Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[brometheus64]

23 minutes ago, Blze001 said:

... but the actual reviews of legitimate products being done in Labs NEED to be combed over for inaccuracies and NEEDS to be retested when ones are found. Otherwise what's the point of building Labs in the first place?

100%. So many ppl here defend those mistakes by arguing 'LTT is only for entertainmet', but LTT themself advertise their lab data and their superior quality all the time. In every test the lab is mentioned and the large number of automated benchmarks and so on. In reality the quality is decreasing.

[wanderingfool2]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Indeed, the Toyota review was one that bothered me, Linus even replied to that thread and acted like he was above having to disclose how they got the vehicle for review, I think if LMG wants to get into car reviews they need to be more transparent with sponsorships. Linus seems to take things too personally and keeps on having the "trust me bro" attitude like viewers are just supposed to trust LMG as a company, the fanboys are of course although the whole "trust me bro" goes against what Linus says himself not to trust corporations.

I do find it funny how Linus used the whole "anyone with a functioning brainstem" as a justification...and yet like the mouse one where they apparently didn't use any bit of thinking...I'm tired of the whole Linus thinking he's above the law.  (And yet in that thread, I'm apparently the one who was too stuck in my ways for saying he should disclose things).  The GN stuff I think really highlights what I'm essentially trying to talk about.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

2 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Again not disagreeing that the look is bad, it is imo. But by the law, it's not a conflict of interest since the money is from a different pool/account not tied to the business beyond Linus being the owner of the company. That's all I'm saying. 

Law is often stupid. By law, it's not illegal for Jeff Besos to pay zero dollars of income tax each year, because he paid his lawyers to find necessary loopholes.

[LinusTech]

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

[Josysclei]

First of all, the whole Billet Labs stuff is completely absurd if true. I don't think they would intentionally sell something they couldn't, probably some massive fuck up in communications happened between the team responsible for sending it back and the people choosing the items to be auctioned, but it's still a huge issue and 100% LTT's responsibility to fix it and make sure something like this never ever happens again. 

 

About the rushed content, it's something that a lot of times crosses the border of "fun jank" to being just frustrating. Every single project they do seems to be rushed, unfinished, untested and plagued with issues and oversights. And that could be their content "brand", seems like many people enjoy the jank. But if they now want to present themselves as serious testers, someone the community can look up for reliable data with Labs, that mindset needs to change, FAST. How the hell can I trust someone who has to correct themselves almost every video? And makes errors that a basic review of the content could catch? 

 

You need to pump out 7 videos a week? Sure buddy, but maybe allow more time sensitive projects to be properly planned, executed and reviewed and throw some "here's 10 fun crap we found on aliexpress" videos to make up for it.

[FadedSpark]

1 minute ago, Benji_w said:

If you've watched Steve's video and can honestly, with straight face, and pure 100% faith in LMG, reply to the thread that Steve is out of hand for making the video, you're delusional and need to seek help. Not only that but you've proven what he's saying in the whole video.

 

 

 

Calling people delusional is just going to reinforce their belief that this is a hit piece and not something borne out of genuine concern for the community.

 

That said, there's definitely a lot of takes in here where people are acting personally attacked and that's a little out of touch.

 

The video is good natured. The message isn't an attack, it's a concern. And after trust me bro, Steve said point blank he was no longer treating ltt as an individual but the corporation that it is.

 

Corporations don't care about your feelings. Corporations aren't people. Corporations don't get handled with kid gloves.

 

They get publicly discussed, and allowed to make their own decision on how to respond to that discussion.

[Dutch_Master]

23 minutes ago, jamaniek said:

Unfortunately that's not going to happen. Whoever bought it bought it fair and square. Even if it's a competitor I'm not sure whether it's allowed to publicize such information without permission. The fault falls solely on LMG in this case.

Yes and no. Legally, you're correct that the buyer bought it fair and square. But I doubt said buyer would not be aware (after today's storm) about the status of the purchase he made so as I said, the buyer should have the decency to return the block to Billet Labs. Whether or not the buyer does that is not our choice. But the auction was public (even at a ticketed convention) so the winners name is public too.

 

Should the buyer be a competitor it's clear they bought the block knowing very well it was from a (potential) competitor and purchasing it has revealed their competitors secrets to them. Exposing them will put pressure on the dishonest manufacturer to not use any knowledge they gained from the prototype in their own products. Again, the auction was public, so is the winners name. LMG is very much to blame, but a manufacturer knowingly buying a competitors secrets is at minimal morally dishonest and may even be cause for litigation between Billet Labs and the dishonest manufacturer.

