New EU rules for making batteries easier to remove and replace

[Kisai]

Summary

EU now proposing a new battery rules to make batteries easier to remove and replace.

 

Quotes

Quote

09-12-2022 - 17:32 

On Friday, Parliament and Council reached a provisional agreement to overhaul EU rules on batteries and take into account technological developments and future challenges.

The agreed rules will cover the entire battery life cycle, from design to end-of-life and apply to all types of batteries sold in the EU: portable batteries, SLI batteries (supplying power for starting, lighting or ignition of vehicles), light means of transport (LMT) batteries (providing power for the traction to wheeled vehicles such as electric scooters and bikes), electric vehicle (EV) batteries and industrial batteries.

 

Batteries to be easier to remove and replace, consumers better informed

 

Negotiators agreed on stronger requirements to make batteries more sustainable, performant and durable. According to the deal, a carbon footprint declaration and label will be obligatory for EV batteries, LMT batteries and rechargeable industrial batteries with a capacity above 2kWh.

 

Three and a half years after the entry into force of the legislation, portable batteries in appliances must be designed so that consumers can easily remove and replace them themselves.

 

My thoughts

 Given how much pull the Type-C charging rules caused globally, this might just be the thing to return "replacable batteries" to a lot of devices that pretty much get recycled or landfilled once the battery no longer holds a charge. Me, personally I wish to see a standard type-C PD battery, or at least a "battery module" that can take LiPo or whatever other battery chemistry comes along that speaks PD. 

 

Sources

 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IPR60614/batteries-deal-on-new-eu-rules-for-design-production-and-waste-treatment

https://battery2030.eu/research/roadmap/

[BiotechBen]

26 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Summary

EU now proposing a new battery rules to make batteries easier to remove and replace.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

 Given how much pull the Type-C charging rules caused globally, this might just be the thing to return "replacable batteries" to a lot of devices that pretty much get recycled or landfilled once the battery no longer holds a charge. Me, personally I wish to see a standard type-C PD battery, or at least a "battery module" that can take LiPo or whatever other battery chemistry comes along that speaks PD. 

 

Sources

 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IPR60614/batteries-deal-on-new-eu-rules-for-design-production-and-waste-treatment

https://battery2030.eu/research/roadmap/

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

[TempestCatto]

24 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

Maybe not removable like an old Nokia 3310. But at least making it easier to disassemble the device. Have parts easily available, standard bit sizes, charts/guides/instructions on taking it apart and putting it back together, a way to return the old battery or a designated place to drop it off for proper disposal - stuff like that. I suppose in this day and age, most people wouldn't think too much about replacing the battery any more though, and would simply opt to buy a new one. "Oh it's already almost 3 years old, I'll just upgrade!" I think the market has been permanently ruined in that way. No one is gonna want to go through the effort of sourcing, buying, and actually replacing the battery. Hell most people just live with a cracked screen these days. The exception to the rule are people like us, in forums like this, because we think of and are into these sorts of things.

[BiotechBen]

37 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

Maybe not removable like an old Nokia 3310. But at least making it easier to disassemble the device. Have parts easily available, standard bit sizes, charts/guides/instructions on taking it apart and putting it back together, a way to return the old battery or a designated place to drop it off for proper disposal - stuff like that. I suppose in this day and age, most people wouldn't think too much about replacing the battery any more though, and would simply opt to buy a new one. "Oh it's already almost 3 years old, I'll just upgrade!" I think the market has been permanently ruined in that way. No one is gonna want to go through the effort of sourcing, buying, and actually replacing the battery. Hell most people just live with a cracked screen these days. The exception to the rule are people like us, in forums like this, because we think of and are into these sorts of things.

Hardware and software support is also an issue for non-apple, non-samsung, or 1+, it's a gamble whether you'll get 2+yrs. It really needs to get better, and I agree that the rampant consumerism has greatly harmed sustainability and service life.

