The Fappening

[Smooth Bunz]

How did this get into a heated battle about rape? like da fuq

[eLucid]

How did this get into a heated battle about rape? like da fuq

You must be new here.

 

Welcome to the off-topic sub forum.

[Smooth Bunz]

You must be new here.

 

Welcome to the off-topic sub forum.

yea this was my first post here i think

[cae]

The problem with shouting "victim blame" is that you remove all responsibility from the victim. In this scenario they made a very bad decision to upload those photos.

 

Without criminal aggression taking place, there would have been no victim. A level of security is the natural state of cloud storage, and without criminals, that storage would have remained secure. Had they mistakenly uploaded the photos to Facebook, certainly they'd have some blame in their spread on the internet. However, that isn't what happened. How ridiculous must this hindsight be taken? "In a car accident? Well, that's what you get for driving around. Mugged while jogging? Well, that's what you get for exercising." Should have known better. That's not how things work. "Your kid got molested at school? That's what you get for dropping them off."

[Mooshi]

How did this get into a heated battle about rape? like da fuq

 

Because people like to spin issues and derail it, crying "rape culture" being one of the more pitiful ones. A story about celebs trusting their nudes to cloud storage getting turned into rape is sad beyond words and offensive to every single victim of rape, guests reading and members who had traumatic experiences. Completely shameless.

[Fred Castellum]

I'm legitimately surprised this thread is still alive. 

 

Not so surprised it's gotten derailed though. Ehh shit happens I guess. 

 

 

No were talking about rape culture eh? 

[Smooth Bunz]

I'm legitimately surprised this thread is still alive. 

 

Not so surprised it's gotten derailed though. Ehh shit happens I guess. 

 

 

 

No were talking about rape culture eh? 

Yesterday it had 4k views now its amost a 6k Im shocked i honestly didnt think this would be this popular

[Yoinkerman]

OK, lets start.  Yes my initial post could be considered trolling.  However, it wasn't wrong either, and lets dive into why. 

 

Firstly, Rape Culture is very alive and well in the USA, and Canada, and many other less savory places like most of africa, asia, and even europe.  Maybe in Sweden it's different, I don't know, I haven't been there.  My statement was about the posters in this thread perpetuating said culture.  Not that enjoying someone's naked photos is inherently wrong, though the means in which they were acquired certainly are.

 

Here we go, this is post 9, we were actually doing quite well until then.  This serves two purposes, the first being that it's victim blaming, quite clearly, and the second, being a little more subtle, is shaming women for having women parts, and deciding to take pictures.  The reason this perpetuates is because nudity isn't a four letter word, nor is it ever something to feel shameful about, in any context.  They don't deserve to be lambasted for taking nudie pics.

 

 

Well it's more the fault of the celebs, obviously they showed their lady parts in front of a camera.

 

The second page actually looks pretty good, with only minor victim blaming of saying they should have been more careful, pushing more blame onto them for having something stored in locked(protected accounts) containers that were broken into.  There's a really easy parallel to draw with someone's house or car being broken into and things being stolen.  I could have huge naked pictures of myself all over my house and whatever places I frequent that are privately owned, and it's still not ok to break in and take them.  Even if they're at my place of work or at starbucks, they're not some random third partys to take.  A lock on a door is probably less secure than the Apple servers were.  If someone wants to get into your house or car, a deadbolt or a pathetic car lock isn't going to stop them.  We, as a society, just seem to find that breaking into a car is worse than hacking an account.  Which is weird.

 

Third page, about the same, with a nice picture of Anand.

 

Fourth page, more of the same victim blaming, I'm starting to see a trend.

 

Page five is pretty good, good job page five posters!

 

Page six has a somewhat interesting tweet, in that it's misleading the audience with an attempt at humour, however, if we look a little closer, the shaming comes out.  It's implying that taking nude pics or whatever you want to call them is a bad thing by playing up the "one of these things is not like the others" punchline where you list the off part at the end in a humour twist, which is good in that it's not directly perpetuating, but bad in that it's more hidden and insidious, because who can dislike it if it's funny, right?

 

Page seven, again not bad, thumbs up.

