Kaby Lake and Zen "only" on Windows 10

[Eroda]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Great for you, now go back and continue your life as a sheep while we sort out what to do...

 

(This level of ignorance is too much even for me, it just triggered the blow-off valve...)

get over yourself im not ignorant i just dont see the issue. you are trying to sort out what to do best case scenario is you might convince MS to support 1 more generation of hardware maybe 2 with windows 8.1. Linux isnt a viable option since all i use a PC for is to play video games  check my email and browse forums, and im not going to emulate windows or fuck around trying to get a game to work in linux when i can just use W10 and have no issues

[Hawx]

6 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Windows 10 is bugware, dude. Gotta Norton that shit.

I force-updated four computers on release day with a wide range of hardware, including a AMD APU machine and 1st gen core i7 with 560Ti . In a year I've only had a single problem on a single computer that was fixed by manually setting the page file. All of my friends have updated without a single issue as well. In one case, the upgrade actually fixed an issue someone was having with Windows 8.

 

Remind me again how Windows 10 is supposed to instantly break my computer?

[NumLock21]

11 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

It's not about features though. Do you not know how drivers work? 

 

Inside the inf file there is a specific set of hardware ids defined and as the driver installs Windows checks the ids from the inf with the actual Id of the hardware, if they match then they install, if they don't match they don't install. Now granted it's possible to force windows to ignore the ids and install anyway but seriously suggesting that forcing a Z170 driver onto a Z270 system would work fine makes we think you really don't know how drivers work, at all. If the hardware ids don't match then the driver will not work no matter if you force it or not. 

 

Also FTR it's possible to include "OSVER=XX" in the inf file so it will fail on the wrong OS even during a manual forced install (the driver will go through the install process but Windows won't even try and load it as it knows it's for a different windows version). 

I know there are ID in the inf file which needs to match the hardware that's being used in order for the driver to install. I've also forced install drivers for certain hardware which the manufacture stopped supporting with new drivers since Windows XP and they still work fine.

One example would be my scanner. still using it on my current 64bit Windows 10.  Another would be, was working on a client system where they got Windows 7 and the audio driver was missing. Went to its support site and last one was Windows XP. Have to search the web for the latest driver and found the latest was Vista. Tried that by manually forcing install and it went through. Sound is working.

We'll just have to wait until the new boards come out to see how restricted the drivers are from Intel and AMD, that is are the new drivers really only for Windows 10 or they can be used for older OS, like Windows 7. And don't forget, OEM who sells business machine, gets Windows 7 downgrade rights.

 

 

[jagdtigger]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Except that the sheep are the ones who follow the majority. Now considering the majority are the ones bashing 10 and claiming 7 will be the last OS they ever use...

 

Who exactly is the sheep here? Who is the one bashing the OS they've never even used simply because its what the cool kids are doing?

I used it and it was a real PITA, the last straw was when the sh!t hit the fan(the telemetry that was added in secret, plus the keylogger) plus my PC woken up every night from sleep mode with dark monitors and the damn thing didnt even given mo a reason(no clue in logs and powercfg -lastwake wasnt showing anything (yes i disabled all stuff including wake-up timers and WOL). The big updates were a mess(wont update when more than one HDD/SSD in my PC plus it reseted almost all my tweaks, etc...). And by sheep i meant they are blindly defend microsoft even tough it was proven several time that they are in the wrong .

 

3 hours ago, Eroda said:

get over yourself im not ignorant i just dont see the issue. you are trying to sort out what to do best case scenario is you might convince MS to support 1 more generation of hardware maybe 2 with windows 8.1. Linux isnt a viable option since all i use a PC for is to play video games  check my email and browse forums, and im not going to emulate windows or fuck around trying to get a game to work in linux when i can just use W10 and have no issues

No issuses, the forced updates with the bad quality "black-box" updates are not a problem? Or the fact that MS can go through all your files without your permission? Do you know there is a built keylogger? What about removing features without prior notice(the fiasco with pro)?

