Raspberry PI 5 Finally released

[darknessblade]

Summary

The highly anticipated Raspberry PI 5 is finally released

 

Quotes

Quote

Despite doubts that the Raspberry Pi 5 would launch this year, the latest version of the microcomputer has arrived with some notable upgrades at a $60 starting price. Not only is it supposed to perform better than its predecessor, but it’s also the first Raspberry Pi to come with in-house silicon.

 

My thoughts

Depending on how good the RPI5 would be for Homeassistant I might be getting one in a month or 2, combined with a NVME SSD.

The only downside is that the PCI-E port is only gen 2 X1. with a max speed of 500mb/s

So one would still need to use a USB NVME adapter for the FULL speed

 

Reviews

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/28/23889238/raspberry-pi-5-specs-availability-pricing

https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/

 

 

[SImoHayha]

oh great it'll be sold out in a jiffy and never restock again BIG SAD

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 minutes ago, Ramamataz said:

oh great it'll be sold out in a jiffy and never restock again BIG SAD

In my experience, the stock situation has improved massively. You can pick up pi4s ez pz nowadays.

 

 

[Levent]

5v 5A charger required, finding 3A charger was hard enough. Boo.

 

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

The only downside is that the PCI-E port is only gen 2 X1. with a max speed of 500mb/s

So one would still need to use a USB NVME adapter for the FULL speed

USB is 5Gbit, so no faster... but you can switch the PCIe interface to gen3.

 

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

Depending on how good the RPI5 would be for Homeassistant

The 4 is already more than enough for that.

[Bananasplit_00]

Why doesn't it have USB PD???? 5v 5A? Does anyone even sell that?..

[Needfuldoer]

Why use this for a static installation when it's slower and more expensive than a used USFF PC? Robotics, digital signage, and embedded computing applications are one thing, but let's face it: I bet the vast majority of Raspberry Pis that hit retail channels end up as RetroPi HTPC boxes stuck to the back of TVs.

 

Yes, yes, I know, power consumption, but modern USFF x86 PCs idle at around 10 watts. It's splitting hairs. If you're that worried about power consumption, get a used laptop with a busted screen instead of a desktop. You'll have slightly lower power consumption and a built-in UPS!

 

https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/

  

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

In my experience, the stock situation has improved massively. You can pick up pi4s ez pz nowadays.

The Raspberry Pi 4 came out 4 years ago, I'd certainly hope they're easy to find at this point!

 

1 hour ago, Levent said:

5v 5A charger required, finding 3A charger was hard enough. Boo.

According to the FAQ, the Pi 4 case won't fit either. Maybe that's just because the Pi 5 case has active cooling or an extra slot for the PCIe ribbon connector, but it's just another accessory you have to buy to make this "$80" computer fully functional.

 

It may seem like I'm down on the Raspberry Pi, but honestly I'm kind of just... over the hype. They haven't been "cheap computers for STEM education" for a long time. Now they're just moderately priced single-board computers, and there are plenty of other options for many of their trendy applications.

 

10 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Why doesn't it have USB PD???? 5v 5A? Does anyone even sell that?..

The Raspberry Pi vendors will. How convenient! (For them.)

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

1 hour ago, Levent said:

5v 5A charger required, finding 3A charger was hard enough. Boo.

The added power requirement is for the peripherals apparently. The board by itself apparently run at 6W under load.

I dislike the Raspberry Pi 4 because of the added cooling requirement, with a first party cooler for 5$ the Pi5 is a strictly better version of the Pi 4 for 10$ extra.

[Levent]

2 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

The added power requirement is for the peripherals apparently. The board by itself apparently run at 6W under load.

I dislike the Raspberry Pi 4 because of the added cooling requirement, with a first party cooler for 5$ the Pi5 is a strictly better version of the Pi 4 for 10$ extra.

Sure but at this cost, it would have been nice to have USBPD because it would be much easier and cheaper to power for end user.

[Franck]

2 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Depending on how good the RPI5 would be for Homeassistant I might be getting one in a month or 2

If you want to know there is a much cheaper option. I bought a bundle of ESP32 boards that comes down to about 9$ a piece and added a small photo sensor and thermo sensor and it connect to the wifi to my webserver to update the status of the read out. It can open light circuit and can know where to turn on heat. If you want to go nuts you can get a DHT22 for 9$ that give more than just temp but that's overkill for controlling basic lights, music, temp. All in all it's around 20$ per unit counting a 50 cents 3d printed case that fit to existing thermostat box.

[darknessblade]

10 minutes ago, Franck said:

If you want to know there is a much cheaper option. I bought a bundle of ESP32 boards that comes down to about 9$ a piece and added a small photo sensor and thermo sensor and it connect to the wifi to my webserver to update the status of the read out. It can open light circuit and can know where to turn on heat. If you want to go nuts you can get a DHT22 for 9$ that give more than just temp but that's overkill for controlling basic lights, music, temp. All in all it's around 20$ per unit counting a 50 cents 3d printed case that fit to existing thermostat box.

