Do you want a New PC, or some DDR5 memory?

[RejZoR]

14 minutes ago, Lord Bloobus said:

Price of early adopters, you can build up a stellar "last gen" PC without a GPU for a very small amount of money.

I have a tendency to buy top end last gen and stick with it for 5 years. At least on platform side. I swap graphic cards more often. That's especially the case with DDR memory. If I think back, every generation i bought them almost at the end of its life cycle. I know I went with DDR2 when DDR3 just came. And I went with DDR4 just when DDR5 came out. Although I did have DDR4 twice because we had it around for so long. There was some difference in speed tho. Intel X99 system had DDR4 2400MHz running at 2666MHz. Now I have DDR4 3600MHz running at 3733MHz (I even got it to boot at 4000MHz synced 1:1 Infinity Fabric, but wasn't stable. Still, quite a difference.

 

I'll probably be on DDR5 at the end of its cycle some 5 years in the future. Unless it'll be around for as long as DDR4, which I suspect it might given how it was prepared for the future with certain changes.

[Shreyas1]

2 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

Did you know, that would make about $2 a day. And if you had started mining at 3xxx release, you'd be able to afford a scalped GPU?

That's before electricity costs, right? If a 1070 makes that much I might have to put mine to use...

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

That's before electricity costs, right? If a 1070 makes that much I might have to put mine to use...

That's with a cost of 0.10 per kw/H You'd have to figure it out with your electricity costs.

[Moonzy]

i can wait, let's go

[sof006]

Looking at benchmarks DDR4 vs DDR5 with with 12th gen I see miniscule differences between them. I see no benefit to upgrading to DDR5.

 

I'd just buy a motherboard that either supports DDR4 or both 4/5 (if thats possible)

[CephDigital]

Imma just say these scalpers are dumb as fuck. DDR5 is both expensive and not much better than DDR4 right now. Smart people will wait until DDR5 is more mature, faster and cheaper.

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

A 1070 is still a good GPU, although for newer games it sometimes isn't enough.

But I can't blame anyone that didn't expect cards to get scalped at over 100% of the launch MSRP price. In the US I didn't see any Nvidia or AMD gpus in stock at launch, bots got them instantly, and the only way to get a GPU is live near a Microcenter or pay a scalper.

I will admit it was a rather short time-frame (1-2 months) so it was probably easy to miss,  also it was like in waves, few days available,  then a week nothing... 

 

I am still waiting for the Evga 3080 I signed up for in November btw (which i now couldn't afford anyway lol) ... (i think that was a good chance for Americans to get a card tho for example)

 

 

[dizmo]

Eh, this isn't really that surprising. As soon as the reports came out that there would be limited supply, they jumped on it. Also probably bought a bunch of kits as the stock trickled into retailers, since there's really no downside. If there wasn't demand, just return what you bought. Full refund. If I could get my hands on a set of RAM and I knew someone would pay 6x it's price, I'd probably sell it too. 

 

6 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

Ah well,

2nd gen of DDR5 might make these essentialy worthless

They don't really make different Gen's of memory, it just matures

5 hours ago, porina said:

To me it makes little sense to build a high end ADL system if you don't go for DDR5. The benefits are clear and the price premium (if normally available) isn't that bad. It is in line with introduction pricing.

 

DDR4 based ADL makes sense if you start to factor in value, but at that point any 6+ core desktop CPU in the last few years is also good.

 

It will be interesting to see if scalpers manage to shift at high pricing. The CPU side is far less critical than the GPU for a gaming system.

For gaming? The differences are minimal of any. The 12600k is still a strong performer without it. 

 

I think this will be short lived. The number of people who will want to buy at a drastically inflated price is far lower than something like a GPU. 

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

This makes the point of Alder Lake 12600K entirely irrelevant even if it's the best thing ever for the price. They can basically hand it out for free to users and it still wouldn't be able to compete with Ryzen 5 5600X. Solely because of availability of DDR5 RAM and its ridiculous prices.

Not really. You can use it with DDR4. The difference really isn't that much between the two. 

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

There are going to be plenty of reasons when the next generation platforms release and drop ddr4...