[Gokul_P]

3 hours ago, BiotechBen said:

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

I don't believe EU is actually meaning that I think they are saying don't use Ton of glue like Samsung to hold the battery in place use screws and a metal bracket like old laptops. then there is no prying required to get the Battery out. also don't use software lock the internals like Apple. The removable battery's like early smartphones and feature phones is not really work with our current battery technology  

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, BiotechBen said:

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

From the parts I was able to find on it, it's addressing everything with batteries, from EV's to Industrial batteries, to small appliances and devices.

 

Like It's my hope that some kind of standard module (like how we have D/C/AA/AAA batteries) , so like a "standard 16Wh mobile phone battery", "standard 40Wh tablet battery" and "standard 95Wh laptop battery" are a thing, instead of each individual model having it's own proprietary battery capacity and dimensions. I would like to see a return to chonkier laptops that you can physically replace the battery by ejecting it. Basically tool-less battery removal and replacement when it's not a ruggedized device. These "thin and light" models are slightly easier to repair since there is less plastic you have to take apart, but they still overtly suck if if you have to remove the entire back plate full of security screws.

 

Besides that, there's plenty of much bigger devices such as electric bikes/scooters and quadcopter's drones that should have standard batteries, but largely just have a pile of 3.7v cells hooked together in non-standard arrangements. Heck, go back and look at Linus try to make a battery pack from individual cells, and largely failing at it:

 

We have "some standard" in regards to AA-like battery sizes for it, but that's not LiPo. Tesla batteries have nearly 1000 "cells" in them.

https://twitter.com/TroyTeslike/status/1512754534455681028

Now, I'm not that sure if a standard EV battery size would be viable, just on the basis that what fits and works in a car would not work for a light-duty truck, let alone a something like a box truck.

 

[vertigo220]

I used to hate when phones switched to built-in batteries, and missed my Galaxy S4 with its ability to swap the battery out and instantly be back to 100%. Then again, it needed that ability since I couldn't get through a single day on one battery. Now, with phones lasting a full day easily, and I typically go 3-4 days between charges, plus portable battery packs that can give them a quick boost, it's not necessary anymore, and I'd rather have the lighter weight, smaller size, and higher capacity afforded by the built-in design. Laptops, yeah, I would like to see more models with either quickly swappable batteries or at least add-on batteries. I've always wanted one with a small built-in battery and a large swappable one that could be changed out while the smaller one keeps it running.

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

Like It's my hope that some kind of standard module (like how we have D/C/AA/AAA batteries) , so like a "standard 16Wh mobile phone battery", "standard 40Wh tablet battery" and "standard 95Wh laptop battery" are a thing, instead of each individual model having it's own proprietary battery capacity and dimensions. I would like to see a return to chonkier laptops that you can physically replace the battery by ejecting it. Basically tool-less battery removal and replacement when it's not a ruggedized device. These "thin and light" models are slightly easier to repair since there is less plastic you have to take apart, but they still overtly suck if if you have to remove the entire back plate full of security screws.

 

Besides that, there's plenty of much bigger devices such as electric bikes/scooters and quadcopter's drones that should have standard batteries

 

One of the big benefits of LiPo is its ability to be made into any shape and size to make the most of the space available and have the battery capacity be as large as possible. Making a standard size would be terrible.

[mr moose]

I just can't stand how people argue over 0.5mm of phone thickness or 300grams of laptop weight when defending their glued in pieces of shit.  Like we get it, your an IT nerd that will likely develop a hernia looking at a P4000, but that doesn't mean we should be dozing hundreds of what can be perfectly serviceable devices into landfill because company X can't make enough money doing it any other way.

[jagdtigger]

9 hours ago, BiotechBen said:

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

You dont need reinforcements for an internal battery so that argument is pretty much busted....

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, vertigo220 said:

Then again, it needed that ability since I couldn't get through a single day on one battery.

My bs meter went off the charts

 

On the topic: YES PLEASE!

Make it happen now asap!

[Doobeedoo]

Would be neat. Also finally no more glass back garbage design. Such trash trend or whatever. Why would I want glass at back of my phone, so stupid.

