Windows 12 for 2024? Microsoft may switch back to a 3-year life cycle.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Car Airbags were available in the 50s, airbags were never an issue until mandated by law in the 80s.... Nobody ever needed to use Airbags. 

fTPM bug causing stuttering was a short term issue. Its fixed, its literally a non issue now. update your bios.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-410

This is partially why it wasnt mandated by the OS until windows 11, so manufactures could get all the bugs out, some slipped through, oh no, the horror.

As for replacing your OS when you swap out the motherboard that people are claiming, thats not really true, as again, my zen 1 laptop with mediocre support cause who fucking bought zen 1 laptops, mobo blew itself up and I just swapped the motherboard, and just reinstalled windows 10 edu that was on it from before key still works. Back up your data, hell unless you used bitlocker, you can do that backup after the motherboard kills itself, just plug in the old SSD/HDD into a different PC. Or even if you do use encryption, you just remember your password to decrypt it.
TPM 2.0 was on because its REQUIRED to on windows 10 with windows hello turned on. Thats literally how windows hello functions.

Car air bags.... oh don't let me get started on the recalls. 

 

Just like Windows Vista. Ms should have recalled that whole OS.

 

Example given. I digress

[GoodBytes]

15 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Fast boot times happened as far back as Windows XP, and that was done on spinners.

Huh? We are not talking about the same thing at all.

 

15 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

TPM was also available and NOBODY has ever needed to use TPM.

I guess buisnesses doesn't count in your world, but regardless, now you do.

 

15 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Secondly, not an issue for most users is super inaccurate. Gamers mostly, with a thread titled "fTPM causes stuttering" is very many, just in this forum alone.

Why it wasn't an issue for OEMs, inlcuding those using an AMD CPU, yet, some DIY mothebroard manufcaturers, magically has issues? I wonder if it involves actually testing their stuff, or you know, they already knew about the issue, but kept quite in the hope to save money from fixing it.

 

Good thing AMD steps in to help motheboard manufcature to fix the issue. Now, ut us up to these motherboard manufactures to update their shit and make it avail. to their affected boards... or you know... not do it, and like Android phone manufcature, push consumers to buy one of their newer boards. 

 

 

[GoodBytes]

27 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Car air bags.... oh don't let me get started on the recalls. 

 

Just like Windows Vista. Ms should have recalled that whole OS.

 

Example given. I digress

It is just your recent comment that gives this illusion, but it looks like you are facing buyer remorse. Based on your comments, it sounds like a PS5 would better fit your needs, over a PC.

 

I mean, you state and push the idea that you (and assume everyone else, or the majority) only game on their PCs...  dollar (or whatever currency) for game performance/experience is horrible in the PC space compared to a gaming console. Always has been. Only if you do more than gaming, is it actual of value. What I mean is that most people do more than gaming on their PC. Gaming is fun and all, I do play a lot of games myself, but people tend to have work, school or various hobbies that involve computers. They need a multi-purposed device... a PC. Those that don't, or aren't interested in investing in their system, opt for consoles. Consoles > PC Gaming in market share. 

 

Vista was solid. The issue was manufacturers going, essentially, "Oh you want Vista drivers? LOLz! Buy our new product that is the same as the one we just released 6 months earlier with a different paint job!!!!". It was sad to see that despite manufacturer claiming their hardware/peripheral would not work under Vista, force install the drivers via Device Manager, magically all works out. Right HP, Epson, Lexmark, Creative, and friends?

 

Not to mention that Nvidia was like "Oh.... Vista is out?! OOOOOHHHH!!! That is why Microsoft were sending us those Vista Release Candidate disks with a letter to test our shit and update our drivers!!!!!"....  "Oh, customers are complaining... Crap... Radeon doesn't have issues.... RUSH RELEASE THEM! Devs! You have until yesterday to get those drivers out!!!! QUICK!!!!!111 GET STRTED!!!"

 

 

Not to mention that Vista specs clearly state (recommended):

• Pixel Shader 2.0 is required (and one would assume, is able to do it with decent performance... but sure... it's not a requirement I guess, so you win there... I guess, Microsoft also assumed as such, and got faced by reality with "Technically it does support it... 1 frame... per... minute, LOLz!", as since Vista disaster, Microsoft requirement are significantly detailed for OEMs.
• 128MB of dedicated GPU memory
• 1GB of RAM (32-bit version)
• Oh look! I am looking at the box, and it also states TPM 1.2 for BitLocker... Like seriously... since 2006... you guess tell me that TPM is now a surprise?! The transition has already started. 