That's still a year away though. Loads of time. 

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

A 1070 is still a good GPU, although for newer games it sometimes isn't enough.

But I can't blame anyone that didn't expect cards to get scalped at over 100% of the launch MSRP price. In the US I didn't see any Nvidia or AMD gpus in stock at launch, bots got them instantly, and the only way to get a GPU is live near a Microcenter or pay a scalper.

You can still use a 12600K with DDR4 ram, although IMO I don't see the point in paying more for a Z690 board and using DDR4, when you could spend less on a 5600X and a B550 board.

You can go to local stores and put your name on a list. A couple of my friends did that and they got cards within a few weeks. BestBuy also has stores where it sends shipments that don't show up in online stock. There's definitely ways other then Microcenter or scalpers. Just have to be willing to put in the work to look. 

4 hours ago, SADS said:

All this scalping is doing, is making me want to be a PC enthusiast less and less.

 

They'll kill their own market at this rate.

 

I'll just play my old games on my old hardware and be fine with that. Especially when new games just don't seem to impress or surprise me that much these days... Maybe I'm just getting old

Don't let it sway your love for the hobby. It's just something you need to put up with every few years. With more companies ramping chip production it's unlikely to be an issue again, at least not at this scale. 

 

It's not really their market They just go where the money is. 

3 hours ago, darknessblade said:

Indeed, not forgetting if there is a sudden drop in a massive amount of Units of DDR5 memory. they will make no profit, or settle for less profit, knowing there are still suckers who think {fill store in} has no stock.

Unlikely in the current climate. Plus, they could just return the stock they don't sell. 

3 hours ago, Lord Bloobus said:

Price of early adopters, you can build up a stellar "last gen" PC without a GPU for a very small amount of money.

The price difference between the two isn't really that large though. 

2 hours ago, CephDigital said:

Imma just say these scalpers are dumb as fuck. DDR5 is both expensive and not much better than DDR4 right now. Smart people will wait until DDR5 is more mature, faster and cheaper.

Not really, the things you mentioned don't matter. People will still buy it, so getting 4x your investment is a pretty smart use of your expendable cash. 

[suicidalfranco]

Miner hate thread in

3...2...1...

[lostcattears]

LOLOLOL This time I say they are way in over their head... They don't understand... They just lost money...

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, lostcattears said:

LOLOLOL This time I say they are way in over their head... They don't understand... They just lost money...

Are they though? They're making money off it.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=ddr5+ram&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&_odkw=ddr5&_osacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1

[lostcattears]

2 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Are they though? They're making money off it.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=ddr5+ram&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&_odkw=ddr5&_osacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1

Any sane people that have watched a single video about DDR5 and DDR4 across tech channels would not buy it at the very least. Who knows those bidders might just be themselves to prop up prices. Besides... DYI community is the only ones buying those alderlake boards... They knows best. 

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, lostcattears said:

Any sane people that have watched a single video about DDR5 and DDR4 across tech channels would not buy it at the very least. Who knows those bidders might just be themselves to prop up prices. Besides... DYI community is the only ones buying those alderlake boards... They knows best. 

Those are sold listings, not bid listings. They sold for that price.

There's SIs using Alder Lake too.

[Quackers101]

hope DDR5 looks a lot better in future, and also not having added issues in components quality and so on.

[Blademaster91]

7 hours ago, lostcattears said:

Any sane people that have watched a single video about DDR5 and DDR4 across tech channels would not buy it at the very least. Who knows those bidders might just be themselves to prop up prices. Besides... DYI community is the only ones buying those alderlake boards... They knows best. 

The DIY community also spends 2X the list price for a graphics card, so people actually paying scalpers for DDR5 isn't surprising.

On 11/24/2021 at 1:55 PM, dizmo said:

You can go to local stores and put your name on a list. A couple of my friends did that and they got cards within a few weeks. BestBuy also has stores where it sends shipments that don't show up in online stock. There's definitely ways other then Microcenter or scalpers. Just have to be willing to put in the work to look. 

I don't know of any other store besides Microcenter that will add anyone to a waiting list, and a Microcenter is hours away. Only some Bestbuy stores got FE RTX cards in stock, most others only have a GT1030 in the store.

