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Kaby Lake and Zen "only" on Windows 10

zMeul
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Users can still run Win7 to 8.1 on Kaby Lake, when it comes to drivers supports. now it's time to get creative about it. That is to find other ways to make it work.example native USB not working. just buy a PCIe x1 USB 2.0 card and plug your keyboard and mouse to that, viola your keyboard and mouse is now working. Don't want to buy a card, then inject drivers straight into the ISO and it will automatically install, during setup. It's a feature since XP.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, zMeul said:

what makes W10 more secure than W8 or even W7?!?

and I must remind you that even today the life support cycle of W7 is still in effect, and will be in effect until 2020

so, yeah ...

 

or should we discuss how MS is planning to make W7 and W8.1 more vulnerable by only releasing cumulative updates?

 

There are lots of new security features. Here's just a few:

 

Windows 10 is advertised as "more secure/the most secure Windows ever" because it ships with a built-in antivirus, Windows Defender; although Windows 8.x did too, it wasn't as integrated as it is in Windows 10, and the Windows Defender in Windows 7 was next to useless. Regardless, though, I would recommend using a different antivirus instead of Windows Defender, due to how basic it is when it comes to device security.

 

But that's not all! Windows 10 natively has support for iris and fingerprint authentication, while Windows 7 and 8.x required separate drivers. Sure, fingerprints are easily spoofable, but your iris isn't.

 

Windows 10 includes this new sandboxing mode called virtualization-based security. Basically, it uses hardware- and software-based virtualization to isolate sensitive subsystems and data, making it harder for attackers to screw with core services. Although, this doesn't mean malware won't go away.

 

There is now Enterprise Data Protection to provide enterprises with better protect sensitive files from being leaked by users. It provides persistent file encryption and basic enterprise rights management to prevent these files from being leaked, either intentionally or accidentally. Users are not required to use special folders or change modes to continue using the files, just applications that the IT department chooses can access the files.

 

There's also better DMA attack mitigation and EMET-enabled protections, among other small security changes.

 

Source: http://www.infoworld.com/article/3044089/security/the-best-new-security-features-of-windows-10.html

 

When you look beyond the circlejerk, there's some pretty nice new things in Windows 10. That being said, I wish that MS would not enable Flash by default in Windows 10, especially since that is insecure as shit and is on its way out anyway.

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1 minute ago, Daring said:

There are lots of new security features. Here's just a few:

 

Windows 10 is advertised as "more secure/the most secure Windows ever" because it ships with a built-in antivirus, Windows Defender; although Windows 8.x did too, it wasn't as integrated as it is in Windows 10, and the Windows Defender in Windows 7 was next to useless. Regardless, though, I would recommend using a different antivirus instead of Windows Defender, due to how basic it is when it comes to device security.

 

But that's not all! Windows 10 natively has support for iris and fingerprint authentication, while Windows 7 and 8.x required separate drivers. Sure, fingerprints are easily spoofable, but your iris isn't.

 

Windows 10 includes this new sandboxing mode called virtualization-based security. Basically, it uses hardware- and software-based virtualization to isolate sensitive subsystems and data, making it harder for attackers to screw with core services. Although, this doesn't mean malware won't go away.

 

There is now Enterprise Data Protection to provide enterprises with better protect sensitive files from being leaked by users. It provides persistent file encryption and basic enterprise rights management to prevent these files from being leaked, either intentionally or accidentally. Users are not required to use special folders or change modes to continue using the files, just applications that the IT department chooses can access the files.

 

There's also better DMA attack mitigation and EMET-enabled protections, among other small security changes.

 

Source: http://www.infoworld.com/article/3044089/security/the-best-new-security-features-of-windows-10.html

 

When you look beyond the circlejerk, there's some pretty nice new things in Windows 10.

 

 

 

Lets also not forget about Microsoft being able to see all your files and browsing history....

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14 minutes ago, Daring said:

When you look beyond the circlejerk, there's some pretty nice new things in Windows 10.

don't you mean more circlejerk?! there isn't anything impeding MS from implementing the same features in their previous OSes

or have you forgot that MS plans to make W10 their last OS - so .. if they actually wanted to, they could've

 

---

 

where is ReFS?! it has been 4y since it was 1st publicly shown with Windows Server 2012

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Just now, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Lets also not forget about Microsoft being able to see all your files and browsing history....

They say it directly in their privacy policy that they have no access to your local files, only files uploaded to a Microsoft service (e.g. OneDrive).

