Are you tired of the miserable 30fps on Consoles? Cos the next PS4K and Xbox Scorpio will still be 30fps....

[509Vince]

Note: This isn't a rant.

 

Nintendo at least should show these two garbage trucks of Xbox and Playstation to maybe start on VR compatibility without needing another brick next to their console (Looking at you Sony Morpheus.) Shouldn't todays standards be put higher on these machines, like maybe if they really want to market $400 TV DVRs and $400 Blu-ray players they should look elsewhere. Instead focus on something around the area of 1080p 90fps if Xbox wants to really support the Rift. And 4k is still near the edge of being accessibly cheap to the average joe. Personally 4k isn't ready for consoles in my opinion, 1440p at something higher than 30fps seems like a good place to start before going to 4k 20-30fps.

 

So the two routes are go to 4k or go to VR support. It seems that the Xbox One and PS4 have gone the 4k route just cause it sounds safer than doing VR. If they think it is unsafe look at Oculus, HTC/Steam and Samsung taking risks with VR to advance the technology and an even bigger risk for AMD willing to make a VR ready card for $199. Even LG has taken risks like using the buttons on the back of the phone starting with the G2 and even still having a removable battery in 2016 on the G5. Though the G5 can be considered an absolute failure for LG, still try something out like nintendo like the 3DS. It was janky at first but everyone liked it and they went on making more games for it. The Wii did the same thing although it started to collapse in the market place due to the lack of 3rd party support which still plagues the Wii U today. You still have to consider VR is very new and in 3 years the price to get into it will be accessible to every gamer, which is probably what Sony and Microsoft are waiting for before they strike into the VR market.

 

So what should nintendo do to take over the world. Ahem I mean Console War III. First they need to show at E3 or Pax or something next year since it is coming out in 2017. Now rumors say that the NX won't support VR, now considering the last sentence in the paragraph above, that would make sense since the marketplace right now is a minefield and risks are only thing these corporate people see. Still I agree with waiting out a few years for VR to smooth out a bit, but since Sony and Microsoft are diving into VR a bit they should do so as well. So is 4k the answer to this situation, yes and no. Basically the answer to this is just see what nintendo does the the NX. Hell it isn't even replacing the Wii U.

[Sauron]

I'm not surprised. Why people are considering buying them is beyond me.

[Sauron]

14 minutes ago, ohitsluca said:

Right. Because general consumers that have a 4K TV are a.) going to know that they can play 1440p games and b.) will be happy they get to have one more device with no 4K content

/s

didn't seem to bother those with a 1080p tv when their xbone played games at 786p

[-BirdiE-]

11 minutes ago, ohitsluca said:

Right. Because general consumers that have a 4K TV are a.) going to know that they can play 1440p games and b.) will be happy they get to have one more device with no 4K content

/s

No one on this forum is saying they don't understand WHY Microsoft's marketing team has chosen to do this... They're saying that they'd rather have 1440p60.

Get some context, THEN comment.

[patrickjp93]

5 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

I strongly doubt we will see 4k games this gen.  The ps4/xbone struggle to maintain 1080p, and the bump to 4k would require quadrupling (or more)  of the horsepower of these consoles.  They can't add something like a 1080 into the xbox scorpio ( they'll stick with an apu)  because of cost,  thermal and size constraints .   And even if Moore's law was alive and well, it still isn't enough for a quadrupling of processing power,  not to mention Moore's law is pretty much dead at this point. 

It's not dead at all, but doubling transistors on a CPU with new instruction sets and power states is very different from doubling the transistors on a GPU where you could literally just double the amount of everything while maintaining the ISA and get roughly double the performance.

 

5 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

The issue is that the 290 is first of all not really a 4k gpu,  and it costs too much to manufacture. 

They can't add a 300$ gpu in a console that is supposed to launch at that price.  Not to mention the heat and power requirements of the 290 ( but this is irrelevant). The 290 is already ~440mm², and making a apu with one would result in a 600mm² chip.  Rx 480 solves this somewhat,  but the chip is still too expensive and too big for consoles. 

They could. The problem with the PS3 was losing a TON of money per console sale, like $200 per sale, not $50, such that game sales never really made up for it. When you order processors in bulk, discounts appear. This is why you can't build a PC with the same specs Dell can for the same price Dell can using brand new parts. Dell gets discounts for ordering 1 million units or more at a time. Sony and Microsoft could both opt to take a small loss on these new consoles and make more back on games.

