Plane and simple – EU to allow calls on flights

[Lightwreather]

Summary

Airline passengers in the European Union (EU) will soon be able to use their phones to full effect in the sky. The European Commission ruled airlines can provide 5G technology on board planes, alongside slower mobile data. This could mean flyers will no longer be required to put their phone on airplane mode - though the specifics of how it will be implemented are unclear. The deadline for member states to make the 5G frequency bands available for planes is 30 June 2023.

 

Quotes

Quote

Thierry Breton, EU Commissioner for the Internal Market, said the plan would "enable innovative services for people" and help European companies grow. "The sky is no longer a limit when it comes to possibilities offered by super-fast, high-capacity connectivity," he said.

The new system will be able to take advantage of the much faster download speeds provided by 5G, which according to mobile network EE can be over 100Mbps - enabling a film to be downloaded in just a few minutes.
Dai Whittingham, chief executive of the UK Flight Safety Committee, told the BBC that airplane mode was historically important due to a lack of knowledge about how mobile devices affect aircraft. "There was a concern they could interfere with automatic flight control systems," he said. "What has been found with experience is the risk of interference is very small. The recommendation has always been that once you are in flight, devices should be in in airplane mode."
But Mr Whittingham said this is not an issue in the UK and the EU.
"There is much less prospect of interference," he said, "We have a different set of frequencies for 5G, and there are lower power settings than those that have been allowed in the US.
"The travelling public wants 5G. The regulators will open up that possibility, but there will be steps that will be taken to ensure that whatever they do is safe."
The Civil Aviation Authority - the regulator responsible for the safety of aircraft within the UK - has been approached by the BBC for comment.

 

My thoughts

Personally, I'm not the guy who uses a phone, or online entertainment on an aircraft, but I understand that others do. So, to them I say, congrats, you might now be able to escape the confines of "slow" aircraft WiFi [in quotes because the speed is subject to the number of people using it and improvements in the technology] and use a 5G network (edit: that is probably provided by the aircraft), at least within Europe.

I doubt European airlines will be in any hurry to change their In-flight safety videos over this though.

 

Sources

BBC

[porina]

Erm, just where is the 5G signal going to come from? Gonna guess you're not connecting to ground stations directly. Does the aircraft provide the connection? How would costs work?

 

Also plebs like me still on a 4GB phone wont have access.

[PDifolco]

Another wishful thinking of EU bureaucrats, if even it  works airplane companies will charge absurd amounts for it

[Lightwreather]

16 minutes ago, porina said:

Erm, just where is the 5G signal going to come from? Gonna guess you're not connecting to ground stations directly. Does the aircraft provide the connection? How would costs work?

 

31 minutes ago, Lightwreather JfromN said:

airlines can provide 5G technology on board planes,

I take it to mean it's provided on board the aircraft. But again, specifics are pretty unclear.

Edited my thoughts to include that tidbit.

[porina]

9 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

You dont need 5G transmitters in a flying bus... wifi AP will do

5G does not have any special sauce over 4G in this scenario. So why are they specifically mentioning 5G?

I'd guess 5G is chosen due to the frequency ranges used, and also it is the forward looking standard. Don't want to put something older in just to replace it in a few years.

 

Wifi provides some functionality but I guess full mobile connection offers more flexibility, if your plan allows it. Also, why not both?

[Poinkachu]

I wonder if this rumor will be the cause passenger rate decline.
You know, peoples who are afraid their brain will be fried by 5g will avoid it like a plague.
 

[bcredeur97]

I thought the combination of starlink + wifi calling was going to solve this. Guess I was wrong. 

 

also inb4 people talking obnoxiously loud on the phone bothering everyone around them on planes.

[Dracarris]

yeah can we pls jam it in a way that voice calls in whatever flavor become impossible?

[Chiyawa]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:29 PM, PDifolco said:

Another wishful thinking of EU bureaucrats, if even it  works airplane companies will charge absurd amounts for it

Eh, what do those bureaucrats care? They pass this bill because they want to make calls when they're on flight. Even if the airline will charge them, it's not like they have to pay with their pocket money, right?

 

But, I do think that the airplane mode is a thing of the past. Last time, since our phone frequency may interfere with speakers, it's dangerous. Now, since we use a better frequency like 4G VoLTE, there are no interference observe because we use a different frequency that don't interfere with cockpit instruments. So I guess we should revise this rule and probably readjust. Still, to be on the safe side, eliminating all electronic interference during flight is probably still a valid concern.