 

Quote

Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:

  • subject line and body of an email,
  • text or other content of an instant message,
  • audio and video recording of a video message, and
  • audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

Additionally, when you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded. If you enter our retail stores, your image may be captured by our security cameras.

You have choices about the data we collect. When you are asked to provide personal data, you may decline. But if you choose not to provide data that is necessary to provide a service, you may not be able to use some features or services.

Service-specific sections below describe additional data collection practices applicable to use of those services.

 

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1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

No driver support means the hardware won't work properly. Imagine Windows default VGA driver performance, but for every piece of hardware.

Yolo. Yeah pretty stupid

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted

 I don't think gets that people tend to use older programs that don't have windows 10 support, but would still like to use the latest gen processors. My family's business runs off of software made in the late 90's and early 2000's and almost none of them are supported by anything above windows 7. No I can't just simply get new software, as all of our customers data is on the program, and it would take years to transfer it all off. I can't believe microsoft. From now on, I will probably never purchase a product made by microshit. I might have to consider the move to linux...

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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

what makes W10 more secure than W8 or even W7?!?

Since Win 10's secure boot keys leaked, absolutely nothing. Actually, Windows 10 is a lot less secure than Windows 7 and 8, because of all its bugs, its forced updates, the absence of user controls that are available in Win 7 and 8, and because of Microsoft's spying on Windows 10 users. The state of Windows 10 is currently such that, for many people, it is much riskier to accept new Windows 10 updates from Microsoft than it is to completely disable all Windows 10 updates.

 

Windows 7 and 8 are already stable, solid, and complete OSes, and so they don't need the kind of updating that Windows 10 does, and so they are inherently more secure than Windows 10 is.

 

Currently, the chances of having a Windows 10 update from Microsoft break something, brick the entire OS installation, make partitions disappear, hijack file associations, etc, is far, far greater than the chance of those things happening from malicious software due to not accepting new updates from Microsoft. Having Windows 10 is a liability in and of itself.

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7 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Since Win 10's secure boot keys leaked, absolutely nothing. Actually, Windows 10 is a lot less secure than Windows 7 and 8, because of its forced updates, the absence of user controls that are available in Win 7 and 8

Allowance of user controls == disabling updates == unpatched systems connected to the internet that become infected.

 

From Microsoft's point of view, you're literally the type of user that resulted in forced patches becoming a thing. 

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12 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Since Win 10's secure boot keys leaked, absolutely nothing.

The Secure Boot master key leak affected Windows 8.x, Phone and RT as well. People are working on porting Android to Windows Phone and RT devices right now due to the leak. As an example, here's a Lumia 525 (a Windows Phone 8 device) running Android 6.0.

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48 minutes ago, Hawx said:

Allowance of user controls == disabling updates == unpatched systems connected to the internet that become infected.

 

From Microsoft's point of view, you're literally the type of user that resulted in forced patches becoming a thing. 

I doubt it, since it is only my Windows 10 installation that runs into troubles (and it runs into many, some due to Microsoft's updates), and I've never sought help from Microsoft or other tech regarding my Windows 7 installations (I've never had to).

 

And you're buying into Microsoft's PR too much. The cumulative and forced updates are so that people can't see when Microsoft is slipping in undesirable features and additional telemetry and data-collection, and so that people can't stop Microsoft from installing additional telemetry and data-collection updates on their systems.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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4 hours ago, samcool55 said:

I actually really want to know what would happen if all the businesses out there get mad about this.

not much. MS would give some press release about "we understand the concerns of our customers and are working on it". Then they would do a major update every 1.5 years, fire programmers to balance out a slower release schedule and with less QC then ever before.

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Wait, only Win 10? 

 

Time to get some KVM stuff done... That is, if Red Hat even decides to support this architecture to begin with.

Then we can run the glorious Win 7 once again.

 

I doubt you'd wanna run KVM on a laptop though...

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For anyone who doesn't believe Microsoft is collecting their data, please do a clean installation of Windows 10 in a VM, enable all the privacy settings like you normally would, make sure OneDrive or any of those pre-installed applications aren't running, run Wireshark and leave it overnight, it will still attempt to connect to 100s, possibly 1000s of IPs and send data.

 

As for Windows 10, I don't think it brings anything useful that Windows 7 didn't already have except for DirectX 12, which many games still aren't using (and by the time they are someone will find a way to make it run on Windows 7, there is a workaround to get DirectX 10/11 on XP), on the other hand it does bring up a number of issues: for one there is the spying, forced updates, certain drivers missing, some software not working properly or working at all.

