Denmark bans chrome books from schools.

[DeerDK]

 

 

Summary

 Danish authorities bans the use of Chromebook in public schools, due to the potential risks of US authorities gathering data - in conflict with EU data protection laws. 

 

Quotes

Quote

 Translated and paraphrased from Danish: "... The concrete case is from Helsingør Municipality, but Datatilsynet (Data protection agency red.) makes it clear that all municipalities that use the Chromebook as educational platform should stop using them as part of the education... Chairwoman of the teachers association in Helsingør, Merete Svalgaard Knuhtsen, is in heavy doubt about what to do when the pupils return from summer vacation... It wouldn't be a problem to return to the books for a length of time... But we don't have the books anymore, nor the blackboards. Its all digital... "

 

My thoughts

Its interesting to see a growing conflict between the tech giants, the spy agencies and the consumer/data protection laws. Removing Chromebook as a platform for schools is a major disruption. 

I also made me think of Linus' perils in getting a Chromebook for his kids for school. 

 

Sources

 https://politiken.dk/viden/art8882501/Lærere-står-med-»kæmpestort-problem«-Chromebooks-bliver-forbudt-på-danske-skoler

 

Edit, found an English article as well. 

https://blog.simpleanalytics.com/denmark-bans-google-workspace-for-municipalities

Edited July 15, 2022 by DeerDK
Additional source in English

[Vishera]

Just now, DeerDK said:

due to the potential risks of US authorities gathering data - in conflict with EU data protection laws. 

Same issue with Windows and MacOS.

 

Just install Linux on those Chromebooks.

[rockking1379]

My local district uses chrome books too. And I wish I could just provide them with a laptop that was actually useable. Although our district lets the kids keep them if you pay the tech fee for 4 years. My oldest just got through her first one. 

[TetraSky]

Soon every countries will have their own hardware and software just for them. Because none of them can trust one another, for good reason because they DO spy on one another. If it's not China, it's Russia, the US or some other country.

[DeerDK]

13 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Same issue with Windows and MacOS.

 

Just install Linux on those Chromebooks.

I figure it kinda defeats the purpose of the platform? 

[Vishera]

2 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Soon every countries will have their own hardware and software just for them. Because none of them can trust one another, for good reason because they DO spy on one another. If it's not China, it's Russia, the US or some other country.

The issue here is mass surveillance - Spying on innocent people who are not suspected of any crime and are not known criminals.

 

  

Just now, DeerDK said:

I figure it kinda defeats the purpose of the platform? 

True...

They can try forking Android and cleaning it up.

 

Other than that i don't see other safe options.

[DeerDK]

2 minutes ago, Vishera said:

The issue here is mass surveillance - Spying on innocent people who are not suspected of any crime and are not known criminals.

 

  

True...

They can try forking Android and cleaning it up.

 

Other than that i don't see other safe options.

Nah, i agree. Not if they want a closed eco system. The article also mentions that it is a rather harsh interpretation of GDPR as the class rooster from a Danish 6th grade hardly has any relevance in international politics, but that's the path they went with. 

[DrMacintosh]

EU regulators making it so kids can't have affordable access to technology that actually makes their schooling better. Does the EU have the same stance about all electronics, like an iPad or a Windows desktop in a coding class? Because if so you're basically forcing everyone back to pen and paper in an increasingly digital age. 

[DeerDK]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

EU regulators making it so kids can't have affordable access to technology that actually makes their schooling better. Does the EU have the same stance about all electronics, like an iPad or a Windows desktop in a coding class? Because if so you're basically forcing everyone back to pen and paper in an increasingly digital age. 

I need to correct you there. Danish authorities made this decision. EU regulation is about protecting personal data, how the countries implement it is not as directly ruled by the EU.

But yes, there is a conflict there, between access to tech and tech accessing our data.

[OhioYJ]

12 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

EU regulators making it so kids can't have affordable access to technology that actually makes their schooling better. Does the EU have the same stance about all electronics, like an iPad or a Windows desktop in a coding class? Because if so you're basically forcing everyone back to pen and paper in an increasingly digital age. 

Some things seem to indicate kids learn and retain information better from print and using paper anyways? I'll almost argue does a Chromebook help kids learn technology? As I've seen many kids have them that will struggle to use an actual PC.

[DrMacintosh]

17 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

As I've seen many kids have them that will struggle to use an actual PC.

I'm not talking about trying to teach kids how to build their own PC and sing praise to x86. I'm talking about kids having basic digital literacy by using technology from a young age to help them. 

[DrMacintosh]

19 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

Some things seem to indicate kids learn and retain information better from print and using paper anyways?

Physically writing information can help with memory, there is no difference in reading a book on paper vs through a screen. That's why things like the iPad and Apple Pencil exist, you get the benefits of technology without the drawback of losing the ability to physically write. 

[OhioYJ]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

I'm not talking about trying to teach kids how to build their own PC and sing praise to x86. I'm talking about kids having basic digital literacy by using technology from a young age to help them. 

I don't mean building PCs. Kids will figure out surfing the internet. A chrome book though doesn't help them figure out filesystems and other softwares that are actually used in the business world. A common one I see is kids will download a file or save one and can't find it when working on a PC.  

 

My main concern is it's not teaching them technology if you leave them on these. Maybe as an introduction, but at some point they need to move to a laptop to understand how PCs work. 

[LAwLz]

30 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

I don't mean building PCs. Kids will figure out surfing the internet. A chrome book though doesn't help them figure out filesystems and other softwares that are actually used in the business world. A common one I see is kids will download a file or save one and can't find it when working on a PC.  

