PSU Tier List [OLD]

[Bhav]

3 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

nice meme

I still require assistance with my confusion over my T2, why is it listed as a T1?

 

..... 

 

Do I give away the joke yet?  Hmmmm,  no. I mean,  this post should make it simple to understand now,  surely? 

[STRMfrmXMN]

15 minutes ago, Bhav said:

I still require assistance with my confusion over my T2, why is it listed as a T1?

 

..... 

 

Do I give away the joke yet?  Hmmmm,  no. I mean,  this post should make it simple to understand now,  surely? 

Well until EVGA sells a T3, your meme is still fresh

[Bhav]

28 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

Well until EVGA sells a T3, your meme is still fresh

Shhhhh! Damn you. 

[Stefan Payne]

8 hours ago, Energycore said:

Does it have OPP? Is it missing OCP on the minor rails? Imo PSUs with OPP are ok not having OCP on the 12V

Missing OCP on all rails.

UVP isn't present either if I remember correctly. Those shitty 8pin things often don't have that either. 

Protection IC is HY-510N.

[Bhav]

Look what I just got:

 

 

For my glorious 1000w EVGA T2, which runs silently at under 50 degrees C and doesn't even need it's fan to switch until it reaches 800w of usage.

 

In comparison, a feeble 550-850w PSU would be running at 65 degrees C plus with their fans on full speed at the same loads as my glorious 1000w one, and also at lower efficiency because apparently some unknown black voodoo magic that breaks the rules of thermodynamics.

 

*ERMEHGERD ITS ONLY COOLER COS ITS FAN MUST RUN FASTER* ... No, actually, it's on eco mode and doesn't even switch on until 800+ watts is used lol. 

 

#Overspecified PSU master race, I pity all the peasants running a PSU at over 80% load, god so noisy, and hot and wasting electricity.

[awesomegamer919]

2 minutes ago, Bhav said:

Look what I just got:

 

 

For my glorious 1000w EVGA T2, which runs silently at under 50 degrees C and doesn't even need it's fan to switch until it reaches 800w of usage.

 

In comparison, a feeble 550-850w PSU would be running at 65 degrees C plus with their fans on full speed at the same loads as my glorious 1000w one, and also at lower efficiency because apparently some unknown black voodoo magic that breaks the rules of thermodynamics.

 

*ERMEHGERD ITS ONLY COOLER COS ITS FAN MUST RUN FASTER* ... No, actually, it's on eco mode and doesn't even switch on until 800+ watts is used lol. 

There is no way that the bridge rectifier is below 50c at a decent load... 

[Bhav]

23 minutes ago, awesomegamer919 said:

There is no way that the bridge rectifier is below 50c at a decent load... 

I'm going based on these figures, and its just on intake and exhaust temperature:

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=459

 

At 500w load it's only exhausting 42 degrees C. The fan doesn't switch on until 6 minutes into 800+ watts of use, at which the exhaust is still only 56 degrees.

 

Then you can simply compare that to the same unit but 850w capacity:

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=462

 

Temps at the same wattage are much higher, and the fan turning on at even lower loads and needing to spin faster at the same loads as the 1000w one.

 

Because 'ERMEHGERD the fan on mine must obviously be running faster', when it's actually not even running at all lol.

 

1000w PSU is cooler even with the fan switched off than the 850w one with the fan on full speed because black magic voodoo superpowers.

 

Also for all you people's info, I am going to try and get to the bottom of this. I will try contacting EVGA and asking where I can such as physics forums for more info as to why the 1000w unit runs 5-10c cooler even with its fan switched off at the same loads as the 850w one even with its fan switched on. I've also posted pictures on the internals of the PSUs in the other thread where I'm arguing this to show that under the fan there's literally no obvious physical difference such as more heatsinks to explain why the 1000w one runs cooler without even needing its fan. I could even try asking on Johnny guru forums, but I don't think those are very busy. 

 

Obviously I'm not gonna get all the answers overnight and it might even take weeks, so wait for it and give me time.

[OrionFOTL]

24 minutes ago, Bhav said:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=462

 

Temps at the same wattage are much higher, and the fan turning on at even lower loads and needing to spin faster at the same loads as the 1000w one.

How do you compare those two at the same wattage, when those Jonnyguru reviews didn't test them at the same wattage? There is no load test 1-5 in the 1000T2 review that would match the wattage of any 1-5 load test in the 850T2 review.

They don't test fan RPM either, so how do you know which one spins faster (and whether it spins at full speed or not), excluding the fanless period?

