Are you tired of the miserable 30fps on Consoles? Cos the next PS4K and Xbox Scorpio will still be 30fps....

[AlTech]

The Xbox One and PS4 are consoles which generally target 30fps at anywhere from 720p to 1080p. So it with great dissatisfaction that the next gen consoles (Xbox Scorpio and PS4K) will remain at 30 frame per second BUT will increase graphical fidelity to 4K.

 

This is what Phil Spencer had to say:

Quote

I know exactly what you mean. I understand the sentiment and the dialogue. The performance spec of an Xbox One, of an Xbox One S – which is the same – or even a PS4 are roughly in the same ballpark relative to what a Scorpio is. And they have a large enough installed base of players and gamers that developers will target that audience with their new game.

And for us, all games that ship for Xbox One will ship for Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Scorpio. So those two don’t get left behind. You will still see the kind of creative problem solving on an Xbox One and Xbox One S that you’re talking about in a generational cycle.

 

So basically, you'll get the same performance and graphics quality except the new resolution....... What a joke.......

 

With both the Scorpio (targeting 6TF) and the PS4 Neo (rumored to target 4.20TF), we’re talking about significant performance jumps. What Spencer means here is that, after factoring in the resolution difference, the performance ballpark is similar. While PlayStation 4 and Xbox One games usually target a 1080P resolution (or even lower), their more powerful cousins will target 4K resolution.

 

That’s a massive increase in pixel output – 2.1 million (1080P) versus 8.3 million (4K). This alone will eat pretty much all of the additional power boasted by PS4 Neo and XB1 Scorpio.

As a result, it’s likely that we’ll get the very same games in terms of graphics quality with the notable except of much crisper resolution. That’s similar to what we usually see on PC, where a GTX 970 can play a game at 1080P@60FPS and Ultra settings with its 3.49 TFLOPS; to do the same thing at 4K, though, you’ll need the 9TFLOPS of the new GTX 1080. Still, between the 4K resolution and the HDR support the graphics will be a huge enhancement.

What won’t be enhanced with these new consoles is the ability of developers to create larger and richer worlds, which is one of the hallmarks of a new console generation. That’s because, as pointed out by Spencer, developers will inevitably have to target Xbox One and PlayStation 4 because of the huge installed base.

Again, this is exactly like on PC. No developer could ever target specifically the most powerful GPUs made by AMD and NVIDIA, because that would mean cutting out the mass of gamers who are using weaker hardware. The same would be true if developers targeted the new consoles instead of the old ones. Still, there’s a still a lot that creative developers can do within the constraints of current console hardware, so this is hardly a pressing issue.

 

Who would upgrade to a new console just cos it supports 4K @ 30fps gaming? That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.  If you're gonna make new consoles then make them 1440p 60fps consoles or 1080 60fps. No lowly 30fps......

 

 

http://wccftech.com/spencer-xb1ps4-are-in-the-same-performance-ballpark-as-neoscorpio-developers-will-target-them/

 

[nobelharvards]

Cinematic meme jokes?

[ApolloFury]

Honestly, playing Assassin's Creed Unity on my PC at 4K Ultra 30FPS I don't really mind, a lot games are not as affected by framerate but improves a lot in resolution, it makes walking around a virtual Paris a real treat. I can run it at 1080p 70FPS on a single R9 290 but I prefer 4K 30FPS for that game since its not a twitch shooter and I can just sit back and enjoy the scenery with more detail.

[captain cactus]

So it will really be 1080p upscaled to 4K at 30fps.

 

What a joke.

[MilkJugg24]

I don't think they understand exactly how powerful and expensive the hardware needs to be in order to do 4K gaming.

 

The games will probably be at 4K in the UI, but will more than likely use heavy downscaling and some crazy anti-aliasing methods to make it not seem shitty.

 

The console will be closer to a grand if they want to do what they're saying...

 

I feel like the console wars being in 4K instead of 1080p 60fps is just stupid. 

[AlTech]

3 minutes ago, nobelharvards said:

Cinematic meme jokes?

 

Here's something that I need to make more popular!

 

 

Not to say that I am a console peasant. but that they will be pissed off by this.

