NVIDIA have been hit with a class action suit over the GTX 970.

[kpreg]

First off. You totally missed my point. Its not whether or not the card is supported. But rather with even SUPPORTED cards the camera locks up at 87.5% full and I sold it not saying anything. I don't know about you but if you in no way found it even remotely shady. Then I don't really want to even bother trying to explain anymore cause you're too caught up with NVIDIA.

2nd off. The SSD sounded good eh? But its not. Not even by a mile. It's common knowledge that all storage medium slows down when approaching capacity, also the slow down is typically not that extreme. With graphics card its not at all. Look at the 980, 290/X all these 4GB cards DONT behave in the same way as the 970 does. The 970 is the odd one out. Infact if you want to use that argument about storage medium I would then say that kind of scenario is what I personally am trying to avoid with this entire vram issue. Stop giving the companies any room to do this lest in the future we have to start giving advice like "we need at least a gpu that doesn't use up more than 3/4 of its vram or it would slowdown."

Edit : If NVIDIA had handled this differently, maybe apologized and seem abit more apologetic about this. I wouldn't bother shaking the tree and give them a benefit of doubt. I mean even Apple had to give in to consumer over the antenna issue (still not the best way to resolve it but there was some form of resolution) so why are we giving Nvidia so much leeway when they haven't done much to redeem themselves? Their actions thus far just seem as tho they just want to sweep it under the rug. At least to me.

While I agree with most of that, I wouldn't say it's common knowledge that storage slows down when reaching maximum compacity. But a GPU's VRAM's speed is MUCH more important than the speed of a hard drive. 

 

Honestly if NVIDIA had appoligized I would only be half as mad as I am now. I mean no compensation?

"We lied. Enjoy staring at my ass, and don't expect refunds." -nvidia's ceo

[Ex14]

While I agree with most of that, I wouldn't say it's common knowledge that storage slows down when reaching maximum compacity. But a GPU's VRAM's speed is MUCH more important than the speed of a hard drive.

I think its more of a common knowledge or at least the same to peoples knowledge of sad vs hdd.

Btw I don't think GPU ram > Storage it depends on usage really.

[Victorious Secret]

 

Honestly if NVIDIA had appoligized I would only be half as mad as I am now. I mean no compensation?

"We lied. Enjoy staring at my ass, and don't expect refunds." -nvidia's ceo

 

They won't open themselves up to further litigation by openly admitting they screwed up. They'll settle in court under a seal and no one will know what the settlement ever was. Thats how these things work, thats how it continues to work. 

[zacRupnow]

little innocent goody two shoes.

CDProjektRed

[TheSLSAMG]

CDProjektRed

Aren't they the Witcher devs?

[Victorious Secret]

@TheSLSAMG, I know you'll appreciate this example:

Ferrari often sends out tuned cars to the press. What do I mean by tuned? I mean, they send you a goddamn Ferrari engineering team along with the car to tune it to whatever track and conditions they are permitting the press to test drive the car at. Jesus, these guys will tune a car FOR A SERIES OF BACKROADS if they need to, not just track stuff. 

Normal owners don't get that kind of thing though. They aren't buying the car that the magazines tested. They're getting a slower car once they sign on the dotted line for their $350,000 458. Do they care? Not particularly. And I'd wager a supercar is a lot more relevant to the average citizen than a performance GPU. Honestly. Ferrari > Nvidia in this for how important this is to your average joe and guess what? 

Both are several thousand orders of a magnitude below truly important shit in the eyes of the law and the lawyers and well, even me. 

People don't want to understand that we aren't condoning Nvidia here. We're mad at them, but what can you do? Honestly? Speak up, beyond buying AMD (which I don't want to do, because until they have lower TDP its pointless in my mini builds) what can you do? All companies don't just lie, they actively figure out how much they can get away with on a daily basis. Stop acting like ANYONE is innocent in anything and stop being white knights acting so offended (and so personally insulted) that your good old pals at Nvidia would lie to you. 

