FBI 'could force Apple to hand over private key'

[VicBar]

6 hours ago, Bensemus said:

So the precedent it will set has nothing to do with it? No company could ever think about something other than money right? All the other companies also supporting Apple are also doing it to keep their customers happy.

 

Apple is getting lots of negative PR about this. Polls in the states show that is not a popular stance to take. 

All publicity is good publicity. Just ask Trump.

In any case I think this would be an awesome win for Apple because they will have "FBI-proofed" their phones. If they are forced then I'm sure they'll find other ways to sell now that they have everyone's attention toward their next product after the fact.

The precedent it will set does make me pretty nervous though..

[FmPhenom]

56 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

So the precedent it will set has nothing to do with it? No company could ever think about something other than money right? All the other companies also supporting Apple are also doing it to keep their customers happy.

 

Apple is getting lots of negative PR about this. Polls in the states show that is not a popular stance to take. 

Nope. It is about money and it always has been.  Apple doesn't care all that much about security. Look at what some guy did to celebrities with a laptop.

[Bajantechnician]

17 hours ago, Nineshadow said:

But privacy won't really stand unless you look at the precedent being set.

In this case , there is no issue of privacy. The FBI had a warrant to search the phone.

but the phones locked.

 

the only way the goverment can get it unlocked is by getting apple to create a backdoor, whiich could be unlocked with the right key. and we can say confidently, that the keys for apple, a major corporation, should not given to the united states goverment

[lonewolf5460]

2 minutes ago, VicBar said:

What I think everyone can agree on, and I haven't seen really mentioned anywhere, is that this is the BEST marketing campaign Apple could ever want, especially because it is absolutely FREE. And let's remember that Apple relies only very heavily on it's IMAGE.

Full disclosure, I hate Apple, I have had Apple products. More than for the sake of its costumers and privacy overall they will surely drag this out as much as possible because if their phones look to be "FBI-proof" at least while the discussion is on, and if it wins, is the best implied brand logo they could have ever wanted.

I think not allowing full availability of the information of terrorists for study is inexcusible. That being said I do fear terribly for the precedent this could set if Apple would be forced. Though I would never have an iPhone.... but the precedent... could be Android next or smth....

I see your point and I agree apple is not a person they are a company that has to protect their investors interests. I dont love or aint any company I try my best t be objective and use what serves me best. Right now that is my galaxy S7 because it is water proof and I am near water a lot couple with a waterproof speaker I am a boss when I am at the pool. I have had amd and intel, I have tried all the major operating systems to see if they fit my need. I dont hate them if they dont they fit someone else right? Lets put the fan boy shit and apple hate to the side its only helping the FBI. The precedent is strong I know American law not Canadian but precedent means everything over here. I almost stay silent now because I am stupefied I spent this life exploring understanding taking the less beaten path just to gain new perspective I read constantly trying to gain perspective, this issue even talking to graduates with masters degrees they are mind numbly narrow. Granted a degree is specific to field I never went to college but I always thought you would gain some level of critical thinking and openness to others from the experience.

[lonewolf5460]

3 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

but the phones locked.

 

the only way the goverment can get it unlocked is by getting apple to create a backdoor, whiich could be unlocked with the right key. and we can say confidently, that the keys for apple, a major corporation, should not given to the united states goverment

Lets get something strait here do I need to link article pertaining to this issue from a software perspective. There is NO KEYS its basically a double blind lock.

[Bajantechnician]

1 minute ago, lonewolf5460 said:

Lets get something strait here do I need to link article pertaining to this issue from a software perspective. There is NO KEYS its basically a double blind lock.

which would have to be unlocked with a secret code/key/whatever.

what if it leaks?

[lonewolf5460]

8 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

which would have to be unlocked with a secret code/key/whatever.

what if it leaks?

I am not entertaining tin foil hat ideas. From a factual standpoint there is no key secret or otherwise. The structure of the has been examined by 3rd parties. Just a small amount of research and less assumption would show this as fact. Its like having a lock which the thief has to pick and even when the lock is broken nothing happens because the door does not respond to the lock being open it responds only to the knowledge to lock was open properly thus why I said double blind lock. This is a tech forum I am regretting joining now its almost as bad as the population on a whole. Think objectively here people we are already small minority as tech enthusiasts do we need to divide further because you cant stand apple because some douch bag uses their phone.