[Coaxialgamer]

I strongly doubt we will see 4k games this gen.  The ps4/xbone struggle to maintain 1080p, and the bump to 4k would require quadrupling (or more)  of the horsepower of these consoles.  They can't add something like a 1080 into the xbox scorpio ( they'll stick with an apu)  because of cost,  thermal and size constraints .   And even if Moore's law was alive and well, it still isn't enough for a quadrupling of processing power,  not to mention Moore's law is pretty much dead at this point. 

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Coaxialgamer said:

I strongly doubt we will see 4k games this gen.  The ps4/xbone struggle to maintain 1080p, and the bump to 4k would require quadrupling (or more)  of the horsepower of these consoles.  They can't add something like a 1080 into the xbox scorpio ( they'll stick with an apu)  because of cost,  thermal and size constraints .   And even if Moore's law was alive and well, it still isn't enough for a quadrupling of processing power,  not to mention Moore's law is pretty much dead at this point. 

I said next gen. The scorpio and PS4K are the 4K consoles.

[Coaxialgamer]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I said next gen. The scorpio and PS4K are the 4K consoles.

That's what I meant.  Ideally they would aim for 1440p 60fps,  but i guess it doesn't have the same ring to it as "4K"  or "UHD" 

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Coaxialgamer said:

That's what I meant.  Ideally they would aim for 1440p 60fps,  but i guess it doesn't have the same ring to it as "4K"  or "UHD" 

Well you can say "Quad HD".. ............. But that doesn't sound the same as 4K.

[ApolloFury]

8 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

I strongly doubt we will see 4k games this gen.  The ps4/xbone struggle to maintain 1080p, and the bump to 4k would require quadrupling (or more)  of the horsepower of these consoles.  They can't add something like a 1080 into the xbox scorpio ( they'll stick with an apu)  because of cost,  thermal and size constraints .   And even if Moore's law was alive and well, it still isn't enough for a quadrupling of processing power,  not to mention Moore's law is pretty much dead at this point. 

Why not? A R9 290 TFLOPs is around 5TFLOPs and it run games at Ultra settings in 4K 30FPS no anti-aliasing. Xbox Scorpio is announced to have 6 TFLOPs or more + console optimisation + developers can knock a setting down or two which they are already doing now.

 

Just turn off MSAA, and lower the shadow resolution from Ultra to High in most games and you can achieve 35-40FPS in 4K with a R9 290 even in newer games.

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, ApolloFury said:

Why not? A R9 290 TFLOPs is around 5TFLOPs and it run games at Ultra settings in 4K 30FPS no anti-aliasing. Xbox Scorpio is announced to have 6 TFLOPs or more + console optimisation + developers can knock a setting down or two.

 

Just turn off MSAA, and lower the shadow resolution from Ultra to High in most games and you can achieve 30-40FPS in 4K with a R9 290 even in newer games.

Because that kind of card costs money........

[ApolloFury]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Because that kind of card costs money........

I am just saying if a processor with 4.9 TFLOPs can run 4K at 30FPS High/Ultra settings, then I am sure a 6+ TFLOPs processor can achieve 4K 30FPS too. He is saying it can't, when a 4.9 TFLOPs processor already can.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 minute ago, ApolloFury said:

Why not? A R9 290 TFLOPs is around 5TFLOPs and it run games at Ultra settings in 4K 30FPS no anti-aliasing. Xbox Scorpio is announced to have 6 TFLOPs or more + console optimisation + developers can knock a setting down or two.

The issue is that the 290 is first of all not really a 4k gpu,  and it costs too much to manufacture. 

They can't add a 300$ gpu in a console that is supposed to launch at that price.  Not to mention the heat and power requirements of the 290 ( but this is irrelevant). The 290 is already ~440mm², and making a apu with one would result in a 600mm² chip.  Rx 480 solves this somewhat,  but the chip is still too expensive and too big for consoles. 

[Coaxialgamer]

2 minutes ago, ApolloFury said:

I am just saying if a processor with 4.9 TFLOPs can run 4K at 30FPS High/Ultra settings, then I am sure a 6+ TFLOPs processor can achieve 4K 30FPS too. He is saying it can't, when a 4.9 TFLOPs processor already can.

The 290 can't really run modern games at 4k at sustainable framerates,  let alone high settings.  Older games can run,  but stuff like rottr and similar are way too demanding to be run at 4k on a 290. 390x has 6 Tflops and struggles to maintain good frameratea at 1440p, let alone at 4k

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

The issue is that the 290 is first of all not really a 4k gpu,  and it costs too much to manufacture. 

