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Kaby Lake and Zen "only" on Windows 10

zMeul
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But windows 10 is free and latest and best windows ever! Why use old obsolete windows instead?

Linus is my fetish.

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17 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

That's actually a decent proposition: Move to Kaby Lake (Or Zen if it doesn't sucks) on Linux as your main OS and just run virtualized Windows 10 with GPU passthrough just to game.

 

I might just do exactly that in fact.

I keep wanting to switch to the linux --> Windows VM setup, but Windows is just to nice.....

Linux on da laptop tho.

 

 

 

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So how do they exactly plan to do this? Make it so if you have windows 7 and it reads the CPU as a certain model it won't boot?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, SamStrecker said:

So how do they exactly plan to do this? Make it so if you have windows 7 and it reads the CPU as a certain model it won't boot?

It'll still boot. There will just be no driver/chipset support, so it's at the user's own risk.

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Just now, SamStrecker said:

So how do they exactly plan to do this? Make it so if you have windows 7 and it reads the CPU as a certain model it won't boot?

Just not write a CPU/chipset driver for the OS

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Just now, Hawx said:

It'll still boot. There will just be no driver/chipset support, so it's at the user's own risk.

Pfff ok so it means nothing

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

-snip-

Not surprised, might have something to do with DX12

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Just now, SamStrecker said:

Pfff ok so it means nothing

No driver support means the hardware won't work properly. Imagine Windows default VGA driver performance, but for every piece of hardware.

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10 minutes ago, Bhav said:

But windows 10 is free and latest and best windows ever!* Why use old obsolete windows instead?

*Citation needed, on both accounts.

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1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

No way: they can't force business users to upgrade the OS and most of them will be getting these chips. They're just playing a stupid game of chicken, one that they will lose.

Ms forced us to pay additional licensing based on processor core count on servers. They can force this too. 

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

*Citation needed, on both accounts.

Why, the most esteemed and highly respected opinion of Bhav, of course.

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7 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Supporting people on old devices =/= allowing new users to go onto depreciated software.... That should be self-evident the difference...

IMO microsoft should be supporting hardware for Windows 7 as long as possible, squeeze more out of an OS that is almost dead, so they will be able to sell windows 10 in 4 years time.

There are so AM3+ motherboards that support XP and a lot of 775 motherboard that support windows 9x.

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Just now, Comic_Sans_MS said:

IMO microsoft should be supporting hardware for Windows 7 as long as possible, squeeze more out of an OS that is almost dead, so they will be able to sell windows 10 in 4 years time.

There are so AM3+ motherboards that support XP and a lot of 775 motherboard that support windows 9x.

Except they make more off of Windows 10 installations... and it is less effort to upkeep one OS... The faster you get people off an old system the better from a profit perspective.

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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

but for businesses, it will - it's already clear that businesses are quite reluctant to jump to MS' new OS

Hmm, I wonder why. Maybe it's because businesses are slower to adopt a new operating system than consumers?

Nah, can't be. Let's keep pointing fingers at everything else!

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8 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

So how do they exactly plan to do this? Make it so if you have windows 7 and it reads the CPU as a certain model it won't boot?

On their newer nucs you actually have to go into the bios and change a few settings to be able to run windows 7. And then for installing it you need to have an iso woth usb 3.0 drivers injected. As there is no usb 2 ports on the new nucs, and win7 doednt have a usb3 driver in its installer.

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Just now, Daring said:

Maybe it's because businesses are slower to adopt a new operating system than consumers?

to switch to a new OS there has to be a very good reason

switching to a new OS means that the company has to spend a shit ton of money on new licences, training their personnel, making sure that the software they use is compatible with the new OS

was there any reason to switch from W7 to W10? I can't think of any; I can think of a shit ton of why you shouldn't

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Well, Windows 7 and 8 are both superior Windows OSes to Windows 10, and Windows 7 still has a massive install base (which will likely grow as people leave Windows 10 after trying it out for a month or so), so it wouldn't be good for the state of Windows systems if new Intel CPUs were not fully supported on those more solid, secure, and robust Windows OSes (Win 7 and 8). Windows 10 (AKA Win ME 2) is a mess of a b-grade bug-ware project, mostly made just to prostitute every nook and cranny of Windows for Microsoft's sake (at the expense of system owners), and Microsoft has changed its management and development strategies in ways that means that Microsoft is no longer capable of making an impressive and top quality Windows OS. Basically, if a person wants the best, and the most secure and reliable, they'll have to continue using Windows 7 or 8.

