Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I have two SBRs, a 10.5" and I'm building a 12" right now, the NFA process is fairly easy (not that I'm happy about it), and with the Efile option on Form 1s, I got my 12" SBR approval in 28 days. Which is a ton better than paper Form 4s right now that are between ten and fourteen months.

Is there a name for all these forms? Or a link to the website? I'm guessing this is national forms, not state forms.

Quote

IMHO SBRs make the most sense with suppressors. A 16" gun can pretty well do anything, but once you put a can on one it get's pretty long. And a 20" rifle with a can becomes fairly musketish. 

 

As for SBR capability, as long as you have more than 1 revolution of rifling the quality of the barrel makes a much much larger difference in accuracy than the length. Most .223 ARs are between 1:7 and 1:9 so anything ~10" and up can be a very accurate rifle. Although going down below about 10.5" yields a rather sharp drop off in velocity, so it's generally accepted that if you want to use the gun for any practical purposes other than giggles, 10.5" is about as short as you want to go with .223/5.56. 

 

EDIT: 12" SBR build progess because everyone likes pictures:

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Do you get "milspec" parts? If so are they always interchangeable & compatible?

How can you tell if a part is going to be garbo or not?

 

I have a feeling a lot of gun people presume if something doesn't cost a lot, it must be junk without a second glance, whether or not they have the experience. (Like me! But I'm trying to learn more so... hopefully I'm half or less haha)

[Rybo]

@fpo @Crunchy Dragon

 

If you want a short weapon without being on any government lists (a Form 1 gun has...bunches of additional requirements beyond the tax stamp), get a bullpup!  I got a Steyr Aug specifically for that reason, though a non-insane person might go for a cheaper option.  I will admit, it's quite a bit heavier than an AR, but since all of the weight is centered very close to the stock, it's pretty easy to handle.  And anecdotally, once I got it, even simple administrative tasks like carrying either rifle around the house has revealed how profoundly better a shorter gun is at home defense.  Once you hold a short gun, you realize how LONG even a 16" barreled AR is.  

 

Had I known that e-filing for the SBR tax stamp would go so quick (I filed for my SBS on paper -- it did, in fact, take 12 months), I might have gone that route.  The AR platform is definitely better IMO, but it's really long if you have hallways and stuff in your house.  Making it an SBR would ameliorate that a bunch.  

 

As far as ballistics, unless you get a very firm bullet, .223's apparently don't have much penetrating power.  Above 2,500 fps, they apparently fragment very easily, which causes them to lose energy very quick (and do a bit more damage to the thing they land in!).  Here's a good video listing a bunch of .223 ammo options and their penetrating properties: 

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

Good to know @Rybo, thank you

 

I probably will get a bullpup at some point, that would likely be the only type of rifle I would plan to use for home defense. We have a fairly narrow hallway with quite a few doors that are all kind of close together, which is why my first thought was shotgun over AR.

[Real_PhillBert]

29 minutes ago, fpo said:

Is there a name for all these forms? Or a link to the website? I'm guessing this is national forms, not state forms.

The forms in this context are NFA forms from the BATFE who controls all NFA items, and yes this is all federal paperwork. I dont know of any state who requires their own paperwork beyond the federal NFA paperwork that allows NFA items. 

 

There are a pile of them but I'll try to summarize as best I can. 

 

ATF Form 1 is an application to produce an NFA item (short barreled rifle, silencer, machine gun, destructive device, etc.) You must fill one of these out if you intend to build a new NFA item, and a $200 tax goes along with this form

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-1-application-make-and-register-firearm-atf-form-53201

 

An ATF Form 3 is a dealer transfer of an NFA item, you probably will never have to deal with one of these apart from waiting for something to get approved before it can even be shipped to your dealer.

 

ATF Form 4 is a transfer from a dealer to an individual, this is most commonly the purchase of a suppressor but the purchase of a factory SBR, machine gun, or destructive device is also on this form, and a $200 tax goes along with this form.

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-4-application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204

40 minutes ago, fpo said:

Do you get "milspec" parts? If so are they always interchangeable & compatible?

How can you tell if a part is going to be garbo or not?