 

 

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... i mean most businesses I've worked with still use core 2 quads and to 2nd generation core series processors.... 

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I don't see this as much of a problem. I may not have a popular opinion, however why not use the latest software anyways if you're building a new rig? Not everyone is going to like Windows 10, but there is little that can be done these days. It is disappointing though to see support vanish, even if you should not be using outdated operating systems now in my opinion. 

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Day 999

 

Skyrim still can't use more then 4GB of vram in win 10. 

What a shame. 

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It's just the official support

both chips still run x86 instruction set, they will work just fine

 

Win7 and XP probably won't support low powerstates like C7, C30 or some bullshit like that,

probably won't utilize the TSX instructions but that's about it...

 

don't get what's the fuss about it, it's not like someone will prevent you to install Win95 on a Zen

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7 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

This makes no sense same with that skylake will only work on win 8.1 crap. Someones pulls bs out of their ass and it becomes fact.

That's not what they're saying. They're saying Microsoft have forced Intel & AMD to only offer latest chipset driver support to Windows 10.

 

So when AM4/Z270 come you will only be able to get drivers for Win 10 meaning Win 7 & 8 users will have a hard time getting stable OSes running. 

 

I'd have to ask what they're going to do about Windows Server? Server 2012 is based around 8 so are they going to not support Server 2012 either? 

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2 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

For anyone who doesn't believe Microsoft is collecting their data, please do a clean installation of Windows 10 in a VM, enable all the privacy settings like you normally would, make sure OneDrive or any of those pre-installed applications aren't running, run Wireshark and leave it overnight, it will still attempt to connect to 100s, possibly 1000s of IPs and send data.

 

As for Windows 10, I don't think it brings anything useful that Windows 7 didn't already have except for DirectX 12, which many games still aren't using (and by the time they are someone will find a way to make it run on Windows 7, there is a workaround to get DirectX 10/11 on XP), on the other hand it does bring up a number of issues: for one there is the spying, forced updates, certain drivers missing, some software not working properly or working at all.

 

 

Repeat the test in Windows 7 and you'll see exactly the same thing happening. 

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23 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Repeat the test in Windows 7 and you'll see exactly the same thing happening. 

Only if you installed all the back-ported telemetry crap... ;) I had win10 on my PC for a short time when it came out, the LED on my switch associated with the port that was connected to my PC blinked pretty fast when my PC was supposedly idle. I never seen this with win7...9_9

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4 hours ago, Prysin said:

not much. MS would give some press release about "we understand the concerns of our customers and are working on it". Then they would do a major update every 1.5 years, fire programmers to balance out a slower release schedule and with less QC then ever before.

Being the arse they have been the last year i won't be suprised if you are right, sadly :/

 

I wouldn't upgrade just because i don't want to give MS my money, but i have free keys so whatever O_o

 

Oh well let's see how it goes... 

If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

Spying on everyone to fight against terrorism is like shooting a mosquito with a cannon

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8 hours ago, zMeul said:

bullshit!?

I must remind you it nearly happened with Skylake: https://blogs.windows.com/business/2016/08/11/updates-to-silicon-support-policy-for-windows/#XGqBgSOiM3hue8VV.97

 

if Intel would not've released USB drivers for 100series chipsets it would've made installing W7 nearly impossible - Intel actually removed the EHCI protocol from USB (even if it's USB2); you still need a 2nd machine to inject the USB drivers in the install kitt

some mobos still have the PS/2 keyb connector, but the small form factor NUCs (and similar) opted out

 

There's ISO's all over OCN and other websites with windows 7 + XHCI skylake drivers slipstreamed into them that install just like a normal windows 7 OS.

And there's even tools from manufacturers like ASRock and ASUS that will add the driver into your ISO for you.

 

I guarantee it will be the same way with Kaby Lake and Zen, you're blowing all this out of proportion IMO.

Stuff:  i7 7700k @ (dat nibba succ) | ASRock Z170M OC Formula | G.Skill TridentZ 3600 c16 | EKWB 1080 @ 2100 mhz  |  Acer X34 Predator | R4 | EVGA 1000 P2 | 1080mm Radiator Custom Loop | HD800 + Audio-GD NFB-11 | 850 Evo 1TB | 840 Pro 256GB | 3TB WD Blue | 2TB Barracuda

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