R.I.P. Bitcoin - $19,158.35 and falling fast

[LWM723]

Is it because people are cashing out or what?
https://www.blockchain.com/explorer

[JKRsega]

About time this rubbish came to an end.

[LWM723]

It's at $18,998.69
now.

[LWM723]

When it's $1 I'll buy 20.

[Kilrah]

The mess that the entire crypto market is is going down.

 

 

Speculation, a lot of the scam / fraud ponzi-like schemes starting to fall apart, and regulators starting to look seriously into things.

 

https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

 

 

[LWM723]

Should be at $1 in less than 10 days at this rate. Will be a lot of mining rigs for sale real soon.

[xAcid9]

Nah, it will bounce back. I'm sure a lot still hodl-ing in and there's still more potential sheep customer to scam. benefit from this crash.

[Arika]

[Needfuldoer]

 

The whole crypto environment was overheated anyway. I think the writing was on the wall once the bros bought all those Super Bowl ads; once Internet stuff makes it into the mainstream media, you know it's over. (For example, remember when Sesame Workshop Cartoon Network Rickrolled the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in 2008?)

Edited June 18, 2022 by Needfuldoer
Accused the wrong culprits, found video evidence. Sorry, Big Bird.

[Middcore]

And nothing of value was lost. 

[Neroon]

6 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Nah, it will bounce back. I'm sure a lot still hodl-ing in and there's still more potential sheep customer to scam. benefit from this crash.

For sure it will bounce, but I think this is a typical downward movement of lower highs. It will always bounce a bit, but after those sh.. customers bought the dip, it just goes down further again.

 

This was always the expectation with crypto. Let's face it, crypto failed as a proper currency, instead it's just a way for transferring money. But everything is compared to like USD, EUR etc. You don't pay 0.0006 or whatever BTC for a product. No you pay whatever BTC that is the current going rate for like 50 USD. If BTC goes down you need to pay more BTC, because they still want 50 USD.

 

There is also a big difference with stocks and crypto. There is a certain fundamental value to a stock, now obviously that system is broken as hell for sure, Tesla being worth more than the rest of the car industry combined, tells you that. But BTC can go to 1 dollar, and is absolutely still fine for using it. Whereas if say Toyota went to 1 dollar, it would be bought up like crazy, because the company has actual value, not made up value.

 

I expect BTC to drop way and way further, it will have it's up movements. But I expect it to drop under 1k in like 3 years.

 

There is this quote and goes something like: "If your aunt is talking about investments, it's too late". I know plenty of people with zero knowledge of crypto or investing, who started talking about it like a year ago, that was the peak, that was the moment everyone and their grandma put money in it. After that there is no way to go up again, and people will just keep taking out their money, taking either their losses or profits, but they are taking it out.

Also BTC lacks long term value, so it's not like this has been 50K+ for the past 5 years, 20k is still freaking high compared to a few years ago.

[Sarra]

lol I just glanced at it and it's at $17,700.

 

My only response is 'wow lol'

 

I've gone from $600 to $175, but I mined everything in my account, instead of 'investing'. Was hoping to pay off my GPU by mining, but I guess that won't happen now.

[Kilrah]

 

[wseaton]

Neroon nailed it. Bitcoin only has value as a monetary transfer mechanism. Its value is always pegged to a real currency like the dollar. 

 

Trading bitcoin is like trading UDP packets. 

 

Bitcoin prices were high because it was a purely speculative market. At least tulips are pretty to look it. In a high inflationary economy you want to hold onto tangible commodities. Not ones and zeroes.

 

NFTs might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. The fact you have markets thriving on this crap is proof there's too much free cash flowing and a poster child the economy has too much liquidity. 

[Neroon]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

 

I'm not really getting what is he is saying.

With loans does he mean people went short? Shorting obviously causes downwards pressure, but those loans wouldn't have margin calls if the price keeps going down.

Margin call is a mechanic that happens when people don't have enough collateral to keep their shorts going, so the party that is covering your short, could feel that it's getting too risky, and force you to cover. But again this only happens when things go up.

So I have no clue what that dude is talking about.

[Neroon]

2 minutes ago, wseaton said:

NFTs might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. The fact you have markets thriving on this crap is proof there's too much free cash flowing and a poster child the economy has too much liquidity. 

I mean in it's current form absolutely it is.

I can see however ways where this could work.

 

So first I want to compare NFT's to rare physical items. Because I do feel a lot of people are overly negative about some of the possibilities because they don't quite get it.

 

The biggest argument is: "Why would I pay for an image, when I can just save it to my disk and have the exact same image' and well they are not wrong. This is absolutely true.
When we look at expensive physical items, like rare paintings, baseball/tcg cards, comics etc, the same argument could be made. I mean those items are stored in very special ways, they don't hang on walls, they aren't played with, and they aren't being read. At least not the super valuable versions, so they might hang a fake, play a lesser version or read like a reprint/digital version.