Kind of; the vast majority of the parts I put on my builds conform to the "mil-spec" design in the way that they are compatible with all "mil-spec" parts however most of the parts I use are much higher quality than what the military actually purchases. As I'm not buying rifles by the hundreds of thousands I can afford to sprinkle in some higher quality materials and more complex manufacturing processes than what the military budget generally allows. For example the lower receiver pictured above is an ADM UIC lower that's milled and has integrated right hand side bolt lock and bolt release where the standard forged lower does not, however it's also a whole lot more expensive to produce. Same story with the buffer tube assembly; the standard buffer tube/castle nut assembly requires staking to prevent it from moving under heavy use, the PWS buffer tube assembly has a ratcheting mechanism incorporated into it, much the same way lots of suppressors attach that prevents movement without staking. 

 

As for how to tell if a particular part is of any quality, that's a tough one. Experience and research can go a long way. There are also companies that are safer than others, a company with a reputation of making top notch stuff generally doesn't make a crap product along with their good stuff. Like most others I have my preferred companies to use that I've developed over time.

[Guest]

 

1 hour ago, Rybo said:

If you want a short weapon without being on any government lists (a Form 1 gun has...bunches of additional requirements beyond the tax stamp), get a bullpup!  I got a Steyr Aug specifically for that reason, though a non-insane person might go for a cheaper option.  I will admit, it's quite a bit heavier than an AR, but since all of the weight is centered very close to the stock, it's pretty easy to handle.  And anecdotally, once I got it, even simple administrative tasks like carrying either rifle around the house has revealed how profoundly better a shorter gun is at home defense.  Once you hold a short gun, you realize how LONG even a 16" barreled AR is.  

I was considering a Desert Tech MDR but idk. In Range did a mud test & the gun did above average.
I looked at a few & just about everything is like 2 grand no matter what you get as bullpups go.

 

Maybe I should look at that more than an AR-15.

 

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

snip

Thanks! That's very helpful!

 

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Kind of; the vast majority of the parts I put on my builds conform to the "mil-spec" design in the way that they are compatible with all "mil-spec" parts however most of the parts I use are much higher quality than what the military actually purchases. As I'm not buying rifles by the hundreds of thousands I can afford to sprinkle in some higher quality materials and more complex manufacturing processes than what the military budget generally allows. For example the lower receiver pictured above is an ADM UIC lower that's milled and has integrated right hand side bolt lock and bolt release where the standard forged lower does not, however it's also a whole lot more expensive to produce. Same story with the buffer tube assembly; the standard buffer tube/castle nut assembly requires staking to prevent it from moving under heavy use, the PWS buffer tube assembly has a ratcheting mechanism incorporated into it, much the same way lots of suppressors attach that prevents movement without staking. 

Yeah, after watching a ton of Forgotten Weapons I learned Military rifles are quite shitty. Relatively speaking.

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

As for how to tell if a particular part is of any quality, that's a tough one. Experience and research can go a long way. There are also companies that are safer than others, a company with a reputation of making top notch stuff generally doesn't make a crap product along with their good stuff. Like most others I have my preferred companies to use that I've developed over time.

Do you have a fav 5? Not necessarily taking your word as gospel & not trying to start a flame war, but like with PC parts you can't go wrong with Intel, ASUS, MSI, Coolermaster & Logitech. Y'know? To get me started with some knowledge of brands & learning the market.

[Real_PhillBert]

5 minutes ago, fpo said:

Yeah, after watching a ton of Forgotten Weapons I learned Military rifles are quite shitty. Relatively speaking.

That's kind of an unfortunate reality of gov sourcing. They write a spec and the lowest bidder to meet the spec gets the contract, for the tax payer it's a good thing, but it generally means that the general issue equipment is middle of the roadish, certainly not crap, but also not top shelf. Specialty units are kind of the exception, they generally have more relaxed rules. 

 

10 minutes ago, fpo said:

Do you have a fav 5? Not necessarily taking your word as gospel & not trying to start a flame war, but like with PC parts you can't go wrong with Intel, ASUS, MSI, Coolermaster & Logitech. Y'know? To get me started with some knowledge of brands & learning the market.

I'll try to throw out some good companies in each category.

