which is no longer supported. That being said...the apps on WP are trash anyway, and so are the handsets themselves as I can testify as I was stuck with a piece of gosa which didnt get app updates the same time my Android and iPhone friends did.

 

EDIT 2: Also seems like these phones have been in use for a minimum of 2.5 years and some even longer. Sounds like time for an upgrade then and jumping ship from MS is a smart thing to do for mobile phones.

 

All the NYPD needs to do is play off Google and Apple against one another, having the NYPD use your equipment is a huge coup and can be exploited heavily for advertisement. NYC can save a truckload of cash if they actually get business savvy and get a deal out of it. Hell, for the advertising it could give to either one of them they could get the handsets for free and just pay for enterprise support if they play their cards right.

 

[AlTech]

41 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I'm pretty sure app developers within an enterprise can take advantage of new features and new APIs that a new major iOS release can bring like Machine Learning and others. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/ 

Any primary source on that one or reputable secondary source? Or is it a random rant from Reddit or from a bunch of YouTube comments who thinks app developers are a bunch of lazy people? 

 

I'm not being a fanboy right now. I've just told you that the NYPD didn't understand their problem. If you are a professional app developer then I'd love to hear your genuine honest input. I suspect you're not an app developer based on comments you made.

 

Enterprise customers don't want bleeding edge features. They care about stability and performance, not about the latest ARKit or consumer stuff.

41 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's not like big corporations and government agencies like the NYPD don't adapt to new technologies. How is it cost effective for them to use phones which will not get any new features and are stuck on security updates like Windows 7? 

I don't know where you get the idea that Windows 10 Mobile is on a similar path to that of Windows 7.

Windows 10 Mobile is being actively developed and new insider previews are available weekly.

14 minutes ago, Ezzy-525 said:

EDIT: Just read up that the NYPD has kept all the phones on WP 8.1 and didn't update to W10m. It's their own fault if they're using an old OS which is no longer supported. That being said...the apps on WP are trash anyway, and so are the handsets themselves as I can testify as I was stuck with a piece of gosa which didnt get app updates the same time my Android and iPhone friends did

Thank you. Somebody who finally accepts that Microsoft didn't do anything inherently wrong.

 

The quality of devices themselves varies by unit but the 640XL that they use is awesome, I used to use one as my daily driver phone before I did stupid stuff and bricked it. The Lumia 830 doesn't run the latest Windows 10 Mobile Version due to lack of support in Build 15063 or newer (but that's due to HMD/Nokia being annoying and not inherently Microsoft).

 

Lumia 830 devices can still run Windows 10 Mobile on Build 14393 with all the latest security patches as Build 14393 is still being supported until March 2018.

 

[Dylanc1500]

Have they stated what devices they will be using? Apples ecosystem is pretty awesome from an enterprise perspective. Plus, they could be going with the SE which is more than enough and they're smaller and easier to carry. Oh and it's quite a bit cheaper.

[captain_to_fire]

42 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm not being a fanboy right now. I've just told you that the NYPD didn't understand their problem. If you are a professional app developer then I'd love to hear your genuine honest input. I suspect you're not an app developer based on comments you made.

 

Enterprise customers don't want bleeding edge features. They care about stability and performance, not about the latest ARKit or consumer stuff.

While what I said that W10M is on the same support line as Windows 7 is speculative because Microsoft doesn't seem to post alot about new W10M releases if there's any and I admit that, I don't think what I said before has anything to do with you questioning my credentials whether I'm an app developer or not. I was merely asking if you've got any reliable source that the enterprise doesn't care about new features but only bug fixes so don't you dare put the burden of proof on me. 

2 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Windows 10 Mobile is being patched up before they add a lot more new features. Microsoft's target audience for Windows 10 Mobile right now prefers stability and fixes rather than loads of new features with no bug fixes.

 

WIndows 10 Mobile devices are being made more suitable for the Enterprise. A device which gets frequent feature updates (such as an iPhone) is not necessarily optimal for Enterprises.

Also, when you say big enterprises doesn't care about new features and new developer APIs, what kind of enterprises are you talking about? Ever heard of IBM? How about SAP? How about Accenture which is known for Business Process Outsourcing and other companies?