Why some cables cost so much - The Adam Savage video.

[Distinctly Average]

It is just amazing to see CT scans of a $130 Apple cable vs cheap ones. We all know that not all cables are made equal and USB-C is a wired one in that they don’t have to support all of the features. Seeing the inside of a cable this way really shows the differences. I’ve always been very dismissive of over priced HDMI cables, but cables that carry data ah such rates as well as high power are a different matter. This was especially true when a cheap USC-C cable set light to my daughters desk last year.

 

You can view the scans here - https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics

 

[saintlouisbagels]

Arstechnica wrote about this last week as well.

My only problem is that they really didn't do a fair comparison - they should've included CalDigit's 1-meter and 2-meter TB3/4 cables for us to better appreciate what it took to go beyond 2 meters.

[Poinkachu]

27 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

It is just amazing to see CT scans of a $130 Apple cable vs cheap ones. We all know that not all cables are made equal and USB-C is a wired one in that they don’t have to support all of the features. Seeing the inside of a cable this way really shows the differences. I’ve always been very dismissive of over priced HDMI cables, but cables that carry data ah such rates as well as high power are a different matter. This was especially true when a cheap USC-C cable set light to my daughters desk last year.

 

You can view the scans here - https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics

 

My question is ....

Why bother comparing a thunderbolt (Thunderbolt 4 at that) cable with a non thunderbolt cable :x

[DrMacintosh]

Thunderbolt is well, Thunderbolt. This baby can fit like, idk, 4 PCIe lanes in it. What can USB do? Some data and some power....maybe.

 

Not a fair comparison, but interesting none the less.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

13 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

What can USB do? Some data and some power....maybe.

tbf, usb-c pd isnt just "some power", its like 240 watts over a usb c cable. 

[Distinctly Average]

9 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Witch said:

tbf, usb-c pd isnt just "some power", its like 240 watts over a usb c cable. 

Agreed, and why the small fire we had happened.

[Distinctly Average]

38 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

My question is ....

Why bother comparing a thunderbolt (Thunderbolt 4 at that) cable with a non thunderbolt cable :x

Thunderbolt is a feature set that can be included in a USB-C cable.  The video and scans show that not all cables are made equal. It also shows how even the assembly methods vary substantially.

[saintlouisbagels]

3 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Thunderbolt is a feature set that can be included in a USB-C cable.  The video and scans show that not all cables are made equal. It also shows how even the assembly methods vary substantially.

But it poorly does a comparison.

You don't need X-rays to tell me that a TB3/4 cable is different from a 10gbps USB-3 cable is different from a USB-C 2.0 cable.

 

The X-rays would've been awesome to compare a 2-meter TB4 cable against a 3-meter TB4 cable, or a crappy 10gbps USB3 cable against a premium 10gbps USB3 cable.

 

It's like seeing a counterfeit Rolex compared to a genuine one. But the article decides to compare a Timex to a genuine Rolex instead.

[Poinkachu]

1 hour ago, Distinctly Average said:

Thunderbolt is a feature set that can be included in a USB-C cable.  The video and scans show that not all cables are made equal. It also shows how even the assembly methods vary substantially.

There's a certification for Thunderbolt.

Basically there's a minimum standard that has to be met for each Thunderbolt version.

 

So comparing a Thunderbolt 4 certified cable to a non thunderbolt $13 480mbps cable is kinda....... pointless. Since the latter is pretty much just USB2.0 cable with a type-C connector on one/both of it's end(s).

That's probably like comparing the innards of a smartphone with old fliptop nokia.

or for simpler comparison, a Cat 5 cable with Cat 8 cable.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-4-vs-usb-c.html

https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/tech/certification

One notable difference is wire gauge for sure. Even my Orico $10 100w / 10gbps type-c is way thicker than my $2 480mbps/under 40w Type-C.

 

Not to mention knowing Apple I wouldn't be surprised if they added an authentication chip into their cable just to make iphones/apple product know it's an apple cable.

 

Not saying that all cables that claimed they're thunderbolt 4 cable out there are the same.

There are shit TB4 cables, there are fake TB4 cables. There is brands that dares to claim they're certified while they aren't.

For a company as big as Apple it is very unlikely they'll lie about theirs. The world would totally roast them for it.

Just saying the X-ray machine & time should've been put to a better use, like Comparing Apple's TB4 cable to other TB4 cables.

Or simply comparing 480mbps/5/10/20/40Gbps Type-C with/without above 20w charging capability with one another.

[TetraSky]

Did he just say there's "two power supplies" in the cable at 1:36 ? The fuck does he mean there's two power supply... Is he pointing at the capacitors?
Like what was already said. They are comparing a thunderbolt cable to regular usb-c cables... Not at all the same thing.

