NVIDIA have been hit with a class action suit over the GTX 970.

[Guest Kloaked]

There wasn't any option to turn those fancy effects off in this benchmark unfortunately, so in this instance it seemed

quite forceful. And if a cheaper nvidia card could run this game better than a 280x. I don't see how I'm paying a premium. :huh:

I understand that you could turn those effects off in other games though :lol:

But you're running a benchmark for a game that's not even out yet. If it has Gameworks, of course Nvidia is going to have first dibs at optimizations since Nvidia's software engineers are working with the devs.

When AMD gets their drivers ready for it, then judge it.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

But you're running a benchmark for a game that's not even out yet. If it has Gameworks, of course Nvidia is going to have first dibs at optimizations since Nvidia's software engineers are working with the devs.

When AMD gets their drivers ready for it, then judge it.

 

Oh my, you must have missed my previous post. This game has been out for quite sometime in China.

Just not in the rest of the world :< *cries* 

[McMurderMonkey]

Not everything. I generally think lawsuits are stupid, but in this case I think it's completely justified, they lied about it, made up a bullshit excuse, and then offered absolutely nothing for their customers who felt wronged. a 20% refund? They might has well have spat in our faces and said "fuck you, we got your money, use the damned thing as a coaster, we don't care"

I understand if you feel angry, and you have the right to be, but a class action lawsuit is not the right way to go about showing it.

[patrickjp93]

Haha. I guess they were paid by nvidia to not insert that code :<

Doubtful, more like amateur work.

[Guest Kloaked]

Oh my, you must have missed my previous post. This game has been out for quite sometime in China.

Just not in the rest of the world :< *cries*

But I thought everyone here was from Murica.

But for serious, unless AMD has released drivers for the game I wouldn't judge it yet. If anything, the only assumption could be made is that AMD is at fault (not like AMD is being lazy, maybe they just don't have the resources for the game yet) that it doesn't run as well on their cards yet.

[Victorious Secret]

@Kloaked @mr moose

I guess somehow we all became Nvidia shareholders. LOL. I mean...wow. Amazing. 

 

The only company I actually hold shares in would be Tesla, and since Nvidia has a micro-architecture called Tesla I guess I'm on their payroll!

 

This kind of detective work belongs in /r/shittyconspiracies 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

But I thought everyone here was from Murica.

But for serious, unless AMD has released drivers for the game I wouldn't judge it yet. If anything, the only assumption could be made is that AMD is at fault (not like AMD is being lazy, maybe they just don't have the resources for the game yet) that it doesn't run as well on their cards yet.

 

Maybe? There was no mention of AMD in the site anywhere though :B

 

Doubtful, more like amateur work.

 

Haha i don't think Capcom would leave their "Monster Hunter" title in the hands of amateurs. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Maybe? There was no mention of AMD in the site anywhere though :B

Haha i don't think Capcom would leave their "Monster Hunter" title in the hands of amateurs.

They probably won't ever mention it on their website since it's an nvidia title, ha. Whenever it released in the US is when I'd expect some work on an AMD driver to start.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

They probably won't ever mention it on their website since it's an nvidia title, ha. Whenever it released in the US is when I'd expect some work on an AMD driver to start.

 

I just hope i doesn't get ip locked :B 

I don't live in the US  

Great games like vindictus are ip banned :'<

[Arreat]

- too much to quote

 

I'm sorry but all I read is just speculation . I get that you read alot of articles here and there but without actually seeing this things in work , you have no idea what you are talking about (i dont mean to insult) .

About tesselation . I don't think you are fully aware what it is . The tesselation you can "turn off" when given the option is just a small cosmetic stuff , ie. bricks poping out of a wall . The tesselation I am talking about is build into the way for example terrain is build . Terrain get more and more triangles the closer to your character it gets , and loses them the further you look . This allows for big open seamless worlds . Without it you would a) have bunch of pop in while traversing the landmass , or have a GIANT performance drop . There are other things tess is essential for - displacing waves in an ocean for example . 

 

Game works is much more than people see on the surface . Have you seen CLOTH in any game in the last 5 years - APEX cloth . It runs fine on both GPU manufacturers . Hell the new unreal engine 4's phisics are based off of nvidia tech . And i will tell you its one of the best optimised newer engines so far (for both cards) . 

 

Another point you made was something about consoles . The fact that on paper a gpu is 4x more powerful than a PS4 has absolutely no merrit in this discussion . 

