FBI 'could force Apple to hand over private key'

[captain cactus]

1 minute ago, Admiral Naismith said:

Shameless plug is shameless

 

Seriously though, another part of the war going on. I have no idea what these departments are getting at. They're being so... sloppy.

It's called having laws that were made in the 20th century for 21st century technology, and instead of adapting the laws to 21st century tech they want to bring the tech back to the late 90s.

 

That, and they're just a bunch of bricks, and that's an insult to bricks.

[ShadowCaptain]

3 minutes ago, Ykno said:

SNIP

What you said, regarding "getting hold of my info" is the exact reason we NEED privacy, that we need end to end encryption etc

without it, its just the wild west, if there is a backdoor for the FBI, there is a backdoor for criminals and worse

EDIT: also why the name calling? are you 5? either be civil or leave the discussion (or get reported) its your choice

[Admiral Naismith]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

humane snip for the benefit of everyone

I don't usually do this here... But what the actual fuck.

 

 

[Ykno]

4 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Well I generally have a disdain for Apple, their products and the people that buy them but in this case I stand by them wholeheartedly.

 

the FBI & the DoJ (and infact the US Govt in general, nay all Govts in general) have gotten to a point where they think they are untouchable and can go around do what they like to who they like with zero regard for the laws which they create and they enforce onto everyone else in society.

 

I personally love to see the FBI put on trial for all the illegal crap its pulled over the last few decades. If we are bound by their laws they why the hell are they exempt from them?

 

I know its only a movie but Enemy Of The State kinda called this one years ago, with great power comes great responsibility and I don't think the ones who have the power are responsible enough to warrant it.

FBI are bound by law yes they do illegal shit but so do you and i ? the FBI have to answer to upol or soemthign like that cant remember there name exsactly but there the people who dont answer to anyone!

[BoomBrush]

i found this very interesting, but do people care so much about their privacy they are willing to be responsible to future terrorism acts that, assuming this phone contains valid data, may have been prevented? i got no idea about the legal system but if its in the sake of saving lives compared to " theres a possibility somebody might rob me or get my data" wouldnt the fbi just kick down apple's door and just force them to do what they say or they will arrest them for terrorism or something?

 

in my opinion it seems lives are more important than data. i dunno about this!

[stconquest]

@Ykno

 

Go away.   Far away...  Farther...  Farther...

[Admiral Naismith]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

FBI are bound by law yes they do illegal shit but so do you and i ? the FBI have to answer to upol or soemthign like that cant remember there name exsactly but there the people who dont answer to anyone!

My illegal shit:

Parking in a no parking zone to pick up medicine for my cat.

 

FBI's illegal shit:

Ruining lives that result in deaths, mass cover ups, etc. using my tax dollars.

 

No offense my friend but I don't think you understand our off kilter law enforcement has gotten in the past twenty years. Law enforcement really doesn't answer to anyone at the moment. No one anyways who is willing or capable of doing more than covering their asses.

[ShadowCaptain]

1 minute ago, BoomBrush said:

SNIP

You are assuming that by giving up your human rights, you are stopping terrorism

Should we stop freedom of speech too? that means terrorists can no longer say what they want... but neither can you

Example, the government make encrypted messages illegal..... that means your messages are no longer secure

What stops the crinimals and terrorists sending encrypted messages through the dark web? nothing, they will break the law anyway

there are 7 billion people on the planet, and very few of them are terrorists, forcing 99% of the population to give up their rights, is something I cannot agree with

[Ykno]

1 hour ago, stconquest said:

@Ykno

 

Go away.   Far away...  Farther...  Farther...

 

the simple fact is you dotn have privacy get over it take your tin hat of get out of your little bubble!

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, BoomBrush said:

i found this very interesting, but do people care so much about their privacy they are willing to be responsible to future terrorism acts that, assuming this phone contains valid data, may have been prevented? i got no idea about the legal system but if its in the sake of saving lives compared to " theres a possibility somebody might rob me or get my data" wouldnt the fbi just kick down apple's door and just force them to do what they say or they will arrest them for terrorism or something?

 

in my opinion it seems lives are more important than data. i dunno about this!

I would like you to prove that ridding electronic devices of encryption will save lives?
 

I know it won't, but I would like to hear why you think the way you do.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Admiral Naismith said:

My illegal shit:

Parking in a no parking zone to pick up medicine for my cat.

 

FBI's illegal shit:

Ruining lives that result in deaths, mass cover ups, etc. using my tax dollars.