Ugh. This entire situation. Absurd. All we're telling them in the future to be more sneaky about it. Oh, we're telling the lawyers to have several lifetimes of vacations about it as well while we enjoy 15 dollar gift cards to the Nvidia store. 

[TheSLSAMG]

@TheSLSAMG, I know you'll appreciate this example:

Ferrari often sends out tuned cars to the press. What do I mean by tuned? I mean, they send you a goddamn Ferrari engineering team along with the car to tune it to whatever track and conditions they are permitting the press to test drive the car at. Jesus, these guys will tune a car FOR A SERIES OF BACKROADS if they need to, not just track stuff. 

Normal owners don't get that kind of thing though. They aren't buying the car that the magazines tested. They're getting a slower car once they sign on the dotted line for their $350,000 458. Do they care? Not particularly. And I'd wager a supercar is a lot more relevant to the average citizen than a performance GPU. Honestly. Ferrari > Nvidia in this for how important this is to your average joe and guess what? 

Both are several thousand orders of a magnitude below truly important shit in the eyes of the law and the lawyers and well, even me. 

People don't want to understand that we aren't condoning Nvidia here. We're mad at them, but what can you do? Honestly? Speak up, beyond buying AMD (which I don't want to do, because until they have lower TDP its pointless in my mini builds) what can you do? All companies don't just lie, they actively figure out how much they can get away with on a daily basis. Stop acting like ANYONE is innocent in anything and stop being white knights acting so offended (and so personally insulted) that your good old pals at Nvidia would lie to you. 

Ugh. This entire situation. Absurd. All we're telling them in the future to be more sneaky about it. Oh, we're telling the lawyers to have several lifetimes of vacations about it as well while we enjoy 15 dollar gift cards to the Nvidia store. 

Eh, either way I've decided to put this issue down, block the proper people and move on.

[Victorious Secret]

Eh, either way I've decided to put this issue down, block the proper people and move on.

 

Not till we stop getting 10+ page threads everytime someone even says "Nvidia" will we get over this. And that probably sounds dismissive and it honestly is. Every single thread, like clockwork, circles back to the same 2-3 viewpoints repeated over and over.

 

We already have a lovely thread to do that, stick to it I say. 

[LAwLz]

First off. You totally missed my point. Its not whether or not the card is supported. But rather with even SUPPORTED cards the camera locks up at 87.5% full and I sold it not saying anything. I don't know about you but if you in no way found it even remotely shady. Then I don't really want to even bother trying to explain anymore cause you're too caught up with NVIDIA.

Oh I am "caught up with NVIDIA"? Yeah, I sure love Nvidia. Called them idiots when they started suing Samsung. Compared GameWorks to AIDS in some thread (although I did say Mantle was HIV). Have time and time said their mobile chips are shit for phones. The last Nvidia GPU I even bought was the 8500 GT (every single card since then has been AMD). Nvidia is one of the companies I despise the most. The problem is that this forum is littered with AMD fanboys so whenever I try to take a neutral stance, I look like a fanboy in comparison to the huge AMD fanboys.

 

I just think that people are blowing this way out of proportions, and stupid analogies don't help the situation. A class action lawsuit will only hurt consumers in the long run.

 

 

2nd off. The SSD sounded good eh? But its not. Not even by a mile. It's common knowledge that all storage medium slows down when approaching capacity, also the slow down is typically not that extreme. With graphics card its not at all. Look at the 980, 290/X all these 4GB cards DONT behave in the same way as the 970 does. The 970 is the odd one out. Infact if you want to use that argument about storage medium I would then say that kind of scenario is what I personally am trying to avoid with this entire vram issue. Stop giving the companies any room to do this lest in the future we have to start giving advice like "we need at least a gpu that doesn't use up more than 3/4 of its vram or it would slowdown."

It's not common knowledge that your storage performance is dramatically reduced when you have a low amount of spare area, at least not with SSDs. I see lots of people with almost full mobile phones, even though having them so full dramatically reduces performance.

If you don't think going from ~50,00 IOPS to ~7500 IOPS is "not that extreme" then I don't know what to tell you. That's actually a bigger drop in performance that the GTX 970 drops.