[Bajantechnician]

2 minutes ago, lonewolf5460 said:

I am not entertaining tin foil hat ideas. From a factual standpoint there is no key secret or otherwise. The structure of the has been examined by 3rd parties. Just a small amount of research and less assumption would show this as fact. Its like having a lock which the thief has to pick a lock and even when the lock is broken nothing happens because the door does not respond to the lock being open it responds only to the knowledge to lock was open properly thus why I said double blind lock. and This is a tech forum I am regretting joining now its almost as bad as the population on a whole. Think objectively here people we are already small minority as tech enthusiasts do we need to divide further because you cant stand apple because some douch bag uses their phone.

thats true

[FmPhenom]

1 minute ago, lonewolf5460 said:

I am not entertaining tin foil hat ideas. From a factual standpoint there is no key secret or otherwise. The structure of the has been examined by 3rd parties. Just a small amount of research and less assumption would show this as fact. Its like having a lock which the thief has to pick in a lock and even when the lock is broken nothing happens because the door does not respond to the lock being open it responds only to the knowledge to lock was open properly thus why I said double blind lock. and This is a tech forum I am regretting joining now its almost as bad as the population on a whole. Think objectively here people we are already small minority as tech enthusiasts do we need to divide further because you cant stand apple because some douch bag uses their phone.

If you believe that apple doesn't have a way to get into their own devices you are really drinking the apple kool aid.

 

They just do not want to give it up period.

[Energycore]

17 hours ago, Ykno said:

17 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

WOW, please no

giving a back door the the FBI will not save anyone's lives, as soon as terrorists learn there is a back-door they will just switch to another platform, meanwhile the FBI is free abuse the system

You do not think privacy is a basic human right?

Apple are 100% in the right here

do terriorst deserve humans rights

Yes. Without a doubt.

[lonewolf5460]

18 minutes ago, FmPhenom said:

If you believe that apple doesn't have a way to get into their own devices you are really drinking the apple kool aid.

 

They just do not want to give it up period.

Dude did you read the put the apple hate away part?? Or the other part where I say I use what benefits me objectively and if I dont like it it must work for someone learn to be objective. This is bigger than that the only way the lock can be overwritten is to push out an IOS update to disable it and they wont do that yes for public image probably but that is not the main issue. Stop focusing on the wrong thing its asinine its the means to an end don't hate it. If they and every company that stood behind apple can say they are pro privacy so be it. The precedent IS the problem US law is the major issue here that shit is even harder crack than this damn code it might as well be written is stone after this.This will change technology for better or worse cant you just look at it this way apple is a tech company protecting tech as a whole. The fear mongering the FBI is using is tantamount to the gestapo in my eyes defy the government and we will just bash you to death with the national security and traitor badge. THAT is the problem take off the blinders or join the sheep cause your just being as bad as the iphone toting general public.

[FmPhenom]

12 minutes ago, lonewolf5460 said:

Dude did you read the put the apple hate away part?? Or the other part where I say I use what benifits me objectivly and if I dont like it it must work for some one learn to be objective. This is bigger than that the only way the lock can be overwritten is to push out an IOS update to disable it and they wont do that yes for public image probably but that is not the main issue. Stop focusing on the wrong thing it asinine its the means to an end don't hate it. If they and every company that stood behind apple can say they are pro privacy so be it. The precedent IS problem US law is the major issue here that shit is even harder crack than this damn code it might as well be written is stone after this.This will change technology for better or worse cant you just look at it this way apple is a tech company protecting tech as a whole. The fear mongering the FBI is using is tantamount to the gestapo in my eyes defy the government and we will just bash you to death with the national security and traitor badge. THAT is the problem take off the blinders or join the sheep cause you just being as bad as the iphone toting public.

Fear mongering?  they want the info off of 2 dead pieces of shits that killed people. Fuck their right to privacy. They gave that up when they decided to plot the killings.

 

We are not talking about your privacy or anyone elses. The price of freedom in this country is not free.

[lonewolf5460]

21 minutes ago, FmPhenom said:

Fear mongering? Hey dipshit they want the info off of 2 dead pieces of shits that killed people. Fuck their right to privacy. They gave that up when they decided to plot the killings.

