Building a PC Should Be By Needs And Not By Budget. Wrong?

[NetanelC]

Looking into getting a gaming computer and as a guy that likes to research and understand what I own I tried looking into the different companies, differences between models and what not. 
Of course, I got hit with a tone of knowledge and way too many models to choose from. So I asked for help. 
But

How is that helping when a hundred people can give me a hundred different setups? Am I suppose to randomly and blindly (remember I know almost nothing about this world)? Also, don’t forget that each of these setups is being roasted by the others who think there is a better setup. 
The process is far from perfect and for that amount of knowledge and actual pure data there is I don’t see why it shouldn’t be.

 

Building A PC Should Be By Needs And Not By Budget.

Everyone has specific needs from their setup and those needs are pushed ahead or get lowered depends on the budget. It’s still just needs. With computer companies releasing so many models that are barely different but different in a specific way to fit a specific need then it’s a perfect recipe for a perfect fit.

If I want a gaming computer for specific games that can deliver them in 2k, steady 100fps,  gets hot but not too hot to deliver, 1TB storage then it really doesn’t matter if my budget is 10k$, I won’t spend as much because I compromised on resolution, I don’t need 300fps, I don’t need it be ice cold, and I don’t need a storage server.  
 

The data is out there. People are testing their PC and uploading it, companies are releasing stats for their products and games are very clear on requirements. 
There should be a database where you choose the specific activities you will do with specific programs and games, resolution, desired fps and whatever else I’m missing and that will provide no more than a few options. And those option are the only ones to your specific needs and that is it.

 

[jaslion]

Thing is that building by budhudget is far far far easier than by specific performance for that one game.

 

Like fornite 1080 60fps. I know a 600$ pc can easily do that. Same with a 800$ unit but if the person has 800$ to spend and can get some seriously better hardware compared to the 600$ pc that will make itnlast far far far longer its better to simply spend the money.

 

If a person has a 2000$ budget butbhas the same fortnite requirements we can tell em that they simply dont need to spend that money and provide an alternative.

 

As for forum recommended setups if you know basically nothing get the one people upvote the most BUT always read the others too. If you see same or very similar items appear you know that thosr are basically a sure fire way. It also hrlps that here you can see a persons post and positive answers. So a person with 10k posts and 1k positive answers commenting on someone with 1k posts and 50 answwers saying these things can be optimized or these things actually have something wrong with them get this kinda has a more trustworthy opinion.

 

Its why when you ask for a build having multiple answers is always welcome.

 

You can also see who likes thr stuff here so if the person of build 1 likes person 2s build and person 4s build that means its at least as good as their or if person 2 and 4 say theirs is better person 1 agrees so you ignore their system and look who gets more interaction of those 2.

 

 

You simply wont get a proper database either as there are far too many same but different parts. You can get a general recommendation like oh you need at least a gtx 1650 16gb cl16 3200mhz and a i3 12100. But then depending on what yout goals are or current sales a i3 12100f + rx6600 suddenly gets in budget. Or you find a local deal and things shift entirely and you now have a ryzen 5600 for 120$ available.

 

So whilst it can be a guideline for what you should look at asking is still not a bad idea

 

[manikyath]

yes and no.

 

yes.. you should buy what suits your usecase the best, but more often than not that exact usecase gets determined by the funds you have available.

 

i'd love to get an RTX 4080 and two 43" 4K panels and max out all the settings in all the games... but that's just not in the books. 

[PineyCreek]

If you have the budget, you can build by desires as well, not necessarily needs.  I mean, no one needs an expensive hypercar.  Doesn't stop people from buying them.

[starsmine]

What people need in gaming to run is only a 400 dollar IGP that can do 720p.

Everything else is just gravy and what you can get for that money which is why in terms of gaming and home use, it is budget based up to the limit where there are no significant improvements, but even then, you start talking about making it an art piece of some type. You say "I need z game to run at 100fps at 2k". well, thats unlikely to be the ONLY game or piece of software you need. Eventually you will change your monitor to either a faster refresh rate, or higher screen size, your game gets patched in a way the decreases performance for extra graphics, or whatever.

Professional PC are a different beast with it being value in value out, your time is worth x, so you justify y amount of performance if it save you enough more time then x.

[Sauron]

Just because your budget is 10k doesn't mean people will recommend you spend that much, however if you don't say what your budget is people may recommend something that is above it. If your budget is a bit low you'll get recommendations that take it into account and try to compromise in areas that won't affect the performance too much.

