Damn, Apple.

[sydh]

I can't believe they put a notch on a laptop display. HAH! This shit is just too damn funny at this point. 

 

As for the headphone jack impedance, are they aiming for beyond what most quality phones can drive of 32 to a possible 64? Are are they aiming to push into the 100's range for actual high end products? 

[Blademaster91]

32 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Yea board level, in other words likely won't ever be Apple approved (blasphemy in the Apple community), so better order the proper size or not at all. Doubt Apple will offer instore upgrade because those at the "Genius Bar" are not exactly good enough for such a job imo, at least based on the experience of those I know who have had issues with Apple products.

Exactly, no apple approved service would provide board level BGA chip swapping, iirc apple approved stores aren't even allowed to have parts on hand.

1 hour ago, Jaesop said:

Nah, people are happy Apple is correct some bad design choices but they aren't 'swooning' over that.

There still are bad design choices, that notch is ugly, other laptop companies can still fit a face camera in a very small bezel without needing to cut a notch into the screen.

And going by the mac address video thumbnail on these macbooks you can see " MAGSAFE! PORTS!".  So yeah people are swooning over ports that apple had previously taken away for years.

1 hour ago, Jaesop said:

Not good enough for you, sure. You get to decide what best fits your needs. But let's not pretend it's uncommon for modern laptops, especially higher end ones, to stick to USB-C ports. There's lots of 'pro' work to be done without specifically USB-A. I can't immediately think of a common use.

More features is always better, and if there was a USB-A port it would be better. Also Apple are the ones that pushed a lot of laptops to only have USB-C.

Common uses, keyboards, mice, USB flash drives, printers?

[Egg-Roll]

18 minutes ago, hishnash said:

This is for the older intel machines, non of the apple silicon machines have any windows support at all. On the intel machines it works fine. main issue is delay in getting GPU AMD driver updates.

 

Yea but the disclosure at the bottom displays they don't actually support it and never truly have, so it makes sense on MS's part to go nope on them, tho out of curiosity who is in charge of drivers? (if you know that is) However nothing is stopping people/others from doing it themselves  (but as mentioned in the last Intel upgrade, it's illegal) They only made Boot Camp to make their users lives easier and in hopes to sell more units.

 

18 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Using third party memory or ssds is also just and not approved as board level, i'm assuming your not upgrading day one after buying it but rather 4 to 7years after (these laptops will likely see usage for 10+ years). 

Fair enough as long as it's 4+ years it'll be out of warranty anyways lol... However I would hate to be the person who underestimated their needs for this setup as it means a new unit or a voided warranty.

[Jaesop]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

More features is always better, and if there was a USB-A port it would be better.

I mean, sure. Could have a webcam killswitch too. Could have FaceID. Could have lots of stuff. But you "not good enough", not "it would be better if" and implied USB-A should be present in any pro laptop which just isn't the current standard, nor really needed for many people.

 

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Common uses, keyboards, mice, USB flash drives, printers?

Can't say that those seem all that common in this day and age. How often are folks hooking up a keyboard to a laptop in general? And mice are pretty much always going to be Bluetooth. Printers are generally going to be over the network, I don't think it's super common for folks to be hooking them up directly to their laptop every time - especially pros, right?

 

USB drives is the biggest maybe and even then, we're pretty plainly moving away from that. Network storage, cloud storage.

 

I mean you could argue it doesn't have legacy support but that's never really been Apple's thing, nor has it needed to be either - they're generally not supporting legacy technology like Microsoft has to.

[GamerDude]

13 hours ago, Arika S said:

i agree

 

"damn, Apple....that's an ugly ass notch you put on your laptops you morons"

They are trying to make that fugly notch cool again, heard that Apple has a display cleaning cloth for iSheeps going for a bargain price of 25 Euros (that's ~29USD!). The iSheep would lap it up though, 'coz they know no better.