 

Receivers: Aero, ADM, LMT, DD, Rock River etc, but to be honest any in spec forged lower should be as good as any other in spec forged lower

BCGs: Rock River, Toolcraft, BCM, DD

Barrels: Ballistic Advantage, LaRue, Faxon

Triggers: LaRue or Geissele 

Gas Blocks: SLR Rifleworks is the only adjustable I use, but non adjustables can be a ton of groups

Rails: Geissele, magpul, KAC or SLR Rifleworks

Accessories: Forward Controls, Arisaka, Radian, or BCM or magpul

 

this is by no means an exhaustive list but what came to my mind right off the bat. 

 

You really have to decide what you want the rifle to be and how much you want to spend, and that will dictate a lot of the decisions. 

[george357]

41 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Receivers: Aero, ADM, LMT, DD, Rock River etc, but to be honest any in spec forged lower should be as good as any other in spec forged lower

BCGs: Rock River, Toolcraft, BCM, DD

Barrels: Ballistic Advantage, LaRue, Faxon

Triggers: LaRue or Geissele 

Gas Blocks: SLR Rifleworks is the only adjustable I use, but non adjustables can be a ton of groups

Rails: Geissele, magpul, KAC or SLR Rifleworks

Accessories: Forward Controls, Arisaka, Radian, or BCM or magpul

If it helps, I agree with all these as well @fpo 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

That's kind of an unfortunate reality of gov sourcing. They write a spec and the lowest bidder to meet the spec gets the contract, for the tax payer it's a good thing, but it generally means that the general issue equipment is middle of the roadish, certainly not crap, but also not top shelf. Specialty units are kind of the exception, they generally have more relaxed rules. 

Yeah, I think special forces are allowed to buy their own guns & stuff & just use anything they want without restriction.

Knowing how large the DoD budget is, I can't imagine what it'd be like if every soldier had top of the line equipment for every role in the military. Some of the stuff just has to be outdated & old to keep costs down.

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I'll try to throw out some good companies in each category.

 

snip

 

this is by no means an exhaustive list but what came to my mind right off the bat. 

Thanks! This is definitely helpful. I was browsing some websites & there's like some companies like Anderson ($50 plastic lowers) and then a bunch of other parts & I have no idea what is worth getting. Some like Anderson from the forum hunts I went on, but it's good to get some input.

I heard of Guisele triggers being like "The best triggers you should get." 5~7 years ago the airsoft world was obsessed with Magpul to the point that every 5th word spoken on the field was magpul.

1 hour ago, Real_PhillBert said:

You really have to decide what you want the rifle to be and how much you want to spend, and that will dictate a lot of the decisions. 

Being able to look into these companies for their respective parts will help me understand what are some realistic price points.
I saw that it's possible to build an AR-15 for less than 400 bucks, but I don't know the quality of anything I was looking at. Just a bunch of random parts.

 

An FFL by me said that it's best to just buy a complete AR-15 as he has people coming in all the time saying "I tried to build an AR but..." and most of his service work is fixing AR-15 that other people couldn't put together properly & doing fitting and stuff.

I don't really want to bust out a sanding machines, so I was skeptical of building an AR-15. I just want to snap everything together, not operate a bunch of power tools. A hammer is fine but if I have to start drilling & stuff...

 

37 minutes ago, george357 said:

If it helps, I agree with all these as well

Thanks! This helps with my confidence in the companies.

Some YouTubers said that there's hundreds or thousands of AR-15 part makers in the US & you just don't know what is safe or unsafe to get if you shop random companies. They're confident that there's underrated companies out there, but still. Can't be sure you'll strike gold.

[SansVarnic]

I was asked to give some input on home defense rounds, what to look for and such.

Be mindful that using a firearm in home defense presents a world of new variable but ill stick to what I asked about, ammunition. When considering your ammunition you need think about a few things, how big is my home and what kind of walls do I have? Do I live alone or with others? Do I live in a house or an apartment? There are more...

 

I will add photos of round at the bottom of this post, in a spoiler of course.