Now a more decent charging minimum would be nice too. Some just slack with this.

[Kisai]

6 hours ago, vertigo220 said:

One of the big benefits of LiPo is its ability to be made into any shape and size to make the most of the space available and have the battery capacity be as large as possible. Making a standard size would be terrible.

Yet, your device goes to the landfill/shredder once it's 2 years old because they don't make batteries for it, even though it could have a serviceable life of 10 years.

 

Do you know what happens to clothing you toss in the "donation" bins? 90% of that gets landfilled or shipped to some other country and then it lands in their landfill. That is what "recycle" has been for the last 30 years. If you can't repair and reuse it, it gets sent somewhere else to be someone elses problem. Most domestic recycling of anything non-metal has been little more than a sham. So we should be focusing on repair and reuse. Which means stop making proprietary consumable parts.

 

The purpose of LiPo is not to fill every last void with battery (Which doesn't happen anyway, most LiPO batteries are rectangles and only vary in thickness, and lack any structural material or shielding to prevent the battery from swelling or catching fire.) The purpose of LiPo is to have batteries fit in devices that would otherwise not exist. There is no reason why a phone or a laptop has to be less than 10mm thick. Remember "bendgate" ? Most iPhones have been 7.5-7.8mm thick. Why even do this? Each model has it's own battery size. Why? And competing models are all 7.7mm or so. There is no reason why one battery can not be designed to fit all of them.

[vertigo220]

4 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

My bs meter went off the charts

Not sure why I would lie about this...It wasn't uncommon at the time for phones to not do well on battery. The Sony Xperia was known for having "excellent" battery life because it could last two days. And I worked deep inside a building which made my cell signal weak, which causes more drain than usual. Plus, I had lots of apps, and this was before Android got serious about battery management, so they were sucking it down. But I guess you can think it's BS if you want.

 

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Yet, your device goes to the landfill/shredder once it's 2 years old because they don't make batteries for it, even though it could have a serviceable life of 10 years.

 

Do you know what happens to clothing you toss in the "donation" bins? 90% of that gets landfilled or shipped to some other country and then it lands in their landfill. That is what "recycle" has been for the last 30 years. If you can't repair and reuse it, it gets sent somewhere else to be someone elses problem. Most domestic recycling of anything non-metal has been little more than a sham. So we should be focusing on repair and reuse. Which means stop making proprietary consumable parts.

 

The purpose of LiPo is not to fill every last void with battery (Which doesn't happen anyway, most LiPO batteries are rectangles and only vary in thickness, and lack any structural material or shielding to prevent the battery from swelling or catching fire.) The purpose of LiPo is to have batteries fit in devices that would otherwise not exist. There is no reason why a phone or a laptop has to be less than 10mm thick. Remember "bendgate" ? Most iPhones have been 7.5-7.8mm thick. Why even do this? Each model has it's own battery size. Why? And competing models are all 7.7mm or so. There is no reason why one battery can not be designed to fit all of them.

My devices don't. I have two older phones (6 and 7 years old) still in use and a several-year-old tablet, and they're all doing fine battery-wise. I replace them when they get too slow or break. The vast majority of people's devices' batteries still work just fine when they replace them, and many, many devices are trashed despite being able to still be used, if not as a phone then repurposed for something else. People don't typically replace their devices due to the battery, it's usually because either it's too slow, no longer receiving updates and therefore a security risk, or, most likely, because they just want something newer, especially with iPhones. The battery is a reason for device replacement, it's just not a significant one by any means.