 

But that's just my opinion

[the9thdude]

5 minutes ago, SAUVE76 said:

But why, is it full more of attacks ...as I said they are aware of the issues and will fix...  what else is there bar attacks

If legitimate criticism of how a company's testing methodology resulting in errors is considered an attack, then I'm not sure what else to say besides it not being one.

 

Here's the thing, if you want to be a lab, and you want to be held to lab standards, then you open your methods and data to scrutiny, which is what GN is doing here. LMG has the ability, and the right to respond to these allegations by re-running the tests to reproduce the data if they want to stand by it, but they aren't. GN's video isn't an attack, it's a flashlight on some of LMG's recent practices that have dubious ethical standings that need to be addressed.

[GotWeez]

10 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

I guess I understand the problem, how do we create more time?

 

If we assume that LMG video schedule is based on their overhead, which with the 100+ headcount is substantial.

So if they can't cut back on the content schedule, how can they have more time to create videos with better quality control for accuracy?

I think the challenge for many people is that change isn't instant, and process change can take a long time to get right and take effect.

You create time by trimming wastes of time

 

If you assume LMG is operating at a Net 0... sure, overhead is problematic

 

If you can't properly manage your current workload, you stop growing or take less work. Otherwise your quality slips and you aren't producing anything of value.

 

That's outright wrong. Processes can be changed immediately. It just takes the willingness to do so. We aren't talking about reinventing the wheel... we're talking about slowing down and caring enough to take your time and get it right.

 

If they can't care enough to take the time, or in some cases even do the bare minimal, to get it right... what value is there in you watching it? Watching it knowing that you're watching factually incorrect shovelware garbage?

 

Can't even be bothered to finish a tech upgrade... One shot... if it's not finished... oh well, screw it...

[xzvf]

Data issues aside; @LinusTech Regarding the Billet Labs situation, could you please publicly state and justify the monetary compensation paid out to Billet Labs for the “loss” of their prototype? What steps are you taking to prevent such issues in the future?

[Alex T88]

1 minute ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

Law is often stupid.

Law is made to benefit the wealthy and the influential by the wealthy and the influential. Everywhere in the world, without exception. The rest are just cogs who serve a purpose. It has always been like that. That's why entities like Billet Labs stand no chance against someone way bigger than themselves. And that's why LMG, would stand no chance if they did something similar to Amazon, for that matter.

[jooroth18]

14 minutes ago, Srius1 said:

Steve is lame for doing this piece on LTT for someone who linus called his friend. I can see lots of other creators not dealing with GN any more for this. I bought over $400 of product from GN but will not spend another penny there due to this.

 

zero need for this BS hit piece . There are tons of other stories he could have done and this is dumb and just starting a fight and drama for no reason. Linus has said multiple times LTT videos are entertainment first. They never said they were 1000% accurate . This is like being mad at McDonald’s for their burgers not looking the exact same as the picture…

I cant tell if you are joking or being serious.

[Moortu]

Not returning the Billet waterblock and auctioning it.

So many people are calling it theft for some reason.

While occams razor would probably point to a HUGE fuckup but not intentional.

 

It's incredibly stupid and they need to make amends.

But think it's to early to get the pitchforks out.

 

I did dislike how Linus didn't properly test the block and said not to buy it.

You can buy equipment for the lab for thousands and ten thousands of dollars, but not spend 500 more per video to make them accurate?

 

The quality of videos has gone down over the time. They are funny, but a lot of times I wish a concept was better fleshed out into a video. 

 

I personally am  not a huge fan of the "going in blind videos", where the concept has been tested by someone but Linus then goes in mostly blind. A well constructed plan is more my thing but that's my opinion

 

 

[VinLAURiA]

5 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

While mistakes happen and it's good you're compensating them, I'm concerned about Billet's IP.

 

How much of that prototype was a trade secret? Now it's out in the wild.

[LinusTech]

3 minutes ago, xzvf said:

Data issues aside; @LinusTech Regarding the Billet Labs situation, could you please publicly state and justify the monetary compensation paid out to Billet Labs for the “loss” of their prototype? What steps are you taking to prevent such issues in the future?

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up some documentation.

[JorjXMcKie]

It's a matter of opinion whether or not frequently making mistakes in videos and either not correcting them or putting asterisks is an ethical issue (personally it doesn't bother me that much, I never paid any attention to LTT's graphs in the first place). I mean it's kind of on brand for them to have screwups. It's a bit disappointing that nobody in the entire company saw an issue with the AMD thing, but whatever.

