Damn, Apple.

[Emily Young]

Apple’s most anticipated event in recent memory announced new Apple Silicon and MacBook Pros powered by the M1 Pro and M1 Max. And they look GOOD.

 

 

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[SupaKomputa]

Memory card slot, now that's a pro^tm laptop that you cannot get proletarians...

[Haituga]

I do have to ask:

Why have the same title on the main channel as well as Mac Address? Seems a bit like the guy LMG hired for a new Mac channel doesn't get the spot. Nothing against Anthony, really liked the video, it just seems confusing having two LMG hosts with basically the same video covering the same topic and I didn't learn a lot of new things from Jonathans video after watching Anthonys. It would be vice versa if I watched Mac Address first. Seems like someone forgot to mention who was up for job.

[leadeater]

@GabenJrFYI they achieved the higher memory bandwidth by using LPDDR5. M1 uses LPDDR4X that is 4 channels per module so 8 channels in total, I think only Samsung has these 4 layer 4 channel LPDDR4X modules. M1 Pro and M1 Max will be similar so each module will be two channels with each channel offering 51.2GB/s as per Samsung's LPDDR5 specification.

 

M1 Pro = 8 Channel LPDDR5

M1 Max = 16 Channel LPDDR5

 

However this is my speculation only.

[SupaKomputa]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

@GabenJrFYI they achieved the higher memory bandwidth by using LPDDR5. M1 uses LPDDR4X that is 4 channels per module so 8 channels in total, I think only Samsung has these 4 layer(die) 4 channel LPDDR4X modules. M1 Pro and M1 Max will be similar so each module will be two channels with each channel offering 51.2GB/s as per Samsung's LPDDR5 specification.

 

M1 Pro = 8 Channel LPDDR5

M1 Max = 16 Channel LPDDR5

 

However this is my speculation only.

First laptop with ddr5? why didn't they brag about it? you know apple love to brag about minute details.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

First laptop with ddr5? why didn't they brag about it? you know apple love to brag about minute details.

Probably because us, non Apple users, would care lol

[Arika]

i agree

 

"damn, Apple....that's an ugly ass notch you put on your laptops you morons"

[BaidDSB]

Fanboys [yes Anthony included] swooning over apple for doing the bare minimum is exactly  why Apple gets away with doing so much shit.

 

Unless the fanboys stop doing this, Apple will never stop even remotely being anti consumer

[Egg-Roll]

Any laptop that gets a stupid notch gets a thumbs down for me, a laptop is massive in comparison to a smartphone and should never have it. So while yes it looks nice, no one should patronize a product with a notch... Please lets all team up and kill the damn thing.

[Dragonwinged]

So they're gonna compare it to all their highest end Windows Laptops. Here's a laptop I'd like them to add to their comparison list.

 

 

[panzersharkcat]

4 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Any laptop that gets a stupid notch gets a thumbs down for me, a laptop is massive in comparison to a smartphone and should never have it. So while yes it looks nice, no one should patronize a product with a notch... Please lets all team up and kill the damn thing.

I get why they did it. It gives the user a bit more vertical space to work with. It's 16:10 plus the 74 pixels for the top menu bar, which is the same height as that notch, which uses up space that would be empty anyway. I just think it looks ugly. It would not be a deal-breaker for me if I was the kind of buy a MacBook, though.

[SupaKomputa]

8 minutes ago, Dragonwinged said:

So they're gonna compare it to all their highest end Windows Laptops. Here's a laptop I'd like them to add to their comparison list.

Bro, anything on the x86 processor world will not compete with M1 max, it's just too good.

I have to admit pc fanboy lost for now.

[Egg-Roll]

7 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

I have to admit pc fanboy lost for now.

Macs are PCs too... If you don't think so then that's hundreds of millions in advertising doing its job

 

M1 Max is a powerhouse but the reason why we can't really compare them to the x86 is because it was released by Apple in a closed ecosystem. If they allowed windows on their system legally then that could change till then it's in its own tiny bubble. Still by the sounds of it a great unit, but lets wait and see how well it actually preforms once it gets into the hands of the reviewers shale we? In order for it to be better than x86 imo it has to do everything I need it to do, including gaming and oh yea upgradability  Since it's basically an APU that last part is thrown out the window.

 

21 minutes ago, panzersharkcat said:

I get why they did it. It gives the user a bit more vertical space to work with. It's 16:10 plus the 74 pixels for the top menu bar, which is the same height as that notch, which uses up space that would be empty anyway.

Just increase the the laptop by the difference? Not like anyone will really notice slamming it into a backpack etc... Also the cost in materials is minuscule.