But yet, people don't follow, installed it on their shit XP system, or buys a 200$ HP laptop with extra bloat, or Intel integrated graphics, which, at the time, I remind you, just managed to do: DVD playback... and I remind you that... DVD resolution wasn't 720p.... it was 480p. It could not handle a desktop rendered by the GPU. It could not do transparency.

 

3 years later, yea, hardware catchup, manufacture failed to make money by pushing consumers to rebuy their new products, many lost customers (you guys remember Lexmark?... yea... was not their smartest moved back then), and now: "WOW! Look at this rebranded Vista called Windows 7! So much better". I recall Linus made a video comparing Vista to Win7, and while of course WIn7 had its share of improvements and new features, Vista still ran fine, as the driver issues were solved.

[starsmine]

25 minutes ago, Guest 5150 said:

Car air bags.... oh don't let me get started on the recalls. 

 

Just like Windows Vista. Ms should have recalled that whole OS.

 

Example given. I digress

Yet, they were safer regardless.

I should point out, I am STRONGLY against change for the sake of change and novelty. Im just flabbergasted at a forum about tech like this acting like actual Luddites about moving forward in terms of security for technology, dropping support for old tech (technical debt), and the attempt of developers to make a better system. 
Agile development like what they have done with windows 7,8, and 10 is great and all, but watershed has its strengths, 3 year major lifecycle changes allows MS use the strengths of watershed with the strengths of agile combined.

Part of why windows 10 control panel is so whack is because agile shifts priorities so much and unfinished products are pushed out to never be addressed later on.

That you think windows vista was so bad it needs to be recalled also is weird, the issues with vista are just largely from people installing it on systems to slow for it. Vista put a stop to a lot of right escalation problems XP had.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-bloat-its-always-been-that-way/

Again, there are issues, there will always be issues, and those should be addressed by forums like this, such as telemetry phoning home all the time (half necessary due to the agile development, you need to always be getting feedback) but acting like luddites is a weird way to go about it.

[jagdtigger]

26 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I guess buisnesses doesn't count in your world, but regardless, now you do.

Then enforce it for business versions, but requiring it for home where it simply doesnt have any use-case is stupid....

[starsmine]

9 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Then enforce it for business versions, but requiring it for home where it simply doesnt have any use-case is stupid....

letting grandma log into her machine with biometrics is a use case.
preventing home users from getting many versions of root kits is a use case

limiting attack vectors for ransomware is a use case.

And you might argue, they will get rootkits/ransomeware anways.
Sure bud, use that windows XP machine online today.

Just because you can break a window to get into your house clearly means you shouldnt even bother getting a better deadbolt. /s

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

 manufacture failed to make money by pushing consumers to rebuy their new products,

You said it buddy. And so did I. That's what my original point was but without Long winded discussion telling me how I feel or what system I should use. Definitely a great example for the forums today.

 

 Can't make money without push of products. If TPM makes an OS more appealing for you to purchase, then yes, do that. 

 

[Chiyawa]

Huh, so Windows 12 is coming at 2014... Hmm...

 

I guess it is much better when they do something like Windows 7 or Windows XP, with Service Packs as major or feature updates.

 

But with that said, are they going to like force us to buy new key if we want to upgrade to a newer version of Windows?

[Giganthrax]

So, Windows 11 tanked that hard, huh?

[Franck]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:13 PM, GoodBytes said:

It is nice to see Microsoft returning to a 3-year update cycle.

I agree with this. All their other product are already on either 2 or 3 years cycle. Even .NET language now has a short cycle of 1 year followed by a LTS 3 years version. I wouldn't mind having LTS on all product line not just server grade software.

[DoctorNick]

I this really different from the past? Windows Vista to 7, Win 8, 8.1 to 10? Every 2nd windows is just a testing ground for the next major version.

[GoodBytes]

5 hours ago, DoctorNick said:

I this really different from the past? Windows Vista to 7, Win 8, 8.1 to 10? Every 2nd windows is just a testing ground for the next major version.

Well, that's it, it's a return to the old model, however now, as new features are done, they'll release it.

For example of the issue now, drag&drop on the task bar has been added a few months after Win 11 was released, but only Insiders have it all this time. General public have to wait until the end of the year, and suffer in the meantime.