 

Page eight sinks some with a bunch of objectification, which does a nice job of dehumanizing, which in turn makes it easier to say such horrible things.  And apparently people agree, because they're joining right in.

 

And page 9 is where I started to throw out the bait, but then take a step back and genuinely discuss things, because a lot of the thread, to many many people's credit, is good, and doesn't involve perpetuating rape culture.  Then people try to set up a straw man argument by making my points about something that they aren't, in order to troll.  I know what trolling is when I see it, I've been doing it since a lot of you guys were in diapers

 

Also, I get called a feminazi, which to be honest, is a first.  I've been called many, many, things over the years, and feminazi definitely isn't one of them.  I'm an insensitive, apathetic asshole.

 

Then there's some confusion because people are buying the trollbait straw man.

 

My first post was about the perpetuation of rape culture which this thread has seen a lot of in the posts by various users.  Nowhere is it even comparing the picture hacking to anything, let alone comparing theft to rape.

 

I like nudie pics as much as the next pervert, it's the way some of the people are acting in the thread, and to a lesser extent then criminal activities of the people who hacking into private servers and copied the pictures.

 

EDIT:  I forgot to add that victim blaming is also shaming them, because if you can shame someone, shame being a very powerful emotion, it can influence how they behave, namely making them shut down and accept whatever situation they're in, making the situation seem like it's acceptable when it shouldn't be.

 

[Lays]

Naked pictures of people getting released and spread across the internet without their consent? Yeah, that's kinda horrible.

 

 

Shouldn't of ever taken / sent those pictures if they weren't prepared for crap like this to happen.

 

The whole "woe is me" crap is retarded.  

 

90% of these actresses will probably be in nude scenes in movies within 5 years anyways, I don't see the big deal.

[thesneakpeek]

link or didnt happen

What it didn't happen? http://www.linkbabes.com/ACD5W A link to an online compilation. Or try this one for photos and videos: http://www.picbucks.com/ACD6X

 

These are the consequence of people's action. Them and the hacker's are to blame. Taking a picture of myself is already awkward, saving one is much more. We all know the risks of technology nowadays, they took that risk and got their pictures leaked. Moral of the story is not to take naked pictures of yourself.

[shiftberry]

they are dumping more nudes now!

[WolfDeville]

Bottom line. They were stupid enough to take the pictures in the first place and then they uploaded them to a Cloud? LOL.

[LAwLz]

Without criminal aggression taking place, there would have been no victim. A level of security is the natural state of cloud storage, and without criminals, that storage would have remained secure. Had they mistakenly uploaded the photos to Facebook, certainly they'd have some blame in their spread on the internet. However, that isn't what happened. How ridiculous must this hindsight be taken? "In a car accident? Well, that's what you get for driving around. Mugged while jogging? Well, that's what you get for exercising." Should have known better. That's not how things work. "Your kid got molested at school? That's what you get for dropping them off."

Okay let me ask you this. Do you put any blame on the gun instructor for letting the 9 year old girl use a full automatic gun?

When you do stupid things (like giving a gun to a 9 year old, or upload nude photos of yourself to the Internet) then you are partially to blame. The level of "this is a really bad idea" determines how much of the blame is on you.

If someone drunk got into the car and drove off the road I would put quite a lot of the blame on the drunk driver. Call that "victim blaming" if you want, but it was his or her fault.

Uploading nude images of yourself online, and dropping your children of at school are nowhere near each other on the "this is a really bad idea" scale.

 

 

What it didn't happen? <link> A link to an online compilation. Or try this one for photos and videos: <link>

I recommend you remove those links. It's against the CoC to link to porn.

[shiftberry]

Bottom line. They were stupid enough to take the pictures in the first place and then they uploaded them to a Cloud? LOL.

Kate Upton's lunatic boyfriend uploaded them on Dropbox, what can you say? :lol:

[LAwLz]

Something funny I just read regarding this. McKayla's lawyer have said that the photos of her were taken when she was only 17 years old, so therefore they are classified as child pornography.

This argument is used to defend McKayla and get her pictures removed from the Internet. However, what nobody seems to point out is that if the lawyer is correct, then McKayla is guilty of producing child pornography and should become a registered sex offender.