 

For Handguns;

1. Hollow point ammunition or "expandable ammo"
   • The ammunition expands or "mushrooms out" increasing the projectiles diameter buy 35-50% decreasing the chances of over penetration by a large margin but doesn't fully prevent overpenetration.
   • I use this in my everyday carry and home defense.
   • This ammunition is promote or advertised as a "Home Defense" ammunition.
   • Please, Do not mistake "Zombie ammunition" as home defense ammunition, Please.
   • Highly recommended by most Self Defense Instructors
2. Frangible ammunition;
   • This is not new but it is basically compressed copper in a copper jacket and the round in most commonly found in or as target ammunition.
   • Not well recommended as this ammunition is the same shape as ball ammunition and how it breaks up.
   • Some "Zombie ammunition" is made this way.
   • This ammunition breaks up at point of impact in most cases and is very difficult to remove from the body, has very little chance of over penetration with the body or hard surfaces such as hardwood or metal but can or will easily penetrate most walls made of Plaster, Drywall, thin or soft Wood.
3. Ball ammunition;
   • Penetrates most surfaces easily, depending on design, weight and caliber.
   • DO not recommend as ammunition of this type will likely penetrate the body and pending on the range to target penetrate another person or through a wall behind the first target.

If you are not sure because of where you live, please make sure to do your do diligence and research that any of these are legal to use in self defense, some [few] states or counties in the US frown on using Hollow point or Frangible ammunition.

Hollow points are becoming the most popular and accepted type of ammunition for home defense though.

 

For Rifles;

I personally do not recommend the rifle but people do use them.

 

**Please note: You cannot use expandable rifle ammunition for home defense. It is not legal in any US State that I know of [if anyone knows different please send some links so I can update what I know on this] it is meant for hunting and sold as such as far as I am aware.

Spoiler

All I own currently is expandable 7mm and 30-06 for my Bolt-actions and if it came down to it and that all I had to use, well you all can imagine what those rounds will do to a person. /shrug

There are 2 categories of rifle so..

1. AR's
   1. Becoming very popular in home defense and honestly I wish it wasn't and not for the reasons that would automatically come to mind.
   2. Ammunition [commonly] for AR's are, .223, 5.56, 300 blackout, 308, 6.2 and 6.5. There are others of course but these are the more common ones.
   3. AR rifles are designed for medium to medium-long range use. CQC (Close-Quarters Combat) [also know as CQB or CQA] is not the primary use for these rifles.
   4. CQC is only good for larger caliber rifles as smaller caliber is Not effective in CQC situations such as home defense.
   5. Any AR rifle ammunition will most likely penetrate, regardless of the caliber.
      • There is a video that I need to find but it shows a US Soldier shooting an Iraqi with a hand grenade at point blank [less than 10ft away, about 5 rounds] and you can see the rounds hit the ground behind the perpetrator. The soldier was using an M4 with 5.56 ammunition. It was like shooting the guy with a needle gun.
      • There has been discussion since this incident about the US Army adopting expandable ammo for CQB operations.
2. Bolt
   1. Normally used for hunting BUT can be used for home defense in a last resort scenario. (see my spoiler)
   2. There is no caliber or round that a bolt wont penetrate the perpetrator or a wall, even concrete.

 

For Shotguns;

I recommend a pump for various reasons but if you own a semi-auto shotgun well, you work with what you have.

1. These are size of shell you can get: 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/4 inch. In 10, 12, 410 gauge. [Shotgun caliber is referred to as gauge]
2. The most common shell used for home defense is the 12 gauge 2 3/4 inch. ( I recommend this)
   • The second common is the 410 2 3/4 inch shell. (I recommend this if you live in an apartment setting)
3. There are a multitude of shells you can use but the recommended ammunition is the actual Home Defense round.
   • Shotgun home defense rounds or know as PDX are a combination of discs and pellets. This round is available in both 12 and 410 gauges.
     • **edit**I must admit when typing this up I did a quick search and apparently Winchester has updated their 12gauge PDX to include Slugs and 00 pellets instead of using the discs. The disc and pellet combo is used in their .410 variant.
   • These are designed to prevent overpenetration of walls but will incapacitate a perpetrator effectively.
   • In leu of  PDX ammunition you can use Buck Shot, Double Ought or properly know as 00 shells.
     • 00 will penetrate Drywall but is the common replacement or suggested shell since the Home Defense shells are a bit more expensive.
   • I recommend using BB shells as they are less likely to penetrate walls but not impossible depending your range from barrel to wall of course but will still incapacitate the perpetrator at close range. 
   • I know of some people will reload with Rock Salt as that is somewhat effective an much less lethal and will in most cases stop a perpetrator.
   • Target or bird shot will hurt a perpetrator but in 50% of cases wont necessarily incapacitate a perpetrator, they will likely be scared shitless though.
     • You can kill with a target load but if you are looking to out right incapacitate get a larger load like bb, 00 or PDX shells.
4. What not to use in home defense 
   • The Slug. I say this far various reasons but the biggest is because you the shooter might get slapped with excessive force. Its obvious a slug will do extreme damage but it is by coincidental design a combination of expansive and frangible as it will and can do one or the other. A slug is ,if you are using a 12g, for all things a .75 caliber projectile and will definitely be effective.
   • Slugs will penetrate walls and concrete block.
   • I don't recommend this as an option BUT if this is what you have then this is what you use in that last resort situation.

