Debt collectors are now able to DM people in debt

[tikker]

29 minutes ago, tkitch said:

10K?  Most colleges will cost more than that for a single year in the US.  If not a single SEMESTER.  

7 minutes ago, linkboy said:

$10k in student loans when you're done with college in the US is a pipe-dream.

Well that sucks. No state funding is the main reason I guess? For EU students tuition here is around 2200 per year (this year it was lowered to ~1000 due to the pandemic). For non-EU students it's >10k per year.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Without trying to be politial or offensive i think being in debt is part of the US "lifestyle" so to say. I think in the USA credit cards are the single most used method of payment. So basically everything they buy is debt in the first place.

 

I have once used a credit card, but only because the online store didn't accept anything else. I never understood the point of the credit card juggling americans do in the first place.

 

But some things you just cannot afford without taking a credit. Most people could not buy or build houses from their monthly income and saving up alone.

I use my credit card the same way I would a debt card. I charge things that I know I was going to buy anyways and just pay it off at the end of the month to avoid any interest. This makes it so you build good credit which is the main reason why alot of people have credit cards. Also there are other advantages as well like when encountering fraud situations or lost card. 

[poochyena]

6 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I never understood the point of the credit card juggling americans do in the first place.

Well thats incredibly easy to answer. the cash back rewards. Here are mine

[Dedayog]

10 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Well thats incredibly easy to answer. the cash back rewards. Here are mine

This is a good point, but this really highlights it...  5% back on Amazon purchases?  Huge.

 

 

 

[poochyena]

13 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

This is a good point, but this really highlights it...  5% back on Amazon purchases?  Huge.

 

 

 

Oh right, what I posted was my main credit card, I use my prime card for amazon purchases

So between my two credit cards, I made over $600 this year in rewards.

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, tkitch said:

10K?  Most colleges will cost more than that for a single year in the US.  If not a single SEMESTER.  

Understand basic economics should be a requirement before signing on the line.

 

It's a matter of supply and demand. University seats and the professors time are limited resources. The more people demand, the higher the price goes (and requirements) until an equilibrium is reached. When gov backed loans are available, the market adjusts by raising tuition higher. What people are witnessing is a feed-back loop. More loans, higher tuition, more loans to chase the increase, lather rise repeat.

 

Not everyone can afford a University, nor should they expect to be entitled to one.

 

Don't go into debt unless your certain it will pay off!

[tkitch]

4 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Understand basic economics should be a requirement before signing on the line.

It should be, but home-ec was removed from public schools, so they don't get taught that anymore.  Whose fault is that?  I wouldn't blame the kids.

 

Quote

It's a matter of supply and demand. University seats and the professors time are limited resources. The more people demand, the higher the price goes (and requirements) until an equilibrium is reached.

Yes and no, here.  I don't think that we're suffering from a shortage of colleges or profs at the schools.  Especially given how much work TAs and grad students do for them.

 

Quote

When gov backed loans are available, the market adjusts by raising tuition higher. What people are witnessing is a feed-back loop. More loans, higher tuition, more loans to chase the increase, lather rise repeat.

And what you're describing isn't really grounded in what's happened.

Back in the 70's and into the 80's, you could pay for college working part time, plus some extra work over the summer.  I know people who literally did just that.  Hell, the increase in cost since when I went to college in the late 90's is so steep it blows /MY/ mind.  It's INSANE.

 

Now that tuition is 20K-50K/yr?  Nobody's getting 20K from a summer job, unless daddy is rich and hires them for a cushy gig.

 

Quote

Not everyone can afford a University, nor should they expect to be entitled to one.

 

Don't go into debt unless your certain it will pay off!

Except making college stupidly exclusive has the result of making the country dumber.

 

A better educated country will be a more productive country.  Better education will mean the country does better in the future, taking away that option from a huge portion of the conutry will NOT make things better for anyone.

[StDragon]

2 minutes ago, tkitch said:

Except making college stupidly exclusive has the result of making the country dumber.

 

A better educated country will be a more productive country.  Better education will mean the country does better in the future, taking away that option from a huge portion of the conutry will NOT make things better for anyone.