 

But regarding Intel support for Windows 7 and 8... new CPUs have been coming out long after DOS, Win 3.1, Win XP, Win Vista, etc released, and even though none of those OSes received official support for newer CPUs, newer systems with newer CPUs still run all of those OSes without issue. I expect it to be the same regarding new Intel CPUs and Windows 7 and 8.

 

Also, just because Microsoft isn't back-adding support for newer CPU features to Windows 7 and 8, that doesn't mean there won't arrive support drivers from other sources, like maybe Intel themselves, or another source.

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30 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Ms forced us to pay additional licensing based on processor core count on servers. They can force this too. 

Licensing thousands of workstations and machines would be considerably more in terms of cash. And true they could. Then again the server world is one side where Microsoft actually doesn't has a hegemony as many, many servers run on something other than Windows I think I can qualify my previous statement as "Yes they could force this too, not without consequences though".

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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

bullshit!?

I must remind you it nearly happened with Skylake: https://blogs.windows.com/business/2016/08/11/updates-to-silicon-support-policy-for-windows/#XGqBgSOiM3hue8VV.97

 

if Intel would not've released USB drivers for 100series chipsets it would've made installing W7 nearly impossible - Intel actually removed the EHCI protocol from USB (even if it's USB2); you still need a 2nd machine to inject the USB drivers in the install kitt

some mobos still have the PS/2 keyb connector, but the small form factor NUCs (and similar) opted out

I call bullshit cause the correct title for this topic would be kabylake and zen to provide drivers only for win10.

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26 minutes ago, zMeul said:

to switch to a new OS there has to be a very good reason

switching to a new OS means that the company has to spend a shit ton of money on new licences, training their personnel, making sure that the software they use is compatible with the new OS

was there any reason to switch from W7 to W10? I can't think of any; I can think of a shit ton of why you shouldn't

Was there any reason to upgrade from Windows NT 4.0 to 2000? 2000 to XP? XP to 7?

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16 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Well, Windows 7 and 8 are both superior Windows OSes to Windows 10, and Windows 7 still has a massive install base (which will likely grow as people leave Windows 10 after trying it out for a month or so), so it wouldn't be good for the state of Windows systems if new Intel CPUs were not fully supported on those more solid, secure, and robust Windows OSes (Win 7 and 8). Windows 10 (AKA Win ME 2) is a mess of a b-grade bug-ware project, mostly made just to prostitute every nook and cranny of Windows for Microsoft's sake (at the expense of system owners), and Microsoft has changed its management and development strategies in ways that means that Microsoft is no longer capable of making an impressive and top quality Windows OS. Basically, if a person wants the best, and the most secure and reliable, they'll have to continue using Windows 7 or 8.

Well, Windows XP is the superior Windows OS to Windows 7, and Windows XP still has a massive install base (which will likely grow as people leave Windows 7 after trying it out for a month or so), so it wouldn't be good for the state of Windows systems if new Intel CPUs were not fully supported on the more solid, secure, and robust Windows OS (Win XP). Windows 7 (AKA Vista v2) is a mess of a b-grade bug-ware project, mostly made just to prostitute every nook and cranny of Windows for Microsoft's sake (at the expense of system owners), and Microsoft has changed its management and development strategies in ways that means that Microsoft is no longer capable of making an impressive and top quality Windows OS. Basically, if a person wants the best, and the most secure and reliable, they'll have to continue using Windows XP.

 

Quote

 

Also, just because Microsoft isn't back-adding support for newer CPU features to Windows 7 and 8, that doesn't mean there won't arrive support drivers from other sources, like maybe Intel themselves, or another source.

Both Intel and AMD have said they aren't making drivers for pre-W10. That's the point of this post. 

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Just now, Daring said:

Was there any reason to upgrade from Windows NT 4.0 to 2000? 2000 to XP? XP to 7?

no, this is why some of them even stayed on Windows XP

right in the OP I linked to a news topic showing this

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2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

no, this is why some of them even stayed on Windows XP

right in the OP I linked to a news topic showing this

You see zMeul, you can ask this about any OS when talking about business software cycles and the answer will always be the same: as you said, "no." The only real reason they'd want to upgrade is security and maybe some new Active Directory and scalability features, and even then good luck with minimizing upgrade costs and downtime.

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Just now, Daring said:

You see zMeul, you can ask this about any OS when talking about business software cycles and the answer will always be the same: as you said, "no." The only real reason they'd want to upgrade is security, and even then good luck with minimizing upgrade costs and downtime.

what makes W10 more secure than W8 or even W7?!?

and I must remind you that even today the life support cycle of W7 is still in effect, and will be in effect until 2020

so, yeah ...

 

or should we discuss how MS is planning to make W7 and W8.1 more vulnerable by only releasing cumulative updates?

 

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