Kind of a bad situation to be in right? Either the images are not of her (possibly a look-a-like?) and she has no right to take them down (look-a-like porn is not illegal as far as I know), or she has produced child pornography.

[Mooshi]

I feel sorry for Moot more than anyone else since he has to not only play damage control but also have to deal with legal problems because neckbeards won't put their dicks down for 2 seconds to let this issue die down.

[Vitalius]

-snip-

Thanks for the summary since I skipped that whole schtick. I just wanted to respond to some things because I feel like the way you define "perpetuating rape culture" is so broad that over 50% of human interaction on the Internet probably fits doing that. 

So, you are basically saying that objectification & victim blaming (and shaming) are perpetuating rape culture. I feel like those two things aren't exclusively tied to rape culture, although they are major components of it. 

But regardless, I suppose my question is "Is this victim blaming?", because I personally don't think it is, and the reason why is because this isn't a perfect world. I think this confusion comes from the fact that each person's definition for where someone stops being a victim and becomes responsible for what happens to them based on their decisions is different. I don't believe you can just exclusively say, "Well, someone did something immoral (in this case, hacked a person's personal files on the internet), and so the affected person is a victim." in the sense that victim means no responsibility for what happened when common logical decisions could've been made to significantly reduce the chances of it happening were possible but not made. 

On one hand, people will say it's not these celebrities faults because the only sure-fire way to prevent this is to simply not take these kinds of pictures and we can't expect them to just not do that (I disagree with that, but we're ignoring that since I'm not most people). On the other, that's not really true. Having pictures of this sort anywhere that's not on the Internet raises the requirements of what it'd take to get them to a point where "It's not likely." I'm not saying hacking into Apple's iCloud (Dropbox) is easy, but it is on the internet, which means it's available to the entire world to try. Odds are someone will succeed, and that's the key. It being on a personal external HDD or computer would make it far less likely to occur.

My point is, there's a point where people stop being victims and become somewhat responsible themselves through negligent behavior. And I personally define that as what has happened here. Either a lack of understanding or caring about what being on Dropbox really means for these files. Yes, this was a targeted attack, which means there wasn't a place on the Internet which was safe for these things, but I don't think it's just a matter of judging what they do as what everyone else does. They are celebrities. I'm sure they take precautions against stalkers via personal security or anything similar. I don't see why this should be different, unless, as I said, they just didn't understand, or didn't care. Neither of which I find acceptable personally for not taking action to prevent this type of thing.

It's simply when people don't even try to lower their odds of being a victim when it's not hard to do and the knowledge to do so is pretty common (or should be) by now that they stop being a victim and become responsible for the things that happen to them, imo. 

Now, if you disagree with that, alright, but that's the way I view it. The reason I think the knowledge of such things should be common is simple. It's in the NEWS. Time after time, "[corporate network] has been breached. Credit Cards/personal data stolen." Plenty big enough that it's unreasonable not to realize that Internet =/= secure for private personal things. Cloud has been a big buzz word long enough that it should be understood what it means. "On the internet, somewhere." which is enough to know that anyone can access it. That, plus "it's not secure" should prevent anyone from backing up these types of pictures to iCloud.

Of course they could've used the service before they knew this, then deleted the content (even though Apple doesn't off their servers), but many of the photos seem pretty recent based on how people are reacting. I feel few of these celebrities fall into that category. That would have to go on a case-by-case basis but that's getting into the specifics and I think it's somewhat irrelevant for the majority.

I hope I was clear. Not trying to start a fight or anything, but I just feel it's just as unreasonable to say they have no responsibility for this as it is to blame a victim who really is the victim for what happened. 

[LAwLz]

OK, lets start.  Yes my initial post could be considered trolling.  However, it wasn't wrong either, and lets dive into why. 

 

Firstly, Rape Culture is very alive and well in the USA, and Canada, and many other less savory places like most of africa, asia, and even europe.  Maybe in Sweden it's different, I don't know, I haven't been there.  My statement was about the posters in this thread perpetuating said culture.  Not that enjoying someone's naked photos is inherently wrong, though the means in which they were acquired certainly are.