 

If you still think there is no issue then i was right that you are in fact a sheep.

[Master Disaster]

8 hours ago, Urishima said:

Except the mentioned 'cool kids' are IT-professionals. Supporters, devs, sysadmins, you name it. People like me who keep an eye on this shit professionally, and actually know what they are talking about. Just go on over to r/sysadmin and ask the people over there how thrilled they are about dealing with Win10 and Microsoft's shenanigans.

All of the people who won't be using 10 anyway, in the home environment it's a totally different story. 

 

56 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I know there are ID in the inf file which needs to match the hardware that's being used in order for the driver to install. I've also forced install drivers for certain hardware which the manufacture stopped supporting with new drivers since Windows XP and they still work fine.

One example would be my scanner. still using it on my current 64bit Windows 10.  Another would be, was working on a client system where they got Windows 7 and the audio driver was missing. Went to its support site and last one was Windows XP. Have to search the web for the latest driver and found the latest was Vista. Tried that by manually forcing install and it went through. Sound is working.

We'll just have to wait until the new boards come out to see how restricted the drivers are from Intel and AMD, that is are the new drivers really only for Windows 10 or they can be used for older OS, like Windows 7. And don't forget, OEM who sells business machine, gets Windows 7 downgrade rights.

 

 

Yes but your using an old driver for the same hardware so it is possible that could work assuming the driver follows the standard driver model and the dll/sys files don't relay on calls that don't exist. 

 

What your suggesting is using an old driver for the wrong hardware and it just won't work. As I've said multiple times, Z170 won't accept Z97 drivers (even on the correct OS Version) so what makes you think a Z170 driver would work on Z270? 

 

Edit

 

Hang on a minute, I get you know. Your saying you could use the 10 drivers on 7 and force them. Maybe it might work but I doubt it, like I said they can just use the OS Version line in the inf and Windows will ignore it and just show error code 40 in device manager, even if you force install them. 

[Misanthrope]

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

I force-updated four computers on release day with a wide range of hardware, including a AMD APU machine and 1st gen core i7 with 560Ti . In a year I've only had a single problem on a single computer that was fixed by manually setting the page file. All of my friends have updated without a single issue as well. In one case, the upgrade actually fixed an issue someone was having with Windows 8.

 

Remind me again how Windows 10 is supposed to instantly break my computer?

Let me introduce you to the concept of anectotal evidence and it's (complete lack of) validity.

[Urishima]

29 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

All of the people who won't be using 10 anyway, in the home environment it's a totally different story. 

 

Nonsense, a lot of them were actually looking forward to Win10 for home use back when they tried out the first RCs.

 

Here's the thing: even most Linux sysadmins will have a Windows machine at home, gaming being the most common reason to have one. I primarily use Linux now, but I still have a Win7 PC for gaming.

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Hang on a minute, I get you know. Your saying you could use the 10 drivers on 7 and force them. Maybe it might work but I doubt it, like I said they can just use the OS Version line in the inf and Windows will ignore it and just show error code 40 in device manager, even if you force install them. 

From what I've read:

 

a) That's not a problem in Windows 7, only in Windows 8 and 10 ("In Windows 7, if you install a driver that does not have digital signature information, then Windows 7 will give us two options: “Do not install this driver software / Install this driver any way “. However, in windows 8 it did not appear that options").

 

b) If it were a problem, such as while trying to install a Windows 7 driver on Windows 8, then you can “Disable driver signature enforcement” from the Windows startup settings.

 

http://www.getdriver.com/how-to/2410/make-windows-7-drivers-work-windows-8-8-1-inf-modding.html

[Hawx]

8 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Let me introduce you to the concept of anectotal evidence and it's (complete lack of) validity.

You misunderstand me. I was having a go at his continued insistence that W10 is terrible for everyone & is a terrible OS in general. His constant immature insults against the OS are annoying.