It is way too much to explain here , but simply put a console game is a totally different game than what we play . PC not only has some overhead in directX but it also realies on some very heavy effects , that don't provide too much visual fidelity . Consoles don't use them . Technically speaking if you are running a game maxed out with 4xMSAA at 1080p at 60fps you are already running a 2 maybe 3 times heavier game than the PS4 .

 

I am not saing gameworks is a god send ... it has its problems like any tech . It is up to developers to make it work for them . But it is out there , it will force others , AMD , maybe some 3rd party , to release more tools , more robust and more universally optimised . In that regard gameworks is too much like mantle is for the api's . 

[Guest Kloaked]

-snip-

 

Are you someone who has actually worked in game development? Because I have a couple questions.

[Arreat]

I have some experience with it , mostly I work with cgi , but i do have a few friends that have been going in and out of the industry during the years . But maybe it would be apropriate to ask me in private message , this is already way off topic here . 

[deathjester]

@Kloaked @mr moose

I guess somehow we all became Nvidia shareholders. LOL. I mean...wow. Amazing. 

 

The only company I actually hold shares in would be Tesla, and since Nvidia has a micro-architecture called Tesla I guess I'm on their payroll!

 

This kind of detective work belongs in /r/shittyconspiracies 

 

 

I have some experience with it , mostly I work with cgi , but i do have a few friends that have been going in and out of the industry during the years . But maybe it would be apropriate to ask me in private message , this is already way off topic here . 

 

^ 9 total posts on this forum. EVER. Most of it coming to the aid of Nvidia on this thread. Claims to have "insider privileged information" and talks down to people attempting to sway opinion with garbage.

 

I am sure he just showed up on this thread and forum randomly though. Also "astroturfing" is not a "consipracy", it is criminal activity that is practiced by big companies like Microsoft. Examples of astroturfing with Microsoft.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365060/microsoft-caught-astroturfing-bloggers-again-to-promote-internet-explorer.html

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/anonymous-comments-on-lumia-800-review-traced-back-to-nokia-and-microsoft-ip-addresses/17402

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/01/20/is-microsoft-paying-youtubers-to-promote-xbox-one/ 

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/23/news/mn-37472 

 

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010823&slug=microlob23 

 

http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/AstroTurfing 

 

Comes Vs Microsoft Court Documents PDF file. Page 55 is a blast. http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03096.pdf

 

 

I'm sorry but all I read is just speculation . I get that you read alot of articles here and there but without actually seeing this things in work , you have no idea what you are talking about (i dont mean to insult) .

About tesselation . I don't think you are fully aware what it is . The tesselation you can "turn off" when given the option is just a small cosmetic stuff , ie. bricks poping out of a wall . The tesselation I am talking about is build into the way for example terrain is build . Terrain get more and more triangles the closer to your character it gets , and loses them the further you look . This allows for big open seamless worlds . Without it you would a) have bunch of pop in while traversing the landmass , or have a GIANT performance drop . There are other things tess is essential for - displacing waves in an ocean for example . 

 

Game works is much more than people see on the surface . Have you seen CLOTH in any game in the last 5 years - APEX cloth . It runs fine on both GPU manufacturers . Hell the new unreal engine 4's phisics are based off of nvidia tech . And i will tell you its one of the best optimised newer engines so far (for both cards) . 

 

Another point you made was something about consoles . The fact that on paper a gpu is 4x more powerful than a PS4 has absolutely no merrit in this discussion . 

It is way too much to explain here , but simply put a console game is a totally different game than what we play . PC not only has some overhead in directX but it also realies on some very heavy effects , that don't provide too much visual fidelity . Consoles don't use them . Technically speaking if you are running a game maxed out with 4xMSAA at 1080p at 60fps you are already running a 2 maybe 3 times heavier game than the PS4 .

 

I am not saing gameworks is a god send ... it has its problems like any tech . It is up to developers to make it work for them . But it is out there , it will force others , AMD , maybe some 3rd party , to release more tools , more robust and more universally optimised . In that regard gameworks is too much like mantle is for the api's . 

 

It is not speculation. People with GTX 770's did it with Watch Dogs. Performance increased drastically. That is called empirical proof and not "speculation".   People here can turn down tessellation in catalyst or Nvidia Control Panel and see stuttering go away in a game like Watch Dogs on a card like a GTX 770.  Apex cloth does not kill a R9 290 on performance. Neither does HBAO +. In fact my Tri-x beat out a friends 780ti and my sisters 970 in Far Cry 4 with tree tessellation off.