[dizmo]

It only works like that sometimes. Gaming for instance. You can't say "I want to hit 60fps", unless you only play a handful of titles and don't plan on playing anything new. Some games are far more demanding than others, and you won't know how demanding new games will be. Thus, getting the best parts within your budget will help make sure you have the best system going forward. 

 

You also won't get away from having tons of selection. There's lots of companies. Things like motherboards have many models that all have similar features and just different designs. SSDs, tons of companies. So you're down to having 2 components that you can really narrow down; CPU and GPU. Even then, you're going to have more than a few choices of GPU. 

[NetanelC]

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it. 
It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation. 
Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

[starsmine]

23 minutes ago, NetanelC said:

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it. 
It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation. 
Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

https://www.logicalincrements.com/ Though I cant imagine buying only 8GB of ram for a 1000 dollar system. change parts as needed/availability in your area/sales.

[Holmes108]

Yeah, basically both need to be taken into consideration. But I personally think that budget is the place to start. Otherwise you waste time building a PC that's not even realistic to buy potentially. If someone is that unsavvy when it comes to PC, maybe they want a gaming PC with a $300 budget. That will waste everyone's (including the buyers) time.

 

Start with the best parts your budget can buy (I understand "best parts" can vary slightly depending on the needs, but in general you can pick "best"), and then see if it meets your needs at all. If so, then start tweaking. 

[Poinkachu]

4 minutes ago, NetanelC said:

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it. 
It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation. 
Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

The reason why I love PC = Flexibility.
A decent gaming rig pretty much can do a whole lot of other stuffs well.

Hence why in this forum usually we ask for their budget, with additional notes, which is "their need".
We'd ask what the PC going to be used for mainly, and see if the one asking put up some special request about something.

Feel free to just make a post in New Builds & Planning subforum here. If you don't care about flair, just say so in the post.

you can ask around a bit about the parts chosen for you, it won't be the first time we answer that kinda stuffs too.
 

Based on what you said so far, IMHO you are trying to be an expert in a week. And frustation starting to kick in.
Lots of people in this forum spent years building PC, repairing it, or atleast following and learning about the tech.

A lot of information is good yeah, but only if you know how to properly filter it and process it. We can give someone a lot of mathematical formula, it'd be useless if the person doesn't even know whether to do multiplication or addition first.

We've all been there, done that though. Gotta learn to walk before one can run proper.
 

Idk what rating system you meant, must be from some ionno what website. Here we don't give advice on builds based on let's say "Which looks better" unless the one asking prefer it that way. We look at reviews, benchmarks, personal experience, logic based on accumulated knowledge etc. We look at rating sometimes yeah, but only if its done well & fair, and about crucial stuffs, like VRM capabilities.

 

Am I saying this forum is the best? no. But based on my personal experience at the very least in this forum (at the very least) the veterans have enough self-respect to give a proper answer & doesn't bash other people's advice just for the heck of it.

[thrasher_565]

53 minutes ago, NetanelC said:

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it. 
It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation. 
Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

so that would be trying to be "cool" build like using an 011 d and hard line tubing. people are people and want to belong some ware and here people can show off there stuff. alot of it is unnecessarily. but people also dont just build for game now there hoping there be better more demanding games later on... or sapos too thow aaa games sucks nuts... not are fault that misconstructions are more imported then game play...   

 

another thing is there more and more people that have jobs with there pcs so they buy the best stuff because it save them time witch is moeny...

[wasab]

the difference between what you need and what you want is what your budget can afford. 

[wseaton]

There's no spreadsheet in regards to enthusiast builds. You shove as much GPU as you can afford in it. 

[cmndr]

I'd generally agree with that. 

1. Determine use case

2. Determine expected lifespan

3. Determine budget

4. optimize across tradeoffs (including upgrade cadence). 

 

 

  

5 hours ago, wasab said:

the difference between what you need and what you want is what your budget can afford. 

What I need for my 10-30 year old low demand video games that run just fine on my phone, tablet and steamdeck... iGPU
What I want... 4090, just in case I feel like something newer @4K

[whm1974]

22 minutes ago, cmndr said:

I'd generally agree with that. 

1. Determine use case

2. Determine expected lifespan

3. Determine budget

4. optimize across tradeoffs (including upgrade cadence).

1. Each gamer plays a different grouping of games. To each their own.

2. I advise to build to last. You could be using the Rig longer then thought.

3. By all means get what is affordable, but see #2.

4. Yes always be balanced, and include planned updates.

[Neroon]

Most needs change.

 

If someone asks me for advice for a laptop for like some browsing etc, I will keep asking questions, and usually they do want more, they do want to explore things they haven't yet. And that's already at the moment they want to purchase it.