 

We are not talking about your privacy or anyone elses. The price of freedom in this country is not free.

Hi hello this is logic calling it is my privacy and everyone else that shares this country with you. I am very good at insulting people without directly doing it because its unnecessary in conversation and this proves I may have just put you in a corner. THINK for I am not a dipshit I keep friends in all parts of life who believe all sorts of things because I love perspective and understanding something I now think you are lacking. I am an atheist that knows more about religion than its average follower because I validate things. I know someone that believes the moon landings did not happen, and I proved it with calm fact. I have gotten a nigger hating skin head to agree with my brown self that he hates ignorance not color so I shall not give up. You know the word precedence if not google it means a lot for this country and our laws fuck those two mass murderers that is your fear talking. There is probably nothing good on their phones anyways people like that have burners and also anyone with anything to do with any cell phone numbers that called those phones. They were A out of country calls and B pre paid untraceable burners you can pick up at Walmart and stick in a used iPhone from Craigslist.Then here is C the carrier could already tell them about this through current laws text messages are kept for 3 months because of law so is your emails and a bunch of other info. I worked in the cellphone industry I talked to many network engineers anything the government could want can be obtained otherwise. So this is a small issue made big for the wrong reasons. My perspective on this goes deep try me I I live and breath fact feelings are for the weak and what you typed sir are feelings.

[FmPhenom]

12 minutes ago, lonewolf5460 said:

Hi hello this is logic calling it is my privacy and everyone else that share this country with you. I am very good at insulting people without directly doing it because its unnecessary in conversation and this proves I may have just put you in a corner. THINK for I am not a dipshit I keep friends in all parts of life who believe all sorts of things because I love perspective and understanding something I now think you are lacking. I am an atheist that knows more about religion than its average follower because I validate things. I know someone that believes the moon landings did not happen, and I proved it with calm fact. I have gotten a nigger hating skin head to agree with my brown self that he hates ignorance not color so I shall not give up. You know the word precedence if not google it means a lot for this country and our laws fuck those two mass murderers that is your fear talking. There is probably nothing good on their phones anyways people like that have burners and also anyone with anything to do with any cell phone numbers that called those phones. They were A out of country calls and B pre paid untraceable burners you can pick up at Walmart and stick in a used iPhone from Craigslist.Then here is C the carrier could already tell them about through current laws text messages are kept for 3 month because of law so is your emails and a bunch of other info. I worked in the cellphone industry I talked to many network engineers anything the government could want can be obtained otherwise. So this is a small issue made big for the wrong reasons. My perspective on this goes deep try me I I live and breath fact feeling are for the weak and what you typed are feelings.

My Fear talking? People are dead!

 

Its your fear of precedence. That keeps you arguing.

 

All you are doing is talking about is a bunch of what ifs, maybes, could be, might be and your guesses of the future. I don't give a damn where you work. What we all know for a fact that is

A: many people are DEAD

B:we know who did it

C: People keep shit longer than 3 months on phones. WAY longer than carriers do.

 

Getting the info off that phone is called detective work. Look that word up. Apple right now is hindering that work.

 

 

 

 

[lonewolf5460]

25 minutes ago, FmPhenom said:

My Fear talking? People are dead!

 

Its your fear of precedence. That keeps you arguing.

 

All you are doing is talking about is a bunch of what ifs, maybes, could be, might be and your guesses of the future. I don't give a damn where you work. What we all know for a fact that is

A: many people are DEAD

B:we know who did it

C: People keep shit longer than 3 months on phones. WAY longer than carriers do.

 

Getting the info off that phone is called detective work. Look that word up.

 

 

Yah detectives have to work with law thus this case going this far up the ladder of the court system. I wonder its anything but fear if anything is driving me is my perverse curiosity of human nature as whole I should damn well write a book an what I have observed just from this case. So we should step on our rights because people are dead that we cant bring back and affect out future as a society as a whole do realize the connotations of what your saying. I like that you did my A B C thing back on me it always is a trigger psychology is also something enjoy by the way. Listen read my last few comments as calmly as you can please with as much objectivity as you can. I care about the law that would in theory be passed not the tangibles the dead people or the tech. These terrorists showed all signs of acting on their own it has also been established that terrorist organizations use social media to connect with people to do these horrible acts. May I read your Facebook and snap chat for national security? This is my problem the slippery slope theory is used to much but damn it this is US law. What may be written will more than likely be quoted by lawyers for a centuries after we die, please try to understand the implications of the law in the future, not the now and what it could temporarily solve which may not be much.