 

My main concern is it's not teaching them technology if you leave them on these. Maybe as an introduction, but at some point they need to move to a laptop to understand how PCs work. 

People said the same thing when Windows started shipping with a GUI. 

Want kids to actually know how a PC works? Don't let them use Windows. Force them to use something like Gentoo or Arch.

 

 

If people don't understand file structures with things like directories then why should we force them to learn, when we are moving towards a world where such knowledge isn't needed?

[Brooksie359]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

People said the same thing when Windows started shipping with a GUI. 

Want kids to actually know how a PC works? Don't let them use Windows. Force them to use something like Gentoo or Arch.

You have to realize the difference is that businesses won't be switching to Chrome books anytime soon so yeah learning windows is pretty important seeing as a large amount of companies use them. Maybe Mac would be another one to learn as well because that's probably the second on the list of what you might work on when you get into the workplace. 

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

Same issue with Windows and MacOS.

 

Less of an issue, with a chrome book literally 100% of the data you have on it is stored by google cloud side. The local disk is purely a cache. And non of the that data is end to end encrypted.

[PeachGr]

Americans be like: we are the bad guys??? That's wrong! 

Yeah. Everyone is gathering days from everyone and for China, USA is gathering data, as it is on the opposite side, and eu tries to protect itself as well

[rikitikitavi]

3 hours ago, DeerDK said:

I figure it kinda defeats the purpose of the platform? 

Purpose is to be as low cost as possible, provide basic productivity and be as easily approachable as possible -> Linux distros, including Android have the best chance. Check out $50 RaspberryPi and Raspbian.

[Brooksie359]

9 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Affordable but at what price?

Crap tech like spybooks are affordable because YOU are the product, is it really worth to give up all of your private information just to be able to do 2+2 on a screen rather than in a paper? big oof

 

And schools should teach handwriting like that's the whole point of attending school, learning things. Most gen-z kids today think cursive is some kind of alien language, like they're at a point they can't even READ it and are shy to write more than a page in separate block letters, why just because computers exist kids shouldn't learn to write? or read? you walk before running and you write before you type that's how school should be. You're "forcing" them to write because they should know how to write.

 

There should be a way to add technology to learning WITHOUT megacorporations spying on KIDS, that's literally sickening omg they can't decide for themselves, they can't disagree to a ToS document and their parents are often as tech illiterate as their teachers and school district managers that push AND FORCE google's (and derivates) bs tech onto them because "it's a new thing"

Let's be honest here when do you even need to know cursive other than for signatures? I feel like the amount of time I spent learning cursive would have been much better served learning basically anything else as I certainly never used it outside of the garde we were learning it.  

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

You hear that BlackBerry, it's now your chance for a come back. QNX for all /s

[rikitikitavi]

17 minutes ago, Caroline said:

And schools should teach handwriting like that's the whole point of attending school, learning things. Most gen-z kids today think cursive is some kind of alien language, like they're at a point they can't even READ it and are shy to write more than a page in separate block letters, why just because computers exist kids shouldn't learn to write? or read? you walk before running and you write before you type that's how school should be. You're "forcing" them to write because they should know how to write.

I'm not sure that education has changed so much in the past few years that pupils aren't using handwriting. As far as I know, laptops are used as a research and communication tool, not as a notepad for every class

[rikitikitavi]

11 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Let's be honest here when do you even need to know cursive other than for signatures? I feel like the amount of time I spent learning cursive would have been much better served learning basically anything else as I certainly never used it outside of the garde we were learning it.  

How do you write on paper? Do you lift your pen every time to draw out every single letter with a space in between? Does it look like Comic Sans?

[Brooksie359]

37 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

How do you write on paper? Do you lift your pen every time to draw out every single letter with a space in between? Does it look like Comic Sans?

I hardly ever write on paper tbh and the times that I do it's usually just normal writing of letters and not cursive. 99% of the time any writing I do is on a computer which is 100% better as it's actually understandable vs my handwriting which is sorta difficult to read at times. 

[Enigma147]

4 hours ago, DeerDK said:

 

 

Summary

 Danish authorities bans the use of Chromebook in public schools, due to the potential risks of US authorities gathering data - in conflict with EU data protection laws. 

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

Its interesting to see a growing conflict between the tech giants, the spy agencies and the consumer/data protection laws. Removing Chromebook as a platform for schools is a major disruption. 

I also made me think of Linus' perils in getting a Chromebook for his kids for school. 

 

Sources

 https://politiken.dk/viden/art8882501/Lærere-står-med-»kæmpestort-problem«-Chromebooks-bliver-forbudt-på-danske-skoler

 

Edit, found an English article as well. 

https://blog.simpleanalytics.com/denmark-bans-google-workspace-for-municipalities

It's not only the Danish. Here in the Netherlands the Dutch government has even more privacy concerns about using Google applications in education.

 

Last year we (Dutch government) already closed an agreement with Google about complying with European privacy laws in Chrome, chromebook and Google education. Special versions for education in the Netherlands would be supplied this year,  but is postponed to August next year. In the mean time schools are advised to not use any Google products. 

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, DeerDK said:

 

 

My thoughts

Its interesting to see a growing conflict between the tech giants, the spy agencies and the consumer/data protection laws. Removing Chromebook as a platform for schools is a major disruption. 

I also made me think of Linus' perils in getting a Chromebook for his kids for school. 

 

 

Is it though? Chromebooks are already garbage-tier hardware. Few countries have domestic manufacturers of everything. For what it's worth however, replacing the OS is at least doable.

 

The problem I see is that the government doesn't provide an OS and cloud services either.