They can't add a 300$ gpu in a console that is supposed to launch at that price.  Not to mention the heat and power requirements of the 290 ( but this is irrelevant). The 290 is already ~440mm², and making a apu with one would result in a 600mm² chip.  Rx 480 solves this somewhat,  but the chip is still too expensive and too big for consoles. 

RX 470

 

Also, saying one GPU has X Terflops is kinda like saying..... this car has a v8 engine instead of another car with a v6 engine.

 

it's not awfully meaningful.

[ApolloFury]

4 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

The 290 can't really run modern games at 4k at sustainable framerates,  let alone high settings.  Older games can run,  but stuff like rottr and similar are way too demanding to be run at 4k on a 290. 390x has 6 Tflops and struggles to maintain good frameratea at 1440p, let alone at 4k

I have a R9 290 and I can say I run games like Assassin's Creed Unity, Syndicate, etc at 4K 30FPS at Ultra minus MSAA and bump down shadow resolution from Ultra to High. Needless to say Assassin's Creed games are badly optimised.

 

Consoles are only running High settings anyway so they could do that to achieve 4K 30FPS + low-level optimisation.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

RX 470

Still too expensive for mass integration in consoles,  especially since M$ and sony are now used to not losing money on console sales. 

And rx 470 is polaris 10.  They wouldn't use a cut down chip in a console (and it doesn't have anywhere near the horsepower for 4k) 

[Coaxialgamer]

1 minute ago, ApolloFury said:

I have a R9 290 and I can say I run games like Assassin's Creed Unity, Syndicate, etc at 4K 30FPS at Ultra minus MSAA and bump down shadow resolution from Ultra to High. Needless to say Assassin's Creed games are badly optimised.

What about newer games?  I can guarantee you mosts newer gamea like rottr or the Witcher 3 will not run at 4k.

[captain cactus]

You're all forgetting the fact that these GPUs won't be sold to both Microsoft and Sony at retail price. They don't need the whole card, just the GPU die which they will get with a nice price cut.

 

An RX480 costs us PC guys $200, but at most $80-$100 to Sony/Microsoft, if not cheaper.

[BuckGup]

32 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Doubt they will run true 4k either. Probably upscaled.

I don't give two shits about the consoles themselves. I don't own one.

But the repercussions for PC ports, sure is annoying.

It is true 4K output of streaming services like netflix and youtube. All thanks to just a slap of hdmi 2.0 on it. God why won't they learn

[ApolloFury]

7 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

What about newer games?  I can guarantee you mosts newer gamea like rottr or the Witcher 3 will not run at 4k.

Mirror Edge Catalyst (though you need more than 4GB RAM), Battlefront. The Division.

Just bump things like shadow resolution and MSAA to one level down.

Side note: Consoles are only running High settings in most games anyway so they could do that to achieve 4K 30FPS + low-level optimisation.

 

EDIT: There are 4K benchmarks and graphs out there, though you probably could only find R9 390s than 290s.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, ApolloFury said:

Mirror Edge Catalyst (though you need more than 4GB RAM), Battlefront. The Division.

Just bump down things like shadow resolution and MSAA. 

Side note: Consoles are only running High settings in most games anyway so they could do that to achieve 4K 30FPS + low-level optimisation.

The only optimization I can think of is the developer giving Sony or Microsoft a good time with their .........um........ hands  and then them giving away more super speed eSRAM.

[LAwLz]

Isn't the Xbone Scorpio suppose to launch in late 2017? It's like a year and a half left for that. By putting in some cut down Polaris or Vega chip, keeping the detail settings to medium and targeting 30 FPS  don't see 4K being that hard to achieve.

 

Can't say I agree with Microsoft on this. Making a more powerful console is great, because the current one is awful. I think the extra performance should go towards higher FPS and increasing details. I think that would benefit the average customer far more than just increasing the resolution, which will be downscaled to 1080p for most people anyway. It just ends up being really inefficient AA at that point.

[AlTech]

5 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

You're all forgetting the fact that these GPUs won't be sold to both Microsoft and Sony at retail price. They don't need the whole card, just the GPU die which they will get with a nice price cut.

 

An RX480 costs us PC guys $200, but at most $80-$100 to Sony/Microsoft, if not cheaper.

The TDP is still too high for MS.......