The problem is I have quite a lot of Zigbee based devices, that I do not want to upgrade. [Switches, temp sensors, door sensors etc]

and having 40+ wifi devices is not really secure compared to zigbee, if you ask me.

 

Currently running on a PI4 with 2gb of ram, but running out of memory for my automations. so need a upgrade in a few weeks-months

 

  

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

USB is 5Gbit, so no faster... but you can switch the PCIe interface to gen3.

 

The 4 is already more than enough for that.

The problem is that I want to use it for NATIVE home-assistant, and it is uncertain if it will support the conversion to PCIe gen3 with ease, without having to use a custom fork

[Isuck Assimov]

24 minutes ago, Franck said:

If you want to know there is a much cheaper option. I bought a bundle of ESP32 boards that comes down to about 9$ a piece and added a small photo sensor and thermo sensor and it connect to the wifi to my webserver to update the status of the read out. It can open light circuit and can know where to turn on heat. If you want to go nuts you can get a DHT22 for 9$ that give more than just temp but that's overkill for controlling basic lights, music, temp. All in all it's around 20$ per unit counting a 50 cents 3d printed case that fit to existing thermostat box.

ye those ESP32 boards are perfect for sensors but if you want to run a HomeAssistant server a raspi or SFF PC are the way to go

[LAwLz]

This looks like a massive improvement in terms of performance.

I think it's a shame that the price has gone up so much though. The target price for the B models has always been 35 dollars, and then some higher-end models for more. Now it starts at 60 dollars?

I doubt some future model with less RAM would drop the price all the way down to 35 dollars either.

 

 

While I can appreciate the higher performance, in my mind the Raspberry Pi has always been about being super cheap and "good enough" for various projects. I've always though of the Pi as slow but inexpensive, and other manufacturers and products has filled other niches. With this, the Pi is suddenly fast and expensive.

[demonix00]

4 hours ago, Kilrah said:

USB is 5Gbit, so no faster

Except on the Pi4 that bandwidth was shared between both ports, so having two USB 3 storage devices connected meant that neither device could go at their full speed.

 

The new hardware on the Pi5 removes that bottleneck as well as improving SD card speeds (as long as you have a fast enough card).

[Obioban]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

This looks like a massive improvement in terms of performance.

I think it's a shame that the price has gone up so much though. The target price for the B models has always been 35 dollars, and then some higher-end models for more. Now it starts at 60 dollars?

I doubt some future model with less RAM would drop the price all the way down to 35 dollars either.

 

 

While I can appreciate the higher performance, in my mind the Raspberry Pi has always been about being super cheap and "good enough" for various projects. I've always though of the Pi as slow but inexpensive, and other manufacturers and products has filled other niches. With this, the Pi is suddenly fast and expensive.

Really, they're dropped (so far) the 2gb tier and increased the price by $5.

 

If they bring back the 2gb tier, $5 is less than inflation since the 4 came out, so I'd say no price hike at all in real dollars.

I only have 3 pi uses cases that work well on the 2gb model (out of 8 in my house), so I'm not sure it's the worst launch lineup.

 

Ordered a 5, as one of my currently Pi's is severely CPU bound, and this should 100% address it (it's CPU bound because of encryption, and this one has hardware encryption).

[wanderingfool2]

8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

While I can appreciate the higher performance, in my mind the Raspberry Pi has always been about being super cheap and "good enough" for various projects. I've always though of the Pi as slow but inexpensive, and other manufacturers and products has filled other niches. With this, the Pi is suddenly fast and expensive.

Well I guess there would be the Pi Zero 2, which sort of falls into the range that people want...I probably would have gone for this if it wasn't out of stock constantly

 

I like the Pico W, but the constraint of memory is a huge factor for me (Only one that was easy to get my hands on though).  It took a while to get my code to run within it because I had to re-write things like the socket code since PicoW supports only micropython (and not all functionality of uSocket are available in Micropython).  The fact that the  socket stuff can only be run on core 0 really bothers me about the Pico (using core 1 locks up the wireless controller).

 

I do agree though $60 seems a bit high, but I guess it could be used as quite a good media-box (instead of using those android TV boxes that come with tons of spyware).

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, Obioban said:

Really, they're dropped (so far) the 2gb tier and increased the price by $5.

 

If they bring back the 2gb tier, $5 is less than inflation since the 4 came out, so I'd say no price hike at all in real dollars.

The fact of the matter is that you could get Raspberry Pi 4 models for 35 dollars. Now the cheapest you can get the RPi 5 is 60 dollars.