 

It's a matter of opinion on the sponsorship thing (I personally have no issue with the Framework investment)

 

The Billet labs thing though... I mean we only have one side of the story (other than Linus' stupid rant on WAN show) but that looks really rotten.  To the point where it's almost certainly an organizational FUBAR. Surely LTT didn't think that would get swept under the rug.

[scrps93]

I'm frankly shocked to heat about the Billet Labs waterblock auction, what LTT did is completely unacceptable. How in the world do they not give back a review sample of a one-of-a-kind prototype? That is really low. Also, you would think the most basic step to give an accurate review would be to test the waterblock on the product which it was designed to work on

Also, that mouse review should've gone down the instant they realized they didn't freaking remove the tape... wtf

[FadedSpark]

7 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

Specifically responding to this and while I don't expect a reply, this just is an excuse to me.

 

How many times have you done something extreme just for the sake of doing it? Or because you wanted the absolute best price be damned?

 

Whole home water cooling. Water chiller. Mineral oil PC etc etc.

 

If it was the best waterblock money could buy, someone will buy it.

 

You shouldn't have accepted the review if you weren't going to at least commit to doing it right. If you weren't comfortable with the expense of doing it right, then you should have declined.

 

All you did was damage a fledgling companies image.

[bizzehdee]

6 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team)

 

contacting linus personally, and resolving it quietly. is the exact opposite of "proper journalistic practices", what an absolute narcasistic arrogant buffoon

[bizzehdee]

Just now, Tau_1s said:

hopefully LMG goes bankrupt

They are already there morally, and ethically...

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

2 hours ago, Drone971 said:

I made account here just to tell you how EXTREMLY angered i am by all of this. If only 10% of what GN claims is correct (and i presume most of it if not all actually is) this will be one of the biggest f-ups in the industry. I will wait for wanshow and if linus does not explains 90% of this stuff i am unsubscribing. I am  angered beyond belive. This is just insulting

I hate to break it to you, but all tech journalism has plenty of factual errors, especially those that go for the video format. To avoid falling into the what-aboutism category, let me just say that as someone who works in related industries, GN has plenty of bad takes as well, the difference being that they're not nearly as good about going "my bad". LTT doesn't get needlessly defensive over the fact that they make errors, and they often include the bad takes in videos with corrections, which I appreciate because it does tend to show the initial genuine reaction - something which is useful for myself as someone that's tangentially related with product design on various occasions. This is far more useful than a boring line that might get missed from my point of view.

 

2 hours ago, Viesulis said:

The Billet Labs thing is heartbreaking. Imagine being the people making that. Linus says he doesnt want to spend 500 dollars worth someones time retesting it but hes absolutely fine with stealing and selling off something someone has worked on for hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours? Even more tragically there might not even be a contractual agreement and Billet Labs might not be able to afford a lawsuit. Im going to unsub and not watch a second of LMG content until this is resolved and i urge others to do the same. 

I would imagine it's actually more than 500 USD, having an actual person with some training and a college/university degree work in a building tends to cost around $90-100 an hour. So you need someone doing the work, someone on the camera, someone doing sound, and preferably some sort of director present, so the shoot alone would probably end up costing around $2000, if you then need to manufacture a new mounting bracket, etc. you could easily lose an entire day and now you're looking at somewhere around $4000 to $5000. It also doesn't account for the fact that you might have a deal with sponsors that require the video to come out on a certain date, availability of working and recording spaces, etc.; which is to say that I understand not wanting to do another take. But it's indicative of general communication problems between billet labs and LTT, which compounds further with the block being sold at auction. The real question is how they respond after the screw up becomes known. I experienced this type of communication breakdown at both small start-ups and multi-billion dollar corporations, so I can totally see it happening at LTT as well.

 

53 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

I have my own frustrations with some of Steve/GN’s videos too but accuracy of information isn’t on that list.

Accuracy of information is actually my main grievance with Gamers Nexus. Every time they dove into electronics manufacturing I just cringed and wanted to start bashing my head on my desk to make it stop.

 

49 minutes ago, antempus said:

The point he was making was that if you're consistent reviewer and reputable journalist (if you want to go there) then you don't verify your findings with the third party, you revalidate/reproduce your data with your consistent methodology; going to AMD and shrugging it as good enough was the wrong direction vs just publishing and seeing what happens compared to the wider group. 