 

No offense my friend but I don't think you understand our off kilter law enforcement has gotten in the past twenty years. Law enforcement really doesn't answer to anyone at the moment. No one anyways who is willing or capable of doing more than covering their asses.

They simply quote the current buzzword "terrorism" and they're given the power to do whatever they like. Honestly I reckon if the FBI went to a judge and said they've found out that the fecal matter of terrorists contains more of x chemical than that of normal citizens the judge would give them powers to fucking anal probe anybody they want to label as a terrorist.

 

Things have gotten out of control and there is nobody who can get things back under control, I mean its looking like Donald Trump is gonna take over America soon, the man who wanted to ban muslims from his country. You think he is gonna take control of the FBI?

[Admiral Naismith]

6 minutes ago, BoomBrush said:

i found this very interesting, but do people care so much about their privacy they are willing to be responsible to future terrorism acts that, assuming this phone contains valid data, may have been prevented? i got no idea about the legal system but if its in the sake of saving lives compared to " theres a possibility somebody might rob me or get my data" wouldnt the fbi just kick down apple's door and just force them to do what they say or they will arrest them for terrorism or something?

 

in my opinion it seems lives are more important than data. i dunno about this!

History has shown consistently, actually in nearly every f*cking instance, when you start stripping rights (even in the name of 'saving lives' or 'protecting the children') you end up hurting more people than you save. KGB, CIA, every mob ever, etc. are all good examples. WW1 U.S. where German immigrants were sometimes locked up because they were 'dissenters'  (i.e. not entirely supportive of the U.S. going to war with their home nation). The Japanese being interned during WW2 in the U.S. 'in case they were terrorists'... So many examples.

[Ykno]

1 hour ago, Admiral Naismith said:

My illegal shit:

Parking in a no parking zone to pick up medicine for my cat.

 

FBI's illegal shit:

Ruining lives that result in deaths, mass cover ups, etc. using my tax dollars.

 

No offense my friend but I don't think you understand our off kilter law enforcement has gotten in the past twenty years. Law enforcement really doesn't answer to anyone at the moment. No one anyways who is willing or capable of doing more than covering their asses.

i do alot worse shit than that but ye but ye ur right i dont understand

[RedRound2]

16 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Especially you

 

Of course I was overemphasising to make a point, its upto you what you choose to use but why would you choose to buy an Apple?

 

Still that's a whole different topic

Even I like Apple products.

As ShadowCaptain said I wouldn't want to turn this into another flame war, so you can PM me if you like to hear my opinions and experiances with them

[CyanideInsanity]

5 minutes ago, Ykno said:

because im right

 

the simple fact is you dotn have privacy get over it take your tin hat of get out of your little bubble!

 

the FBI need imformation of that phone to put terroist behind bar and you want to argue and side with apple to protect that terroist becuase your scared your privacy may be a threat!

 

move past this if you live you life worrying about everything and worry taht ur under attack all the time your life becomes not worth living you become shettlered paranoid and affraid .

just acsepet what will be will be!

and stop defending terroist and protect your fellow man! as is privacy worth having when your dead?

 

It starts with wanting to get full info on a terrorist. Remember the government isn't some special body as you might believe. Governments ARE comprised of humans, and like the rest of us(and as history clearly shows) are far from being infallible.

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

because im right

 

the simple fact is you dotn have privacy get over it take your tin hat of get out of your little bubble!

 

the FBI need imformation of that phone to put terroist behind bar and you want to argue and side with apple to protect that terroist becuase your scared your privacy may be a threat!

 

move past this if you live you life worrying about everything and worry taht ur under attack all the time your life becomes not worth living you become shettlered paranoid and affraid .

just acsepet what will be will be!

and stop defending terroist and protect your fellow man! as is privacy worth having when your dead?

The fact that you are wrong is not the problem here.  You, yourself are a problem in this thread.  You talk down to others because you are hiding behind that little keyboard of yours.  Acting the way you are in the presence of others (at least others like me) would result in a fast track to shutting you up. 

 

You don't have any idea what the FBI "need".  Stop talking out of your ass.

[Admiral Naismith]

4 minutes ago, Ykno said:

and stop defending terroist and protect your fellow man! as is privacy worth having when your dead?

"Stop defending terrorists and sell out your fellow man! What are your basic rights as a human being worth when the reactionaries come?"

