FBI 'could force Apple to hand over private key'

[stconquest]

7 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

It's just the age old debate of freedom VS security. You can't have too much of one without the other and expect people to be happy. I'm naturally a less independent person who prefers community and collectivization over paranoid fear of government always watching me. I don't treat the government as an alien invader to be paranoid around and I try to present myself as the most efficient model of a citizen as I can.

It is not about being scared of the government.  It is about holding the governing body to a standard of checks and balances.  People in government (USA) are, more often than not, funded by corporate interests.  While doing there job it is often easy to see that they do not serve their constituency as much as the money. 

 

Flint (Michigan) has been in the news recently.  The governing body poisoned the freaking water for over a year.  Do you feel it is okay to give governments like this more power?

[Castdeath97]

2 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

Considering the US started a war because of terrorism and other interests , who the hell knows.

 

My point is that the FBI had a warrant to search the phone. Privacy is a non-issue in FBI's case.

 

But the thing is that it could have future implications for privacy. If FBI wants a backdoor for this kinds of situations , what's stopping them from using it even when they don't have a warrant? Even more terrifying , what would happen if the backdoor would get leaked?

They had other 11 phones as well that they wanted Apple to unlock for them, so yeah...

[ShadowCaptain]

3 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

Considering the US started a war because of terrorism and other interests , who the hell knows.

 

My point is that the FBI had a warrant to search the phone. Privacy is a non-issue in FBI's case.

 

But the thing is that it could have future implications for privacy. If FBI wants a backdoor for this kinds of situations , what's stopping them from using it even when they don't have a warrant? Even more terrifying , what would happen if the backdoor would get leaked?

 

Absolutely, if you could 100% categorically  guarantee the FBI Only wanted information on one phone, I might agree with the FBI

but we know thats not the case, first its this phone, then there is another terror attack, so Apple unlock more phones, then an android phone is used, so Google have to do it, then its a criminal, and it just grows until you basically have no security

[Ykno]

1 hour ago, stconquest said:

The fact that you are wrong is not the problem here.  You, yourself are a problem in this thread.  You talk down to others because you are hiding behind that little keyboard of yours.  Acting the way you are in the presence of others (at least others like me) would result in a fast track to shutting you up. 

 

You don't have any idea what the FBI "need".  Stop talking out of your ass.

lol i really doubt i hide behind a keybaord by ye cool nice generic insult

 

1 hour ago, Admiral Naismith said:

You literally just stated you do not understand what is at hand. Then you followed up by saying 'I'm scared I give up rights now'. My friend, you're exactly what every facist and dictator dream of.

 we live in a dictator ship no matter what country ur in u let a goverment dictate what you can do so regradless of if its one man or a govemenet of men there still dictating your life

[Admiral Naismith]

4 minutes ago, Ykno said:

im not scared to give up my rights as i now im stronge enough mental and physically to survivie with out hiding behind human rights

"I am strong enough to survive without hiding behind human rights"

What the actual, literal fuck did I just read?

 

[ShadowCaptain]

4 minutes ago, BoomBrush said:

 

@ShadowCaptain

, we (being that 99%) shouldnt have to go out our way and give up our rights to prevent the possibility or a terrorism act (right?).  our rights or not.

 

for me at least, i would be happy to give up private information assuming it would help the fbi. for other people however,

Sort of, its more than that, really we are just letting the terroirsts win, since we are giving up so much

you might willingly give up information, but this would not give people the option, they would just HAVE your information, willing or not

the goverment must be put in check
 

[Ykno]

1 minute ago, ShadowCaptain said:

 

Absolutely, if you could 100% categorically  guarantee the FBI Only wanted information on one phone, I might agree with the FBI

but we know thats not the case, first its this phone, then there is another terror attack, so Apple unlock more phones, then an android phone is used, so Google have to do it, then its a criminal, and it just grows until you basically have no security

andorid phones have a backdoor! there about as privet as a hookers wizard sleeve

[stconquest]

13 minutes ago, BoomBrush said:

im sorry, i cant figure out how to reply to more than one message and this may be my last reply on this topic, so many notifications i cant keep up. i will keep reading but 15 new replies i gotta go through.

 

@ShadowCaptain

i see what you are saying, we (being that 99%) shouldnt have to go out our way and give up our rights to prevent the possibility or a terrorism act (right?). i tend to agree with you, but i think we are moving more towards a society where we are being forced to accept the fact we have no choice in whether we want our rights or not.

 

for me at least, i would be happy to give up private information assuming it would help the fbi. for other people however, i can understand how even if they have nothing to hide shouldnt give up their data for the sake of the fbi just assuming they are terrorists. however, in the future we may no longer have a choice.

 

@stconquest

well, that wasnt exactly what i suggested. i asked if people were willing to give up information in exchange for security essentially, and shadowcaptain made a good point of how people shouldnt have to give up information because the entire population is "suspected terrorists". i was just mentioning that are people willing to give up information for the sake of possibly saving lives, and no matter that answer to that - do the fbi even care what we think? will the fbi completely ignore everything about privacy and just force apple to give over the data? you asked whether us giving information to electronics will even save lives, and that is a very good think to consider. there is absolutely no way to suggest it will. it may, it may not, but what i suspect is the people in charge arent going to take any chances and have some act which could have been avoided.