 

"PC not only has some overhead in directX but it also realies on some very heavy effects ". Consoles are also running a 1.6 and 1.7ghz mobile CPU with 6 cores available to the SDK (which puts them at under a 6300FX at that clock), 2 reserved to the OS, and the PS4 has the wrong, high latency ram for CPU. Spare me with the overhead. The game developers said the CPU power in the PS4 was almost the same as the PS3 (which is pathetic). Low level API's (Pc's) will help but we will see drastic swings on top end CPU's on PC exclusives and not console ports. They WILL help budget CPU's. CPU bound is also not GPU bound and our CPU's already have higher low FPS than the consoles in these games so the point you are making is laughable. 

 

As far as "effects", again HBAO is not a 4x performance hit. If you take HBAO off you are not coming close to 4x the resolution on a Game Works game. View distance can come into the equation, but again. I am comparing games with = settings there. We are not comparing draw distance in say Guild Wars 2 which these consoles couldn't run anyways, even with their low level API. I would love to see them try though. Would be an awesome slide show. Would prob run 15 FPS on the XB1 due to having better ram for CPU and 10 on the PS4.

 

BTW the reason it fixed stuttering in Watchdog's especially while driving is all the tessellation done which was not needed or done on the consoles. Sorry Nvidia. No one believes you. We can turn this crap off ourselves and in a game like Far Cry 4 the bump mapping on trees looks better than the tessellation on trees.

 

At least in that game Ubisoft gave us the option to turn the crap off. Didn't stop websites from benchmarking the game with the setting on though, even though it was added the day of release and gave a worse picture than with the option off. Also did not stop some sites from refusing to use AMD beta drivers to benchmark that came out the day before release.

 

Linus Tech Tips would be one of those sites. They benchmarked without the new driver and were called out by many on this forum for it who were not seeing near their benchmark numbers. 

[Victorious Secret]

snipped for sanity

 

You must be exhausted since you keep spinning the same tired old shit in our faces about astroturfing and being "shills" and the same Comes v. MS nonsense. 

Jesus christ, how big is your tinfoil hat? His viewpoints have the same authority as yours. Do you realize how many people are on LTT who lurk but never comment, or how many people can make throwaway accounts to discuss matters like these without risking their identity being found out? Why is it so hard for you to understand that just because someone defends another company, doesn't make them a fanboy or astroturfer or whatever other accusation you have written in your "How to post shitposts" diary. 

 

 

 

 

At least in that game Ubisoft gave us the option to turn the crap off. Didn't stop websites from benchmarking the game with the setting on though, even though it was added the day of release and gave a worse picture than with the option off. Also did not stop some sites from refusing to use AMD beta drivers to benchmark that came out the day before release.

 

Linus Tech Tips would be one of those sites. They benchmarked without the new driver and were called out by many on this forum for it who were not seeing near their benchmark numbers. 

 

 

Slick already responded to your accusations in that previous thread on how the benchmarks were done and you mysteriously pissed off once you realized you had been called out by a owner of this site. Don't bring that back into this as if it has any validity in the "points" you're trying to prove. 

[deathjester]

You must be exhausted since you keep spinning the same tired old shit in our faces about astroturfing and being "shills" and the same Comes v. MS nonsense. 

Jesus christ, how big is your tinfoil hat? His viewpoints have the same authority as yours. Do you realize how many people are on LTT who lurk but never comment, or how many people can make throwaway accounts to discuss matters like these without risking their identity being found out? Why is it so hard for you to understand that just because someone defends another company, doesn't make them a fanboy or astroturfer or whatever other bullshit accusation you have written in your "How to post shitposts" diary. 

 

You must be exhausted from uttering the same old insults when empirical proof is offered of what you call "theories". Probably have a sore finger from upvoting the exact same people in every thread, just like they upvote you as well.

 

Sucker is born every minute though, maybe you can convince them there is no such thing as astroturfers, when tech companies engage in this often and are caught. 

 

Good luck with that. I guess when you can't argue court documents, numerous occasions of forum manipulation and HARASSMENT of people just trying to use a forum? You result to insults.  Fortunately I think the average LTT reader can see that this is a problem, that companies like Microsoft engage in this and can see a "new "poster" whom claims to be a insider and who supports a company to the death out of the blue as what he is...

