New FO4 patch brings "nVidia only" weapon debris effects.

[cesrai]

my big influence...price to performance

750Ti doesn't have a bad price/performance ratio does it ? Especially when I got it when it was on sale where I live.

[jaggysnake57]

750Ti doesn't have a bad price/performance ratio does it ? Especially when I got it when it was on sale where I live.

 

i have no clue, i was mearly saying that $ to performance is more important than fancy effects

[MoonSpot]

I don't like the argument about focusing on "fixing" the game instead of adding effects (proprietary or not).  The person(s) that completed the effects work might very well have simply been working within their expertise. 

 

That and I don't really care for the whole FO look, feel and concept.  If I want to see and be immersed in a run down shithole I'd open the front door and turn my gaze toward my towns industrial sector.  Ain't nothin fun about that in it for me personally, so...:shrugs: meh.

[grayperview]

That was a big influence considering how many hours I have put into borderlands 2.

wow one game its doesn't cripple. go try all the batman games, try project cars on an AMD card which is crippled by cpu bound physX.

 

PhysX in principle is great, in execution is utter garbage.

 

if you have 2 980s with one as a dedicated as a physX card i guess it may just about be ok....

[kuddlesworth9419]

Still no fixes for loads of glitches. I guess adding stupid effects that no one wants is Bethesda's main agenda. HBAO+ is really nice though that's the best feature.

[cesrai]

wow one game its doesn't cripple. go try all the batman games, try project cars on an AMD card which is crippled by cpu bound physX.

PhysX in principle is great, in execution is utter garbage.

if you have 2 980s with one as a dedicated as a physX card i guess it may just about be ok....

So you gonna ignore Borderlands 2, pre-sequal, mafia 2, AC black flag and Metro LL ? All those games from my experience physx is fine on them. They do have a performance hit ( not that significant ) but that's expected.

What's your point about project cars physx ? It's known that it is CPU only and that gives a significant performance hit.

Physx is great I agree, but I disagree about execution bring garbage, I think if just depends on that developer, what physx features they implemant and if they make it CPU bound or not.

[Misanthrope]

I don't like the argument about focusing on "fixing" the game instead of adding effects (proprietary or not).  The person(s) that completed the effects work might very well have simply been working within their expertise.

 

False dichotomy sir: even if true it just means that they've long since have someone dedicated to the Nvidia stuff instead of diverting that talent or focusing them on performance fixes or testers checking for issues on the Nvidia code instead of the general game code or any number of possibilities. 

[Gonk]

False dichotomy sir: even if true it just means that they've long since have someone dedicated to the Nvidia stuff instead of diverting that talent or focusing them on performance fixes or testers checking for issues on the Nvidia code instead of the general game code or any number of possibilities. 

 

How would an effects artist (or whatever they're called) be of any use when it comes to fixing code? You make it sound like these very talented and experienced dev teams can basically only work on one thing at a time. In my mind it would be completely silly for literally the entire team to focus on one problem.

[Vivilacqua1]

damn you Nvidia!

[Godlygamer23]

PhysX is CUDA accelerated. AMD was offered CUDA in the past more than once so they are the ones to blame for lack of support. They may have taken an offer for what appears to be rudimentary CUDA recently, but they really shot themselves in the foot.

PhysX may be CUDA accelerated, but what's stopping NVIDIA from expanding the functionality to work on other hardware? Nothing. NVIDIA has also shot themselves in the foot with PhysX due to the fact that you cannot use a shitty NVIDIA card to run PhysX with a high end AMD card. I think PhysX would have a higher adoption than it does now if NVIDIA didn't take that route.

 

This is one reason why I don't like closed systems all the time. They can limit adoption rate.

[Misanthrope]

How would an effects artist (or whatever they're called) be of any use when it comes to fixing code?

 

As I said, for the sake of your argument you're construing this as if the only possibility is that this effects artist works on this specific thing. This is not the case there's several other plausible scenarios:

 

1) Bethesda puts this artist on some other project and gets a coder instead

2) The person actually can do more than 1 thing and has the skill set to do other forms of coding and optimization (not unheard of since this kind of effects do involve coding)

3) Bethesda is actually not putting any effort into the post release development at all and just copy/pasted a few calls they received from an Nvidia rep so this entire argument is irrelevant (kinda for both of us really)

 

Whatever the case companies are capable of managing their resources and staff. Kinda what should set them apart from indie devs is this very ability. It's just often misused to whatever gives them the most cash which would be all hands on delivering on those Nvidia effects some manager already paid for but are not used or (and more likely) working on the DLC to sell it....before the game it's even stable...meaning it might not ever be stable.

[Gonk]

snip

 

I'm tired so I might be misunderstanding you but it still kind of sounds like you're saying that as a result of Bethesda adding extra eye candy, that somehow means they're incapable of also fixing other issues like performance and bugs.

 

I mean, even if it did take away some focus from those issues it's not like this is the last patch. Skyrim had plenty of patches and from what I remember, the ones that really made a noticeable difference to performance came a bit later (maybe 1.4, can't remember exactly).

 

I guess my point is that not only are there probably multiple teams of people who will be working on fixing stuff that relates to skillset, it also might just take a couple more patches before they iron some of the more serious problems. Also, just out of curiousity, how do you think they manage to make DLC if they are all busy working on patches? I highly doubt it takes an entire dev team to patch a game, even if there are some major issues with it since it would be really expensive and you can't sell those patches to pay for all those man hours.

[Misanthrope]

I'm tired so I might be misunderstanding you but it still kind of sounds like you're saying that as a result of Bethesda adding extra eye candy, that somehow means they're incapable of also fixing other issues like performance and bugs.