Asking the manufacturer for input when you have unexpected results is quite desirable when dealing with complex and new products, it's quite possible a single setting could make all the difference in the world. I just wish this would be done consistently across all products if unexpected results pop up.

 

15 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Hiring more people doesn't solve the problem immediately, and contributes to the problem of overhead driving the need for so many videos.  Training takes time, especially to get people to standard that is expected.  Training also takes away the resources that would be making videos, and training needs to be a constant ongoing process and there needs to be enough time for new employees to get up to the LMG standard..  And working people overtime to train and crank out videos, burns people out and creates errors. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the recent increase in error rate is caused by the large volume intake of new employees.

[Moortu]

6 minutes ago, Josysclei said:

First of all, the whole Billet Labs stuff is completely absurd if true. I don't think they would intentionally sell something they couldn't, probably some massive fuck up in communications happened between the team responsible for sending it back and the people choosing the items to be auctioned, but it's still a huge issue and 100% LTT's responsibility to fix it and make sure something like this never ever happens again. 

 

About the rushed content, it's something that a lot of times crosses the border of "fun jank" to being just frustrating. Every single project they do seems to be rushed, unfinished, untested and plagued with issues and oversights. And that could be their content "brand", seems like many people enjoy the jank. But if they now want to present themselves as serious testers, someone the community can look up for reliable data with Labs, that mindset needs to change, FAST. How the hell can I trust someone who has to correct themselves almost every video? And makes errors that a basic review of the content could catch? 

 

You need to pump out 7 videos a week? Sure buddy, but maybe allow more time sensitive projects to be properly planned, executed and reviewed and throw some "here's 10 fun crap we found on aliexpress" videos to make up for it.

There is "planned jank" and "we sorta tested a concept and now go in blind jank"

I prefer planned jank

[bitbyt3r]

Having just rewatched the coverage of the Billet Labs cooler in this context honestly I think LTT isn't that bad here. Obviously if they were supposed to return the block and auctioned it off instead that's pretty awful, but in terms of what they said about the product I think it was a fair take. Testing with the 3090TI would have been better, but probably won't actually affect the purchasing decision of anyone who would buy that thing.

[xzvf]

Just now, LinusTech said:

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up soime documentation.

Fair enough. I do respect the quick reply, and the willingness to fix damage caused to other parties.
 

 

On a lighter note: This week’s WAN show will likely be a spicy one

[Alan999]

I watch pretty much every video uploaded by GN and LMG. GN is mostly for reviews and LMG is mostly for entertainment. There is plenty of crossover with news etc. but that's the main categories, for me anyway.

My (totally parasocial) take is that Linus and Steve's relationship fully broke down during their public dispute over 3070ti pricing a few years back. I'm sure the subsequent ramping up of the LTT lab and such things as the PSU tester didn't help the relationship either.

During the "trust me bro" debacle, Steve announced he had decided to review LMG content and products differently and hold them to a higher standard. I'm not sure what the threshold was, earnings, employees or maybe a gut feeling, but it was certainly self-imposed by Steve.

Just to be clear, I feel Linus handled "trust me bro" terribly. To this day, he suggests that even those who didn't know him or the company were basically stupid if they couldn't deduce they were covered. I don't know if it's manipulation or if he genuinely believes it, either way it was handled very badly.

I also believe GN's handling of their recent recall was bad. It was more of a pat on the back and showcase on how well they handled it rather than cold hard facts. Ironic when you think how much Steve hates other companies marketing. The whole video didn't even make it clear if a refund was available. Sticker and a pin? I also think an incorrect wiring diagram can potentially do a lot more damage than a faulty zip puller. I can't find the video now either, has it been pulled?

Anyway, there are many valid points made in the video. Also, some very serious allegations (Billet Labs) that will need to be addressed and (unlike many others here) I'll decide after hearing the other side of the story. Unfortunately, there is also plenty of supposition from Steve. Assumptions about sponsor relationships and employee ties to previous companies. Company valuations etc. that are not offered for any other YT channel reviews. In fact, GN don't review other channels or more accurately; they don't review competitors at all, except for LMG.

I also really hate the way Steve cuts in the reactions of Luke. This was done during "trust me bro" too... "you can see Luke agrees". How does he know what he's thinking, it's pretty poor journalism and seems like petty playground behaviour. I think Steve's bias is showing and there is far more opinion, speculation, and sensationism than any previous topic they have covered.