Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[GotWeez]

1 minute ago, Budget DIY said:

Let's call it 110% stupidity, and a very valid reason to fire someone.

You could also see it as more insidious and call it a marketing strategy. "We raised money for charity... we have a good image... sponsor us yes... dump your money on us."

[jooroth18]

1 minute ago, Billetlabsauction said:

You just said that they misrepresented it for money and then auctioned it off for money. That sure sounds like you're trying to say they auctioned it off after misrepresenting it in a more convoluted way!

Yeah because its more messed up than it seems.

[geomac]

GN is 95% right here, I think the part about the Framework investment and Noctua relationship were very minor issues at worst.

 

However, the Billet Labs situation is absolutely vile and deserves community attention and LMG can save this by making it right, assuming the alleged timeline took place as presented in GN's video.

 

Here's some steps that I feel would show good faith and direction to resolve the Billet Situation:

1. Removal of the video which had the incorrect application of this product and critique after not using the product correctly

2. A full effort to recover the prototype, full throated apology, and explanation as to how this screw up happened.

3. Full compensation for the opportunity cost of not timely returning the prototype and sufficient funding for the production and labor cost of a new prototype of a new prototype if the original one cannot be recovered.

4. Facilitation of a review from a tech reviewer who is willing to put in the, say $200-$500, worth of labor to do a proper review which LMG was not willing to do before publishing. For example: an LMG endorsed (WAN show callout, twitter callout, youtube community post, etc) and LMG sponsored GN review of the cooler would show an attitude of growth and accepting criticism, as well as an honest attempt at making the situation right.

 

This is not inclusive of content and editorial changes that need to happen to increase the accuracy of LMG videos, not to mention the potential theft of Billet's trade secret from the R&D sample.

 

Edit: Take out ASUS mention

[izan TM]

2 hours ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Just for clarity and clarification, it is Linus's personal money invested in framework, not LTT or LMG. 

yes but that doesn't really matter, linus still hosts the videos, so his laptop reviews will never be trustworthy unless his face isn't on the video

[Alex T88]

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

Except Billet is *tiny* they are unlikely to have the capital to take LMG to court.  

They're probably screwed.  

Well, that would raise some serious questions about the justice system, wherever the potential trial might take place. I presume that Billet Labs, would have a patent, some documentation that certifies that it is their prototype. I am also presuming that they had some legal paperwork that was done, when they gave that prototype to LMG for review. I would certainly hope, that is the way things happened. Otherwise, Billet Labs might have screwed themselves. Again I am not referring to any moral/ethical aspects. I am simply referring to the legal implications. This is between 2 companies. Not between Linus and some guy or a company. 

[Jazmodo]

39 minutes ago, VicBar said:

Which both of these yt channels claim to have first and foremost on their mind. And I believe them.

And therein lies the problem - you implicitly believe/trust a YT channel at face value. 

 

I enjoy LMG for what it is, entertainment. If you come here for cold, hard facts & nothing more, you need to subscribe to a journal, and even then it's not guaranteed 100% tue.

[Lyre]

3 minutes ago, SAUVE76 said:

Does the remaining video continue on the attack.

Criticism =/= Attack and if GN wanted to attack ltt I doubt he'd spend 45 minutes going over points

[Timoran Synkral]

16 minutes ago, TheFlyingSquirrel said:

Speaking from a purely legal perspective, disclosure is required in the video.

 

LMG is a company not a individual, while new CEO is unlikely to, legal action for reputational damage is actually poasible.

 

Steve hasnt really covered himself in that regard.

I Am Not A Lawyer (I suspect neither are you) but if you're saying LMG has a defamation claim against GN, I doubt it. LMG constitutes a public figure, and for a statement to be defamatory, it first of all has to be false, and second of all, if it is false, it must have been presented with actual malice or reckless disregard to the truth. I don't even know what LMG would accuse from GN's video of being false. I think most of the factual points are things Linus has admitted.

[pinkcat]

11 minutes ago, Troutofdoom said:

Remember like...3 days ago when Linus complained about a prototype backpack showing up a thrift store?

That is just pure Kramer 

[Rysters Tech]

9 minutes ago, Kronoton said:

Not that it would matter, but he was 11 in a WAN show and back to 10 in the next one....

 

 

But what kind of argument is it in the 1st place? You can't criticize someone for doing s##t because the may have underage children that might come to have doubts about the god-like status of their parents?

Have you ever been in a situation as a child where your parents had to sell everything because of one making a utterly stupid and unessecary mistake, i havent been in that situation or anything close to it fortunately. But when that does happen, the effect lingers on years later, no one would ever want to be known as the child of that colossal idiot, which is very possible if not guaranteed as Linus is a huge public figure. You should never wish someone losing their house on anybody unless they have killed people or tortured enslaved etc...... As much as i personally hate that situation with the prototype block, that is not justified, and you arent going to convince me that it is. @BaidDSB went way too far when they made this statement in the quote below, particularly the highlighted part in yellow. 

 

Quote

LMG should be sued to oblivion for the theft and unauthorized selling of that water block.