I strongly disagree. Again, here is a definition of rape culture: "The Rape Culture is best defined as a culture in which rape is prevalent and pervasive and is sanctioned and maintained through fundamental attitudes and beliefs about gender, sexuality, and violence."

I don't think that is true for North America or Europe. Before you start posting "1 in 5 women are raped!" I would like you to watch this video from the American Enterprise Institute, presented by  Christina Hoff Sommers. The paper I posted earlier in the thread also explains why those numbers are exaggerated.

Rape is far too serious of a matter to trivialize in the way you're doing right now.

 

Here we go, this is post 9, we were actually doing quite well until then.  This serves two purposes, the first being that it's victim blaming, quite clearly, and the second, being a little more subtle, is shaming women for having women parts, and deciding to take pictures.  The reason this perpetuates is because nudity isn't a four letter word, nor is it ever something to feel shameful about, in any context.  They don't deserve to be lambasted for taking nudie pics.

You mean this post by Tro?

Sorry, but I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that he is blaming a woman for having "women parts". I don't agree with his post but I don't see how it's supporting rape culture. He is putting some of the blame on the celebrities for taking the photos to begin with, not saying that they should be raped for it.

There is a huge difference between this, and supporting rape.

Again, nude photos, and rape are two completely different things.

 

 

 

The second page actually looks pretty good, with only minor victim blaming of saying they should have been more careful, pushing more blame onto them for having something stored in locked(protected accounts) containers that were broken into.  There's a really easy parallel to draw with someone's house or car being broken into and things being stolen.  I could have huge naked pictures of myself all over my house and whatever places I frequent that are privately owned, and it's still not ok to break in and take them.  Even if they're at my place of work or at starbucks, they're not some random third partys to take. A lock on a door is probably less secure than the Apple servers were.  If someone wants to get into your house or car, a deadbolt or a pathetic car lock isn't going to stop them.  We, as a society, just seem to find that breaking into a car is worse than hacking an account.  Which is weird.

No it's not a parallel to draw with having something in your own house. Your own house would be your cellphone. Uploading it to iCloud would b elike making thousands of copies and then storing them in a random storage house somewhere.

We've already gone over this analogy before...

You're forgetting one crucial part in the story. The video tapes and the robbery was not in their own home. After having recorded the videos they made thousands of copies and stored them in a storage house somewhere. That storage house was then robbed and the videos were spread around.

In that scenario then yes, I would have recommended against making all the copies and storing them somewhere where they don't have direct control over them.

Call it victim blaming if you want, but people do have some responsibility. Just like the gun instructor who gave the 9 year old girl a full auto gun shares some of the blame, the celebs also has some responsibility which they completely ignored.

Here is another analogy. Going to Syria is a pretty bad idea right now. If I told you "hey I am going to go to Syria to hang out with ISIS" you would probably tell me "that's a really bad idea". If I decided to go there anyway, and ended up as a hostage you have to admit that even though I am a victim, a big part of it is my fault. I decided to go there even though I had no reason to do so. If I was a reporter then it would be one thing, but if I am just a tourist then there are thousands of safe places I could go to instead.

Just because you are a victim doesn't mean you are infallible.

 

 

Page six has a somewhat interesting tweet, in that it's misleading the audience with an attempt at humour, however, if we look a little closer, the shaming comes out.  It's implying that taking nude pics or whatever you want to call them is a bad thing by playing up the "one of these things is not like the others" punchline where you list the off part at the end in a humour twist, which is good in that it's not directly perpetuating, but bad in that it's more hidden and insidious, because who can dislike it if it's funny, right?

What's so wrong about joking about it? I guessc Beca Tobin, who made a joke about her pictures, is also supporting rape and rape culture then? Making a joke about nude photos, and supporting rape culture are two completely different things.

It seems like you and I have very different definitions of rape and rape culture. "The Fappening" is completely unrelated to rape. If someone was actually being raped in a picture and then people were joking about it then I would be on your side. These are pictures the celebs took themselves, willingly, and uploaded to the Internet. There is a huge leap between that and rape.