The world will always need farmers, plumbers, electricians, and machinists. Seeking higher education should always be a goal, but a society can never run if everyone is behind a desk pushing paper.

 

BTW, Western Universities are being funded by those from East seeking a better life. All the stuff we buy from them, goes right into their pocket, which in turn is given to their children whom come over here to get educated. Nothing wrong with that, but the demand for top universities isn't sourced locally. In fact, the demand is sourced internationally.

 

[tkitch]

5 minutes ago, StDragon said:

The world will always need farmers, plumbers, electricians, and machinists. Seeking higher education should always be a goal, but a society can never run if everyone is behind a desk pushing paper.

And Trade school is /also/ higher education.  Just a different variety.  

 

I'm not referencing top universities.  IDGAF what people who drop 50K+ a year on school are going to do, they're not normal people.  Rich people (US and International, both) are gonna be rich, what they do is up to them.  

REgular schools are coming in at 20K+ a year now, and that's not tenable.  

[Fasterthannothing]

Pay your debt or make a plan to start paying it simple thing. Like debt collectors aren't a problem if you don't make it a problem. You know how you get rich by spending wisely. A large amount of rich people you couldn't even tell it. They drive used cars and live in small houses. They are rich because they saved and invested properly. I come from a very rural area many people believe rural people are poor and that is true for the most part but a lot have wealth far beyond what they appear to have because they are very tight with their money. I was always taught never spend what you don't have and save for a rainy day.

[PocketNerd]

11 hours ago, rrats said:

Summary

 

Creditors in the US are now able to reach out people in debt via private messages,

Fixed it for yeah, Canada has nothing to do with this change. Aside from the fact the BBC has a category called "US & Canada"

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, SlidewaysZ said:

I was always taught never spend what you don't have and save for a rainy day.

You go to the doctor and are informed you have a serious case of cancer. Its treatable, but will result in expensive medicine, operations, and a long hospital stay. The bill will be over $300,000 with a recurring $500 monthly bill for the rest of your life for the new medication you will have to take every day. Do you choose to not get treatment if you don't have that money saved up?

[GOTSpectrum]

12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

You go to the doctor and are informed you have a serious case of cancer. Its treatable, but will result in expensive medicine, operations, and a long hospital stay. The bill will be over $300,000 with a recurring $500 monthly bill for the rest of your life for the new medication you will have to take every day. Do you choose to not get treatment if you don't have that money saved up?

And that is EXACTLY what is wrong with private healthcare services... 

[tikker]

27 minutes ago, poochyena said:

You go to the doctor and are informed you have a serious case of cancer. Its treatable, but will result in expensive medicine, operations, and a long hospital stay. The bill will be over $300,000 with a recurring $500 monthly bill for the rest of your life for the new medication you will have to take every day. Do you choose to not get treatment if you don't have that money saved up?

That's a false comparison though. The "don't spend what you don't have / save it for a rainy day" is the don't buy a $5k TV when you only have $3k to spend kind, not the I need to finance an unexpected and impossible to have been predicted medical bill kind. Plus, that's what health insurance is for, who luckily foots the vast majority of the bill over here.

[Lord Bloobus]

Google will put all their messages in my spam folders and warn me it's a potential scam call lol.

[Fasterthannothing]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

You go to the doctor and are informed you have a serious case of cancer. Its treatable, but will result in expensive medicine, operations, and a long hospital stay. The bill will be over $300,000 with a recurring $500 monthly bill for the rest of your life for the new medication you will have to take every day. Do you choose to not get treatment if you don't have that money saved up?

No one will come close to paying a full medical bill. Even people with the worst insurance. There are also assistance programs and hospitals will usually work with you along with price cuts by forcing them to itemize your bill. Further more I have been in that situation I have medical bills that would be in the millions I'm not rich not even close yet I'm not being called by a debt collector. Not to mention I literally covered that in my first sentence of my post by saying work with the company you owe debt to make sure you can get a payment plan that works. Besides trying to conflate this with getting in debt by buying a $50k sports car or other unnecessary object isn't even the same thing. 