[Bhav]

41 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

How do you compare those two at the same wattage, when those Jonnyguru reviews didn't test them at the same wattage? There is no load test 1-5 in the 1000T2 review that would match the wattage of any 1-5 load test in the 850T2 review.

They don't test fan RPM either, so how do you know which one spins faster (and whether it spins at full speed or not), excluding the fanless period?

I just have to base my initial conclusions on the limited information that was available in those two reviews, which as you say isn't the most accurate comparison, its merely the only available comparison I have. The closest comparison I have found is the 806 Vs the 855 watt loads, so there is  plenty of room for discrepancy with the additional 49 watts of load.

 

Hence why I will need to do more digging by contacting the manufacturers and asking on the forums for those reviews for more information at a later time (I still need sleep right now).

 

However the 1000w is cooler at 500w without the fan switched on than the 850w at 430w with or without the fan on - the only importance here is to note that this counters the assumption that the 1000w unit would simply be cooler due to having a higher RPM fan, which is thus obviously not the case.

 

Even if the fan is off in both cases, why then is the 1000w unit cooler at 500w load than the 850w unit at 430w load?

 

Also at the time when I purchased this PSU, the 850w one was £209, while the 1000w one I got was just £219. Apparently according to the advice on this forum, this was a huge mistake worthy of furious replies including curse words when I similarly advised someone else to do something similar (albeit 550w vs 650w with a $15 difference), hence why this argument is now proceeding in full force to determine the benefits of a larger wattage PSU for a small increase in price, with my claims such as higher efficiency, lower temperature and less noise being discredited only on this single forum by your self appointed keyboard PSU experts (just about every other forum I've read supports my advice, as do videos by Linus himself who does the same thing with a higher rated PSU intended to be ran at around or under 50% load, and as the reviews of my PSU seem to also support).

[OrionFOTL]

21 minutes ago, Bhav said:

Even if the fan is off in both cases, why then is the 1000w unit cooler at 500w load than the 850w unit at 430w load?

You shouldn't look only at the exhaust temperature. See, the 1000T2 runs at 500W, intakes 36C and exhausts 42C. (Delta 6C). The 850T2 runs at 430W, intakes 39C and exhausts 42C (Delta 3C). So, at this wattage the 850T2 heats the air inside it less than 1000T2 does.

[Bhav]

46 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

You shouldn't look only at the exhaust temperature. See, the 1000T2 runs at 500W, intakes 36C and exhausts 42C. (Delta 6C). The 850T2 runs at 430W, intakes 39C and exhausts 42C (Delta 3C). So, at this wattage the 850T2 heats the air around it less than 1000T2 does.

Good point, I didn't notice that.

 

_____________

 

However I also just noticed another point. Both the 850w and 1000w T2s are rated to provide their max output at 50 degrees. So 850w at 50c Vs 1000w at 50c.

 

I would also like to find out when I ask EVGA support if each model uses the same or a different RPM fan. It would have been much better if reviews for such PSUs could have also included information on the fan and its RPM at rated loads and temperatures, as this alone would very easily conclude whether it's just due to a higher RPM fan or the higher specification of the larger PSU.

[awesomegamer919]

7 hours ago, Bhav said:

I just have to base my initial conclusions on the limited information that was available in those two reviews, which as you say isn't the most accurate comparison, its merely the only available comparison I have. The closest comparison I have found is the 806 Vs the 855 watt loads, so there is  plenty of room for discrepancy with the additional 49 watts of load.

That's still a 50w load difference...

Quote

However the 1000w is cooler at 500w without the fan switched on than the 850w at 430w with or without the fan on - the only importance here is to note that this counters the assumption that the 1000w unit would simply be cooler due to having a higher RPM fan, which is thus obviously not the case.

As Orion noted,  ambient was higher and DeltaC was lower with the 850w test. 

Quote

Even if the fan is off in both cases, why then is the 1000w unit cooler at 500w load than the 850w unit at 430w load?

It is not

Quote

Also at the time when I purchased this PSU, the 850w one was £209, while the 1000w one I got was just £219. Apparently according to the advice on this forum, this was a huge mistake worthy of furious replies including curse words when I similarly advised someone else to do something similar (albeit 550w vs 650w with a $15 difference),

Because there's no reason to go overkill on wattage? 