"but they increased the spec! And think of inflation" was never a reason to increase the price in the last 10 years. 

 

The thing about computers and technology is that things tend to get cheaper.

I don't think it's a good idea to defend a price hike by saying "you're getting the same amount of RAM as the 55 dollar version had 4 years ago, so increasing the price by 5 dollars is fair". That coupled with removing the lower cost tiers (both the 1GB and 2GB) makes it far more expensive than it was before. 

 

If we go by that logic, the RPi 1 had 256MB of RAM for 35 dollars. So it would be fair if the RPi 5 costs 560 dollars + inflation. That would mean they didn't increase the price of the RPi, right? See how silly that sounds? You should get more for the same price as time goes on with computers. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Obioban said:

I only have 3 pi uses cases that work well on the 2gb model (out of 8 in my house), so I'm not sure it's the worst launch lineup.

 

Ordered a 5, as one of my currently Pi's is severely CPU bound, and this should 100% address it (it's CPU bound because of encryption, and this one has hardware encryption).

Can I ask what use cases you have that requires 4GB of RAM and run into CPU bottlenecks? It sounds to me like moving away from a raspberry Pi onto something else might be a good idea. An Orange Pi 5 for example has existed for a while now and most likely offers even better performance than the RPi 5. Or maybe combine several things into a single small form factor PC. 

 

[Kilrah]

20 hours ago, Franck said:

If you want to know there is a much cheaper option. I bought a bundle of ESP32 boards that comes down to about 9$ a piece and added a small photo sensor and thermo sensor and it connect to the wifi to my webserver to update the status of the read out. It can open light circuit and can know where to turn on heat. If you want to go nuts you can get a DHT22 for 9$ that give more than just temp but that's overkill for controlling basic lights, music, temp. All in all it's around 20$ per unit counting a 50 cents 3d printed case that fit to existing thermostat box.

The Pi would be the server of course, not a sensor.

 

19 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Currently running on a PI4 with 2gb of ram, but running out of memory for my automations.

Whoa, how? I've got a setup with a HA yellow and a 2GB CM4 / NVMe with 500 esphome devices and several automations with 500-1000 steps and it doesn't break a sweat...

 

  

17 hours ago, demonix00 said:

Except on the Pi4 that bandwidth was shared between both ports, so having two USB 3 storage devices connected meant that neither device could go at their full speed.

The point I was making is that it's no faster than the single gen2 lane as OP claimed. 

 

 

[X-System]

23 hours ago, Levent said:

5v 5A charger required, finding 3A charger was hard enough. Boo.

 

On Amazon, I find a charger 5V up to 6A.

 

https://www.amazon.fr/TOP-CHARGEUR-Adaptateur-Alimentation-Certification/dp/B07VJ4JNHV/

 

And USB to DC female adapter : https://www.amazon.fr/Goliton®-Cordon-femelle-Socket-adaptateur/dp/B076Q7WBG3/

[tim0901]

39 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Can I ask what use cases you have that requires 4GB of RAM and run into CPU bottlenecks? It sounds to me like moving away from a raspberry Pi onto something else might be a good idea. An Orange Pi 5 for example has existed for a while now and most likely offers even better performance than the RPi 5. Or maybe combine several things into a single small form factor PC.

Stuff like Plex works great on a Pi right up until you want to try transcoding where it absolutely shits the bed, so the extra power could make a big difference there.

 

But the biggest reason to buy a Pi isn't the hardware. As others have mentioned, cheap 2nd hand USFF machines will far outperform it for a similar cost without consuming much more power, and there are indeed countless fruit Pi's out there with more X or Y. No, you go with a Pi for the software stack - PiOS in particular - and the community. The Pi foundation is still maintaining PiOS for the original Pi that's now over 11 years old, while other competing Pi's like the Orange Pi typically (although I'll admit I haven't looked at this one specifically) abandon them after 1-2 years, and on top of that their communities are far smaller so they're much less beginner friendly.

[darknessblade]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

The Pi would be the server of course, not a sensor.

 

Whoa, how? I've got a setup with a HA yellow and a 2GB CM4 / NVMe with 500 esphome devices and several automations with 500-1000 steps and it doesn't break a sweat...

 

  

The point I was making is that it's no faster than the single gen2 lane as OP claimed. 

 

 

 

I have no idea.

 

Average Ram usage is around 70-80% when Idle [shoots to 85% when automations trigger]

I have about 50 zigbee devices. {Mostly sensors. and a roughly 4 physical wall switches} [still waiting on a couple switches more, as I am almost done phasing out the old Tuya switches]

 

Have about 25 automations.

Most of my automations are time based, or need a trigger [Ikea tradfri button], 

Some are not used during the spring to fall months. [IR heating panel], so I use a different automation to Disable them. [Childlock]

 

 

 

 

[tim0901]

23 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Why doesn't it have USB PD???? 5v 5A? Does anyone even sell that?..