[poochyena]

31 minutes ago, tikker said:

The "don't spend what you don't have / save it for a rainy day" is the don't buy a $5k TV when you only have $3k to spend kind, not the I need to finance an unexpected and impossible to have been predicted medical bill kind. Plus, that's what health insurance is for, who luckily foots the vast majority of the bill over here.

Then say don't buy a TV if you can't afford it. "don't spend what you don't have" is absolutely terrible generalized advice.

Health insurance is incredibly more complicated than that. What they will pay for and how much of it varies greatly from person to person.

7 minutes ago, SlidewaysZ said:

No one will come close to paying a full medical bill. Even people with the worst insurance. There are also assistance programs and hospitals will usually work with you along with price cuts by forcing them to itemize your bill.

250,000 people go onto gofundme every year to beg for money so they can stay alive. Fine, they won't pay "full price", but its enough that they can't afford and have to go into debt or bed strangers for money.

11 minutes ago, SlidewaysZ said:

Besides trying to conflate this with getting in debt by buying a $50k sports car or other unnecessary object isn't even the same thing. 

I'm not the one doing that. I never implied that all debt is bad like others in this thread have. "never spend what you don't have"

[tikker]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Then say don't buy a TV if you can't afford it. "don't spend what you don't have" is absolutely terrible generalized advice.

Don't misconstrue it as saying that life-saving treatment should be foregone to avoid going into debt, you know that is not what was said or intended. A general advice is always subject to exceptions and isn't applied blindly with an iron fist to every situation. This is like complaining about oranges being marketed as healthy as someone allergic to oranges will die from them.

 

Buying e.g. a TV is something completely different form a surprise medical bill. You're not going the snap your arm in half tomorrow, because you feel like spending a massive hospital bill. You are knowlingly and willingly putting yourself in financial trouble if you buy a $5k TV on a credit card if you don't have $5k to spend.

 

I was also raised with the don't spend what you don't have mentality and I still fare by that. I always put money away into savings, and if I want an expensive item, I check if it won't put me in debt. Obviously in the past as a 17-year old I didn't have 20k lying around to fund university or 300k for a house, so a loan through our education system specifically for that makes sense or a mortgage makes perfect sense. If I am presented with unexpected bills, I have an emergency fund to take some of the initial hit and I reign in other expenses to deal with it to the best of my abilities.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Health insurance is incredibly more complicated than that. What they will pay for and how much of it varies greatly from person to person.

What was that about generalised statements? That may be for you, but here health insurance covers pretty much anything and you won't end up with a 300k bill. You quite literally won't even see the bill most of the time. The hospital sends it straight to the insurance company.

 

GP visits, non-ER treatment outside of GP hours at the GP-equivalent of the ER, common stuff like casts for breaking an arm, common surgeries and a boat load of other hospital stuff are all covered. Even the ER is covered (within reason, the insurance company will definitely refuse if you go to the ER because you have a splinter). The cheapest variant(s) of not over-the-counter medicine for treatments are also covered, unless it's a rare one.

 

The only bill you'll ever see for those is the so-called "personal risk". This is a couple hundred minimum that you pay yourself (adjustable upwards at will in return for a slightly lower monthly fee). Once you are past that amount, insurance will take over.

 

Coverage of ocular, dental and similarly more specialised treatment like phyiscal therapy (generally non-hosptial treatments) depends more on which plan you have. The more exotic and expensive your treatment is, the less likely it is to be fully covered with the most basic plans covering a few treatments (like 10 physical therapy sessions) and the more expensive plans multiple ones. A person-to-person dependency only manifest in the form of that difference in plans.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

I'm not the one doing that. I never implied that all debt is bad like others in this thread have. "never spend what you don't have"

By equating an unforeseen involuntary hospital bill to a planned voluntary purchase that will put you in debt you are conflating the two. Of course they are different and, once more, nobody said you should decline treatment because of debt.

[Arika]

Can't wait to see debt collectors signing up for only fans to message their targets. Seems social media these days is just an advertising ground for thots' only fans.

[poochyena]

2 minutes ago, tikker said:

Don't misconstrue it as saying that life-saving treatment should be foregone to avoid going into debt, you know that is not what was said or intended.

misconstrue? Its literally what was said. "never spend what you don't have and save for a rainy day. " is the exact quote.