Spoiler

Honestly I would if I had to. If they can get up from a slug, lucky them. /shrug

 

If anyone has questions feel free to ask.

This is not or was not intended to be that end all answer but this all based on my experiences both from the military and my years in private security.

 

@fpo thanks for suggesting me to @Crunchy Dragon

I no longer work Private Security as of February this year [I retired from that line of work], but hopefully I put enough my 10 years of experience into this post for you all. I know more on this subject but I wont bore you guys to much. lol.

 

Photos for reference;

Spoiler

PDX "Home Defense shotgun shell

PDX 410

PDX 12G

 

Shotgun shell size chart.

 

Shotgun Pellet size chart.

 

[Real_PhillBert]

11 minutes ago, fpo said:

An FFL by me said that it's best to just buy a complete AR-15 as he has people coming in all the time saying "I tried to build an AR but..." and most of his service work is fixing AR-15 that other people couldn't put together properly & doing fitting and stuff.

I don't really want to bust out a sanding machines, so I was skeptical of building an AR-15. I just want to snap everything together, not operate a bunch of power tools. A hammer is fine but if I have to start drilling & stuff...

If you get quality parts, an AR can be assembled with a hammer, a roll pin punch, an armorers wrench, and a torque wrench. No drilling, no cutting, no grinding, no power tools. 

[Aimi]

3 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

**Please note: You cannot use expandable rifle ammunition for home defense. It is not legal in any US State that I know of [if anyone knows different please send some links so I can update what I know on this] it is meant for hunting and sold as such as far as I am aware.

I've never heard of any such laws. If hollow points are legal for a handgun, why wouldn't they be for a rifle? It doesn't make any sense to allow one but not the other.

Besides, any such laws could easily be played around by using a 'pistol' chambered in those rifle rounds.

[Guest]

 

9 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

1. Hollow point ammunition or "expandable ammo"
   • The ammunition expands or "mushrooms out" increasing the projectiles diameter buy 35-50% decreasing the chances of over penetration by a large margin but doesn't fully prevent overpenetration.
   • I use this in my everyday carry and home defense.
   • This ammunition is promote or advertised as a "Home Defense" ammunition.
   • Please, Do not mistake "Zombie ammunition" as home defense ammunition, Please.
   • Highly recommended by most Self Defense Instructors

I believe in the state of New Jersey or Connectucuit hollow point ammo is illegal because its "too lethal" or "inhumane" as it can "cut someone more than a normal bullet" if I remember the phrasing correctly.
Their hollow points are hollow points but with rubber or plastic poured into the hollow part to make it a round nose.

9 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

fpo thanks for suggesting me to crunchy dragon

I no longer work Private Security as of February this year [I retired from that line of work], but hopefully I put enough my 10 years of experience into this post for you all. I know more on this subject but I wont bore you guys to much. lol.

No problem. Thank you for providing the information!
I didn't want to at you incase you didn't want to share.

 

 

What do you mean by zombie ammo? Is that about that 2012 thing when the walking dead was popular & some hollow point ammo was rebranded "Zombie ammo?"

 

Why don't you like AR's being popular? No good control once the bullet leaves the gun? Overpenetration & stuff.

(The obvious would've been politics & you said not obvious)

 

14 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

If you get quality parts, an AR can be assembled with a hammer, a roll pin punch, an armorers wrench, and a torque wrench. No drilling, no cutting, no grinding, no power tools. 

Awesome! I hate tourque & allen wrenches... Maybe I can ask the companies for some Philips head screws haha.

Good to hear though. Thanks again!

[SansVarnic]

3 minutes ago, Aimi said:

I've never heard of any such laws. If hollow points are legal for a handgun, why wouldn't they be for a rifle? It doesn't make any sense to allow one but not the other.