It does.

 

Read the official specs - it explicitly lists Power Delivery support, and the negotiation chip for it is clearly shown off in Jeff Geerling's video. In fact, it has to support it, since non-PD caps out at 5V 3A over USB-C. What it doesn't support is any voltage levels other than 5V. But that isn't a required part of USB PD.

 

Most manufacturers use PD for the variable voltage part of the spec, but the PD spec also enables the device to pull current up to "the maximum current supported by its receptacle" - aka the maximum supported by USB C, which is 5A. This is why USB PD was limited to 100W for so long - that's 20V @ 5A, making full advantage of the spec. Many manufacturers don't bother with extending the current at lower voltages, but it is a supported use of the spec.

 

But as RPI have stated, most of that additional power is for peripherals. The board itself only uses 12W under peak load. So for most people I really don't think it's much of an issue.

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, tim0901 said:

Stuff like Plex works great on a Pi right up until you want to try transcoding where it absolutely shits the bed, so the extra power could make a big difference there.

 

But the biggest reason to buy a Pi isn't the hardware. As others have mentioned, cheap 2nd hand USFF machines will far outperform it for a similar cost without consuming much more power, and there are indeed countless fruit Pi's out there with more X or Y. No, you go with a Pi for the software stack - PiOS in particular - and the community. The Pi foundation is still maintaining PiOS for the original Pi that's now over 11 years old, while other competing Pi's like the Orange Pi typically (although I'll admit I haven't looked at this one specifically) abandon them after 1-2 years, and on top of that their communities are far smaller so they're much less beginner friendly.

I would argue you're using the wrong tool for the job if you're trying to do Plex transcoding and hosting on a Pi.

A cheap second-hand SFF PC with an Intel CPU with integrated graphics will perform WAY better for roughly the same price. Not just "it's slightly better" but like, way better. 

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

A cheap second-hand SFF PC with an Intel CPU with integrated graphics will perform WAY better for roughly the same price. Not just "it's slightly better" but like, way better. 

There's a mix going on here with people expecting more of their Pi platform, and the price of a Pi inflating relative to their performance. People aren't evaluating their needs properly. At some point, it simply makes more sense to just skip the Pi and go with used SFF x86 with an iGPU that does transcoding in hardware and native encryption via AES-NI.

[Obioban]

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The fact of the matter is that you could get Raspberry Pi 4 models for 35 dollars. Now the cheapest you can get the RPi 5 is 60 dollars.

"but they increased the spec! And think of inflation" was never a reason to increase the price in the last 10 years. 

 

The thing about computers and technology is that things tend to get cheaper.

I don't think it's a good idea to defend a price hike by saying "you're getting the same amount of RAM as the 55 dollar version had 4 years ago, so increasing the price by 5 dollars is fair". That coupled with removing the lower cost tiers (both the 1GB and 2GB) makes it far more expensive than it was before. 

 

If we go by that logic, the RPi 1 had 256MB of RAM for 35 dollars. So it would be fair if the RPi 5 costs 560 dollars + inflation. That would mean they didn't increase the price of the RPi, right? See how silly that sounds? You should get more for the same price as time goes on with computers. 

 

 

 

Can I ask what use cases you have that requires 4GB of RAM and run into CPU bottlenecks? It sounds to me like moving away from a raspberry Pi onto something else might be a good idea. An Orange Pi 5 for example has existed for a while now and most likely offers even better performance than the RPi 5. Or maybe combine several things into a single small form factor PC. 

 

I think the era of getting more for less on computers is drawing to a close, so might be time to start rethinking that expectation. 

 

The pi that's bottlenecked that I'm replacing handles my torrenting. It runs Sonarr, Radarr, and Transmission OpenVPN (which also watches the downloads folders on all my computers, since there's a bunch of laptops floating around where torrenting is annoying with them getting put to sleep when not in use). 

 

The bottleneck is the encryption-- both because of the VPN and because of the torrent encryption. The result is that I can only get ~1/3 of my available internet speed. Not only is the Pi 5 2-3x faster (which alone would probably get me near fully speed), but it also has ARM hardware encryption (finally)-- so hopefully the CPU won't even be stressed and I can underclock the thing. 

 

New Pi5 will also benefit me for the transfer off the Pi to the NAS when done-- currently it's going over 1gb ethernet, from a USB drive on the same bus. With the new one, I can connect 5gbe ethernet dongle to one USB 3 port, the USB NVME to the other, and have faster offloading to the NAS as a result. 

 

I have no desire to go off a Pi because it idles along at less than 3 watts. 

 

Certainly some tasks need nothing-- e.g. I still have an OG Pi 1 that I use for my RDK GPS server.