 

If this feature exist, at least I can make a call to my mom when the plane is in an impending doom.

"Hello, mother? I'm going to die in... (signal lost)"

[aDoomGuy]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:29 PM, bcredeur97 said:

people talking obnoxiously loud on the phone bothering everyone around them on planes.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW??!

 

[williamcll]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:29 AM, bcredeur97 said:

I thought the combination of starlink + wifi calling was going to solve this. Guess I was wrong. 

 

also inb4 people talking obnoxiously loud on the phone bothering everyone around them on planes.

I'm fine with it if it keeps the kids quiet by getting them to watch cocomelon.

[Dracarris]

13 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

Now, since we use a better frequency like 4G VoLTE, there are no interference observe because we use a different frequency that don't interfere with cockpit instruments.

They never did interfere.

[ouroesa]

Oh joy! 8 hour flights with certain people constantly talking on the phone (the same people who talks on the phone in the  bathroom). Cant wait! Hope I get load of those speaker phone talkers too.  
Do we really need phonecalls on a plane? Data is good enough. Send a text if you really have to get in touch with someone. 

[Coaxialgamer]

I mean it makes sense: the FCC is the reason why people have to turn their devices off/in airplane mode on flights in the first place, not to NTSA, ICAO or any other aviation-centric body. This is about how the EU governs the radio spectrum over the european subcontinent.

 

The flyer in me is concerned about people placing abnoxiously long loud phone calls inflight, but realistically the cabin noise would make for a terrible calling experience anyway and most people would be using their cell connection for data, not calls.

I'm not entirely clear on how this would work though; i'd imagine ground-base cell towers can't reach 35000ft, so you'd have to go through the airline for access. If that's the case I expect most of them to charge through the nose for the privilege, but that the way the game is played.

[AlTech]

But why? Wi-Fi calling exist.

 

Yes ik not every mobile network allows it's customers to use Wi-Fi calling but just force mobile networks to turn the feature on for all customers and then implement Wi-Fi in airplanes at reasonable prices.

[suicidalfranco]

Welp there goes my only meaningful time to sleep during a work trip

[Senzelian]

They've chosen 5G for its frequency. The signal will be relayed by satellite to ground stations and will be sent out to clients via a pico-cell.

 

https://etno.eu/news/8-news/720-facts-5g-aviation-eu.html

[Zodiark1593]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:58 PM, Coaxialgamer said:

I mean it makes sense: the FCC is the reason why people have to turn their devices off/in airplane mode on flights in the first place, not to NTSA, ICAO or any other aviation-centric body. This is about how the EU governs the radio spectrum over the european subcontinent.

 

The flyer in me is concerned about people placing abnoxiously long loud phone calls inflight, but realistically the cabin noise would make for a terrible calling experience anyway and most people would be using their cell connection for data, not calls.

I'm not entirely clear on how this would work though; i'd imagine ground-base cell towers can't reach 35000ft, so you'd have to go through the airline for access. If that's the case I expect most of them to charge through the nose for the privilege, but that the way the game is played.

Airlines in the US have offered wifi services for quite a long time, since at least 2014 (at a quite expensive cost). So the merit of using Airplane mode or turning off devices for safety certainly doesn't hold water.

 

As for phone calls, some devices do allow for noise cancelling, so while the caller on the plane may need to turn up the volume (or use noise cancelling head/earphones), the other caller may not hear the cabin noise at all.

[Coaxialgamer]

3 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Airlines in the US have offered wifi services for quite a long time, since at least 2014 (at a quite expensive cost). So the merit of using Airplane mode or turning off devices for safety certainly doesn't hold water.

 

As for phone calls, some devices do allow for noise cancelling, so while the caller on the plane may need to turn up the volume (or use noise cancelling head/earphones), the other caller may not hear the cabin noise at all.

That's my point: having your phone on will not cause damage or disruption to your aircraft, no matter what popular culture may say. The FCC just doesn't want the million-odd people traveling daily (and more specifically, their phones) to constantly be broadcasting out network connection requests at ground-base cell networks.

I frankly don't see people using this to place phone calls en-masse. We certainly haven't seen it with on-board wifi either, and onboard phones have been available in aircraft for longer still at some airlines, assuming you had the means.