 

[RedRound2]

I just wish this problem is given more publicity with people like John Oliver fully explaining what's actually going on

It's one of those things where anyone can be easily swayed by the FBI as their request seems honest

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, Ykno said:

i do alot worse shit than that but ye but ye ur right i dont understand the law or claim to i do understand tho i would give um my privacy to keep my life and im not sayign that unlcokign this phoen wills ave my life but you never know the world is small and this terroist could be set free and set off another bomb and i happen to be in that wrong place and the wrong time and lose my life but that could have been avoided by unlcokign this phoen and locking up this person! far fetch i know but not impossible
and i knwo the fbi have done bad shit but this is one thing im happy with them to do to protect me and my fellow man

They're not protecting you, don't be so naive. They don't give a fuck about you, or me, or anybody else except themselves. They want power and control over every aspect of our lives so they can get more power over us. I'm not even sure if they know what the end game is in all this, they're just playing the hand they were dealt and its us normal folk who are suffering.

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

I just wish this problem is given more publicity with people like John Oliver fully explaining what's actually going on

It's one of those things where anyone can be easily swayed by the FBI as their request seems honest

Yeah, but then we have to deal with the true idiocy of the global community as well.  Pros and cons, it is what we get to assess when these things surface.  Anyone that cared already knew about this type of stuff.  Being out in the open means public support from less than informed people.

[Admiral Naismith]

3 minutes ago, Ykno said:

 i dont understand the law or claim to i do

You literally just stated you do not understand what is at hand. Then you followed up by saying 'I'm scared I give up rights now'. My friend, you're exactly what every facist and dictator dream of.

[Okjoek]

It's just the age old debate of freedom VS security. You can't have too much of one without the other and expect people to be happy. I'm naturally a less independent person who prefers community and collectivization over paranoid fear of government always watching me. I don't treat the government as an alien invader to be paranoid around and I try to present myself as the most efficient model of a citizen as I can.

[Admiral Naismith]

2 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

It's just the age old debate of freedom VS security. You can't have too much of one without the other and expect people to be happy. I'm naturally a less independent person who prefers community and collectivization over paranoid fear of government always watching me. I don't treat the government as an alien invader to be paranoid around and I try to present myself as the most efficient model of a citizen as I can.

This isn't freedom vs security, this is "do people deserve any freedom at all". The pendulum is so stupidly swung toward security right now that the basic concept of freedom is at risk. A lot of sh*t has happened in twenty years and most people don't really know how far gone it really is. I'm NOT a tin-foil hat type. Actually I'm a critic of that type since I tend to lean on the authoritarian side of things... but the current state of law enforcement and technology is beyond what any reasonable person could consider to be a even remotely fair balance.

[Nineshadow]

26 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

They can, and they are fighting and refusing it, unless the US a prepared to shut down their biggest corporation

Considering the US started a war because of terrorism and other interests , who the hell knows.

 

My point is that the FBI had a warrant to search the phone. Privacy is a non-issue in FBI's case.

 

But the thing is that it could have future implications for privacy. If FBI wants a backdoor for this kinds of situations , what's stopping them from using it even when they don't have a warrant? Even more terrifying , what would happen if the backdoor would get leaked?

[BoomBrush]

im sorry, i cant figure out how to reply to more than one message and this may be my last reply on this topic, so many notifications i cant keep up. i will keep reading but 15 new replies i gotta go through.

 

@ShadowCaptain

i see what you are saying, we (being that 99%) shouldnt have to go out our way and give up our rights to prevent the possibility or a terrorism act (right?). i tend to agree with you, but i think we are moving more towards a society where we are being forced to accept the fact we have no choice in whether we want our rights or not.

 

for me at least, i would be happy to give up private information assuming it would help the fbi. for other people however, i can understand how even if they have nothing to hide shouldnt give up their data for the sake of the fbi just assuming they are terrorists. however, in the future we may no longer have a choice.

 

@stconquest

well, that wasnt exactly what i suggested. i asked if people were willing to give up information in exchange for security essentially, and shadowcaptain made a good point of how people shouldnt have to give up information because the entire population is "suspected terrorists". i was just mentioning that are people willing to give up information for the sake of possibly saving lives, and no matter that answer to that - do the fbi even care what we think? will the fbi completely ignore everything about privacy and just force apple to give over the data? you asked whether us giving information to electronics will even save lives, and that is a very good think to consider. there is absolutely no way to suggest it will. it may, it may not, but what i suspect is the people in charge arent going to take any chances and have some act which could have been avoided.