 

I am not trying to let Nvidia get away with anything. What I am saying is that they have already learned their lesson and any further actions (such as this lawsuit) will not help anyone, not even the consumers it is pretending to help. There is a line between "making sure they don't do it again" and "let's beat them up because it's fun", and that line was crossed a long long time ago.

 

Also, I really dislike misinformation and the anti-Nvidia side is spreading a ton of it in this thread. It's everything from "GameWorks cripples AMD!" (I am calling it misinformation because it has not been proven at all, and since some GameWork games also runs like crap on Nvidia hardware it is pretty safe to say that it's just that Ubisoft sucks) to "the 970 only has 3.5GB of VRAM! It doesn't have 4GB!" (which is wrong because it actually does have 4GB of VRAM. It's just that not all 4GBs has the same bandwidth).

 

If you are going to talk shit about a company then at least stick to the truth. Don't lie to make them seem worse.

[zacRupnow]

Aren't they the Witcher devs?

yup

[DarkIdeals]

The other manufacturers pulled the cards?

 

Please, let me jump off a bridge for not having the opportunity to read other users' posts due to my opening the topic before others could even post.  <_<

You misunderstood, i wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about him, he's being sarcastic, he's not really saying gigabyte is the only one making cards anymore. He's trying to insult the fact t hat gigabyte was the only one put in the lawsuit so far even though the reason why was explained one post above him and on several other occasions. So don't take that as an insult as i wasn't referring to you, i was just being sarcastic right back at him.

[DarkIdeals]

The ONLY people bitching and moaning are obviously AMD. Frankly only people who bought the 970 should be the ones commenting, because there's no need for them to justify their purchasing decisions to anyone else.

Wanna see my 970s? Is this going to turn into an immature "pics or ur an AMD-fanboi" clusterfrick?

[TheSLSAMG]

I get the eeking suspicion that this is getting locked.

[Ex14]

Oh I am "caught up with NVIDIA"? Yeah, I sure love Nvidia. Called them idiots when they started suing Samsung. Compared GameWorks to AIDS in some thread (although I did say Mantle was HIV). Have time and time said their mobile chips are shit for phones. The last Nvidia GPU I even bought was the 8500 GT (every single card since then has been AMD). Nvidia is one of the companies I despise the most. The problem is that this forum is littered with AMD fanboys so whenever I try to take a neutral stance, I look like a fanboy in comparison to the huge AMD fanboys.

I just think that people are blowing this way out of proportions, and stupid analogies don't help the situation. A class action lawsuit will only hurt consumers in the long run.

It's not common knowledge that your storage performance is dramatically reduced when you have a low amount of spare area, at least not with SSDs. I see lots of people with almost full mobile phones, even though having them so full dramatically reduces performance.

If you don't think going from ~50,00 IOPS to ~7500 IOPS is "not that extreme" then I don't know what to tell you. That's actually a bigger drop in performance that the GTX 970 drops.

I am not trying to let Nvidia get away with anything. What I am saying is that they have already learned their lesson and any further actions (such as this lawsuit) will not help anyone, not even the consumers it is pretending to help. There is a line between "making sure they don't do it again" and "let's beat them up because it's fun", and that line was crossed a long long time ago.

Also, I really dislike misinformation and the anti-Nvidia side is spreading a ton of it in this thread. It's everything from "GameWorks cripples AMD!" (I am calling it misinformation because it has not been proven at all, and since some GameWork games also runs like crap on Nvidia hardware it is pretty safe to say that it's just that Ubisoft sucks) to "the 970 only has 3.5GB of VRAM! It doesn't have 4GB!" (which is wrong because it actually does have 4GB of VRAM. It's just that not all 4GBs has the same bandwidth).

If you are going to talk shit about a company then at least stick to the truth. Don't lie to make them seem worse.