Besides, any such laws could easily be played around by using a 'pistol' chambered in those rifle rounds.

Its a play-off from the Geneva convention about not using expandable ammo in war. Funny fact, the US never signed or agreed to this, btw.

Technically its not illegal but you can be or I should say, will be prosecuted for using it. A lot of prosecutors will take advantage of this and charge you for using it. This is partly why you cannot find expandable rifle ammunition outside "marked" hunting ammunition. It a stupid thing but it is a thing.

Also, this is why it took so long for expandable ammo to become a thing with handguns, the overpenetration argument is why we have been able to get past it. With rifles its a logic of excessive force, same stupid logic that was used against handgun expandable ammo.

/shrug.

Once it can be shown expandable ammo regardless of its use is an improved ammo, this argument will dry up. Honestly I see few uses of Ball ammo any more, its use case is smaller than expandable ammo. Imo.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Aimi said:

I've never heard of any such laws. If hollow points are legal for a handgun, why wouldn't they be for a rifle? It doesn't make any sense to allow one but not the other.

Besides, any such laws could easily be played around by using a 'pistol' chambered in those rifle rounds.

Depends on your state.
In new york assault weapons are illegal & a pistol assault weapon is any pistol where the ammunition is loaded somewhere other than the firing grip.

Also in my above reply I think in new jersey or ct hollow points are illegal because they can cut someone up on the inside when you shoot them.

[Aimi]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

This is partly why you cannot find expandable rifle ammunition outside "marked" hunting ammunition. It a stupid thing but it is a thing.

Yeah, about that...

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/223-remington-55-gr-critical-defense#!/

2 minutes ago, fpo said:

In new york assault weapons are illegal & a pistol assault weapon is any pistol where the ammunition is loaded somewhere other than the firing grip.

New York is a shithole so of course they push the "assault weapon" myth. Only way to play around their laws is to move out.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Its a play-off from the Geneva convention about not using expandable ammo in war. Funny fact, the US never signed or agreed to this, btw.

That's why the US is allowed to hire the mercenary company blackwater & all those other PMCs? haha.

The only ones that'd challenge the US in saying you can't do that would be Russia & China & I don't think they really want to fight a war with the USA. Well.. they're probably the only ones really capable of doing something about it alone. I think the EU is more of a club than a conglomerate.

Quote

Once it can be shown expandable ammo regardless of its use is an improved ammo, this argument will dry up. Honestly I see few uses of Ball ammo any more, its use case is smaller than expandable ammo. Imo.

1911s haha. And also my poor wallet

Edit:
I think I heard that AK47 can't load hollow points effectively. Only the traditional rifle shaped bullet.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Aimi said:

New York is a shithole so of course they push the "assault weapon" myth. Only way to play around their laws is to move out.

Don't worry.. soon...

 

Hey, at least I'm not California, Massachussets, New Jersey, nor connectucuit. Not saying much but... at least that.
</end politics>

[SansVarnic]

29 minutes ago, fpo said:

 

I believe in the state of New Jersey or Connectucuit hollow point ammo is illegal because its "too lethal" or "inhumane" as it can "cut someone more than a normal bullet" if I remember the phrasing correctly.
Their hollow points are hollow points but with rubber or plastic poured into the hollow part to make it a round nose.

No problem. Thank you for providing the information!
I didn't want to at you incase you didn't want to share.

I am very happy to engage and contribute here, I just dont get into conversation often as I would like to.

Please @ me anytime.

29 minutes ago, fpo said:

What do you mean by zombie ammo? Is that about that 2012 thing when the walking dead was popular & some hollow point ammo was rebranded "Zombie ammo?"

Pretty much that is what I was referring to. I remember when it first cam it was confusing for what is was used for and it was such niche market.

Just don't use it in self defense, some prosecutor may trump up the charges. 

29 minutes ago, fpo said:

Why don't you like AR's being popular? No good control once the bullet leaves the gun? Overpenetration & stuff.

(The obvious would've been politics & you said not obvious)

I love ARs, I own one and want another. I just dont suggest using them for self defense in a home defense situation for reasons I gave, mostly.

Thing is ARs are much easier to shoot than shot guns and handguns, more control. Problem I was getting to is the over penetration.