[WolframaticAlpha]

>Makes OS half decent by 2024
>Throws away work for a new buggy mess
>enterprises and oems proceed to throw money at you

[meemz]

xd

[Elijah Kamski]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:17 AM, Middcore said:

 

Hard disagree.

+ infinity

[Jito463]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like MS only went to Windows 11 after Apple finally got off OSX and went to 11.  Then Apple goes to 12, and now MS is going to 12.  Coincidence?  Probably, but it's still funny to think about.

On 7/15/2022 at 9:50 PM, Blademaster91 said:

Except W11 is W10 with a worse start menu and a settings menu that requires more clicks to access things.

And the upgrade being free is nice, but Windows isn't free as you're paying for it with data and telemetry collection, and probably even more data being taken as MS wants you to sign in with an account.

There is a way, even in 11, to sign in with a local user account (even on Home edition).  Connect through ethernet (don't use WiFi) until you get to the sign in page, then disconnect and go back a page.  It's the same trick as with 10, but now you have to connect to the internet first.

On 7/16/2022 at 7:59 AM, GoodBytes said:

XP was criticised none stop for its unusable state, BSOD everywhere, and that Windows 2000 was a superior OS, despite the fact that XP WAS 2000 with a skin engine on top. The OS came out just 1 year after 2000. Both OS has identical updates, perfectly in sync for the longest time. Security and bug fixes. 

XP was actually faster overall, and I say that as one who preferred 2000.  It wasn't just a skin on top, there were some under the hood improvements.  There's a reason 2000 was NT 5.0, while XP was NT 5.1.

On 7/17/2022 at 12:57 PM, GoodBytes said:

TPM requirement is a none issue for most people. Microsoft has required OEMs that they include TPM 2.0 support.

I have less of an issue with TPM requirement, than I do with those same OEM's enabling Bitlocker by default on drives.  But only partially enabled, it upgrades to fully enabled once you sign in with the semi-mandatory MS account login.  We've had a few customers who lost data because their motherboards broke and we couldn't access their data on their partially Bitlockered drive.  Yes, the onus is on them to back up (which we tell them repeatedly), but it still shouldn't be something shipped that way from the factory.  It should be opt in, not disable afterwards.

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Coincidence? 

No they are scared that if their OS has a lesser number then people will think Apple is further ahead or some bullshit like that. By the time Windows 12 comes out MacOS 13 will be out. 

[GoodBytes]

18 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like MS only went to Windows 11 after Apple finally got off OSX and went to 11.  Then Apple goes to 12, and now MS is going to 12.  Coincidence?  Probably, but it's still funny to think about.

No. The Windows team was leaderless for years under a good portion of Windows 10 life, and the Windows team was separating and all working on their own thing without vision, reforming something similar to what has happened with Longhorn/Vista. Once the leader was finally selected, the aim was to clean up the mess, and bring Windows 10X UI/UX  (Actual Fluent Design... the thing that was promised ages ago, but never came to be during Win10 life) elements into Windows 10... forming Windows 11.

 

Windows 11 had its Start menu change (bringing Win10X one), and for Microsoft, a big change like this means a new version of Windows.

 

18 hours ago, Jito463 said:

XP was actually faster overall, and I say that as one who preferred 2000.  It wasn't just a skin on top, there were some under the hood improvements.  There's a reason 2000 was NT 5.0, while XP was NT 5.1.

Fine, Microsoft improved the boot loader and account loading process.

 

18 hours ago, Jito463 said:

I have less of an issue with TPM requirement, than I do with those same OEM's enabling Bitlocker by default on drives.  But only partially enabled, it upgrades to fully enabled once you sign in with the semi-mandatory MS account login.  We've had a few customers who lost data because their motherboards broke and we couldn't access their data on their partially Bitlockered drive.  Yes, the onus is on them to back up (which we tell them repeatedly), but it still shouldn't be something shipped that way from the factory.  It should be opt in, not disable afterwards.

On a local account, Windows basically annoys the user about making a backup copy of the recovery key. They refused (or the person who set the system for them) did so. So, it's their fault, or the idiot who set up the system for them. Next time, they should set up a Microsoft-link account so that the key is backed up in their account. Most likely, this is why Microsoft is forcing an MS account now, and shoving OneDrive backup on users. 