The "people in charge" are the reason we are in this mess.  They have been killing innocent men, women and children steadily for over ten years now.  Do you not have any compassion for what the populous countries like Afganistan/Iraq/Palestine/Libya/Syria/etc... have to go through?  A lot of those middle-eastern governments were already rotten to the core, then you have the coalition military forces bombing them to high heaven on top of that.

 

Do you think these "terrorists", you mention, recruit because of their belief in some god?  Hell no.  Our western governments have been killing them.  What we do to them is the only recruitment tool they need.

 

Decide:  Kill them all or wake the fuck up.

[CyanideInsanity]

6 minutes ago, Ykno said:

! so im not scared and a dictator dream dude we live in a dictator ship no matter what country ur in u let a goverment dictate what you can do so regradless of if its one man or a govemenet of men there still dictating your life

Well then, go to north korea and publicly say, and in earshot of a cop, that kim jong un is a terrible person and leader. The outcome will be different there, than compared to here in the USA.

[Ykno]

1 hour ago, Admiral Naismith said:

"I am strong enough to survive without hiding behind human rights"

What the actual, literal fuck did I just read?

basicly my brother <-- ( lol i was cleanign up my stupid post taht i was puttign to wind peopel up but lol i said MY BROTHER ha i been watchign that oj show to much )

[Ykno]

2 minutes ago, CyanideInsanity said:

Well then, go to north korea and publicly say, and in earshot of a cop, that kim jong un is a terrible person and leader. The outcome will be different there, than compared to here in the USA.

im not sure where thats relivent to what i said? i said we live in a dictatorship didnt say we live in a bad one or a good one im just saying someone is dictating our lives

[Admiral Naismith]

Just now, Ykno said:

 i dont need to tell people i have the right to free speach if i want to talk ill talk i dont need to tell people i have a right to do what ever i will do it im sayign im strong enough to cope as i ahve nothign to hide or lose for having a apple product have a back door in

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.

 

[CyanideInsanity]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

im not sure where thats relivent to what i said? i said we live in a dictatorship didnt say we live in a bad one or a good one im just saying someone is dictating our lives

North korea is basically the epitome of what a government should NEVER be able to become. Giving up our rights is one of the first steps for a government to go from being simply incompetent at doing its job, to being outright evil.

 

5 minutes ago, Ykno said:

basicly my brother im saying i dont need to remind people i have human rights to privacy i have nothign to hide i dont need to tell people i have the right to free speach if i want to talk ill talk i dont need to tell people i have a right to do what ever i will do it im sayign im strong enough to cope as i ahve nothign to hide or lose for having a apple product have a back door in

The concept of basic human rights extends far beyond privacy...

[Castdeath97]

10 minutes ago, Ykno said:

basicly my brother im saying i dont need to remind people i have human rights to privacy i have nothign to hide i dont need to tell people i have the right to free speach if i want to talk ill talk i dont need to tell people i have a right to do what ever i will do it im sayign im strong enough to cope as i ahve nothign to hide or lose for having a apple product have a back door in

You see the problem is with the "You have nothing to hide" statement is that you are declaring that you have no private space, we all have something to hide, we have private spaces! Why do you think bathrooms have doors? Why do we keep secrets? We all have stuff we don't want others to see!

 

Simply having something to hide doesn't mean you intended to do harm with it, it means you have privacy!

[ShadowCaptain]

10 minutes ago, Ykno said:

basicly my brother im saying i dont need to remind people i have human rights to privacy i have nothign to hide i dont need to tell people i have the right to free speach if i want to talk ill talk i dont need to tell people i have a right to do what ever i will do it im sayign im strong enough to cope as i ahve nothign to hide or lose for having a apple product have a back door in

 

"i have nothing to hide"

So, if you have nothing to say do you give up your right to free speech?
You have nothing to write, so no freedom of press etc

Basically, because you are NOT hiding anything, you are happy to give up all of your rights

OK tell you what, in order to reduce terrorism, they will put a uniformed police officer inside your house 24/7 and surveillance in your bathroom, that wont annoy you and make you feel opressed

Seriously its a line that the goverment have no right to cross, if I want to talk to my friend via text message on my iPhone, send some nudes whatever, then I should be able to do that safe in the knowledge it is 100% safe (or at least as safe as possible in this day and age) - that information is MINE, it belongs to me, and is private

ok, maybe a terrorist can send a text message, does that mean all text messages should be read?

what if terrorists sent a letter? can the FBI start reading my mail? 

terrorists can talk quietly in the street, should they install microphones?

Terrorism is a threat yes, but giving away human rights is a bigger threat to society and the future of information

[Bensemus]

37 minutes ago, Ykno said:

id give up my rights ! im not scared to give up my rights as i now im stronge enough mental and physically to survivie with out hiding behind human rights

People are dying to try to get human right.... How can you think giving up your human rights makes you strong?