No one thinks that is crazy, because you would have to be insane to handle something so expensive. Let's face it, people don't buy it to use it, but as an investment and/or bragging right.

So when you look at it that way, NFT's are the same.

 

NFT's also offer a different way to support artists, when we think of art, we can also think of art in a modern way. A painting is static, and no matter how much a painting tries to bring it alive, it's still static. Digital art does not have to be static, and when you think about screens as way to display art, or even better, the 3D picture frames, a whole new world opens up. Now sure having a TV on all day for displaying an image, isn't something we should encourage right now, it's definitely something that could be super cheap in the future.

 

For me the biggest issue is that there is no control over how many of 1 image can be sold, you could argue that you could sue someone if they go back on their word that yours is the only one, but I have no idea how viable that is. On top of that how do you know you bought the original one?

 

The solution could be like a database, a database containing the image (only accessible by the owner - except for a preview), with the identifying information, so that when you buy it, you can check if it's really as rare as they claim, whether it's the original and you can be certain that the image won't just disappear from the internet. 
Of course the database has to be maintained, so that would have to be reputable party, but yeah I can see that happening.

 

But to be clear, I'm talking about high end digital art, not some random generated image to make bank, but something created by an artist, something worthy of putting on your wall.

[Bitter]

I mined most of what I have in crypto so while yes it's painful for the bubble to burst and things to drop like a rock I don't have a ton of real money into it so it's not a huge deal. I suspect much like anything everything (stocks, futures, housing prices, etc) it'll go back up again at some point. Boom and bust, it's what money stuff always does. World's kind of in the shitter right now, crypto isn't the only thing nose diving and it won't be the worst. Wait till all the car loan defaults start causing a disaster when car values plummet to normal levels.

[TetraSky]

It's the fact that many exchanges are restriction withdrawals that's really funny to me.

Basically what it means is "get fucked while we sell your assets and disappear" 

[Neroon]

55 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I mined most of what I have in crypto so while yes it's painful for the bubble to burst and things to drop like a rock I don't have a ton of real money into it so it's not a huge deal. I suspect much like anything everything (stocks, futures, housing prices, etc) it'll go back up again at some point. Boom and bust, it's what money stuff always does. World's kind of in the shitter right now, crypto isn't the only thing nose diving and it won't be the worst. Wait till all the car loan defaults start causing a disaster when car values plummet to normal levels.

Why? Why would it go back up again? Can you give 1 reason why this is worth 1k, 10k, 50k?

You compare them to other things like stocks and housing. But those have an actual value. And I don't mean in the way that crypto has no value because it's shit or whatever, as in there is nothing connected to it, whether BTC goes for 50k or 50 cents, makes no difference in it's use.

 

Think about physical currencies, I use euro's, the euro can drop considerably compared to other currencies, which makes importing more expensive for sure. But I get paid the same, my rent is the same, my food is the same etc. The euro is fixed to a giant economy. Now sure inflation will change prices, but say the dollar getting stronger in itself, has no real meaningful effect on it.

 

But crypto doesn't have all that. When Musk accepted BTC for his cars, you could get a car for 1 BTC. But when it went down, it became 1.1 BTC, 1.2 BTC, 1.3 BTC etc. Not sure if he accepts them atm, but it would be like 4 BTC. Why? Not because of inflation or whatever, but simply because there is no sticker price for BTC, there are dollars, euros, yens, pounds etc.

 

So why is that different from housing and stocks. Well simple. A house has a value, and very deep rooted value. It's more than just a made up number. The size, location, condition all has a certain value, and I'm not specifically talking about an amount, but how badly people want it, how popular it is etc. The price of other places, or how much rent is being paid for whatever house, all brings it to a certain number. Inflation will bring it up, deflation brings it down etc. Same goes for stock, there is an actual value to a company, and stock is an actual piece of that company. 

BTC can drop to 1 dollar and it does the same thing as before, there is no reason to say it's worth more or less, it's not like a 1 dollar BTC will get you a Tesla, they will just exchange it to dollars and hit you with that price.

Whereas if a house went to 1 dollar, well you better buy that shit up quickly, because you can rent that out for crazy amounts.

 

 

Crypto became something disgusting, because instead of being a decentralized system, it became something completely shit, where people made others believe what they had was valuable, but it was all completely made up. After so many have been burned by it, it's now collapsing, and I don't see how it's gonna balance out, and I don't see why there would ever be an end to it's drop. The scam people ran with it, is almost over, and once that is done, people won't burn their hands on it again. That doesn't mean it's dead, but it's never gonna be like this again.