 

 

Page eight sinks some with a bunch of objectification, which does a nice job of dehumanizing, which in turn makes it easier to say such horrible things.  And apparently people agree, because they're joining right in.

Where is the objectification in page 8? You mean the people who were talking about their preferences of boob size?

There is a big difference between commenting on someone's body part, and actually objectifying them. I am not objectifying myself when I say "I am a bit on the skinny side", nor am I objectifying some girl when I say "her boobs are a bit too big for my taste".

I am merely describing one aspect of a person. Objectification is real (both men and women are objectified all the time), but describing your sexual preferences is not objectification. Moreover, I don't think objectification is bad.

Let's take the nude celeb photos for example. Do you think they took them thinking "I will show my boyfriend what a great personality I got" or do you think they thought "I am going to show him what a nice body I got"? Objectification is not bad as long as it's consensual and used for very specific purposes. For example telling a strong man to lift a cough up 3 stairs could be thought of as objectification, but is there really any harm in that? I mean, you're not going "oh those poor delivery guys, I'll ask them to not carry all my stuff up the stairs" when your shiny new piano arrives, right? You're thinking "good thing I don't have to carry that myself. The delivery people will do it for me because that's what I am paying them for".

 

 

 

My first post was about the perpetuation of rape culture which this thread has seen a lot of in the posts by various users.  Nowhere is it even comparing the picture hacking to anything, let alone comparing theft to rape.

You kind of are though. Rape culture is, as the name suggests, about rape. Rape culture is not about victim blaming or objectification. They are parts of what makes up rape culture, but saying that those things alone support rape culture is like saying oxygen and carbon makes a human. It's only two ingredients in a much bigger thing.

 

Oxygen and carbon does not make a human.

Victim blaming and objectification does not make rape culture.

[jezza39]

- snip -

 

+1

 

On the topic of victim blaming, if someone walks through the most crime riddled part of your city, alone and at night, flashing wads of cash and wearing bling, at night, what do you say when they're mugged? You tell them they're an idiot, the mugger was in the wrong, but the victim could have done so much to reduce the risks that I'd say they were equally culpable. 

 

I don't think what the celebrities did was as stupid, you should expect a degree of privacy, but we have known for ages now that phones are not safe (News of the World scandal anyone?), and keeping them there or on the cloud was very very dumb on their behalves. 

[Yoinkerman]

Yes. Your 50% of things on the Internet does perpetuate rape culture, it is that pervasive in North American society. It sounds unbelievable, but it's true.

There are a couple of things I disagree with on your assessment on victim blaming. The first is that "well its on the Internet it's only a matter of time". It's true. Anything that exists anywhere can be subject to unauthorized access. I'm not disagreeing on that part. It's a no brained. However I disagree in that it's something we should just expect. I see it as no different than physically breaking into someone's home or business.

Let's say I'm Starbucks, and I make a new coffee maker that is the best coffee maker ever made. Let's say I keep the design at my office, and then keep the design at every one of my franchises. It's not any more OK for McDonald's to break in and take it from one of the franchises than it is to take it from my office. Every franchise and every office is locked and protected, probably less than online storage. I don't see it as more ok to break in because it's online and not physical.

This brings us to the second point, that these pictures could never have been stolen if they were never taken. Which is true, but wrong at the same time, and here's why. Taking pictures of oneself isn't inherently wrong. There's nothing wrong with a girl taking nude pics. Or pics with 500 dicks, or anything in between. Because a reasonable person can say taking nudie pics is not only commonplace but is neutral in the grand scheme of the world, it should be as protected as say, the couches in your living room. Someone can break in and take them at any time, and the only way to prevent it is to not have any couches, but expecting people to not have couches isn't a reasonable expectation. The same with pictures taken on someones phone(regardless of what the picture is). It isn't a reasonable expectation that people don't take phone pictures of upload them to online storage.