 

 

make Millionaire Linus, not the company LMG, pay the damages. Would cut his ego down to earth. i like to imagine what he has to say to his kids that he'd have to sell the house because hes a narcissistic jackass who committed a crime

 

I am not going to discuss this anymore, as its clearly a waste of my time, but i hope the og poster @BaidDSB comes around.

[Benji_w]

Just now, geomac said:

 being too soft on ASUS

 

You missed a whole ass point.... Asus are a major sponsor, they glossed over the whole motherboards killing CPUs from overvolting and warranty thing and instead rang up about.... A CABLE.... sure G

[Cavalry Canuck]

3 minutes ago, Middcore said:

I don't know if @Asbo Zapruder ever re-posted here in the main thread but I thought it was a good point:

 

 

The egregious ethics of selling the prototype aside, this attitude calls into question the entire rationale of the labs project. 

Linus has always been a bit of a prick. I remember they were reviewing some MSI z79 or z89 board and Linus told “Slick” off in a rather rude manner. E  Even left it in the video. I’m sure that’s never changed behind the scenes, but that’s also why I said the channel lost its soul when Luke went to do Floatplane. It’s Linus’ name on it, but it was Luke’s personality that made it.

 

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

In my opinion Steve addressed the modmat issue fine, at least to the extent he could with the size of the company he has. If he were to recall all of the modmats that would be a considerable amount of money to spend compared to fixing the issue.

The people that bought a modmat were offered a free correction, and he took all of the modmats off the store until they were corrected with the updated labeling. I think thats fine given the error, if there wasn't a warranty he wouldn't have to offer a solution. Also given that Linus didn't want to offer a warranty on a backpack when that is an industry standard on backpacks that are in a similar price range or cheaper. The whole "trust me bro" warranty could have meant there wouldn't have been any support at all if someone got a backpack with a defective zipper or a strap fails.

I’m not saying is solution was bad. When he was first outlining it, one of the thoughts going through my head was that it was probably the best that he could afford. But that doesn’t mean it meets the same standard I feel he layed out for Linus. I think it’s hypocritical, even if the alternative was impractical.

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

Except Billet is *tiny* they are unlikely to have the capital to take LMG to court.  

They're probably screwed.  

Might screw LMG too, in the long run. What Corp, in their right mind, is going to send their products to LMG Willy Nilly after this? Things are going to be a lot more locked down and structured so far as product samples go. 

[Billetlabsauction]

16 minutes ago, SAUVE76 said:

I spent 5mins on Steves video then stopped...I don't use just one source for anything I intend to buy or review just to know about that item of interest.  LTT even state viewers to do so.  I enjoy LTT videos for info as it is done with a bit of fun...to add if I am interested in what ever it is in that video, i review the site of the manufacturer and other reviews.  Yes maybe some fixes at LTT are needed and even Linus and others there state this is needed.  So what was the point of the video bar an attack.  I believe as LTT are spending as they are on the lab as being the reasoning and for me that is poor on GN part.  That for me is disturbing as it's against the approach of having more than one source for such things, so the LTT Lab should be welcomed by GN, not a reason to attack. GN need to retract the video and approach differently or they lose credibility for me.  

someone rightfully pointed out the flawed testing techniques and mistakes of my favorite youtuber so I hate them and wont listen to the deserved criticism. I will also gloss over the fact that LTT stole a prototype block worth thousands and then auctioned it off even if it wasnt their property AFTER misrepresenting it. 

 

Damn dude, I think you should watch the full GN video and form an OBJECTIVE view on the situation lmao. 

[Lyre]

Just now, Timoran Synkral said:

I Am Not A Lawyer (I suspect neither are you) but if you're saying LMG has a defamation claim against GN, I doubt it. LMG constitutes a public figure, and for a statement to be defamatory, it first of all has to be false, and second of all, if it is false, it must have been presented with actual malice or reckless disregard to the truth. I don't even know what LMG would accuse from GN's video of being false. I think most of the factual points are things Linus has admitted.

There would be no case for sure, I SLAP lawsuit would also be very bad face for ltt

[R_M_Renfield]

17 minutes ago, RasmusDC said:

it is fun the law maybe different in Canada, but here, if you buy stolen goods, you can be punished as hard as the thief..

"Knowingly" buying stolen goods

[K4shira]

Wow... now LTT is being acused by a (IMO) very credible channel of theft... stealing a companies prototype is serious and if true I hope that Billet Labs files a police report. The fact that Linus himself said that he would not want to invest a few hundred bucks to fix a serious mistake they made which could potentially ruin Billet Labs is just the icing on the cake.

 

And I fully agree with the declining quality. In the last maybe 6-12 months I have stopped watching most LTT video because it became just too unreliable to be even used for entertainment. I like the videos where they build some insanely stupid thing, but any videos where they even remotely try to be factual... I just can't watch it anymore. Especially when compared to GN or HUB. It really hit me when I found the Daniel Owens tech channel and realized that his one-man show YT channel has more useful, and more accurate information than any recent LTT video.

 

LTT Labs sounds like a great idea, but Linus himself confirm that they are investing money in all the wrong things. Why buy all this fancy expensive new equipment, build this fancy testing chamber for 6 figures but then not be willing to literally invest A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS to fix a big mistake in your testing? I cannot comprehend how these decisions are made.