[Bitter]

Because that's just how it goes, things go up and things go down, it'll have value again for the same reasons it had value in the first place whatever reasons those were. Plenty of things are actually worth much less than the value we assign to them. Up, down, boom, bust, bear, bull, the cycle will continue with everything.

[LWM723]

A blast from the past:
"The future of Bitcoin"

https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/bitcoin-future.html

[thrasher_565]

i was going to mine bc when it firt was a thing i did light cone for like an hour and im like na i dont want to kill my gpu... dam what can you do... and funny alot of people sold at $8000 mark thow they mined alot of that for price  of power and just resold the gpus later... if they didn't kill em that is. under volting came later on...

 

kinda wonders how that one bank that use to lundrey moeny was under investigation and all of a sudden bit cone came a thing... just saying...

[Kilrah]

5 hours ago, Neroon said:

I'm not really getting what is he is saying.

With loans does he mean people went short? Shorting obviously causes downwards pressure, but those loans wouldn't have margin calls if the price keeps going down.

Margin call is a mechanic that happens when people don't have enough collateral to keep their shorts going, so the party that is covering your short, could feel that it's getting too risky, and force you to cover. But again this only happens when things go up.

So I have no clue what that dude is talking about.

I'm not at all well versed enough into this, but my understanding is that a lot of the crypto market (between companies, not at the individual level) is chains of "get a loan to get a loan to get a loan..." i.e. the collateral essentially doesn't exist. The collateral was crypto, so it disappears at the same time as the loan it's supposed to be backing...

  

5 hours ago, Caroline said:

I know this was planned all along by the centralised financial system in order to revitalise fiat currencies

I really do not think the crypto sphere has needed any "help" from the fiat system to mess this up given everything that's popped up recently. Turns out some older big players that were considered "reliable" were doing shady things all along. 

[Neroon]

4 hours ago, Kilrah said:

I'm not at all well versed enough into this, but my understanding is that a lot of the crypto market (between companies, not at the individual level) is chains of "get a loan to get a loan to get a loan..." i.e. the collateral essentially doesn't exist. The collateral was crypto, so it disappears at the same time as the loan it's supposed to be backing...

This would create margin calls in the stock market, which is what the GME and AMC people are hoping. Basically those are heavily shorted stock, if the market crashes, including crypto, they become worth less, and they are forced to cover aka margin call.

Now in that case they would have to cover everything, including their crypto shorts, however it would still end up going down.

 

The reasoning is simple, margin calls happen all the time, especially with retail traders. You go short, stock/crypto goes up, and they force you out of your position of other stuff to cover (buy back the shorted product). Now when we look at Gamestop and AMC, those have 20%+ shorted (and the believe is that it's way more, but those are 100% sure), meaning that a fifth of the shares would need to be bought back. This of course would cause a massive price increase. This is also why if 1 big shorter falls over, things will keep going.

 

Anyway because those shares are hard to get, and people are holding for that very day, you get a squeeze, they need to pay what the owners want.

When a short squeeze happens, they are forced to sell everything, and cover as much as possible. Selling causes the market to go down, with only the shorted stock to go up.

 

BTC doesn't have this set up, but it does move with the stock market. So if those were to squeeze, BTC will fall with the stock market, even if there is some buying pressure from covering BTC.

 

 

Tl;dr version: BTC is not set up for a squeeze, while it would go up a bit from covering, it would go down with a market collapse.

[Beerzerker]

8 hours ago, Kilrah said:

I'm not at all well versed enough into this, but my understanding is that a lot of the crypto market (between companies, not at the individual level) is chains of "get a loan to get a loan to get a loan..." i.e. the collateral essentially doesn't exist. The collateral was crypto, so it disappears at the same time as the loan it's supposed to be backing...

  

I really do not think the crypto sphere has needed any "help" from the fiat system to mess this up given everything that's popped up recently. Turns out some older big players that were considered "reliable" were doing shady things all along. 

Confirms what I said elsewhere about who will win and lose along with their schemes of fleecing the newer guys in crapto.

Only the guys that's been in it long enough to amass a good/majority number of coins by now will ever win and they do have, in the literal sense of it "Control" of things concerning crapto and they made damned it's like that to their own ends.

I saw how it was structured way back and didn't bother to mess with it, even though I could have been sitting on a nice, healthy stash of coins by now myself. When I could have started, you could really mine about a coin a day, maybe a coin every two days but those days (2010) are long gone now.
I had the system, GPUs and what-not at the time but decided against it when I saw and realized some things I didn't like about it at all, these things proven over time and even more so now.

Crapto can crash straight to hell itself - I won't lose a thing when it does.