New York State Butchers Right To Repair Bill making it useless

[AlTech]

NOTE: Please keep this topic within Tech News and Not Politics. Please follow the CS. Thanks.

 

Summary

In a move that feels like it's come from a villain from a James Bond movie, New York Right To Repair has been significantly nerfed to the point where it no longer is Right To Repair.

 

The bill as ammended after the Governor of New York refused to sign it as is, allows companies to refuse to provide individual parts or components if they deem it to be a safety or security hazard.

 

The original bill passed 147 to 2 and 59 to 4 in New York's 2 legislative houses previously and was sent to the Governor's desk for signing.

 

But instead of the Governor vetoing the bill (as expected), the bill was ammended to nerf Right To Repair whilst technically passing the bill (again).

 

Quotes

Possibly the best quote to ever be put in an LTT TN topic

Quote

"The right to repair bill that I spent 7 years trying to get passed in my home state got f*cked"..

 

Normal Part of the Bill etc

Quote

"The bill requires Original Equipment Manufacturers of Digital Electronic Products to provide materials to Product Owners and Independant Repair Providers in New York to facilitate repairs. Such materials include documents like manuals and diagrams and tools like diagnostics and parts....."

 

The watering down of the bill that was already part of the bill previously:

Quote

"The bill exempts certain products and industries from the bill's requirements including home appliances, motor vehicles, medical devices, and offroad equipment."

 

Time to destroy Right To Repair:

Quote

"The legislation as drafted include technical issues that could put safety and security at risk." - Text in the bill. "Which I've posted in my videos, over and over and over .... again is bullsh*t. That's not just me saying it's bullsh*t, that's the FTC saying it's bullsh*t in a 56 page report that was released last year that I've covered on this channel numerous times.... Everything they (NY State Ammended Bill) said about Safety and Security is bullsh*t, the manufacturers have not provided a single f*cking citation for how anything in this bill could harm the user safety or security." - Louis Rossmann

 

The Ammended Bill continued. Emphasis is mine and shows the crucial part.

Quote

"This agreement eliminates the bill's original requirement calling for OEMs to provide to the public: passwords, security codes, and materials to override security features and allows for Original Equipment Manufacturers to provide Assemblies of parts rather than individual components when the improper installation heightens the risk of injury."

 

Quote

"What does that mean? It's functionally useless.... Why do people come to us? Why do people come to this Store instead of the manufacturer? People come to us because when you have a bad $28 chip on your motherboard the manufacturer will tell you that what you need to do is to replace the $750 motherboard. The entire reason people come to us, the entire reason we have a business is because we will do the work to replace individual components rather than entire assemblies. That is the point.... " - Louis Rossmann.

 

My thoughts

This is quite unfortunate and I sympathise with New York State residents. I hope Louis' fears that the media will report this incorrectly is unfounded but I'm not sure it will be which is why I got the inspiration for the title from Louis' rant livestream that came afterwards. This is obviously a major blow to Louis sine he's been working on this for 7 to 7 and a half years (as he mentions later on in the video).

 

Sources

Credit to Louis Rossmann for coming up with the title of this Thread: 

 

Actual Original Source:

 

[mr moose]

How much did apple give to the governor to do that? 

 

 

 

[Drazil100]

This one change makes it so that this bill does effectively nothing. Manufacturers can get out of selling any individual component they want by saying "it's not safe" and can then charge you hundreds of dollars for say an entire assembled motherboard rather than selling you a $20 chip. 

 

If I wanted a safe repair I would go to the manufacturer or an authorized service provider regardless of the state of independent repair yet somehow manufacturers keep getting away with the safety argument every single time. Why is it that any Right to Repair push inevitably turns into "Let's protect the manufacturers from consumers improperly repairing their device"? Honestly I am not fighting for Right to Repair anymore. All I want just the Right to Screw Up cause apparently we aren't allowed to do anything if there is the slightest possibility unsafe.

 

Also can we get a proper source for this? I don't know how to find where this came from and Louis only linked an image from twitter.

[Alvin853]

Who gets to decide whether selling a certain part is safe/certain information is a security risk? I hope there's a system in place to take companies to court if they abuse those rules.

[AlTech]

6 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

Who gets to decide whether selling a certain part is safe/certain information is a security risk?

The companies.

6 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

I hope there's a system in place to take companies to court if they abuse those rules.

There isn't.

[Drazil100]

2 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

Who gets to decide whether selling a certain part is safe/certain information is a security risk? I hope there's a system in place to take companies to court if they abuse those rules.

By the time any sort of victory is won in court you are probably down way more money than you can actually afford to pay and will have spent far more time than it is worth. That’s kinda the whole point of why apple and whoever else is fighting Right to Repair allowed this to pass. 

[Kisai]

58 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How much did apple give to the governor to do that? 