 

4 minutes ago, tikker said:

This is like complaining about oranges being marketed as healthy as someone allergic to oranges will die from them.

Thats not even remotely similar. Yes, advice differs from person to person, but the advice of never going into debt is never good advice for anyone. Saying oranges are healthy is fine because to most people, it is. Saying debt is bad isn't fine because for most people, debt is good. Something like 90% of consumer debt is from housing, education, and transportation. Maybe some people are paying too much for those things, but even for a financially responsible person, it is reasonable and acceptable to acquire some debt to purchase those things.

13 minutes ago, tikker said:

What was that about generalised statements? That may be for you, but here health insurance covers pretty much anything and you won't end up with a 300k bill.

idk where you are from but in american there is no one "health insurance", there are hundreds, if not thousands of different healthcare plans, all with different monthly payment, deductibles, medication costs, coverage, etc. And then there is also "in network" and "out of network" in which out of network can add to costs. Its a very complex system.

25 minutes ago, tikker said:

By equating an unforeseen involuntary hospital bill to a planned voluntary purchase that will put you in debt you are conflating the two.

I did literally the opposite of that. I explained specifically why they *aren't* equal.

[Whispre]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

Well thats incredibly easy to answer. the cash back rewards. Here are mine

 

 

Yep, my wife and I charge everything on credit cards, and all are set to auto pay in full every month, no interest paid. We average around $1500 a year in cash back between the 2 cards we use.

 

 

[Donut417]

13 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

Without trying to be politial or offensive i think being in debt is part of the US "lifestyle" so to say. I think in the USA credit cards are the single most used method of payment. So basically everything they buy is debt in the first place.

 

I have once used a credit card, but only because the online store didn't accept anything else. I never understood the point of the credit card juggling americans do in the first place.

 

But some things you just cannot afford without taking a credit. Most people could not buy or build houses from their monthly income and saving up alone.

Maybe its the most used method. I use my debit card most of the time. Some people are just bad with money. I use my credit card only when I know I have the money to spend. The issue is you have to have credit to do anything in the US. Need to buy a car? They are checking the credit report. Want to buy a house or lease an apartment? Credit report. Need a loan? Again credit report. Most people have credit cards to build credit. 

 

8 hours ago, TetraSky said:

asy solution to this... Just don't live above your means.

So you have to be homeless? Average rent in the Detroit area is $900+ a month. Thats for a one bed room apartment. That is not going to include utilities and you have to pay for laundry. $15 is a somewhat achievable wage depending on what job you have, thats only $2400 a month. Thats not including taxes being taken out. Public transit doesnt exist, so you have to buy a car, fuel for the car and insurance as required under state law. Add in food expenses and probably a phone bill so you have a way to communicate with the outside world. Thats the issue here. Wages are too low to keep up with the cost of rent. 

 

Before you say you should go to school. The only way to pay for school is to take out loans, because taking a class or two a semester is just a waste of time. I had $52,000 in student loan debt from my Bachelors degree. You have to go for a bachelors or above if you want to get a job. Ive seen many job listings and thats the requirement. Even if a Bachelor's degree doesn't make sense, they require it, because thats how they filter out the candidates. However just having a degree doesn't mean your going to get good pay. Ive seen tons of jobs that wanted to pay $13 an hour with a degree. So many people now days have degrees that the labor market is filled with over qualified people. 

 

For the record the technical monthly payment for my student loans are over $500 a month, Im on a payment plan so I pay less. If your lucky like my sister you can get a job with the government and have to pay $0 back. 

[linkboy]

14 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Maybe its the most used method. I use my debit card most of the time. Some people are just bad with money. I use my credit card only when I know I have the money to spend. The issue is you have to have credit to do anything in the US. Need to buy a car? They are checking the credit report. Want to buy a house or lease an apartment? Credit report. Need a loan? Again credit report. Most people have credit cards to build credit. 

 

So you have to be homeless? Average rent in the Detroit area is $900+ a month. Thats for a one bed room apartment. That is not going to include utilities and you have to pay for laundry. $15 is a somewhat achievable wage depending on what job you have, thats only $2400 a month. Thats not including taxes being taken out. Public transit doesnt exist, so you have to buy a car, fuel for the car and insurance as required under state law. Add in food expenses and probably a phone bill so you have a way to communicate with the outside world. Thats the issue here. Wages are too low to keep up with the cost of rent. 