On 11/24/2021 at 1:55 PM, dizmo said:

Don't let it sway your love for the hobby. It's just something you need to put up with every few years. With more companies ramping chip production it's unlikely to be an issue again, at least not at this scale. 

 

It's not really their market They just go where the money is. 

As companies increase chip production and build more fabs, that cost is going to get passed along to the customer, so I don't expect prices to go down much if at all.

And it is a scalpers market, supplies are limited, and companies, suppliers, and retailers do nothing to prevent scalping so prices stay high and of course they want prices to remain higher.

[BuckGup]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:33 AM, CephDigital said:

Imma just say these scalpers are dumb as fuck. DDR5 is both expensive and not much better than DDR4 right now. Smart people will wait until DDR5 is more mature, faster and cheaper.

A scalper exists because there's a demand for it. The only idiot here is the person buying it from the scalper. The only demand for DDR5 I see is in the datacenters and they wouldn't be buying from eBay

[Junaid Hameed]

To all the scalpers in all places on God's green earth  "Stick it where the sun doesn't shine"

[Jerry Mouse]

 Never be the first to jump on the latest and greatest. It always costs way more than it should.

[vsteel]

Keep in mind there are industrial scalpers as well.  Some of those small components which are in demand are also bought up by people who won't use them.  Though at that level they are "leveraging the market" or a "resaler" or some other term which means scalping at a large scale. 

 

 

[Animal901]

I7 4771 and rx580 still works great with 16gb ddr3. Same for 4770s, gtx760 and ddr3 16gb. Windows 11 is designed to stop us from enjoying all this great hardware that never gets completely used up. Most people just play csgo and minecraft anyways. Most computer improvements are ac waste.  You'd be better off buying and fixing a small house. 

[darknessblade]

1 hour ago, Animal901 said:

I7 4771 and rx580 still works great with 16gb ddr3. Same for 4770s, gtx760 and ddr3 16gb. Windows 11 is designed to stop us from enjoying all this great hardware that never gets completely used up. Most people just play csgo and minecraft anyways. Most computer improvements are ac waste.  You'd be better off buying and fixing a small house. 

 

Indeed, not forgetting windows 11 its trash UI.

 

Which is one of the main reasons for me to keep TPM disabled in the BIOS, that way i cannot accidentally upgrade to windows 11.

 

Then again, if windows really goes forward with banning users from using older hardware with windows 11, i think many governments are gonna complain, due their systems not being able to upgrade, or that it causes a couple millions of tons of E-Waste

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, darknessblade said:

 

Indeed, not forgetting windows 11 its trash UI.

 

Which is one of the main reasons for me to keep TPM disabled in the BIOS, that way i cannot accidentally upgrade to windows 11.

 

Then again, if windows really goes forward with banning users from using older hardware with windows 11, i think many governments are gonna complain, due their systems not being able to upgrade, or that it causes a couple millions of tons of E-Waste

Do Governments and Business automatically to new completely upgrade of the OS they are using? Windows XP is still use for crying out loud.

[Fnige]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:10 AM, darknessblade said:

Then again, if windows really goes forward with banning users from using older hardware with windows 11, i think many governments are gonna complain, due their systems not being able to upgrade, or that it causes a couple millions of tons of E-Waste

iirc government and corporations generally dont upgrade most of their hardware often. So I highly doubt theyll complain

[maartendc]

This scalping is becoming a real problem for everything in today's market, from PC parts (GPU's, now RAM) to consoles (Xbox, PS5, Switch) to other things (bicycles, concert tickets,...).

 

If you look at it macro-economically, these people use this as their full time job. They offer zero added value to the economy, just raise the cost of living for everyone. This should have the effect of slowing down the economy, because people have less spending power left over. At the same time, scalpers are not productive in any way, not offering anything that moves society forward.

 

Perhaps we should go back to buying stuff in physical stores, as online shopping makes scalping way too easy? I am wondering if the government should step in, or if retailers could not do more to combat this? If this keeps going on, governments and lawmakers will start looking at this.