Lawls I feel like you're still trying real hard to straw man me. Rape culture is alive and well in North America. I live in the most dangerous place in Canada (as of last year I don't know how it is for 2014). People get stabbed and natives are marginalized all the time. I personally know many women that have been brutalized and raped, and it's not a joke or being trivialized. Remember, rape is non consensual sex. It is not only the violent crime portion. It's more nuanced than that. It doesn't even have to be violent. Rape culture is why women don't walk around alone, it is why women are catcalled on the street and no one bats an eye(objectification) . Rape culture is why the high school football star's life is tarnished, and the girl is a good for nothing tramp trying to ruin his life(victim blaming) . Rape culture is why my wife crosses over behind me when we walk by people on the street, so I can be in between her and whomever is walking by. It is why iggy azalea(sp?) has to wear three layers of pants if she wants to crowd surf at her own concert. It's why people say "well she shouldn't have been drinking at that college party, she knew what can happen" while you or I can drink like fish and pass out in an alley and nothing happens. It's why people don't see anything wrong with the previous scenario. It's why women aren't on message boards like this site without having to out up with things that should never be said to anyone, let alone specifically targeted at women on the Internet.

If no one victim blamed, or shamed women for being women, or unduly objectified women, or treated them any different than anyone else(and a few other things) we wouldn't have rape culture. Nowhere have I said victim blaming and objectification of women are the sole supporters of rape culture, because that's folly. However, to dismantle the culture(which is very alive and well, you may not have seen much being a young swede, but I can assure you its been very prevalent throughout Canada and the USA(especially the rural and poor inner city parts) , which I've traveled through a few times) we need to dismantle the sources. Two of which are very prevalent here.

Victim blaming and objectification don't make rape culture, you're right. They enable it to survive. To continue. To stop people from speaking up when they should. This is the point I was making.

Also, tldr; if you tell the victim they shouldn't have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming.

Snip

[Norman_the_Owl]

Yes. Your 50% of things on the Internet does perpetuate rape culture, it is that pervasive in North American society. It sounds unbelievable, but it's true.

There are a couple of things I disagree with on your assessment on victim blaming. The first is that "well its on the Internet it's only a matter of time". It's true. Anything that exists anywhere can be subject to unauthorized access. I'm not disagreeing on that part. It's a no brained. However I disagree in that it's something we should just expect. I see it as no different than physically breaking into someone's home or business.

Let's say I'm Starbucks, and I make a new coffee maker that is the best coffee maker ever made. Let's say I keep the design at my office, and then keep the design at every one of my franchises. It's not any more OK for McDonald's to break in and take it from one of the franchises than it is to take it from my office. Every franchise and every office is locked and protected, probably less than online storage. I don't see it as more ok to break in because it's online and not physical.

This brings us to the second point, that these pictures could never have been stolen if they were never taken. Which is true, but wrong at the same time, and here's why. Taking pictures of oneself isn't inherently wrong. There's nothing wrong with a girl taking nude pics. Or pics with 500 dicks, or anything in between. Because a reasonable person can say taking nudie pics is not only commonplace but is neutral in the grand scheme of the world, it should be as protected as say, the couches in your living room. Someone can break in and take them at any time, and the only way to prevent it is to not have any couches, but expecting people to not have couches isn't a reasonable expectation. The same with pictures taken on someones phone(regardless of what the picture is). It isn't a reasonable expectation that people don't take phone pictures of upload them to online storage.

Lawls I feel like you're still trying real hard to straw man me. Rape culture is alive and well in North America. I live in the most dangerous place in Canada (as of last year I don't know how it is for 2014). People get stabbed and natives are marginalized all the time. I personally know many women that have been brutalized and raped, and it's not a joke or being trivialized. Remember, rape is non consensual sex. It is not only the violent crime portion. It's more nuanced than that. It doesn't even have to be violent. Rape culture is why women don't walk around alone, it is why women are catcalled on the street and no one bats an eye(objectification) . Rape culture is why the high school football star's life is tarnished, and the girl is a good for nothing tramp trying to ruin his life(victim blaming) . Rape culture is why my wife crosses over behind me when we walk by people on the street, so I can be in between her and whomever is walking by. It is why iggy azalea(sp?) has to wear three layers of pants if she wants to crowd surf at her own concert. It's why people say "well she shouldn't have been drinking at that college party, she knew what can happen" while you or I can drink like fish and pass out in an alley and nothing happens. It's why people don't see anything wrong with the previous scenario. It's why women aren't on message boards like this site without having to out up with things that should never be said to anyone, let alone specifically targeted at women on the Internet.