[SupaKomputa]

11 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Macs are PCs too

Yeah, but i never heard of them address their computer as personal. lol.

[panzersharkcat]

14 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Just increase the the laptop by the difference? Not like anyone will really notice slamming it into a backpack etc... Also the cost in materials is minuscule.

You'd have that extra on top plus the bezel to fit the webcam in. I know Dell fit their webcam in a really tiny bezel on the XPS15 but IIRC, the quality isn't the greatest. For Apple, it was probably a matter of utilizing otherwise unused space to fit a webcam in with bigger sensors and stuff. I don't personally mind thicker bezels (I use a ThinkPad T15g, which has bezels from 2010) but for people who care about that stuff, they probably would want it a little bit sleeker and shiz.

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

Macs are PCs too

Well depends on the definition of PC, macs are absolutely no longer based on the IBM PC standard that that x86 systems are (mostly) still based on (UEFI of course did make a big change to this but that withstanding PC really does mean IBM PC). 

 

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

If they allowed windows on their system legally then that could change till then it's in its own tiny bubble.

Apple is not the one limiting windows running on this system, they said that this was up-to MS and it is. Apple cant make the needed changes to the windows kernel they are way to low level to be things that can be provided by drivers. And MS are not even legally permitting you to run windows ARM in a VM! 

 

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

including gaming and oh yea upgradability  Since it's basically an APU that last part is thrown out the window.

Depends, people have done memory and ssd upgrades on the M1, since the M1 uses off the self NAND and LPDDR4x this was not that hard for a skilled board level repair shop.  I expect they will be doing the same for M1 Max.. there are real advantages to having the memory soldered on package from a power saving perspective. and the same is true for the SSD, be using the SSD controller that is build into the SoC they can save a lot of power that would otherwise be spend on PCIe bandwidth and on a SSD controller on a much older node. You might not like it but these are the reason the machine is as fast as it is. Do you expect to be able to easily upgrade the memory on your GPU after all?


 

[Jaesop]

9 hours ago, BaidDSB said:

Fanboys [yes Anthony included] swooning over apple for doing the bare minimum is exactly  why Apple gets away with doing so much shit.

 

Unless the fanboys stop doing this, Apple will never stop even remotely being anti consumer

I think a lot of the 'swooning' is because it's a powerful machine with a lot of nice features. Seems odd to call that the 'bare minimum'

[Jaesop]

9 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Any laptop that gets a stupid notch gets a thumbs down for me, a laptop is massive in comparison to a smartphone and should never have it. So while yes it looks nice, no one should patronize a product with a notch... Please lets all team up and kill the damn thing.

Why? I mean, it's cool if you don't like it but it's not a moral issue dude. You get a 16:10 display, plus extra display above it with the menu bar so the notch never blocks anything.

[Egg-Roll]

2 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Yeah, but i never heard of them address their computer as personal. lol.

They might have in the 90's when they actually served the personal use sector, now they mostly do stuff for work related situations which is why they don't really do it today. Their low end laptop could technically be seen as a personal computer however.

 

3 hours ago, panzersharkcat said:

You'd have that extra on top plus the bezel to fit the webcam in. I know Dell fit their webcam in a really tiny bezel on the XPS15 but IIRC, the quality isn't the greatest. For Apple, it was probably a matter of utilizing otherwise unused space to fit a webcam in with bigger sensors and stuff. I don't personally mind thicker bezels (I use a ThinkPad T15g, which has bezels from 2010) but for people who care about that stuff, they probably would want it a little bit sleeker and shiz.

All true, but with Apples budget? If there is will there is a way, they do like their sleek designs and Apple laptop designs do look nice, but the fact they had to throw in a notch to keep said designs eww.

 

2 hours ago, hishnash said:

Well depends on the definition of PC, macs are absolutely no longer based on the IBM PC standard that that x86 systems are (mostly) still based on (UEFI of course did make a big change to this but that withstanding PC really does mean IBM PC). 

Just because one brands it doesn't mean they coined it... 

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/personalsystems/0021/other/0021ad.pdf

 

2 hours ago, hishnash said:

Apple is not the one limiting windows running on this system, they said that this was up-to MS and it is. Apple cant make the needed changes to the windows kernel they are way to low level to be things that can be provided by drivers. And MS are not even legally permitting you to run windows ARM in a VM! 

True, but they have been very anti windows in the past correct? So why support something that the original maker was never willing to work with in the first place.