[Egg-Roll]

16 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

heard that Apple has a display cleaning cloth for iSheeps going for a bargain price of 25 Euros (that's ~29USD!). The iSheep would lap it up though, 'coz they know no better.

Too late...

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/19/apple-polishing-cloth-sold-out-november/

Checked Apples site using 90210 it now says Dec 3rd to 16th, the sheeple are strong with Apple

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MM6F3AM/A/polishing-cloth Tho it says $19 on the site and not 29... Europe is getting boned hard by Apple if that's the case.

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

MS's part to go nope on them, tho out of curiosity who is in charge of drivers? (if you know that is) 

To get Windows to run natively on Apple silicon it would require changes to the windows kernel not just drivers to be written. Apple would be in charge of driers and they said when asked that if MS wanted to support windows on apple silicon they would be providing drivers and support to MS but the only way apple could do this without MS help would be to break into MS source code controls stele windows source, modify it and distribute it (that would be very very illegal). If you want to have a more detailed look i suggest you go read up on the blog posts by the people working on getting linux to run on M1, this should give you a good idea of how the ARM compute space is very differnt from x86 and how apple (like every arm cpu) has done their own thing here that needs kernel level support.

On x86 systems, that do still support bootcamp, apple provides drivers as part of bootcamp. Since it is a regular UEFI x86 machine windows does not need any love level changes to run so apple is able to provide drivers to the system.
 

 

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

However nothing is stopping people/others from doing it themselves  (but as mentioned in the last Intel upgrade, it's illegal)

No its not illegal to run windows on an x86 mac. To run it on a M1 mac (apple silicon) it is in breach of the MS terms of service (unless you have an enterprise license maybe.. MS licensing rules are extremely complicated).

 

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

However I would hate to be the person who underestimated their needs for this setup as it means a new unit or a voided warranty.

That would be just as true for socketed ram, almost all systems will consider board level issues as warranty void if you put in other memory modules. And worth noting apple will not void your warranty on other parts of the machine if you do a soldered memory upgrade just on board level issues.  Also a skilled reaps should will be able to swap out the LPDDR5 chips without it being noticeable so unless there is an issue with that part of the board they will not notice you have done the upgrade. 
 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

1 hour ago, Jaesop said:

nd mice are pretty much always going to be Bluetooth.

Yeah but almost every single cheap bluetooth mice ive seen people using requires a USB A dongle

its still quite useful

[Egg-Roll]

2 minutes ago, hishnash said:

No its not illegal to run windows on an x86 mac. To run it on a M1 mac (apple silicon) it is in breach of the MS terms of service (unless you have an enterprise license maybe.. MS licensing rules are extremely complicated).

I was referring to the M1 for that, and uh if you really wanted it you would do it anyways lol...

 

11 minutes ago, hishnash said:

If you want to have a more detailed look i suggest you go read up on the blog posts by the people working on getting linux to run on M1, this should give you a good idea of how the ARM compute space is very differnt from x86 and how apple (like every arm cpu) has done their own thing here that needs kernel level support.

On x86 systems, that do still support bootcamp, apple provides drivers as part of bootcamp. Since it is a regular UEFI x86 machine windows does not need any love level changes to run so apple is able to provide drivers to the system.

I'll do that, but the logic of MS stepping out of Apples business does make sense then, because there is limited amount of sales to be had on their end of things if you think of it as most people buying a Mac won't be installing Windows. One could "justify" the cost of implementation, but then there's the support factor as well.

 

I'm going to have to read more on Boot Camp to find out what it's all about but if it's a simple passthrough or the ability to natively boot windows (similarly to how dual booting works) then I can see limited issues with drivers, I can see issues if it's something like WINE or a VM, but I'll look into that on my own. Sounds like a huge amount of BS and complex issues just to run and install Windows imo and that's with Boot Camp...