The fact the "entry level" iPhone 15 only supports up to USB 2.0 speeds anyway, makes this cable entirely redundant in the first place for most users.

[Thaldor]

So, they compared 2m active Thunderbolt cable to 1 extra cheap passive USB2 cable, 1 a bit more expensive USB2 charging cable and 1 passive USB3 cable.

Is this some ad for poor people to feel better for their spent money?

 

Like come on! If you want to make cable ad at least bring the real deals to the table and not some puny 2m copper piece of junk that is hardly any better than the Amazon Basic piece of junk.

If you want to impress someone and not look like some normal mortal pleb with a bit more expensive Apple cable, at least bring something like the Corning Thunderbolt3 cable to the comparison: 5-50m optical that you can pull through AC electromagnet without your data even noticing. And the price, $400 for 15m of data moving fibre-optic greatness.

 

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If you didn't see the sarcasm and humor, here's emote to show you how serious I am

 

[starsmine]

26 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Did he just say there's "two power supplies" in the cable at 1:36 ? The fuck does he mean there's two power supply... Is he pointing at the capacitors?

yes but no. 

the RLC circuits are there to regulate power. It is not incorrect to call them power supplies, just weird, they are the same as a creating a power rail to standardize against. You see the the two inductors there for that purpose. 



Those are two different power rails. 

[Distinctly Average]

1 hour ago, TetraSky said:

Did he just say there's "two power supplies" in the cable at 1:36 ? The fuck does he mean there's two power supply... Is he pointing at the capacitors?
Like what was already said. They are comparing a thunderbolt cable to regular usb-c cables... Not at all the same thing.

The fact the "entry level" iPhone 15 only supports up to USB 2.0 speeds anyway, makes this cable entirely redundant in the first place for most users.

Think of it like a pc power supply, you need different voltages for different parts of the device. In this case they are really dc-dc converters or regulators to take the voltage from the supply and turn it into the relevant voltages the chips require. In this case there appears to be two different voltages needed.

[Distinctly Average]

58 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

So, they compared 2m active Thunderbolt cable to 1 extra cheap passive USB2 cable, 1 a bit more expensive USB2 charging cable and 1 passive USB3 cable.

Is this some ad for poor people to feel better for their spent money?

 

Like come on! If you want to make cable ad at least bring the real deals to the table and not some puny 2m copper piece of junk that is hardly any better than the Amazon Basic piece of junk.

If you want to impress someone and not look like some normal mortal pleb with a bit more expensive Apple cable, at least bring something like the Corning Thunderbolt3 cable to the comparison: 5-50m optical that you can pull through AC electromagnet without your data even noticing. And the price, $400 for 15m of data moving fibre-optic greatness.

 

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If you didn't see the sarcasm and humor, here's emote to show you how serious I am

 

A few things here, this is not a review. This is just to give people an understanding of that is different in these types of cables and why the apple one costs so much. It is an interesting look at the different constructions in a way we would never normally see.

 

Ican also guarantee you that average joe does not know their arse from their elbow, let alone an active TB4 cable from a cheap charge lead. I’ve seen this numerous times. People charging laptops with the cheapest of cables and wondering why they don’t last long, overheat or don’t provide the functions they thought they should. I’ve also seen people using expensive cables for charging their phone in the car and nothing else. It is the norm, and a lot of the confusion bought about by the USB standard which is frankly a mess.

 

As an electronics geek myself, I found seeing the scans very interesting.

[BrandonLatzig]

so long story short
Apple cords are expensive because they are thunderbolt cables

[Doobeedoo]

Cool to see these shots. Didn't watch the vid but I do hope we see more USB4 in the wild.

[saintlouisbagels]

20 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

A few things here, this is not a review. This is just to give people an understanding of that is different in these types of cables and why the apple one costs so much. It is an interesting look at the different constructions in a way we would never normally see.

 

Ican also guarantee you that average joe does not know their arse from their elbow, let alone an active TB4 cable from a cheap charge lead. I’ve seen this numerous times. People charging laptops with the cheapest of cables and wondering why they don’t last long, overheat or don’t provide the functions they thought they should. I’ve also seen people using expensive cables for charging their phone in the car and nothing else. It is the norm, and a lot of the confusion bought about by the USB standard which is frankly a mess.

 

As an electronics geek myself, I found seeing the scans very interesting.

lol are you're intentionally misunderstanding the criticism?
 

The scans show why a Thunderbolt 4 cable is more expensive than a regular USB-C cable. You don't need x-ray scans to describe that. Quick Google searching would also tell the average Joe the same thing.

The x-ray scans fail to use this opportunity to demonstrate why a Apple's 3-meter Thunderbolt 4 cable costs $160 while a CalDigit 2-meter Thunderbolt 4 cable costs $65. It's an assumption that there's a lot more Engineering involved to go from 2-meters to 3-meters, but this article doesn't provide any information to add facts to the assumption.