 

I worked for many cellphone carriers selling prepaid to dumb as brick drug dealers they even understand obscurity in numbers you don't think a terrorist organization does? I could tell you one point of how this could be solved in the future so it could be tracked by the legal channels that are in place. If an ID and social was required for prepaid then this issue would not repeat just the sim card would give enough info to track down an organization for years. Walk into a metropcs say you want service they will ask for id say you don't have one they are trained to just go oh then whats your name then you just tell them whatever the fuck you want that's wrong.We may disagree on one issue but I can bring up solutions whats yours?

 

Also if you did not call me a dipshit and talked to me like you would a person that you would have face to face with, I would be way less condescending.

[FmPhenom]

1 minute ago, lonewolf5460 said:

Yah detectives have to work with law thus this case going this far up the ladder of the court system. I wonder its anything but fear if anything is driving me is my perverse curiosity of human nature as whole I should damn well write a book an what I have observed just from this case. So we should step on our rights because people are dead that we cant bring back and affect out future as a society as a whole do realize the connotations of what your saying. I like that you did my A B C thing back on me it always is a trigger psychology is also something enjoy by the way. Listen read my last few comments as calmly as you can please with as much objectivity as you can. I care about the law that would in theory be passed not the tangibles the dead people or the tech. These terrorists showed all signs of acting on their own it has also been established that terrorist organizations use social media to connect with people to do these horrible acts. May I read your Facebook and snap chat for national security? This is my problem the slippery slope theory is used to much but damn it this is US law. What may be written will more than likely be quoted by lawyers for a centuries after we die, please try to understand the implications of the law in the future, not the now and what it could temporarily solve which may not be much.

 

I worked for many cellphone carriers selling prepaid to dumb as brick drug dealers they even understand obscurity in numbers you don't think a terrorist organization does? I could tell you one point of how this could be solved in the future so it could be tracked by the legal channels that are in place. If an ID and social was required for prepaid then this issue would not repeat just the sim card would give enough info to track down an organization for years. Walk into a metropcs say you want service they will ask for id saw you don't have one they are tried to just oh then whats your name then you just tell them whatever the fuck you want that's wrong.We may disagree on one issue but I can bring up solutions whats yours?

Ohhh spooky language.

 

Man you pulled a mind trick with the ABCs. You got me good kid.

 

When you write your book will it be pop up?

 

You could read my facebook , snapchat, Instagram , myspace, and scan my steam account if you were a form of law enforcement and you were INVESTIGATING me.

 

Face it. You haven't a clue on how this should be handled. Neither do I but I do know this. If the FBI, CIA, Mi6 or Duke Nukem wants to trample on 2 dead pieces of shits privacy rights to get info off of dead people phones that may  potentially keep me, my friends and family, you and every law abiding citizen safe. I HOPE THEY DO IT WITH SOCCER CLEATS ON.

[lonewolf5460]

Just now, FmPhenom said:

Ohhh spooky language.

 

Man you pulled a mind trick with the ABCs. You got me good kid.

 

When you write your book will it be pop up?

 

You could read my facebook , snapchat, Instagram , myspace, and scan my steam account if you were a form of law enforcement and you were INVESTIGATING me.

 

Face it. You haven't a clue on how this should be handled. Neither do I but I do know this. If the FBI, CIA, Mi6 or Duke Nukem wants to trample on 2 dead pieces of shits privacy rights to get info off of dead people phones that may  potentially keep me, my friends and family, you and every law abiding citizen safe. I HOPE THEY DO IT WITH SOCCER CLEATS ON.

That was just to annoy you because I know how to do that without using trivial language. Seriously provide a solution read the lower half I provided one. It would stop this from happening again it may not help this case but it wont hurt privacy. It also helps the root problem these people in the fbi cant get tangible information through normal channels because of the burner phone issue. Objectivity is key I know you don't like me now but that is also a fact. Law enforcement, software engineers, lawyers I know them and I know tech and the cell phone industry in great detail.