 

Considering that a local account was always hidden in a way, I strongly believe it is the person who set up the system for them. They are untimely the person responsible for your customers data loss.

 

I agree with the direction of Microsoft. The people who scream and worry about "Microsoft spying on them" should understand that if Microsoft cared about doing so, they can without you having an account with them. Your system is made out of a unique ID, it is an OS, and has access to the full memory stack of the system and CPU... it operates your... system... Hence the name. So, it can know what password you are typing in, what you do exactly with your system, which site you go (even if you use Tor web browser), what you do under your VPN and lots more. There is no secret that you hide from an OS. Impossible.

 

In addition, it gives users a place to safely download applications, the Store, which is growing with a full stack of applications. Gimp, VLC, Blender, Audacity, Paint.net, iTunes, Apple Cloud, WhatsApp, Firefox, Brave, Opera, Affinity, Discord, OBS Studio, Arduino IDE, LiquidText, Python, Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, IrfanView64, Inkscape, Concept, Crystal Disk Mark, FooBar2000, Plex... and more...

 

There is a good chance that, today, there are nearly all apps they need on the Store, regardless of the user. Chrome will always be the exception, but whatever, just use Edge or Brave or Firefox.

 

Anyways, I see no point in making a local account, beside maybe you want a custom profile name, and you'll join right after.

 

[WhitetailAni]

51 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Gimp, VLC, Blender, Audacity, Paint.net, iTunes, Apple Cloud, WhatsApp, Firefox, Brave, Opera, Affinity, Discord, OBS Studio, Arduino IDE, LiquidText, Python, Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, IrfanView64, Inkscape, Concept, Crystal Disk Mark, FooBar2000, Plex... and more...

Many of which have problems that their non-MS Store installed variants don't. Some applications are even paid in the MS Store but free from the dev's website.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

, it gives users a place to safely download applications

We already have that, its called the developers website..... The store is just a sad reminder about their dreams becoming a mobile and tablet OS developer and how they failed spectacularly......

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, FakeKGB said:

Many of which have problems that their non-MS Store installed variants don't. Some applications are even paid in the MS Store but free from the dev's website.

No, they don't, and are frequently updated as their official release. How do I know? 'cause I get them there.

The only "paid" app is Paint.net, which the creator states that it is for donation. You do it once for all your devices.

 

[GoodBytes]

45 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

We already have that, its called the developers website..... The store is just a sad reminder about their dreams becoming a mobile and tablet OS developer and how they failed spectacularly......

yea yea sure sure... and yet, people get crap and get adware, virus and malware...

People tend to really not  know where to get apps. 

[jagdtigger]

28 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

yea yea sure sure... and yet, people get crap and get adware, virus and malware...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-infiltrates-microsoft-store-via-clones-of-popular-games/

 

 

Keeping alive a store that literally no-one uses and shoving it down everyones throat aint a magical bullet against malware.....    Same thing can be said about their stupid stance of using an online account as login for an """os""".

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-infiltrates-microsoft-store-via-clones-of-popular-games/

 

 

Keeping alive a store that literally no-one uses and shoving it down everyones throat aint a magical bullet against malware.....    Same thing can be said about their stupid stance of using an online account as login for an """os""".

Please, even Adobe own website got compromised ages ago. If you want to play that game, fine. why update anything? You have vulnerability on the latest and greatest Linux and it's many distros. Heck even CPUs have security issues...

 

You are being ridiculous, right now.

 

The Store is definitely more safe than sites with 20 download buttons, or confusing third party distribution sites with will make the user dumb search online, click on anything and get it, and hope that no additional... surprises are included (crapware to malware)

[Ultraforce]

8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

In addition, it gives users a place to safely download applications, the Store, which is growing with a full stack of applications. Gimp, VLC, Blender, Audacity, Paint.net, iTunes, Apple Cloud, WhatsApp, Firefox, Brave, Opera, Affinity, Discord, OBS Studio, Arduino IDE, LiquidText, Python, Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, IrfanView64, Inkscape, Concept, Crystal Disk Mark, FooBar2000, Plex... and more...

 

There is a good chance that, today, there are nearly all apps they need on the Store, regardless of the user. Chrome will always be the exception, but whatever, just use Edge or Brave or Firefox.

 

I might just be unlucky but I've had issues with MS Store versions of a bunch of those and find that winget is just better and more reliable and personally I feel like a GUI for winget would be better.