 

 

 

I doubt that was Apple as, that's not the exempted category. Thinking about it, it sounds like it was probably a company that manufactures something in NY state. "Off road" is a bit too broad, but it basically means any vehicle that doesn't require pavement to be driven, which means everything from mountain bikes to excavation equipment. Then there is "motor vehicles" which is every vehicle not human or animal powered. So this feels like a lobby from a vehicle manufacturer.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

I doubt that was Apple as, that's not the exempted category.

Media outlets previously reported that it was Apple and Microsoft's lobbyists who were lobbying for this to bill to not be signed as it was originally written.

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Thinking about it, it sounds like it was probably a company that manufactures something in NY state. "Off road" is a bit too broad, but it basically means any vehicle that doesn't require pavement to be driven, which means everything from mountain bikes to excavation equipment. Then there is "motor vehicles" which is every vehicle not human or animal powered. So this feels like a lobby from a vehicle manufacturer.

Those were all the concessions originally in the passed bill in order to get the broadest support for tech right to repair. Louis explains in his video he was willing to concede those areas at the time because he wanted a higher chance of the main parts of tech Right To Repair to pass first and then go back and address those areas if successful with tech right to repair.

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, Drazil100 said:

This one change makes it so that this bill does effectively nothing. Manufacturers can get out of selling any individual component they want by saying "it's not safe" and can then charge you hundreds of dollars for say an entire assembled motherboard rather than selling you a $20 chip. 

 

If I wanted a safe repair I would go to the manufacturer or an authorized service provider regardless of the state of independent repair yet somehow manufacturers keep getting away with the safety argument every single time. Why is it that any Right to Repair push inevitably turns into "Let's protect the manufacturers from consumers improperly repairing their device"? Honestly I am not fighting for Right to Repair anymore. All I want just the Right to Screw Up cause apparently we aren't allowed to do anything if there is the slightest possibility unsafe.

Sadly yes.

1 hour ago, Drazil100 said:

Also can we get a proper source for this? I don't know how to find where this came from and Louis only linked an image from twitter.

I believe the New York State legislature website may have it.

[Drazil100]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I believe the New York State legislature website may have it.

I tried looking for it for my thread and I couldn’t find it. Maybe it isn’t on their website yet? 

[divito]

Quote

The bill as ammended after the Governor of New York refused to sign it as is, allows companies to refuse to provide individual parts or components if they deem it to be a safety or security hazard.

Yet, anyone can buy a car part and perform a dangerous repair without issue. 

[sub68]

2 hours ago, divito said:

Yet, anyone can buy a car part and perform a dangerous repair without issue

I find working on cars kinda easier 

[Senzelian]

2 hours ago, divito said:

Yet, anyone can buy a car part and perform a dangerous repair without issue. 

Not quite.

 

To be able to purchase original car parts, a mechanic might need to sign a contract with the manufacturer, dealer or distributor and some cars might require certain software to delete and read error codes, or to program certain car parts. If manufacturers were able to weld the wheels onto a car, they would.

 

Fortunately the used market for car parts is massive, which makes it relatively easy to get around some of these restrictions.

[TetraSky]

And this is just another reason why Lobbying should never be taken in consideration when coming up with new laws...

The vested interest will do anything to prevent something from passing that would hurt their bottom line.

[divito]

Just now, Senzelian said:

Not quite.

 

To be able to purchase original car parts, a mechanic might need to sign a contract with the manufacturer, dealer or distributor and some cars might require certain software to delete and read error codes, or to program certain car parts. If manufacturers were able to weld the wheels onto a car, they would.

For OEM parts, that might apply to getting them at a dealership (but even then, they aren't all that picky in my experience). 

But anyone can visit a scrap yard and purchase an OEM part without such contract. eBay has thousands of listings for OEM parts. And that's not to mention all the aftermarket parts. 

 

7 minutes ago, sub68 said:

I find working on cars kinda easier 

Easier mechanically, sure. I think it would be hard to argue that the level of risk for a novice is vastly different between the two though. 

[Senzelian]

2 minutes ago, divito said:

But anyone can visit a scrap yard and purchase an OEM part without such contract. eBay has thousands of listings for OEM parts. And that's not to mention all the aftermarket parts. 

Yeah I edited my post to include that shorty after I posted. I'm aware of that. But you could argue the same way for computer parts.  

[divito]

Just now, Senzelian said:

Yeah I edited my post to include that shorty after I posted. I'm aware of that. But you could argue the same way for computer parts.  

The point is more that the car industry had to make their parts, the schematics, etc.. available for repair purposes. Tech still doesn't have that distinction even though it's far safer, despite this "safety" nonsense that the bill allows.

[Senzelian]

8 minutes ago, divito said:

The point is more that the car industry had to make their parts, the schematics, etc.. available for repair purposes. Tech still doesn't have that distinction even though it's far safer, despite this "safety" nonsense that the bill allows.