 

But yup. Upvote the criminal. Harass the person calling it out. Too funny. He should be working at Mcdonald's btw. Not very good at his job. 

[Trik'Stari]

How in fuck is this thread still going?

[Victorious Secret]

How in fuck is this thread still going?

 

 

Because...internet? 

 

Yes. Because internet. 

 

OMG. After I made this comment, Bing showed up as "people viewing this topic". CONSPIRACY THEORY! Bing is making sure we don't say bad things about MS...Pls Bing don't take away my employee expense account! 

 

/s 

[Trik'Stari]

Because...internet? 

 

Yes. Because internet. 

I guess. Even though we both know my position on this topic, I gave up arguing about it because:

1. It doesn't matter what any of us think

2. All we can do is sit back and watch.

[deathjester]

I guess. Even though we both know my position on this topic, I gave up arguing about it because:

1. It doesn't matter what any of us think

2. All we can do is sit back and watch.

 

You should be laughing. We have "company insiders with connections" whom don't know the difference between CPU bound/GPU bound showing up on this thread on a new account to defend a company, and being upvoted....

 

Most hilarious thing I have ever seen. 

 

Funny thing is people think I am upset? I am rolling on the floor at this thread. Company lied, company issued spec statements that were false on ROPs/Cache. Lawsuit will be successful. Pretty much it, cept we have people thinking they can get lawyers to turn down free money by swaying opinion of something that is no longer in their hands (and it is usually the same people in every thread defending these companies). 

 

It is in the hands of the lawyers now and they are seeing a new boat, BMW and they are not reading Linus Tech Tips. If you are a shareholder and worried about this, you should be contacting the lawyers. Please record the phone call for comedy.

[Skrizzles]

I've thought about this and i'm confused...

 

For about $200 less you can have a gpu that is nearly identical to a 980, but with -10% performance?

 

who's crying? Nvidia gave you the chance to get great gaming AND save a metric shit-ton of money($200 can go a long way if  ya know how.)

 

 

[Shahnewaz]

Just to add to @deathjester's point.....

(They are all one complete story)

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-derek-perez-responds/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-perez-they-act-as-our-voice/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/08/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/09/dear-nvidias-mister-perez/

Also I've heard that advertising companies like Ayzenberg ride on this boat too.

[Michael McAllister]

Just to add to @deathjester's point.....

(They are all one complete story)

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-derek-perez-responds/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-perez-they-act-as-our-voice/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/08/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/09/dear-nvidias-mister-perez/

Also I've heard that advertising companies like Ayzenberg ride on this boat too.

 

If you're trying to make a point, it's best not to use a singular source.

[Shahnewaz]

If you're trying to make a point, it's best not to use a singular source.

I'm not making a point, @deathjester has done well to explain/elaborate his arguments. I'm just adding some to his already stated arguments.

[Razzaa]

Just to add to @deathjester's point.....

(They are all one complete story)

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-derek-perez-responds/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/nvidias-perez-they-act-as-our-voice/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/08/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program/

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/09/dear-nvidias-mister-perez/

Also I've heard that advertising companies like Ayzenberg ride on this boat too.

This is smart marketing. I wouldn't be upset about that strategy and the way they market at all. 

[Zulkkis]

I've thought about this and i'm confused...

 

For about $200 less you can have a gpu that is nearly identical to a 980, but with -10% performance?

 

who's crying? Nvidia gave you the chance to get great gaming AND save a metric shit-ton of money($200 can go a long way if  ya know how.)

 

According to the specs, -20%. The only thing 970 was said to have less was the amount of CUDA cores and slightly lower clocks (and you could OC it anyway).

 

When you give the whole card smaller bandwidth (even the 3.5GB), and the rest of the memory is rarely usable, the differences become larger. Especially since you can complement with the smaller CUDA core count by sticking more cards into an SLI-configuration, but you can't up the memory bandwidth or the amount of available VRAM that way.

 

It's still a good card, nobody's denying that, but I'd say it's a good thing that the legal system is telling nVidia to not pull bullshit like this. Remember, they only came forward about this after users had noticed that something was wrong. I don't understand the sentiment of having to be thankful to nVidia, especially since the cards have very good margins to begin with (sure, most of the cost is RnD, but if there was tighter competition they wouldn't be selling you flagships cards with 256-bit bus).