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

The weird thing is i could swear there were already people making phone calls on flights... and they also already long stopped telling people to put their phones into "airplane mode"... on most carriers at least (allitalia or however its called now did though) 

[Coaxialgamer]

50 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

The weird thing is i could swear there were already people making phone calls on flights... and they also already long stopped telling people to put their phones into "airplane mode"... on most carriers at least (allitalia or however its called now did though) 

Onboard wifi will let you do that, and even prior to that some carriers offered built-in phones within the seats to make calls (at exorbitant rates but I digress).

Most carriers I've flown on semi-recently (Air France, WOW, Iceland Air, AerLingus, United, Delta) did talk about airplane mode though

[Mark Kaine]

45 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Onboard wifi will let you do that, and even prior to that some carriers offered built-in phones within the seats to make calls (at exorbitant rates but I digress).

Most carriers I've flown on semi-recently (Air France, WOW, Iceland Air, AerLingus, United, Delta) did talk about airplane mode though

the thing is... those planes didn't have wifi (for the most part)  

u don't really get that for eu continental flight for 50 euros (there were also no booking options for wifi)

 

what my vague theory is: boing is fine with cellphones,  airbus is not (because that all italia was airbus, what a terrible plane , oof, never again) 

 

as for how... i think as long your over land and not too high (so most of the time) there might be reception from ground stations?

 

45 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Most carriers I've flown on semi-recently (Air France, WOW, Iceland Air, AerLingus, United, Delta) did talk about airplane mode though

i only fly air berlin/eurowings, only went with all italia last time because it was pretty much the only reasonable option (and air berlin/eurowings didn't offer a flight to that destination,  weirdly enough) 

[Lightwreather]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

The weird thing is i could swear there were already people making phone calls on flights... and they also already long stopped telling people to put their phones into "airplane mode"... on most carriers at least

On every Middle Eastern airline, airplane was still a thing mentioned in the safety videos, though whether this was enforced is another question entirely.

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

allitalia or however its called now did though

I believe its ITA, though iirc it is technically a different airline just that it inherited the aircraft flown by Alitalia, 

Edit:Checked wikipedia, turns out Alitalia was bought by the Italian government and reorganised during the pandemic and rebranded as ITA

[Mark Kaine]

37 minutes ago, Lightwreather JfromN said:

On every Middle Eastern airline, airplane was still a thing mentioned in the safety videos, though whether this was enforced is another question entirely.

hehe... yeah, i bet at least air berlin gave totally up on it (or it really depends on aircraft models) 

 

37 minutes ago, Lightwreather JfromN said:

Edit:Checked wikipedia, turns out Alitalia was bought by the Italian government and reorganised during the pandemic and rebranded as ITA

yeah... ITA, dumb name imo, they also all still had alitalia written on the planes... they were also doing these "safety instructions " which i haven't seen on other flights in a long time, at least not this lengthy lol...

 

ps: just to be clear these flights are all short flights, 50 minutes or so and the planes do not have lcd screens or "phones" etc and generally nobody respects any rules it seems... (my last air berlin flight didn't even have working seatbelts, cause who needs those anyway ) 

 

edit: i can definitely vouch for the *free* sandwiches though!  (why i go with airberlin / eurowings!) : D

 

 

** you need to book a seat or they are not free. : p

 

 

[Norrels]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:47 AM, AluminiumTech said:

But why? Wi-Fi calling exist.

 

Yes ik not every mobile network allows it's customers to use Wi-Fi calling but just force mobile networks to turn the feature on for all customers and then implement Wi-Fi in airplanes at reasonable prices.

I would guess this has to do with security. All phones being on same WLAN doesn't sound very secure. At least in Finland usage of open WLAN is highly discouraged, there was big news not long ago and outcry when some government assistant revealed she used public WLAN like how that can even by and why on Earth would someone take such security risk and how incompetent some people are on security matters.

I haven't even seen anywhere any adverts or such for public WLAN althrough as remnants of the past from 10-15 years ago they still do exist in some malls.

 

After all everyone here has basically unlimited fast data anyway (at least in Nordics, Central and Eastern Europe, Mediterranean countries and Germany might lag behind as usual) and their own connection so why not. Using WLAN, or Wi-Fi as it is branded, on the go is thing of mid 00s here.