 

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

Depends, people have done memory and ssd upgrades on the M1, since the M1 uses off the self NAND and LPDDR4x this was not that hard for a skilled board level repair shop.  I expect they will be doing the same for M1 Max.. there are real advantages to having the memory soldered on package from a power saving perspective. and the same is true for the SSD, be using the SSD controller that is build into the SoC they can save a lot of power that would otherwise be spend on PCIe bandwidth and on a SSD controller on a much older node. You might not like it but these are the reason the machine is as fast as it is. Do you expect to be able to easily upgrade the memory on your GPU after all?

Wasn't referring to the ram but more in line if the M1 Max ever was to make it onto their main stations which I think should happen or its predecessor. However that said Apple could throw in a dedicated GPU.

Nope don't expect to be able to upgrade my GPU (why it's important to buy the proper version for your needs) ram however while I understand the soldered aspect and how it can benefit the unit I rather suffer the penalty of upgradability, esp now that you can carry a backup battery to offset the loss or double the laptops runtime.

11 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

Why? I mean, it's cool if you don't like it but it's not a moral issue dude. You get a 16:10 display, plus extra display above it with the menu bar so the notch never blocks anything.

It's a bad thing to do, while it may not effect this particular device due to how it's set up, if Windows laptops follow it, it will start causing issues. While I've not used a Mac in over 20 years I have used top side menu applications like Ubuntu (before they changed it), I've tried to use windows with top down functionality, it's weird. Also to reinstate the annoying old school border on every program to "hide" something that should never have been put there? What you gave is basically an excuse for them to continue to do so, and that's your choice. I personally hate it because they choose the "simple" router and mimic a phone instead of doing actual R&D to resolve the issue. Apple literally has the money to do a camera behind the screen and would make the unit far more cool looking because you now have a camera but you can't see it as it's hidden and since they are not shipping with facetime...

[Blademaster91]

26 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

I think a lot of the 'swooning' is because it's a powerful machine with a lot of nice features. Seems odd to call that the 'bare minimum'

I think a lot of it is because apple added ports back, which is interesting because so many people defended apple over dongles for so long, now you get more port features and people are getting exciting over something that shouldn't have been taken away.

A HDMI port and a SD card slot is nice, but still not good enough as there should be a USB-A port if this laptop is for "pro" users.

[hishnash]

9 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

True, but they have been very anti windows in the past correct? So why support something that the original maker was never willing to work with in the first place.

 

No not really, apple is very happy for you to run windows or any os on their hardware as long as you buy their hardware they get the $.  In fact in the move to M1 apple make it easier to duel boot multiple operations systems even boot unsigned non secure boot operating systems without turning down the secure boot on your main Os installs. It used to be that if you wanted to duel boot, windows or linux, you can to reduce the secure boot settings for the enter system but now you can do it on a per os level this is very helpful as many users have restrictions from their employer that require these security settings to be on full panic mode. (and it is something no other PC supports)
 

 

14 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

I rather suffer the penalty of upgradability, esp now that you can carry a backup battery to offset the loss or double the laptops runtime.

To get this level of bandwidth with DDR SODIMs you would need to have a massive number so many that even if you removed the entire battery they would not be enough space. And that memory would draw more power than the entire SoC on full ballast!  If you were to reduce the bandwidth then you would not have any of the perfomance, you would en dup with a chip that is slower than the M1 hell likely slower than the iPhone 12.

And you can upgrade this later it will just require you to find a board level repair shop that is used to doing BGA soldering (the memory dies are harder than the SSD but a lot easier than a CPU and most board level repair places will find themselves replacing blown cpus from time to time so this is not that hard for them to do).  It would likely take them 30minutes if that since there is no diagnostics to run just remove the old chips, clean the pads and mount the new ones. It snot going to cost that much in labor. 

 

18 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

 if Windows laptops follow it, it will start causing issues.

I don't think you can critiques this laptop based on how other people might copy it and skew up. 

 

20 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Apple literally has the money to do a camera behind the screen and would make the unit far more cool looking because you now have a camera but you can't see it as it's hidden and since they are not shipping with facetime...

Nope not if you want any semblance of image quality. This is a miniLED display these things are not ultra transparent OLED displays they are thick multi layer display units with diffusers etc to spread out the light... if you put that infant of a camera less it does the same to the light in both directions... blur everything out that is what these defusers are designed to do. And no apple should not use OLED, just look at @LinusTech recent video on this. A 1000nit sustained OLED would burnin/out within a month on macOS. 
 

[hishnash]

19 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think a lot of it is because apple added ports back, which is interesting because so many people defended apple over dongles for so long, now you get more port features and people are getting exciting over something that shouldn't have been taken away.

A HDMI port and a SD card slot is nice, but still not good enough as there should be a USB-A port if this laptop is for "pro" users.