Quote

hence why this argument is now proceeding in full force to determine the benefits of a larger wattage PSU for a small increase in price, with my claims such as higher efficiency, lower temperature and less noise being discredited only on this single forum by your self appointed keyboard PSU experts

Because your claims are bogus or have such a small real world effect that it really doesn't matter... Efficiency with an overkill PSU is often lower as when your PC is at idle or low load you have lower efficiency.  Less noise is fair,  except for the fact that BeQuiet and Corsair have units that are so quiet that pretty much any other fans in the PC will drown them out. Temps as an argument makes no sense - PSUs are designed to run perfectly well with components at certain temperatures, running them ate lower temps make very little difference...

Quote

(just about every other forum I've read supports my advice,

JG forums would agree with us,  ask these people on the other forums to prove their knowledge on PSUs

Quote

as do videos by Linus himself

So your telling me Linus has all the gear to test PSUs,  I doubt he has any load tester,  let alone a higher quality one like a Chrome or w/e... He probably has a DMM but is it a fairly cheap one or is it a $500 Fluke/Extech, same with an Oscilloscope 

 

[Bhav]

9 minutes ago, awesomegamer919 said:

... Efficiency with an overkill PSU is often lower as when your PC is at idle or low load you have lower efficiency.  

This actually depends entirely on the PSU. The EVGA T2s, even the high wattage units actually have among the lowest idle and low power efficiencies, and also most modern high end PSUs also seem to do as others were keen to point out that a lot of PSUs are most efficient in the 20-50% usage range.

 

So if someone wants to, go ham and overkill with a titanium rated PSU. Other than the cost, which is entirely the buyers choice, there is not a single negative to doing so, only, even if slight, positives. 

 

Its merely superfluous at worst, not actually wrong in any way at all.

 

[Stefan Payne]

1. There are only a hand full of people per (major) country that know stuff about PSU and/or are interested in that shit.

2. In some countrys there is a point of origin for PSU knowledge. In the english realm, that is  @jonnyGURU but for the German speaking realm that is me.

And I'm pretty sure that people at Corsair know me rather well for various reasons  

3. Many/most PSU "Review" are a pile of crap and useless because they don't have the needed equipment for serious PSU Tests. If you see a Computer you can discard the PSU review immideately. The only thing that is good for is Noise testing. That is possible with a Computer. But everything else is not.

4. Sunmoon and FAST ATE aren't great. Better than a PC of course but far from a good Test Station like a Chroma ATE.

5. The most important things you can test right now is fan RPM and protection...

Anyway, back to the "discussion". 

1 hour ago, Bhav said:

So if someone wants to, go ham and overkill with a titanium rated PSU. Other than the cost, which is entirely the buyers choice, there is not a single negative to doing so, only, even if slight, positives. 

That's not true

 

Lets get the facts straight: A good quality 80plus gold or Platinum unit in the 450/550W range is available for around 100€ some examples:

https://geizhals.de/xilence-performance-x-550w-atx-xn071-xp550r9-a1674273.html?hloc=de Performance X; 60€/230V EU

 

Bitfenix Formula 450W, 65€

https://geizhals.de/bitfenix-formula-gold-450w-atx-2-4-bf450g-bp-fm450ulag-9r-a1720222.html?hloc=de

 

Focus Gld, 550W 70€

https://geizhals.de/seasonic-focus-plus-gold-550w-atx-2-4-ssr-550fx-a1658745.html?hloc=de

Formula is the same:

https://geizhals.de/bitfenix-formula-gold-550w-atx-2-4-bf550g-bp-fm550ulag-9r-a1720158.html?hloc=de

 

be quiet Straight Power 11, 450 and 550 are around 89€ and 94€ right now:

https://geizhals.de/be-quiet-straight-power-11-450w-atx-2-4-bn280-a1753697.html?hloc=de

https://geizhals.de/be-quiet-straight-power-11-550w-atx-2-4-bn281-a1753710.html?hloc=de

 

And the Dark Power Pro P11 550W is 130€:

https://geizhals.de/be-quiet-dark-power-pro-11-550w-atx-2-4-bn250-a1318886.html?hloc=de

 

Silverstone Strider Platinum 550W is around 110€

https://geizhals.de/silverstone-strider-platinum-series-550w-atx-2-4-sst-st55f-pt-a1336720.html?hloc=de

 

And now lets go overkill and Titanium and cheap.