 

The TMB was the "nail in the coffin" for me regarding the LTT merch store, and not because they didn't offer warranty at first but because if Linus's reaction. And this new GN video puts into words what I've been noticing for the past year... I hope LTT fixes the quality issues, fixes their mentality and methodology. But before that, they need to fix the issue with Billet Labs. They need to return the stolen Prototype and compensate any damages that Billet Labs incurred. 

[Billetlabsauction]

4 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Yeah because its more messed up than it seems.

ah, got it. Understood your statement differently than your intent, that's on me. 

[Srius1]

Steve is lame for doing this piece on LTT for someone who linus called his friend. I can see lots of other creators not dealing with GN any more for this. I bought over $400 of product from GN but will not spend another penny there due to this.

 

zero need for this BS hit piece . There are tons of other stories he could have done and this is dumb and just starting a fight and drama for no reason. Linus has said multiple times LTT videos are entertainment first. They never said they were 1000% accurate . This is like being mad at McDonald’s for their burgers not looking the exact same as the picture…

[Jazmodo]

1 hour ago, A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer said:

but they are mostly irrelevant to the video. You seem to be upset that GN, almost to a level of annoyance, puts accuracy and ethics above LMG's "entertainment" factor.

 

an irrelevant statement of my own: I've noticed LTT videos becoming more focused on including their children viewers and I think their twitch "meme" status has given them a huge growth in child viewership and so they are trying to capitalize on this. It must be insanely good for their bottom line

It's the undertones & snide comments, it's unnecessary. I've watch a lot of GN. This isn't an isolated incident, nor just with LTT. It just happens to be the most egregious example. 

 

Yes, GN have done some great investigative work, but that doesn't justify the crusader attitude. I enjoy GN when it's extreme OC & in-depth case testing, or similar. This garbage, less so. 

[lal12]

2 minutes ago, post_screen said:

I don’t know the company policy on firing people, but it seems that they have a hard time firing employees. Colton is a prime example, but I found it pretty weird that Tim didn’t get fired after that blunder. I know that he is an important part of the company, but he hurt their reputation big time with that claim. Don’t think anyone will be fired over Billet Labs thing

Firing him because of what he said would be completely inappropriate.

1. this statement was made in front of other people,

2. it was edited, 

3. it was reviewed (hopefully QC?), 

4. (AFAIK) he isn't in a leading role (non technical at least)

5. as far as I understood it, it is actually the plan/goal for the lab

6. the lab provides data the writer puts them in a video

As Steve himself said I would consider that a minor issue. The other issues and specifically the Billet Labs thing are much worse. Whether someone should be fired for it highly depends on the circumstances and can only be reviewed internally.

[dragonuck76]

3 minutes ago, the9thdude said:

Finish the video.

 

Yes, you should always look at multiple reviews but the issue at hand is even with Labs testing, their testing methodology is shoddy, error prone, and appears to have some conflict of interest in some products they review which have not been addressed. If the errors are caught before publishing, usually an * is included rather than a re-shoot of the incorrect part, and part of the problem here is the heavy reliance on asterisks in recent LMG videos.

 

If an error does make it's way through publishing and it gets caught, one of a few things happens: a correction is made in the comments but is not pinned, a correction is made in the comments and is pinned, or an "in place" re-upload is done. The fact that there is no consistent way of this being handled is a problem since there is no way of knowing how to look for that corrected information.

 

These two issues could be solved by providing the team more time on each video, which is one of the things that is included in some of the meet the team videos and is directly quoted by.  GN.

 

Again, go back, finish the video.

But why, is it full more of attacks ...as I said they are aware of the issues and will fix...  what else is there bar attacks

[geomac]

1 minute ago, Benji_w said:

You missed a whole ass point.... Asus are a major sponsor, they glossed over the whole motherboards killing CPUs from overvolting and warranty thing and instead rang up about.... A CABLE.... sure G

Agreed - my recollection is that on the relevant WAN show they told ASUS to "make it right" / "make it go away [by making these customers whole]" or that they would drop ASUS, but I didn't follow up on the situation. I'll make an edit to take that part out since I don't have full context.

[Kronoton]

2 minutes ago, Rysters Tech said:

Have you ever been in a situation as a child where your parents had to sell everything because of one making a utterly stupid and unessecary mistake

 

And again what is the alternative?

 

The blame lies with parent making "a utterly stupid and unessecary mistake" not with the journalist pointing it out.

[Benji_w]

1 minute ago, Srius1 said:

Steve is lame for doing this piece on LTT for someone who linus called his friend. I can see lots of other creators not dealing with GN any more for this. I bought over $400 of product from GN but will not spend another penny there due to this.

 

zero need for this BS hit piece . There are tons of other stories he could have done and this is dumb and just starting a fight and drama for no reason. Linus has said multiple times LTT videos are entertainment first. They never said they were 1000% accurate . This is like being mad at McDonald’s for their burgers not looking the exact same as the picture…

Omg you've missed the whole point....

[BondiBlue]

11 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

What wan show did this happen? Just curious