 

I mean, even if it did take away some focus from those issues it's not like this is the last patch. Skyrim had plenty of patches and from what I remember, the ones that really made a noticeable difference to performance came a bit later (maybe 1.4, can't remember exactly).

 

I guess my point is that not only are there probably multiple teams of people who will be working on fixing stuff that relates to skillset, it also might just take a couple more patches before they iron some of the more serious problems. Also, just out of curiousity, how do you think they manage to make DLC if they are all busy working on patches? I highly doubt it takes an entire dev team to patch a game, even if there are some major issues with it since it would be really expensive and you can't sell those patches to pay for all those man hours.

 

Not incapable, unwilling, but yes. 

 

Also I know Skyrim got good post launch support but going back to the topic at hand: it wasn't burdened with Nvidia effects nonsense. 

 

Finally not because it usually doesn't takes an entire dev team (or the entire coding team) to patch a game doesn't means that it shouldn't: If you release a broken game you should fix it in a timely fashion. Only we know they don't because I never see many fans of the game like myself (That actually own an Nvidia gpu to boot) that are nevertheless highly critical of their bullshit prioritization. 

[catbutts]

Isn't this just called PhysX Effects? I thought these effects were controlled by a slider that is called something like PhysX... You turn it up and a bunch of random stuff appears when you shoot. I don't know what I'm talking about, but that's what it seems like this is.

I don't remember the internet getting mad when Mafia II came out with PhysX stuff so idk what's different here

[Gonk]

Not incapable, unwilling, but yes. 

 

Also I know Skyrim got good post launch support but going back to the topic at hand: it wasn't burdened with Nvidia effects nonsense. 

 

Finally not because it usually doesn't takes an entire dev team (or the entire coding team) to patch a game doesn't means that it shouldn't: If you release a broken game you should fix it in a timely fashion. Only we know they don't because I never see many fans of the game like myself (That actually own an Nvidia gpu to boot) that are nevertheless highly critical of their bullshit prioritization. 

 

Actually, while I might not be quite as critical of "their bullshit" as you are, I am a fan of the game (and series, since fo3) and I have two 970s.

 

I do kind of understand where you're coming from I think, and obviously I'd love for Beth to hurry up and fix some of the major issues like performance (and release official mod tools!), but again, I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to put their entire team to work just fixing stuff when they'll be wanting to add more content to the game to not only make more money, but also 'add more value' to those that bought it.

 

I also don't have any strong feeling about gameworks so that might be a big reason why I can't quite relate to your frustration with them on that matter. From what I've seen Bethesda do in the past though, I don't think that it's going to be a massive focus for them. I wouldn't be too surprised if this is the only gameworks thing they add and now they'll just carry on doing what they always do which is to patch the game some more, maybe add some new features like mounted combat for Skyrim and eventually start releasing DLC, just like they did for Skyrim.

 

Also, there might be inherent performance issues with the engine they're using and how far they seem to have pushed it in certain ways. I can't say that I know much about the technical aspects of game engines, but judging from previous games there seemed to always be performance and stability issues.

[Misanthrope]

Not as pronounced but fair enough.

[lkarej]

To be fair, it's a PhysX thing so it won't run well on AMD cards.

 

But still, fuck you NVIDIA.

 

True.

 

Agreed.

 

Bethesda this is why we cant have nice things

 

They'd have to actually make something nice first.

[Makarov_9mm]

So.... it's PhysX? Because it just looks like PhysX. My 970 is as green as anybody's and I still find most Gameworks/PhysX effects to be 'ehh neat', but AMD users really aren't missing much. I hate the exclusivity stuff, but at this point I'm just indifferent. However, I look forward to seeing how the full release patch affects my performance.

[escape093]

NVIDIA Bias

 

The Way It's Meant to be Swayed

[samcool55]

It will probably make the game run even worse so tbh i don't care.

I prefer a more solid 60fps than this.

[alicskysareblue]

And its going to be poorly implemented look at horse combat in skyrim....it was terrible

[Gonk]

And its going to be poorly implemented look at horse combat in skyrim....it was terrible

While I agree that horse combat was pretty bad, I would still rather have an unimpressive mounted combat system than not have one at all. Also, this isn't even a game play thing so it's a bad comparison.

[-BirdiE-]

It blows my mind that people are seeing this as nVidia being anti-competitive. Bethesda added this because a technology developed by nVidia allowed them to do that. If you think "being competitive" means spending money on R&D only to share that technology with your competition, you're out to lunch.

 

It's not like anything in the game is being taken away from people with AMD cards... The options were to add it for people with nVidia cards, or don't add it at all. I'm glad they chose to enable it for some, rather than allowing none to have it.

 

Anyone complaining is simply bitter because they have an AMD card and don't get it.

[-BirdiE-]

Still no fixes for loads of glitches. I guess adding stupid effects that no one wants is Bethesda's main agenda. HBAO+ is really nice though that's the best feature.

 

Legitimate complaint.

[NuclearPeace]

It blows my mind that people are seeing this as nVidia being anti-competitive. Bethesda added this because a technology developed by nVidia allowed them to do that. If you think "being competitive" means spending money on R&D only to share that technology with your competition, you're out to lunch.

 

It's not like anything in the game is being taken away from people with AMD cards... The options were to add it for people with nVidia cards, or don't add it at all. I'm glad they chose to enable it for some, rather than allowing none to have it.

 

Anyone complaining is simply bitter because they have an AMD card and don't get it.

 

Yeah... I see it as a crab mentality. When you have a diversity in hardware you are bound to have to give up something. AMD is bad at tesellation and NVIDIA is bad at compute. Its tit for tat.