 

 This is something that is not being spoken about how can we fix this for the future in a proper manner. So give a logical solution not feelings otherwise you just want the last word with me right. Ill give you that I wont respond to you unless you want to talk in a reasonable and logical manner. Just know I don't call people dipshits just because I disagree it is not proper. Have a good day or night depending on where you are.

[FmPhenom]

2 minutes ago, lonewolf5460 said:

That was just to annoy you because I know how to do that without using trivial language. Seriously provide a solution read the lower half I provided one. It would stop this from happening again it may not help this case but it wont hurt privacy. It also helps the root problem these people in the fbi cant get tangible information through normal channels because of the burner phone issue. Objectivity is key I know you don't like me now but that is also a fact. Law enforcement, software engineers, lawyers I know them and I know tech and the cell phone industry in great detail.

 

 This is something that is not being spoken about how can we fix this for the future in a proper manner. So give a logical solution not feelings otherwise you just want the last word with me right. Ill give you that I wont respond to you unless you want to talk in a reasonable and logical manner. Just know I don't call people dipshits just because I disagree it is not proper. Have a good day or night depending on where you are.

Way to paint me into a corner man. *pats your head*

[Bouzoo]

20 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

They can, and they are fighting and refusing it, unless the US a prepared to shut down their biggest corporation

That title would go to Walmart, aaaaand that went OT really fast. 

[ShadowCaptain]

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

That title would go to Walmart, aaaaand that went OT really fast. 

What? Apple is worth 2 or 3 times what Walmart is worth and would be considered a more prestige brand with the whole "designed in California" thing being a big statement from Apple
 

[Paragon_X]

Here is the thing to those who say its ok for the FBI to this and lives are more important than Data.
1) If they manage to legally add a backdoor to iOS they will have a presitend (or however it is spelled) to add backdoors to EVERY other OS LEGALLY, that means they have a hunch they can snoop on you no questions asked.

2) If somehow we could warrant that they would use it with caution, hackers surely will not. if they know a backdoor is in place they will exploit it at some point in time.
3) Data are AS important AS lives, with the data we store on our phones (credit cards, IDs etc) you could steal the life of someone deface it or push them do things that they would never do. (suicide, blackmail etc.)

I chose apple for the last months to see how it is and the ecosystem is the best so far. But if they legally pass those laws, I will switch to custom android Roms for once more because I really like my bank accounts and identity intact.

[bigneo]

I don't understand if it is too hard for Apple to break and update that particular phone rather than push OS update with weakened security to all phones as an update to OS. Can they not just manually update that particular phone and let the FBI in to read some messages? Affecting one phone will not affect other phones, will it? Or maybe I'm missing something, I haven't read 6 pages of posts ;p

 

In my mind for singular situations like this, there should be cooperation from both sides.

[stconquest]

14 minutes ago, bigneo said:

I don't understand if it is too hard for Apple to break and update that particular phone rather than push OS update with weakened security to all phones as an update to OS. Can they not just manually update that particular phone and let the FBI in to read some messages? Affecting one phone will not affect other phones, will it? Or maybe I'm missing something, I haven't read 6 pages of posts ;p

 

In my mind for singular situations like this, there should be cooperation from both sides.

If it was that simple, Apple would have done it already.  They have done it before on more than a dozen occasions.  The government does not want to have to go to Apple any more, they want unrestricted access to any phone at any time.

[ShadowCaptain]

22 minutes ago, bigneo said:

Affecting one phone will not affect other phones, will it?

If they develop a way to break through their encryption, that solution could potentially be replicated, especially if its a software tool

Also, it sets a legal precedent that would set case law, meaning in the future, a judge would reference this case, see the FBI one the case, and would force Apple to do it in future cases

What is the point of security, if all you need is a court order to remove it

if it is allowed to happen once, it will just keep happening until Apple are forced to unlock phones for petty crimes, or just at the whim of the FBI for any investigations into whatever


 

[HarmFull]

23 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Also, John Olliver explains it pretty well: 

 

Dear Americans,

 

Watch and learn! This man can educate you more in 15 minutes than an entire year of school can do!