 

19 minutes ago, hishnash said:

That would be just as true for socketed ram, almost all systems will consider board level issues as warranty void if you put in other memory modules. And worth noting apple will not void your warranty on other parts of the machine if you do a soldered memory upgrade just on board level issues.  Also a skilled reaps should will be able to swap out the LPDDR5 chips without it being noticeable so unless there is an issue with that part of the board they will not notice you have done the upgrade. 

Could you clarify a bit? Would Apple void the board or just the ram aspect? I wouldn't chance a board upgrade until end of life anyways (if I need more power oh well, lesson learned) and only if financially cheaper and makes sense for the risk. One could resell the unit and lose a few hundred and get the upgraded unit also, unless you bought the top of the line unit then uh time to buy "the car" then I guess.

[Jaesop]

1 hour ago, IsaacisWeeb said:

Yeah but almost every single cheap bluetooth mice ive seen people using requires a USB A dongle

A bluetooth mouse won't require a dongle? And in any case, bluetooth mice are about $10. Not really worth slapping a USB-A port on there so you can use your old wireless mouse.

[Hachi_Roku256563]

10 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

A bluetooth mouse won't require a dongle? And in any case, bluetooth mice are about $10. Not really worth slapping a USB-A port on there so you can use your old wireless mouse.

ANY 10 dollar usb mouse requires a Bluetooth reciver

it pairs purely to that device which is then plugged into the usb a port

it means that they work even without bluetooth on the device

[Jaesop]

10 minutes ago, IsaacisWeeb said:

ANY 10 dollar usb mouse requires a Bluetooth reciver

No Bluetooth mouse requires a receiver. Some come with a receiver in case you don't have Bluetooth built in, but will work just fine with on board Bluetooth. If a mouse requires a dongle, it is not Bluetooth - it is probably RF. Lots of cheap mice are.

 

Something like this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/TeckNet-Ergonomic-Wireless-Chromebook-Adjustment/dp/B013WJRG5C/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=2.4g%2Bmouse&qid=1634700568&sr=8-3&th=1

 

This is an RF mouse. Thus why it requires a receiver.

 

Then we have something like this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Rechargeable-Wireless-Notebook-Laptop/dp/B07KNQRQ3P/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=bluetooth%2Bmouse&qid=1634700620&sr=8-3&th=1

 

Which is a cheap Bluetooth mouse which notably does not come with a dongle.

 

Any Bluetooth mouse will connect no fuss to any laptop with Bluetooth, no dongle required. What you are referring to is RF.

[ImAlsoRan]

I wish the notch wasn't there, but I'd take that compared to not having those pixels at all. There's already apps to blacken out that area and move the bar down entirely if you really hate it, and Apple hides it in full screen mode anyways. It's more screen real estate for people to use if they really want that option. I wish they'd let us have on-die RAM and swappable RAM that acts as a (very) fast swap partition, but I guess that'd be too complicated. I understand the expensive RAM, I just wish we got another option.

 

I'm considering selling my desktop for this (seriously) and just getting a Steam Deck or something since this level of power and this good of a display in a laptop are something that I've been dying for.

[DrMacintosh]

My take on these machines is that they are great but I still have a fundamental problem with them....they are ARM processors. 

 

I have had two MacBook Pros so far. My first was the 2016 nTB 13" and my second is my current 2020 13" 4 TB3 model. I like the fact that I can currently boot into Windows natively and run World of Warships (although the boot loader for Bootcamp is awful and crashes on first boot) and any other Windows utilities that I might need without fiddling with a VM. That's a very compelling feature for me. I can be in macOS for day to day tasks and work, but I can boot into Windows for games or windows only programs/utilities...I can't do that with M1. You have to pay for Parallels and run all your programs in an unsupported manner. 

 

I want to stick with the Mac, and I wan't the new performance and capabilities of Apple Silicon....but I also want the software library of Windows natively on the same machine. That's not possible unfortunately. 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

45 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

No Bluetooth mouse requires a receiver. Some come with a receiver in case you don't have Bluetooth built in, but will work just fine with on board Bluetooth. If a mouse requires a dongle, it is not Bluetooth - it is probably RF. Lots of cheap mice are.