The post was more focused on the ammo so that is why I didnt go into the firearm itself. I wanted to stay on the topic I was asked to comment on.

 

23 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Yeah, about that...

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/223-remington-55-gr-critical-defense#!/

New York is a shithole so of course they push the "assault weapon" myth. Only way to play around their laws is to move out.

Well it does exist but its not common for the reason I gave, some states don't care others do and expandable rifle ammo is more expensive than standard ball ammo.

It will catch on.

Only thing is that rifle ammo is still a super-sonic round and even if it is expandable it has a higher chance of overpenetration at CQB distances. makes me wary of it in a home defense situation. It may even act similar to frangible because of the high velocity./shrug I would need to do some research on it.

22 minutes ago, fpo said:

That's why the US is allowed to hire the mercenary company blackwater & all those other PMCs? haha.

The only ones that'd challenge the US in saying you can't do that would be Russia & China & I don't think they really want to fight a war with the USA. Well.. they're probably the only ones really capable of doing something about it alone. I think the EU is more of a club than a conglomerate.

1911s haha. And also my poor wallet

Edit:
I think I heard that AK47 can't load hollow points effectively. Only the traditional rifle shaped bullet.

Its Funny since I just before left the Army they have been investigating options on integrating expandable ammo for common use and issue. Someone up top finally realized the US is not bound by the Geneva Conventions rule about expandable ammo. Lol.

 

20 minutes ago, fpo said:

Don't worry.. soon...

 

Hey, at least I'm not California, Massachussets, New Jersey, nor connectucuit. Not saying much but... at least that.
</end politics>

Happy I live Iowa....

[GDRRiley]

19 minutes ago, fpo said:

Hey, at least I'm not California, Massachussets, New Jersey, nor connectucuit. Not saying much but... at least that.
</end politics>

don't get me started on how stupid people are here.

[SansVarnic]

My go to self defense is my S&W M&P .40.

If I cant get to my handgun I have my Mossburg 12gauage shotgun loaded with #8 shot. Its kind of small pellet but it will do the trick in short order. Besides a 30inch long shotgun will make any perp pause long enough to put a few rounds into.

I have some PDX but I dont usualy have the shotgun in easy reach, I do plan to change this soon as I have plans to put a rifle rack in the bedroom for my wife as she likes the shotgun over the handgun any how. 

 

Shotguns are good for 2 things, emptying the mag and then using it as a bat. Very effective. Getting hit with 5lbs of steel will make anyone think twice. Lmao.

[Aimi]

3 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

#8 shot

Like the target load? I think you should find something better to use. #8 is going to be like shooting lead sand at an intruder, and it's not going to be strong enough to cause an immediate stop. You'll also likely end up with a substantial amount of spread if you're not super close to your target.

Consider getting #4 Buckshot, it's highly unlikely to overpenetrate and will be a great deal more effective than what you have now.

[SansVarnic]

29 minutes ago, Aimi said:

Like the target load? I think you should find something better to use. #8 is going to be like shooting lead sand at an intruder, and it's not going to be strong enough to cause an immediate stop. You'll also likely end up with a substantial amount of spread if you're not super close to your target.

Consider getting #4 Buckshot, it's highly unlikely to overpenetrate and will be a great deal more effective than what you have now.

Nah, Im not worried about it. Its not my go to. Beside I have PDX and also I live in a small town.

My .40 sits in the top drawer of my dresser and its easier to get to. When I build the rifle rack ill re-load the shotgun with the PDX  

[Guest]

I was going to make a joke about custom shotgun shells but Demolition Ranch removed his old videos where he made custom shotgun shells by putting random crap in ammo like screws and batteries...

 

I'll post the second part:
 

Spoiler

 

[SansVarnic]

15 minutes ago, fpo said:

I was going to make a joke about custom shotgun shells but Demolition Ranch removed his old videos where he made custom shotgun shells by putting random crap in ammo like screws and batteries...

 

I'll post the second part:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I saw that, funny but I think I know why it was removed. Safety or something since he was shooting some very sketchy stuff. Like that battery.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I saw that, funny but I think I know why it was removed. Safety or something since he was shooting some very sketchy stuff. Like that battery.

I miss those old videos... He still has the microwaving shotgun shells. I forget what exactly happened.