 

Down the line people likely want to do more or something newer. Like with a gaming machine, sure you will get your 120FPS with whatever game you play today, but what about 2 years down the line, what about 5?

 

So a lot is about anticipating what you will need and buy that.

 

That said, budget is still absolutely relevant. We all have a number in our head, and that number can get stretched by like 25%, but after that it becomes to feel uncomfortable. Now if you got plenty of money, you might not care, but most people do, so even though someone might want 120 FPS maxed out in the latest CoD, they might find out that this requires a very expensive PC, and they will change their thoughts on that and accept less.

 

Needs + Budget should always be the conversation.

[Thirdgen89GTA]

When people ask me to help them build a PC, I ask them two questions.

 

What do you want to do with it?

How much money do you have to spend?

 

Sometimes the answers to the questions do not align.

 

If the budget is more than enough to do what they want, I let them know and then focus on their priorities to fit within or below the budget.  I'll build a machine up and present a few options where the extra money in the budget can be used and what they'll get for it.

 

And thanks to the way the market changes, the answers to what parts to use 6 months from now will be different than what you'd use today.

[LogicalDrm]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:07 PM, NetanelC said:

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it.

Accumulating knowledge takes time. I think it took me some 4 months to read up magazines to get some idea what to ask my mom to buy for us. Ofc, this was era with magazines which were coming in once a month too. But it was reading reviews and trying to get sense on what each part brought to whole concept. And bit of trusting the shop we bought the machine from to not oversell crap. Which they did do, but I did learn that years later.

 

On 11/21/2022 at 4:07 PM, NetanelC said:

It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation.

Then you could go for source directly. Look for prebuilds and boutique builds (=custom prebuild). Look at what different brands and stores offer for the money, compare that to what recommendations give you and then look at reviews that have those components on same graph.

 

Reading reviews (or watching them, but only couple channels do actually good reviews) is the key for all. You get graphs that compare performance and other specs and can give your own rating to parts there. Then you may already have list of stuff that may or may not be good and ask opinions on that. And most importantly, don't accept "Thats bad, this is better" for answer. Ask why people are recommending something.

 

On 11/21/2022 at 4:07 PM, NetanelC said:

Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

This is bit in conflict with your title question. There are people who need to have more flash and glory than brutal performance. Also, there's something known as "bang for the buck" which means you need to have both ends of discussion. Price and need. Buying just for need, if you are mainly looking at gaming, is never ending swamp. At that point, at worst, you are chasing numbers that don't mean anything. Price sets limit on what people can recommend. It helps to prevent absurd places to spend money. Like case and cooling. Of which first you can get for sub-$50 and be happy, and latter usually comes with the parts that need it. Buying for need with more specific needs like video/photo editing, 3D modeling and such is where the range of meaningful hardware is much narrower.

 

Overall, yes, its hard hobby to get in. More so in modern days. And if you want to do something right first time, it will take time and dedication. More than just couple of weeks.

[8tg]

The generalized standard for build information from communities like this one and others is the most popular norm, which is price to performance and value first, as most people don’t really go the other way around with a build.

They have a budget, what’s the best they can get for it?

This presents a problem which is anyone going against that common norm really needs to specify early on what their goals are. And then the worst way that’s handled in a lot of places is not advising based on that.

Its why I dipped out of a lot of pc discords and then discord entirely because they all have this flaw.

 

Say you want a 1tb nvme ssd. You’re going to be recommended a Kingston NV or team MP of some variety, if you post a Samsung or crucial nvme ssd you’re going to be ostracized immediately because they’re more expensive relative to their performance even if they’re better SSDs, maybe dubiously so after a certain point like an SK Hynix P41 but if you’re looking for the better SSDs you’re looking at fairly expensive drives.

 

”the meta” gets so defined every few generations that it becomes almost a stereotype for boring builds.

ie a few years ago, Ryzen 5 3600, B450 Tomahawk Max, 212 evo, Corsair vengeance LPX at 3600mhz (even if 3200 was better for Ryzen), whatever the case flavor of the day was but oddly it was usually the NZXT H510, and then a 5700 XT or 2070 super.

Right now it’s the i5 12400F on a gigabyte B660 DS3H with siliconpower ddr4, Deepcool ak400, etc I think everyone’s seen this build and it’s lame, it’s minmaxing.

 

If you’re gonna go for a build that’s for other than value you gotta bring that to the right community and state it from the start, because otherwise you’re gonna get that exact i5 12400 build. 
It’s not acceptable to just want something because it’s better even if it’s poor value.