 

I do agree the some devices are getting ridiculously slim, but if they can be slim and still have good enough battery life, I prefer it. I like my phone to be as light as possible. Same as laptops, since for me, they're for portability. If you don't want a super-portable laptop, there are plenty of larger, heavier options. But a SFF laptop is that way for people that want it small, so of course it's going to be small. That's why I'm a fan of external batteries, ideally ones that the laptop can dock into, so it can be small and light when needed, but have extra juice when needed. The simple fact is, everyone has different preferences, and there are plenty of people that don't want to lug around and hold a heavy, bulky device. And I say that as someone who used to feel strongly the way you do, and still do somewhat, but I also recognize batteries have improved and devices have become more efficient, and that after having a bulkier, heavier laptop, then a thinner, lighter one, both of which had similar battery life, that I much preferred the smaller one. Phone thickness isn't as significant, and I'd absolutely take an extra mm or two two get several more hours of battery life, but to a point and, again, not really needed as much anymore.

 

ETA: Also, I didn't say that was the purpose of LiPo, I said it was "[o]ne of the big benefits."

[Distinctly Average]

What about devices like Bluetooth earbuds, smart watches etc? The concentration seems to be on phones but surely thought needs to be given for all devices! Gone are the days when we could buy some £30 wired earphones from the supermarket and still get decent sound, now we are expected to pay 3-10* the price for disposable ones.

[suicidalfranco]

15 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

Bluetooth earbuds,

Ban them Lol

15 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

smart watches etc

If they can't make the battery replaceable as it is with their quartz siblings, ban hammer for them too

[suicidalfranco]

19 minutes ago, vertigo220 said:

Not sure why I would lie about this...It wasn't uncommon at the time for phones to not do well on battery. The Sony Xperia was known for having "excellent" battery life because it could last two days. And I worked deep inside a building which made my cell signal weak, which causes more drain than usual. Plus, I had lots of apps, and this was before Android got serious about battery management, so they were sucking it down. But I guess you can think it's BS if you want.

And yet my galaxy note 2 could last a full day and some, same for my V10 right now

[vertigo220]

16 minutes ago, Distinctly Average said:

What about devices like Bluetooth earbuds, smart watches etc? The concentration seems to be on phones but surely thought needs to be given for all devices! Gone are the days when we could buy some £30 wired earphones from the supermarket and still get decent sound, now we are expected to pay 3-10* the price for disposable ones.

I don't use that kind of stuff, but I thought there were still plenty of wired options. Anyways, the smaller the device, the harder to have a standard, because having such a large portion of your device taken up by something which you have no control over the shape and size limits the ability to design things. Also, how many people do you really think would keep using the same earbuds or smart watch 3-5 years after buying them if they could replace the battery/batteries vs just buying new. The problem is less the battery design and more consumerism. They should be replaceable, sure, but not necessarily standardized.

 

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

And yet my galaxy note 2 could last a full day and some, same for my V10 right now

So I guess I'm just making stuff up about my battery life then. Also, fascinating how your Note 2 and V10, with larger batteries (larger devices are known to get better battery life due to the larger battery size) did/do battery than my small phone with a small battery. Amazing how that works. Quite the coincidence, too, that you use both of those deep in a brick and metal building with weak signal just like I did. And have the same number and selection of apps. And are used in the same exact way. At least we can make apples to apples comparisons here to show that I'm full of sh**.

[suicidalfranco]

8 minutes ago, vertigo220 said:

So I guess I'm just making stuff up about my battery life then. Also, fascinating how your Note 2 and V10, with larger batteries (larger devices are known to get better battery life due to the larger battery size) did/do battery than my small phone with a small battery. Amazing how that works. Quite the coincidence, too, that you use both of those deep in a brick and metal building with weak signal just like I did. And have the same number and selection of apps. And are used in the same exact way. At least we can make apples to apples comparisons here to show that I'm full of sh**.

so removable battery is the reason why your phone lasts so little, not your use case, no, no, no.

larger phones yet, their battery have 1000mAh less than current phones on average. Still lasts a whole day, and always carry a second for when it eventually dies the day after. I'd rather put the battery to charge in a cradle than use my phone while it's tethered to something.

Use case: retro Emulation, WhatsApp, Youtube, Spotify, Firefox. Screen on time generally sits between 4 and 5 hours.

 

[Quackers101]

glued/sticky batteries can be "fine" and can be "removable".

if they can be swapped, not breaking device or breaking the battery.