 

In fact the article could've compared CalDigit's $65 2-meter cable to Apple's $129 1.8-meter cable!
Is there more Engineering involved for Apple's cable at this length, or is this another case of "we're Apple, we're going to charge more" ?

[Distinctly Average]

3 hours ago, saintlouisbagels said:

lol are you're intentionally misunderstanding the criticism?
 

The scans show why a Thunderbolt 4 cable is more expensive than a regular USB-C cable. You don't need x-ray scans to describe that. Quick Google searching would also tell the average Joe the same thing.

The x-ray scans fail to use this opportunity to demonstrate why a Apple's 3-meter Thunderbolt 4 cable costs $160 while a CalDigit 2-meter Thunderbolt 4 cable costs $65. It's an assumption that there's a lot more Engineering involved to go from 2-meters to 3-meters, but this article doesn't provide any information to add facts to the assumption.

 

In fact the article could've compared CalDigit's $65 2-meter cable to Apple's $129 1.8-meter cable!
Is there more Engineering involved for Apple's cable at this length, or is this another case of "we're Apple, we're going to charge more" ?

What you have to remember here is that Adam Savage is not a kit reviewer, he is a maker. You also have to under the history of the relationship with the company that did the CT scan. In this case they were use so some replica models could be made from very fragile original moulds. They are not LTT, but a company that did this because it is interesting. You seem to be obviously missing that.

 

[Dedayog]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:47 AM, Distinctly Average said:

It is just amazing to see CT scans of a $130 Apple cable vs cheap ones. We all know that not all cables are made equal and USB-C is a wired one in that they don’t have to support all of the features. Seeing the inside of a cable this way really shows the differences. I’ve always been very dismissive of over priced HDMI cables, but cables that carry data ah such rates as well as high power are a different matter. This was especially true when a cheap USC-C cable set light to my daughters desk last year.

 

You can view the scans here - https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics

 

Because people will convince themselves of things that don't exist to feed some need.

 

Read:  Self professed audiophiles.

[Distinctly Average]

3 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Because people will convince themselves of things that don't exist to feed some need.

 

Read:  Self professed audiophiles.

Oh we all know those lot. I remember going into a large audio retailer to buy an optical cable to connect one of my PlayStations to my home theatre amp. The salesman tried to convince me that I needed to special low oxygen version at £120 instead of the £20 one as it would drastically improve my audio. I left and bought one for £1.99 from the local supermarket.

 

Unfortunately, the Internet is filled with “experts” and I am convinced that through time people who believe their words spread them and eventually they become the “truth”. I suppose that is one of the risks of AI spreading its own truths.

 

I do think the story was an interest story, and not a review though. To me it is more showing the tech of a modern CT scan. Being able to see 9 layers of a PCB in such detail is quite astonishing.

[PJohn]

This is Apples' 1.8 meter (5 ft 10.8 inch) ThunderBolt 4 cable.  Intel specifies what it must go into the cable make it meet TB4 specifications and then it must pass an Intel certification test certifying it meets the standards.

 

Nothing I've seen here makes it better than the 6 foot 70 dollar TB4 certified cables from multiple other sellers at a much lower cost.

There is a lot of "oh gee look here," but no direct like for like comparison of a similar size TB4 certified cable.  Maybe that would have found some difference from the TB 4 standard.

 

The pictures of the internals are the only interesting part of this article.

[MarcWolfe]

"OMG, a signal repeater... wow, so much compute." Said nobody competent in the subject matter. Differential signals are nothing new, and require literally 0 compute, and equal trace length matters there. DATA is ALWAYS in bits; and the thunderbolt controller in the computer does the multiplexing, not the damn cable. Man, Displayport to VGA adapters would really blow their minds. "Let's compare a thunderbolt cable to a USB 2.0 type C cable"... "nobody's twisting their mustache to rob you"... I beg to differ; in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple had some round-about legally removed way of sponsoring this without disclosure, to make their shit look like it's 1000 years ahead of everything else. This is a far cry from the Mythbusters level testing I respected and enjoyed as a kid. 

 

It's like they all fucked off, smoked some epic pot, then looked at some rainbow pictures. That's how intelligent this was. I have experience with smoking pot daily for over a month... this is what that's like; incompetent jackassery.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD5aAd8Oy84

[BrandonLatzig]

You know Adam isn't completely knowledge about..everything right?
The man knows what he knows. I don't believe he ever said he was immensely knowledgable about computers

[imreloadin]

21 minutes ago, MarcWolfe said:

Le Snip

Jesus, you're acting like Adam fucked your wife. Chill out bruh.

[Arika]

24 minutes ago, MarcWolfe said:

I have experience with smoking pot daily for over a month.

sorry, the only people who say this are 13 year olds trying to be edgy on the internet.