Buy a 13900K, it’s absolutely overkill for anything out there today in the pc gaming world, get harassed over it endlessly.

Recommending AM5 right now is enough to get you banned from a lot of places which is hilarious.

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, 8tg said:

This presents a problem which is anyone going against that common norm really needs to specify early on what their goals are. And then the worst way that’s handled in a lot of places is not advising based on that.

It's a norm and people want to stick to it almost to a fault. Look at how often "Wasted budget" or "wasted money on xxx color(usually white)" or anything along those lines are used here. 

Usually when I get involved in parts lists for something like an all white build, I'll stick to the all white, but then on the side make a list with a little less white on the motherboard, a lot less white on the graphics card and show that you can usually step up a tier or two in graphics card just on that. 

[setsakara]

For me I am on a tight budget, so this kind of thing is very tricky. I try to get things that will last be a long time, so for example i'm looking at a DDR5 6000MHz kit, an RX6700XT, and a 13600K. For what I am doing, all I need is a GTX 1070, 3200MHz ram, and a 9700, but for the long shot its worth it (hopefully)

[Kilrah]

If you're on a tight budget I wouldn't recommend planning for "last a long time", but for "until you expect to have a better budget".

 

You can go "long time" but that basically means buying top of the line (or one step down) now and that comes at a premium. With limited budget you're usually better off with incremental upgrades even if that means paying a bit more overall long term.

 

Figuring out your setup can be from easy to hardcore depending on your desire for optimization. Personally I'd start with CPU and GPU as that somewhat limits choice a bit already, but things e.g. motherboard If I were to choose one with my level of "pickyness" I'd need to go hardcore and spend a whole day opening the sites of all major mobo manufacturers, opening tabs for each mobo that supports the CPU I want (you're at 20-30 tabs already) and start looking at what features I want... open another window where I check local stores for each of them to see pricing, and slowly work things out to one based on "need" vs "want" and "I'd like this but don't really need it and the only option costs twice as much as one that doesn't so nope"...

[mr moose]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:07 AM, NetanelC said:

It’s just that I’ve been sitting on this for a week now, spending hours each day on different forums, reading articles on different components and it seems that I’m going backwards and the more I go into it I understand less of it. 
It just feels weird to blindly spend more than 1k$ based on some random recommendation. 
Another issue is the rating system. People upvote “cool-looking” systems rather than good ones or only the crazy expensive rigs will get notice. There is no definitive post that I’ve seen that got a lot of traction and upvotes for a good mid-range pc. 

I know that feeling.  It's driven by fear of wasting your money on something your not happy with and compounded by the time it takes to get the detailed information you need to make that discussion. 

 

My advice is to look closely at the reason people give for their recommendations.  If it's because of features that you don't need then you can ignore that recommendation, if it is based on reliability or some other factor that makes sense and other people agree then give that response more credit.

 

Don't forget that half the internet is young kids who want to be experts in the field.  They just haven't had enough experience to know when their favorite youtuber is wrong yet.

 

 

 

 

[Sarra]

I used budget crap for years. Started out with an MX-200, and eventually moved "up" to a  FX5200, which was absolute garbage, low end Socket A stuff, just OCed it all to hell and back.

 

Then, my 550 TI fans died, and I went to replace it. I wanted to get a 960 (Maxwell was current gen), but the 3.5gig/4gig debacle was in full swing. I looked at a 970, but the same issue, it was a 3.5/4 gig card. So, I spent the extra money and bought a 980. It was on a small sale, but it blew my prior budget for GPU's by a wide margin.

 

I was so impressed with it, I used the card as a gaming card for 5 years. I mined on it. I did F@H on it. Thing is? It's still running, I still use it daily, but not for gaming, mining, or F@H anymore.

 

And from then on, I decided I don't want to put up with mediocre crap anymore. No more FX 5200 crap. Not going to get Titan level stuff, but a 6800XT works just fine, and I don't see myself replacing it in the coming future, it works more than good enough for me.

 

There's a point where budget doesn't really help you in the long term. I bought four FX 5200 cards, I'd OC them so hard that they would break. I could have taken the money I spent on the 5200's and gotten a 6600GT. Or 6800. Instead, I wasted it. And now, I'm not doing that anymore. Old hardware is great, but low end hardware becomes less useful more faster.

 

That, and I got into video rendering, so I ended up with a 5950X. Do I regret buying it? Hell no. I spent less on it than a 5900X MSRP, and it was brand new. Do I use it to it's maximum potential? Only when doing video rendering. Which I can't, because I'm out of storage space. XD