 

5 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

You're all forgetting the fact that these GPUs won't be sold to both Microsoft and Sony at retail price. They don't need the whole card, just the GPU die which they will get with a nice price cut.

 

An RX480 costs us PC guys $200, but at most $80-$100 to Sony/Microsoft, if not cheaper.

It's not quite that big of a price cut, and actually since they're making APUs, this will be custom PCB and CPU configs too. It ends up being a wash on that standpoint. Where discounts come in is bulk ordering in the millions of units range.

[handymanshandle]

Eh I own a PS4 but I don't have a 4K TV nor do I have any interest in getting one either. Two of our TVs are 1080p "120hz" and one is 720p 60hz. If this "next gen" but still being the same generation does go "4K" or upscaled 4K could that mean they might be able to support 1080p 60fps? I still wouldn't upgrade because I planned on building a PC (hopefully in October).

[Kimmers]

Wouldn't the blame be put on the developers and not the consoles?

[deviant88]

LOL thats why you should stay away from consoles you have no control whatsoever, you're their bitch.

On pc i dont give fucks, enable DSR or make some custom resolutions 2k/4k and enjoy even on a 1080p screen.

[Sharkyx1]

It fairly obvious to me that these consoles are gonna run dynamic resolutions from 1080p to 3840 depending on the load

 

But there will still be 60 fps games, call of duty and DICE aren't about to start making games at 30fps because they could run 4k

[Sharkyx1]

1 hour ago, -BirdiE- said:

No one on this forum is saying they don't understand WHY Microsoft's marketing team has chosen to do this... They're saying that they'd rather have 1440p60.

Get some context, THEN comment.

Why cap it at 1440 

 

60 fps games will probably go above and below that depending on the scene

[ohitsluca]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

didn't seem to bother those with a 1080p tv when their xbone played games at 786p

Because it was upscaled to 1080p. If it was 1440p upscaled to 4K that would make some sense (most games will be upscaled to 4K anyways), but the original comment made it seem like it should be 1440p native

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, ohitsluca said:

Because it was upscaled to 1080p. If it was 1440p upscaled to 4K that would make some sense (most games will be upscaled to 4K anyways), but the original comment made it seem like it should be 1440p native

I think upscaling was implied, but maybe not. Either way I don't see a reason not to upscale, it's not very heavy on the hardware (and it doesn't improve that much).

[ohitsluca]

2 hours ago, -BirdiE- said:

No one on this forum is saying they don't understand WHY Microsoft's marketing team has chosen to do this... They're saying that they'd rather have 1440p60.

Get some context, THEN comment.

If you're going to say you'd rather have 1440p @ 60FPS, you should also take into account the realities of console gaming and the resolution at which most modern TV's run at.

Because those realities ARE THE CONTEXT.

I personally agree with you though... not for 1440p, but for 1080p 60FPS. That is what this console generation should have been, but it fell short. Most games don't hit 1080p, and most are 30FPS. Being so soon after the last generation, I'd have liked to see a console like Xbox One S come out that was slimmed down and given more power that let devs hit 1080p60FPS, with a 4K console coming 2-3 years from now. All games could be playable across all 3, but with varying graphical settings and resolutions. 

[Nowak]

6 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Don't call them 4k consoles.

 

It's not going to happen. They will release, and they will be able to claim "technically it does run at 4k" but in reality it won't. It will more than likely be 4k downsampled (or whatever the term is) to 1080p.

 

Not to mention that most people don't have 4k tv's?

Okami on the PS3 ran at 3840x2160 downsampled to 1920x1080, so there's something at least? Granted, that's a port of a PS2 game and it's still downsampled, but still, its native resolution is 4K.

[Mira Yurizaki]

14 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I'm a game dev major, and I really don't care about graphics on handhelds or consoles.  Maybe because I wasn't spoiled as I come from the NES/DOS youth.  The only time I get uptight about graphics/fps/resolutions is if my 390 can't run something that it should be able to, but that's usually SW related/a reason to be annoyed. 

Most console gamers don't really care all that much about graphics anyway. Well, they do to an extent, but not the obsessive level I've seen in PC gamers.