 

Before you say you should go to school. The only way to pay for school is to take out loans, because taking a class or two a semester is just a waste of time. I had $52,000 in student loan debt from my Bachelors degree. You have to go for a bachelors or above if you want to get a job. Ive seen many job listings and thats the requirement. Even if a Bachelor's degree doesn't make sense, they require it, because thats how they filter out the candidates. However just having a degree doesn't mean your going to get good pay. Ive seen tons of jobs that wanted to pay $13 an hour with a degree. So many people now days have degrees that the labor market is filled with over qualified people. 

 

For the record the technical monthly payment for my student loans are over $500 a month, Im on a payment plan so I pay less. If your lucky like my sister you can get a job with the government and have to pay $0 back. 

 

This.

 

There's also the issue of even just getting into a place due to security deposits. My apartment wanted a full month rent ($765) as a security deposit. The only reason I was able to get into the place was the landlord knows my mom and agreed to let me pay the security deposit in increments (and my parents had to float me the money for last month). That $900 apartment will cost you $1,800 to get in if they want a full month's rent as the security deposit.

 

And that's not even throwing health care into the mix, which a lot of people forego because they can't afford it.

 

The federal minimum wage in the US is $7.25. That's only $15,080 annually for a full-time worker (40 hours a week), and that's before state and federal taxes are taken out. There's 19 states that either don't have a minimum wage or go off of the federal standard. There's no way someone making that can afford to go to school because they'll have to work more then one job just to afford a place. They won't have time to go to college

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, StDragon said:

Understand basic economics should be a requirement before signing on the line.

 

It's a matter of supply and demand. University seats and the professors time are limited resources. The more people demand, the higher the price goes (and requirements) until an equilibrium is reached. When gov backed loans are available, the market adjusts by raising tuition higher. What people are witnessing is a feed-back loop. More loans, higher tuition, more loans to chase the increase, lather rise repeat.

 

Not everyone can afford a University, nor should they expect to be entitled to one.

 

Don't go into debt unless your certain it will pay off!

To be fair it seems like k-12 had no problem with supply and demand. I think people just like to think problems are more complicated than they are. There are ways that colleges could be more affordable but unfortunately that would be in direct contradiction with the interests of those who profit off of the university system so those people would oppose those changes. Also its not like there are no examples of places that do have college at a more reasonable price. Economics is a weird thing where alot of things can be done to make things work but generally speaking it would have to be done systematically and couldn't be purely market driven. 

[tikker]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Yes, advice differs from person to person, but the advice of never going into debt is never good advice for anyone

So going into debt is? That's the logic you were applying earlier. Like I said, the advice was not choose death over debt. Avoiding debt when you can is most definitely good advice.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

Saying debt is bad isn't fine because for most people, debt is good. Something like 90% of consumer debt is from housing, education, and transportation. Maybe some people are paying too much for those things, but even for a financially responsible person, it is reasonable and acceptable to acquire some debt to purchase those things.

That last sentence is the crux here. Debt isn't good. You won't own what you buy through it an are not independent. Just because it's expected and acceptable does not mean it is good. That is why I gave the example of education and mortgage debts earlier. The reason why one generally thinks an education or mortgage debt is "good", is because it's an investment in your future and because you will never wield that amount of money in your early years. Your intent should still be to pay that debt off as quickly as you can, because those debts can impact everything else in your future. For example, my university debt will significantly impact the maximum mortgage I can get, so it's in my best interest to get rid of it as soon as possible. Even a justifiable debt is bad.

 

If you buy something with a credit card that you technically cannot afford (again the TV exxample) and end up in debt, then you are a financially irresponsible person who is spending money they don't have and thus shouldn't spend.

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

I did literally the opposite of that. I explained specifically why they *aren't* equal.

You implied that the intent of "don't spend what you don't have" was that it applies to e.g. unexpected medical bills as well, which it never was. That is treating it equal to a normal expense.