UK when they left EU

some nice awareness, hot places dont make your devices hot and catch fire, maybe windows awake/sleep feature will help your battery life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nz5ijXcckI

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Quackers101

[Distinctly Average]

1 hour ago, vertigo220 said:

I don't use that kind of stuff, but I thought there were still plenty of wired options. Anyways, the smaller the device, the harder to have a standard, because having such a large portion of your device taken up by something which you have no control over the shape and size limits the ability to design things. Also, how many people do you really think would keep using the same earbuds or smart watch 3-5 years after buying them if they could replace the battery/batteries vs just buying new. The problem is less the battery design and more consumerism. They should be replaceable, sure, but not necessarily standardized.

I agree, standards here would severely hinder design. Yes, replaceable is what should happen.

1 hour ago, vertigo220 said:

 

So I guess I'm just making stuff up about my battery life then. Also, fascinating how your Note 2 and V10, with larger batteries (larger devices are known to get better battery life due to the larger battery size) did/do battery than my small phone with a small battery. Amazing how that works. Quite the coincidence, too, that you use both of those deep in a brick and metal building with weak signal just like I did. And have the same number and selection of apps. And are used in the same exact way. At least we can make apples to apples comparisons here to show that I'm full of sh**.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quackers101]

7 hours ago, vertigo220 said:

The problem is less the battery design and more consumerism. They should be replaceable, sure, but not necessarily standardized.

yeah, really dont get why some devices have their own section for batteries but "forgets" any way to deal with it.

So why can't it be removable or able to be swapped without destroying the device??

[Brooksie359]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, TempestCatto said:

Maybe not removable like an old Nokia 3310. But at least making it easier to disassemble the device. Have parts easily available, standard bit sizes, charts/guides/instructions on taking it apart and putting it back together, a way to return the old battery or a designated place to drop it off for proper disposal - stuff like that. I suppose in this day and age, most people wouldn't think too much about replacing the battery any more though, and would simply opt to buy a new one. "Oh it's already almost 3 years old, I'll just upgrade!" I think the market has been permanently ruined in that way. No one is gonna want to go through the effort of sourcing, buying, and actually replacing the battery. Hell most people just live with a cracked screen these days. The exception to the rule are people like us, in forums like this, because we think of and are into these sorts of things.

I would say the exception is some people on this forum as I would imagine there are still plenty of people on this forum who simply buy a new phone when the battery is dead. Especially if you have a high disposable income and money isn't an issue. 

[wanderingfool2]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:05 PM, BiotechBen said:

Easily Removable batteries are not going to be making a comeback in mainstream consumer mobile devices, there's so much wasted space by the reinforcement and packaging that it renders them more expensive for less capacity.

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer having a slightly thicker phone.  The reason I purchase a case isn't because I need the protection, but because it doesn't feel right being so thin.

 

For myself, I enjoyed the concept the LG G4 replaceable battery.  With that said, it wasn't really waterproof the G5 had better water resistance and didn't really require too much extra size to it.

 

I'm willing to trade having a waterproof phone for a water resistant phone that has a replaceable battery

[D13H4RD]

You know what? Good.

 

Even though I haven't cared for battery swapping in years, I'm absolutely tired of devices that basically just break if you just open it up in order to access stuff that you probably want to replace anyway, like the battery.

[D13H4RD]

14 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

so removable battery is the reason why your phone lasts so little, not your use case, no, no, no.

 

 

22 hours ago, vertigo220 said:

I used to hate when phones switched to built-in batteries, and missed my Galaxy S4 with its ability to swap the battery out and instantly be back to 100%. Then again, it needed that ability since I couldn't get through a single day on one battery.

Bruh? Man's literally said that his old S4 literally needed the ability to swap the battery easily because it would struggle to last the day due to his use case, so he needed a quick battery swap to get back to 100% in seconds.

 

I did not find a sentence where he attributed his weak battery to the fact that it is easily removable...