[Inkz]

8 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

This is what Phil Spencer had to say:

 

So basically, you'll get the same performance and graphics quality except the new resolution....... What a joke.......

 

 

 

 

Who would upgrade to a new console just cos it supports 4K @ 30fps gaming? That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.  If you're gonna make new consoles then make them 1440p 60fps consoles or 1080 60fps. No lowly 30fps......

 

 

http://wccftech.com/spencer-xb1ps4-are-in-the-same-performance-ballpark-as-neoscorpio-developers-will-target-them/

 

To be fair almost everyone upgrading to 4K with a console probably has a 1080p TV. I do not recall that many 2560x 1440 TVs being sold, or people with console who would want it.

[Mira Yurizaki]

What really SMH as a PC gamer (although I see myself more as a gamer who just happens to be a PC enthusiast) were people whining about an RPG that didn't run at 60FPS. A turn based RPG. Oh noes. I need to see all that frames for the action that'll be going on and react accordingly!

[Brennan Price]

Tbh, the guys that own consoles are generally doing it for ease of use. They won't really care whether or not they are getting top quality results, just as long as they are getting the maximum from their set-up/device and they are enjoying it then it is fine. Personally, I am a PC gamer but I also play on a console. Albeit not very often but I still play on the Xbox 360 or Xbox One with my brother for Minecraft and sometimes alone one of my desktop monitors of the two. Anyway, that was getting slightly off topic if people that owned consoles were bothered about not being able to get more than 30 FPS then they would either have A: come over to the PC side of gaming or B: created a huge uproar to Microsoft or Sony about how they feel misled or mistreated. But they clearly aren't, or at least they aren't making much of a big deal of it. Most of them would probably be PC gamers that are complaining, though.

[Atmos]

Okay, this is something I can somewhat understand.

I ran 4k@30-45fps for a long time. Having a 4k panel, and a single fury x.

 

The biggest difference is though, im one of the rare few people who prefer visual clarity, over butter smooth fps. Also, I never had my settings set to all low, and with max motion blur, like all consoles run at these days, so the games looked crystal clear. 4k on consoles is going to be garbage, and i can guarentee that so few people even have 4k tv's that the install base for this next mini-generation is going to be miniscule.

 

What most people are going to use it for, is the games that launch on it an play at 1080p and around 60fps. Not all devs will run their games at 4k, if they're smart then they will use the extra horses to get real performance out of the box and run games at good settings, with solid fps.

[Kamina]

I thought they said the point of the Scorpio was to allow developers to have more flexibility with their work and that they can decide on the resolution and graphic fidelity. This whole PR thing is confusing the hell out of everyone.

[Beskamir]

12 hours ago, ApolloFury said:

Honestly, playing Assassin's Creed Unity on my PC at 4K Ultra 30FPS I don't really mind, a lot games are not as affected by framerate but improves a lot in resolution, it makes walking around a virtual Paris a real treat. I can run it at 1080p 70FPS on a single R9 290 but I prefer 4K 30FPS for that game since its not a twitch shooter and I can just sit back and enjoy the scenery with more detail.

What version of Unity is optimized well enough to be played on ultra at 30fps and 4k with a 290? I could only manage 1440p iirc on my 290...

[Rune]

Quote

Again, this is exactly like on PC. No developer could ever target specifically the most powerful GPUs made by AMD and NVIDIA, because that would mean cutting out the mass of gamers who are using weaker hardware.

2007 Crytek wants a word with you.

[themctipers]

quite sad.

 

[Doobeedoo]

I knew it! Of course, how would they sell new consoles otherwise, saying 1080p60fps with better quality? No! 4K is their main marketing term, doesn't matter that it won't actually bring quality, masses won't think so.
Going over 1080p without increasing graphic quality makes no sense, 4K with lower quality than 1080p just makes no sense. Specially going to 4K with 30fps it's a joke.

What's next? 8K 30 fps with same shit quality and shit framerate where 1080p 60fps max visuals on PC will look better anyway? They gotta market new consoles somehow...

Though as far as Microsoft they could just make a non-custom hardware PC in form of console with certain tier of hardware and W10 with 'console' UI mode.

[marldorthegreat]

12 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

So it will really be 1080p upscaled to 4K at 30fps.

 

What a joke.

Most pc's cant even run 4k > 30fps. Upscaled from 1080p.