I think what people were happy about as the introduction of multiple USBC/TB ports. This machine strikes a good balance with 3 full speed (they do not share any bandwidth) TB4 ports and added HDMI etc  

USB-A is dead and people uses macs really do not have USBA devices any more we have all switched out those cables to be USB-C. I much prefer to have 3 TB4 ports than have 2 TB4 ports and 1 USBA. I can always have a very small USB-C to A adapter (since this is not a active adapter it does not have the issues of USB-C to HDMI or USB-C to Ethernet).  

[Jaesop]

29 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think a lot of it is because apple added ports back,

Nah, people are happy Apple is correct some bad design choices but they aren't 'swooning' over that.

 

29 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

A HDMI port and a SD card slot is nice, but still not good enough as there should be a USB-A port if this laptop is for "pro" users.

Not good enough for you, sure. You get to decide what best fits your needs. But let's not pretend it's uncommon for modern laptops, especially higher end ones, to stick to USB-C ports. There's lots of 'pro' work to be done without specifically USB-A. I can't immediately think of a common use.

[Egg-Roll]

21 minutes ago, hishnash said:

No not really, apple is very happy for you to run windows or any os on their hardware as long as you buy their hardware they get the $.  In fact in the move to M1 apple make it easier to duel boot multiple operations systems even boot unsigned non secure boot operating systems without turning down the secure boot on your main Os installs. It used to be that if you wanted to duel boot, windows or linux, you can to reduce the secure boot settings for the enter system but now you can do it on a per os level this is very helpful as many users have restrictions from their employer that require these security settings to be on full panic mode. (and it is something no other PC supports)

They made it easier sure but...

 

This quote is literally on their Boot Camp page...

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468

Quote

Information about products not manufactured by Apple, or independent websites not controlled or tested by Apple, is provided without recommendation or endorsement. Apple assumes no responsibility with regard to the selection, performance, or use of third-party websites or products. Apple makes no representations regarding third-party website accuracy or reliability. Contact the vendor for additional information.

AKA download and install windows 10 at your own risk. Outside of that I don't know much about Boot Camp and how well Windows works on it.

 

25 minutes ago, hishnash said:

To get this level of bandwidth with DDR SODIMs you would need to have a massive number so many that even if you removed the entire battery they would not be enough space. And that memory would draw more power than the entire SoC on full ballast!  If you were to reduce the bandwidth then you would not have any of the perfomance, you would en dup with a chip that is slower than the M1 hell likely slower than the iPhone 12.

And you can upgrade this later it will just require you to find a board level repair shop that is used to doing BGA soldering (the memory dies are harder than the SSD but a lot easier than a CPU and most board level repair places will find themselves replacing blown cpus from time to time so this is not that hard for them to do).  It would likely take them 30minutes if that since there is no diagnostics to run just remove the old chips, clean the pads and mount the new ones. It snot going to cost that much in labor. 

So it appears I mistook it for normal ram, I'll read more into it later. On a side note, who would need 200GB/s for memory outside of a very small select few?

 

Yea board level, in other words likely won't ever be Apple approved (blasphemy in the Apple community), so better order the proper size or not at all. Doubt Apple will offer instore upgrade because those at the "Genius Bar" are not exactly good enough for such a job imo, at least based on the experience of those I know who have had issues with Apple products.

 

40 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Nope not if you want any semblance of image quality. This is a miniLED display these things are not ultra transparent OLED displays they are thick multi layer display units with diffusers etc to spread out the light... if you put that infant of a camera less it does the same to the light in both directions... blur everything out that is what these defusers are designed to do. And no apple should not use OLED, just look at @LinusTech recent video on this. A 1000nit sustained OLED would burnin/out within a month on macOS. 

Yea when I typed that I forgot the panel was miniLED, that was my mistake... Still a better solution could have been thought of, and the internet seems to be having mixed issues about it. I think their panel is the best thing about this product lol.

[hishnash]

12 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

AKA download and install windows 10 at your own risk. Outside of that I don't know much about Boot Camp and how well Windows works on it.

This is for the older intel machines, non of the apple silicon machines have any windows support at all. On the intel machines it works fine. main issue is delay in getting GPU AMD driver updates.

 

13 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Yea board level, in other words likely won't ever be Apple approved (blasphemy in the Apple community), so better order the proper size or not at all. Doubt Apple will offer instore upgrade because those at the "Genius Bar" are not exactly good enough for such a job imo, at least based on the experience of those I know who have had issues with Apple products.

 

Using third party memory or ssds is also just and not approved as board level, i'm assuming your not upgrading day one after buying it but rather 4 to 7years after (these laptops will likely see usage for 10+ years).