I see you totally ignored the two more important parts of it. But no matter. In case you haven't noticed personally and a few other people as well, we don't parade around saying such lies as fact. I am full aware its a full 4gb of VRAM, but its still not at full bandwidth like you said. Why it matters so much (personally) is because VRAM is pretty important for 4k and maybe even 1440p gaming, and as stupid as it sounds its important for some one like me when making decisions when I buy a card. When I see 4GB on the box of a gpu, I expect it to work like all other gpu and have full 4GB at full bandwidth all the time. I didn't want to bring it up but lets not kid ourselves when NVIDIA slapped a 4GB spec on their cards when they pushed them out. Its to appeal to the <1080/surround peeps ,be it single card or Sli, and I have seen many recommendations from people including people here for these sort of setups. And while it might barely but it now, what happens in the future? "future proofing" is stupid. Sorry but I do look at specs other than benchmarks to determine the longevity of a gpu. And like many has said current games don't tax the gpu that much yet, but what if the future?

Also I think people fill their phones up because to them its a different device, on a computer most people I believe do know that filling up space is detrimental to the perf. Forgoing even that, this information is readily available from the start (filling up causes slowdowns) however this is not true of the 970. Even people who did their research wouldn't have known. Which once again brings me to the same point in worried about. We should hold NVIDIA accountable . More accountable in fact as that have done this before. Lest this inaction creates future scenarios where we have to check every gpu for this stupid non transparent thing and we have to give the same advice for gpu as we do for had.

Edit: Also you said they're helping. Un what way? They didn't so much as apologized? Ug you're gonna bring up the "help" that's being doled out on their forum...then I don't know. I thought ay first it was the step in the right direction. But their non action thus far kinda leads me to believe otherwise. Also I do agree some people have been talking out of their asses and have taken. It over the line, but the resistance that alot of people have given in support of NVIDIA kinda worries me more than the idiots who are in it for other motives unclear to me. Hence me replying even tho I'm not a 970 owner. Thus WILL affect me in the future when I upgrade to other cards tho.

[Lewellyn]

Wanna see my 970s? Is this going to turn into an immature "pics or ur an AMD-fanboi" clusterfrick?

 

I was being incredibly facetious, paying homage to a lot of the crap I've seen.

[DarkIdeals]

They won't open themselves up to further litigation by openly admitting they screwed up. They'll settle in court under a seal and no one will know what the settlement ever was. Thats how these things work, thats how it continues to work. 

Unless someone on the inside happens to inform others of that amount...

[flibberdipper]

You misunderstood, i wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about him, he's being sarcastic, he's not really saying gigabyte is the only one making cards anymore. He's trying to insult the fact t hat gigabyte was the only one put in the lawsuit so far even though the reason why was explained one post above him and on several other occasions. So don't take that as an insult as i wasn't referring to you, i was just being sarcastic right back at him.

Oh, my bad man. It was late, and I was misunderstanding things.

[DarkIdeals]

@TheSLSAMG, I know you'll appreciate this example:

Ferrari often sends out tuned cars to the press. What do I mean by tuned? I mean, they send you a goddamn Ferrari engineering team along with the car to tune it to whatever track and conditions they are permitting the press to test drive the car at. Jesus, these guys will tune a car FOR A SERIES OF BACKROADS if they need to, not just track stuff. 

Normal owners don't get that kind of thing though. They aren't buying the car that the magazines tested. They're getting a slower car once they sign on the dotted line for their $350,000 458. Do they care? Not particularly. And I'd wager a supercar is a lot more relevant to the average citizen than a performance GPU. Honestly. Ferrari > Nvidia in this for how important this is to your average joe and guess what? 

Both are several thousand orders of a magnitude below truly important shit in the eyes of the law and the lawyers and well, even me. 

People don't want to understand that we aren't condoning Nvidia here. We're mad at them, but what can you do? Honestly? Speak up, beyond buying AMD (which I don't want to do, because until they have lower TDP its pointless in my mini builds) what can you do? All companies don't just lie, they actively figure out how much they can get away with on a daily basis. Stop acting like ANYONE is innocent in anything and stop being white knights acting so offended (and so personally insulted) that your good old pals at Nvidia would lie to you. 