Fair enough.

[Salv8 (sam)]

at least it got in in SOME capacity, take the wins that we can and re-group so we can try again with the knowledge we now know.

[Brooksie359]

11 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Media outlets previously reported that it was Apple and Microsoft's lobbyists who were lobbying for this to bill to not be signed as it was originally written.

Those were all the concessions originally in the passed bill in order to get the broadest support for tech right to repair. Louis explains in his video he was willing to concede those areas at the time because he wanted a higher chance of the main parts of tech Right To Repair to pass first and then go back and address those areas if successful with tech right to repair.

I am a bit confused as I would have expected with how large of support they have for the bill they could override the veto. I know the presidents veto can be overturned if they have over 2/3 of the house and senate so I would have assumed with how many votes they had they had more than enough to override a veto if there was some system in place to allow the override of a veto which I would assume they would have some otherwise they can just veto whatever they want with no real way to get around it. 

[Quackers101]

so yeah, when all the countries said "we want to reduce waste and make things better and stop climate change!".

then you get right to repair being nuked by the same places.

[mr moose]

16 hours ago, Senzelian said:

Not quite.

 

To be able to purchase original car parts, a mechanic might need to sign a contract with the manufacturer, dealer or distributor and some cars might require certain software to delete and read error codes, or to program certain car parts. If manufacturers were able to weld the wheels onto a car, they would.

 

Fortunately the used market for car parts is massive, which makes it relatively easy to get around some of these restrictions.

In Australia you can walk into any dealership and buy just about any part for any car.    I can't say definitively that this is the case as I haven't had to buy parts for a lot of new cars, but of all the cars I many friends have had to buy genuine parts for I have had no issues.   Plus there is nearly always at least 2 different  3rd party parts makers that will sell you what the dealers can't/won't/couldn't/whatever.    Hell, I even managed to buy an original ford upper radiator support panel (structural part of the front of the car that needs to be welded in as it holds the bumper, bonnet, lights and front guards) from the distributor direct.

 

20 hours ago, Kisai said:

I doubt that was Apple as, that's not the exempted category. Thinking about it, it sounds like it was probably a company that manufactures something in NY state. "Off road" is a bit too broad, but it basically means any vehicle that doesn't require pavement to be driven, which means everything from mountain bikes to excavation equipment. Then there is "motor vehicles" which is every vehicle not human or animal powered. So this feels like a lobby from a vehicle manufacturer.

Apple have been pushing so hard for this not to be a thing that they have done everything from lying and scam like proclamations to outright ludicrous claims of customer needs.  If they didn't have anything to do with this then I'll eat my hat, shit it out and eat it again.

 

Now I am not really into stringing together a whole series of coincidences to get a point across so take this with a grain of interesting salt, but you know apple are big in Ireland because Ireland gives them massive tax breaks (much to the ire of the EU),  well would it be too much if we discovered one of the NY governors biggest backers was a building in new york that just happened to house The Consulate General of Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and Tourism Ireland?    After Ireland gave apple a 13Bn prize for tax evasion and got the EU tax bill over turned.  You may ask what has this done for Ireland, well they  have apples head office for IP outside of the US and that is worth a not insignificant chunk of their GDP.

 

 

 

 

[Senzelian]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

In Australia you can walk into any dealership and buy just about any part for any car.    I can't say definitively that this is the case as I haven't had to buy parts for a lot of new cars, but of all the cars I many friends have had to buy genuine parts for I have had no issues.   Plus there is nearly always at least 2 different  3rd party parts makers that will sell you what the dealers can't/won't/couldn't/whatever.    Hell, I even managed to buy an original ford upper radiator support panel (structural part of the front of the car that needs to be welded in as it holds the bumper, bonnet, lights and front guards) from the distributor direct.

I meant in a business environment, as a mechanic. I should've probably specified that.

 

But yes you're right, you can usually get a variety of OEM parts directly from the dealer. Some of the German manufacturers here, such as Porsche, BMW and Audi are a little more strict than others I imagine.

[AlTech]

11 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I am a bit confused as I would have expected with how large of support they have for the bill they could override the veto. I know the presidents veto can be overturned if they have over 2/3 of the house and senate so I would have assumed with how many votes they had they had more than enough to override a veto if there was some system in place to allow the override of a veto which I would assume they would have some otherwise they can just veto whatever they want with no real way to get around it. 

The bill wasn't vetoed. The governor just refused to sign the bill and asked the legislature for changes. The legislature caved and gave the governor the changes she asked for.

[Zodiark1593]

15 hours ago, Salv8 (sam) said:

at least it got in in SOME capacity, take the wins that we can and re-group so we can try again with the knowledge we now know.

Ehh, I think I much prefer the Cave Johnson way of thinking here. 
 

Cave Johnson: "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with

these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?! I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that BURNS YOUR HOUSE DOWN!"