[Ykno]

Right people you know i was fucking about right?

i was just sayign anything i could think of that was stupid enough to spark a reaction but still beliveable lol as my day at work is going slow.

 

What i really belive is:

 

Apple should give the back door to the FBI if they the FBI can prove that it will be used once and destroyed so maybe a Apple engineer work on the phoen while a FBI agent sits next him to veiw the info but has no control on the device or a one time back door that gets patched in a update as soon as FBI is done so that backdoor cant be leaked out and hurt other peoples privacy.

but if not Apple should stand by there views but as long as there willing to take the reprecusions of that terroist walking free. (if the only evidience that the terriorts can be convicet on is on that phone)

but i stand by what will be will be and we should all stop worry about this and just let it play out and see what happens.

[ShadowCaptain]

6 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

People are dying to try to get human right.... How can you think giving up your human rights makes you strong?

Maybe he missed out on his right to an education

or perhaps should give his right of freedom of speech and food 

I mean, hes strong enough to survive 

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

Right people you know i was fucking about right?

i was just sayign anything i could think of that was stupid enough to spark a reaction but still beliveable lol as my day at work is going slow.

 

What i really belive is:

 

apple should give the back door to the fbi if they the fbi can prove that it will be used once and destroyed so maybe a apple engineer work ont he phoen while a fbi agent sits next him to veiw the info but has no control on the device.

but if not apple should stand by there views but as long as there willing to take the reprecusions of that terroist walking free. (if the only evidience that the terriorts can be convicet on is on that phone)

but i stand by what will be will be and we should all stop worry about this and just let it play out and see what happens.

Wow, you really think that will fly?

 

How about a plot twist?  The FBI could gain access to the phone without Apple's "help".

[Ykno]

Just now, stconquest said:

Wow, you really think that will fly?

 

How about a plot twist?  The FBI could gain access to the phone without Apple's "help".

Then thats a diffrent case altogether.

and thats where Apple could open up law suits again the FBI for breach of there Terms

 

but i think if Apple and the FBI can work together to solve this and catch this terroist then im all for it.

but if they cant work together or it puts other people (apple product users) at risk then i say no!

 

but i hope that they can work together to work out a way to get the realivent data of the phone to lock up this terroist.

[Ykno]

6 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Maybe he missed out on his right to an education

or perhaps should give his right of freedom of speech and food 

I mean, hes strong enough to survive 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Ykno said:

Right people you know i was fucking about right?

i was just sayign anything i could think of that was stupid enough to spark a reaction but still beliveable lol as my day at work is going slow.

 

 

[ShadowCaptain]

1 minute ago, Ykno said:

SNIP

ITS JUST A PRANK BRO

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, Ykno said:

Then thats a diffrent case altogether.

and thats where Apple could open up law suits again the FBI for breach of there Terms

 

but i think if Apple and the FBI can work together to solve this and catch this terroist then im all for it.

but if they cant work together or it puts other people (apple product users) at risk then i say no!

 

but i hope that they can work together to work out a way to get the realivent data of the phone to lock up this terroist.

Your head is so far up your ass you missed everything relevant about this issue.  The FBI will not learn anything useful from this phone.  This is a campaign to get stupid people to support the government effort to stop terrorism.  The government will NEVER stop terrorism.  It is not capable.  What it can do is make dummies believe it is capable of doing so.

[captain cactus]

22 minutes ago, Ykno said:

Right people you know i was fucking about right?

i was just sayign anything i could think of that was stupid enough to spark a reaction but still beliveable lol as my day at work is going slow.

 

What i really belive is:

 

Apple should give the back door to the FBI if they the FBI can prove that it will be used once and destroyed so maybe a Apple engineer work on the phoen while a FBI agent sits next him to veiw the info but has no control on the device or a one time back door that gets patched in a update as soon as FBI is done so that backdoor cant be leaked out and hurt other peoples privacy.

but if not Apple should stand by there views but as long as there willing to take the reprecusions of that terroist walking free. (if the only evidience that the terriorts can be convicet on is on that phone)

but i stand by what will be will be and we should all stop worry about this and just let it play out and see what happens.

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

 

This is how it works: http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645

[Ykno]

7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Your head is so far up your ass you missed everything relevant about this issue.  The FBI will not learn anything useful from this phone.  This is a campaign to get stupid people to support the government effort to stop terrorism.  The government will NEVER stop terrorism.  It is not capable.  What it can do is make dummies believe it is capable of doing so.

i think you have me wrong mate and are msitake my early post of me fucking with eveyone as my real feelings.

 

The FBI will not learn anything useful from this phone. -: ( you dont know that have you seen the phone? no but just like the FBI dont no there is anything on it but still worth a look if it leads to taking one more terroist off the streets thats still 1 less threat even if there is millions)

This is a campaign to get stupid people to support the government effort to stop terrorism.  The government will NEVER stop terrorism -: i dont not believe terriosim can be stopped but i do not belive this a campaign to get stupid people to support the goverment i belive this is a goverment effort to throw everythign they have no matter how small or big to try and win a war they can not and will not win.

What it can do is make dummies believe it is capable of doing so -: i hear that look at what 9/11 did to america/the world