Ugh. This entire situation. Absurd. All we're telling them in the future to be more sneaky about it. Oh, we're telling the lawyers to have several lifetimes of vacations about it as well while we enjoy 15 dollar gift cards to the Nvidia store. 

That's a ridiculous and incorrect metaphor. Ferrari doesn't advertise free press crews in their marketing. The day that ferrari offers a lifetime of free tune-ups in the form of a crew of slave workers to follow you around in any magazine ad, tv commercial, billboard etc.. i'll agree with you; but they wouldn't do anything remotely similar to that.  

 

California law states that in order for something to be considered false advertising, it has to be something that a reasonable informed consumer would expect to receive from the product based on marketing and research. If you did any kind of research on ferrari's and had any common sense you would OBVIOULSY know it didn't come with a crew of workers following you around...assuming you aren't mentally disabled in some way i guess. But based on Nvidia's advertising and marketing that they STILL advertise on their site, anyone reading the info would see the specs listing 4gb of full speed gddr5 memory, 64 rop, and 2mb L2 cache as well as things like "offers the greatest gaming experience at ultra 4k resolutions" that is right on the box of the reference nvidia, as well as AIO gigabyte, etc.. cards. This is obviously something that a reasonable customer who read the specifications would expect to receive when they purchased the product, because nvidia put it on their site and in ads and on boxes. There is an implied TRUST between a business and customer. Your excuse is that we shouldn't be surprised, all kinda of companies lie.

 

But i propose to you, why do you think that way? Is this the way things SHOULD be? From your post it appears that you think just because it "does" happen alot, that it "should" happen. This is the reason we need to take a stand against it, even if it gets us nowhere in the end, because it will discourage further illegal behavior and lies, and at the very least you can say you stood up for what was right.

[Liren]

Source - http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887234/nvidia-hit-with-false-advertising-suit-over-gtx-970-performance.html

 

 

This is kind of a big deal. Basically, they're being hit with a suit along with Gigabyte, though I don't see what they have to do with it. Not too suprising though. How do I feel? I don't know. I think it's a waste of time. Companies lie to you people. All of them. None of them are little innocent goody two shoes. Not to say that there's an excuse for lying. There isn't, but don't be suprised if they are lying to you.

 

Apparently this was on the WAN Show. HI MOM!

Poor gigabyte , out of all GPU manufacturers 

[DarkIdeals]

I was being incredibly facetious, paying homage to a lot of the crap I've seen.

Ahh i see. Well anyway i can still post the pictures if people truly don't believe me. Hell the pics are in the legal paperwork Exhibit E if you look it up.

 

 

I understand that some people may just be jumping on the bandwagon so to speak, but i truly am having horrible problems with the 970 in vram intensive situations. Any game at 4k runs poorly, with much lower minimum fps than even an R9 290 or even a 280X in many cases, as well as having stuttering and freezing, and this is on SLI so you would expect fps to at least be playable, even the minimums. Then at 1440p at least half the games i've tried do it, they'll freeze for several seconds at a time and then restart in games like shadow of mordor, dying light, texture modded skyrim etc.. and even at "lowly" 1080p i get pretty bad stuttering on the above-mentioned games. And it's literally made the cards un-usable for the college classes i was planning to take, when using the programs you are expected to use for these courses it hits high vram usage nearly immediately and even when it does work it takes hours just to finish one small video segment whereas others can do it with a 290X or 980 in 30 minutes tops.

[Guest Kloaked]

Unless someone on the inside happens to inform others of that amount...

Unless that person isn't actually on this forum.

[DarkIdeals]

Poor gigabyte , out of all GPU manufacturers 

As i mentioned before to others, gigabyte is not being singled out, they are simply the first one to be put on the list at this time since the only company that can be listed is the one the plaintiff purchased from. Once other people come forward that bought asus, evga, etc.. cards they will be able to be named plaintiff against those companies as well. (of course i dont know exactly what the plan is in detail)

[DarkIdeals]

Unless that person isn't actually on this forum.

Except he is......HI?

[Guest Kloaked]

Except he is......HI?

Forgive me, but this is the internet and anyone can pretend to be anyone.

[Shahnewaz]