If no one victim blamed, or shamed women for being women, or unduly objectified women, or treated them any different than anyone else(and a few other things) we wouldn't have rape culture. Nowhere have I said victim blaming and objectification of women are the sole supporters of rape culture, because that's folly. However, to dismantle the culture(which is very alive and well, you may not have seen much being a young swede, but I can assure you its been very prevalent throughout Canada and the USA(especially the rural and poor inner city parts) , which I've traveled through a few times) we need to dismantle the sources. Two of which are very prevalent here.

Victim blaming and objectification don't make rape culture, you're right. They enable it to survive. To continue. To stop people from speaking up when they should. This is the point I was making.

Also, tldr; if you tell the victim they shouldn't have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming.

 

Unless i'm misreading this you're still saying owning a couch is comparable to rape?

 

 

I don't understand you

[Yoinkerman]

You're misreading it.

[Smooth Bunz]

I need some popcorn for this

[cae]

In this case, the celebs are victims of a crime - theft. In order for them to be blamed, they must have taken some part in the theft. That did not happen. They uploaded photos that they did not want to share to a private server. People do this all the time, with all kinds of photos/data. Owning personal property that someone else desires is not a crime. The personal property stolen does not change the fact that they were stolen from.

[Vitalius]

-snip-

 

Well, I didn't mean "it's only a matter of time" for everyone. I meant it for celebrities. That's a literal target painted on you data. People want it, for obvious reasons. Extra precautions need to be taken for such reasons. And I didn't mean "We should just expect it", I mean "Celebrities should expect to be targeted". That's why I said it is based on the situation. How famous you are directly correlates with the odds of you getting targeted online. That's just how fame works. I'm pretty sure famous people have security systems & personnel in their houses & businesses. I don't see why we'd treat the internet differently. 

You might say, "Well, that's what Apple's job is." but that's part of the problem. These companies have shown they can't be trusted. Time and time again. At that point, you have to take it into your own hands, and it's not that hard to do. Just don't put it on the internet. Back it up to your computer. These are celebrities, if they are technically inept then pay someone to do it. Sure that has potential as a security breach, but it's better than the iCloud.

I never said it was ok to do this to them. See, I think that's part of the confusion too. Saying the celebrities are responsible for what has happened through negligence doesn't mean the hackers aren't also responsible. Neither are blameless. If you left your Starbucks unlocked by accident and I stole the design, I'd be a thief, but you'd understand that you were partially to blame too as you didn't lock the door. You wouldn't get prosecuted or anything, but most people would hold themselves to blame to an extent for screwing up in such a way as to enable another's failings. 

I didn't want to get into the objective morality of taking nude pics because I figure we'd disagree regardless. This is why I mentioned ignoring it in my assessment, as you call it.

 

If you tell the victim they shouldn't have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming.

 

Let's do a side by side comparison because I feel like you didn't write that as you meant to.

"If you tell the victim they shouldn't have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming."

"If you tell the celebrities they shouldn't have kept their files off the internet in order to prevent them from being stolen & publicized, it's victim blaming."

I don't agree. I feel like this is what you meant to write, another side by side comparison:

"If you tell the victim they shouldn't have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming."

"If you tell the victim they should have done the completely reasonable thing they did in order to stop the illegal thing from happening, it's victim blaming."

Which turns the example I put into:

"If you tell the celebrities they should have kept their files off the internet in order to prevent them from being stolen & publicized, it's victim blaming."

Which, again, I disagree. If it's completely reasonable, then they should've done it. They deserve that portion of the blame. It takes two failings to make stuff like this happen. The victim to enable & the offender to act. People can disagree with me, but that's how I view it.

I expect humans to be competent.

 

In this case, the celebs are victims of a crime - theft. In order for them to be blamed, they must have taken some part in the theft. That did not happen. They uploaded photos that they did not want to share to a private server. People do this all the time, with all kinds of photos/data. Owning personal property that someone else desires is not a crime. The personal property stolen does not change the fact that they were stolen from.

That's in a black & white perfect world. This is not that, so I disagree.