300€ for the STrider Titanium 1300W:
https://geizhals.de/silverstone-strider-titanium-series-1300w-atx-2-4-sst-st1300-ti-a1650415.html?hloc=de

 

Corsair AX1500i, 450€:

https://geizhals.de/corsair-professional-series-titanium-ax1500i-1500w-atx-2-4-a1052777.html?hloc=de

 

Yeah, sure, you don't loose anything. Just 'a bit' of Money. In this case around 200€ in the best case, 350€ worst case. 
And that's with ignoring the Xilence unit.

 

Now for the Efficiency at lower loads, lets look at 750W Straight Power E11 and 1600W Corsair AXi:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/corsair_ax1600i/s03.php

The Corsair si garbage under 15W Load, nothing you can mention. We are talking sub 50% area. Starts at 62% at 20W load and at 65W we are talking 83,5%

 

Now the Straight Power E11:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/be_quiet_straight_power_11/s03.php
73% at 20W, 87,9% at 65W.

 

And another time you were proven wrong with facts and hard numbers...

 

[Bhav]

Ok then, so how do I go about demanding more in depth PSU reviews and direct comparisons between units?

 

I wish there was something like pitting all the different capacities of the same type together so it was clear cut as to whether there were any differences in efficiency at the same loads or not, but I suppose this is probably too difficult to do.

 

Everything you read on different websites is never clear cut 100%, and there's always opposing views to all the things I've been reading about wattage and efficiency.

 

Sod it, just buy whatevers on the T1 list and titanium rated then.

[Stefan Payne]

5 minutes ago, Bhav said:

Ok then, so how do I go about demanding more in depth PSU reviews and direct comparisons between units?

Ask the Reviewers to use specific points that are the same for efficiency testing.

Something that Computerbase does:
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-12/high-end-netzteile-test-corsair-enermax-sea-sonic/3/#diagramm-effizienz-bei-230-volt-eingangsspannung-feste-lasten

 

(Effizienz 230V feste Lasten)

 

You can mention those and ask the reviewers to do what you want. If they want to listen to you and read your comment and you have a good argument, its possible they implement it.

 

[Moltke]

Hi, i recently bougth a Corsair CX450, but im having random crashes. it has any solution i can do or should i return it? Before i was using a PSU with 160w. If someone could help me i would be grateful

[pcnoob27]

Where does the Cooler master Masterwatt lite 600 be long in this list? 

https://www.amazon.com/MasterWatt-Lite-600W-Power-Supply/dp/B06ZXQM46P

[seon123]

29 minutes ago, Moltke said:

Hi, i recently bougth a Corsair CX450, but im having random crashes. it has any solution i can do or should i return it? Before i was using a PSU with 160w. If someone could help me i would be grateful

What kind of crashes?

[seon123]

5 minutes ago, pcnoob27 said:

Where does the Cooler master Masterwatt lite 600 be long in this list? 

https://www.amazon.com/MasterWatt-Lite-600W-Power-Supply/dp/B06ZXQM46P

It has been out for a while, and there aren't any proper reviews, so probably tier 6

[Energycore]

19 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

1. There are only a hand full of people per (major) country that know stuff about PSU and/or are interested in that shit.

There's like us and JG and RealHardTechX

 

18 minutes ago, pcnoob27 said:

Where does the Cooler master Masterwatt lite 600 be long in this list? 

https://www.amazon.com/MasterWatt-Lite-600W-Power-Supply/dp/B06ZXQM46P

No reviews for it. The general rules with PSUs that don't receive reviews is don't buy because the manufacturer was not confident in this unit enough to send a sample to anyone. They'd rather you didn't know how it performs (i.e. badly)

[Energycore]

43 minutes ago, Moltke said:

Hi, i recently bougth a Corsair CX450, but im having random crashes. it has any solution i can do or should i return it? Before i was using a PSU with 160w. If someone could help me i would be grateful

Hey!

 

Well your problem is probably not on the PSU. I suggest you post a thread on the Troubleshooting section detailing your crashes so we can tell you why they happen.

 

Welcome to the forums

[Stefan Payne]

4 hours ago, Energycore said:

There's like us and JG and RealHardTechX

Yep and JG is Multinational.

The most active ones are from the US, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Poland, Romania, Spain, Serbia and other countrys.

 

As are we, we are multinational and not just from one Country ^^

And not that many. I always say the same ~5 People or so recommending the good stuf that are interested in every review and improve their knowledge about that.

[LienusLateTips]

MasterWatt (not Lite) is DC-DC, could be actually pretty meh instead of i-wouldn't-buy-this!

[pcnoob27]

Where does the BeQuiet! System Power B8 450w belong?

https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/676