 

This is correct

but they are paired to the reciver and wont pair to anything else

[hishnash]

2 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

One could "justify" the cost of implementation, but then there's the support factor as well.

I think the main reason is MS want to push these types of users to subscribe to windows 365, this is the new Azure hosted windows they are pushing. I expect this is going to be pushed a lot across the market MS long term goal is to do anything to increase Azure recurring revenue! 

 

 

2 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

if it's a simple passthrough or the ability to natively boot windows

It is simple just duel booting, the macOS bootcamp is just a tool that makes it easier to install windows (or linux) by letting you easily re-size your running macOS partition and creat a temp boot partition that the boot media is copied to so that you don't need to use a USB drive. Then it reboots your make into that boot media to do the install. When it is all complete it also injects into that boot media the windows drives package that means from windows you can opt to reboot directly into macOS (or any other installed OS) and you can do the same from macOS. Or during boot you can press and hold option and you will get a list of all possible bootable media. 
 

2 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Sounds like a huge amount of BS and complex issues just to run and install Windows imo and that's with Boot Camp...

You can absolutely install windows (on x86 systems) without using bootcamp you just need to put it onto a USB drive, boot into recovery mode to resized your macOS partition (assuming you want to install on the same drive) then reboot old option and boot into the USB drive. You might then still want to go to apples website and download the bootcamp drivers for windows as this is a handy package of drivers for things like webcams, trackpad etc.

 

 

2 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Would Apple void the board or just the ram aspect?

They would void the board, like most other vendors since you could put something in the socket that shorts the cpu or chipset. 

[Stahlmann]

8 hours ago, Jaesop said:

There's lots of 'pro' work to be done without specifically USB-A. I can't immediately think of a common use.

I'd say any pro that would work for hours on a laptop would at least have a mouse. And i currently don't know of any mouse that uses a Type C connector. So if you want such a device, you immediately have to use a stupid dongle.

[hishnash]

55 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

I'd say any pro that would work for hours on a laptop would at least have a mouse. And i currently don't know of any mouse that uses a Type C connector. So if you want such a device, you immediately have to use a stupid dongle.

The quality of the tracpack on macs is so good that most mac users don't use mice, even if they have desktops they end up buying the free standing trackpad. There are so many gestures and flicks you can do when you get used to it that means for pro suers (moving timelines etc) the trackpad is very powerful tool and a regular mouse is not.  There are places were a mouse is more important, but most of those prose likely use a BLE mouse that just connects directly to the radio in the mac.  

[Stahlmann]

24 minutes ago, hishnash said:

The quality of the tracpack on macs is so good that most mac users don't use mice, even if they have desktops they end up buying the free standing trackpad. There are so many gestures and flicks you can do when you get used to it that means for pro suers (moving timelines etc) the trackpad is very powerful tool and a regular mouse is not.  There are places were a mouse is more important, but most of those prose likely use a BLE mouse that just connects directly to the radio in the mac.  

I personally never used an Apple trackpad (as a matter of fact i never used a decent trackpad to begin with), so i can't really tell how good they are. I was always a mouse user, so that would be my choice if i'd use any computer whatsoever. I understand your point with a good trackpad, but that still isn't reason enough to completely leave out even a single Type-A port imo. I'd personally trade out 1 of 3 thunderbolt ports for a USB-A port. 2 thunderbolt ports offer enough connectivity for anything else imo. But yes, usecases differ and some people will prefer 3 thunderbolt ports instead of 2 + USB.

[leadeater]

12 hours ago, hishnash said:

No its not illegal to run windows on an x86 mac. To run it on a M1 mac (apple silicon) it is in breach of the MS terms of service (unless you have an enterprise license maybe.. MS licensing rules are extremely complicated).

All you need is a valid Windows License, just buy a retail license and then enter that in your Windows installation on your Mac device. 100% legal, 100% not against TOS or anything. If you are a student and your institution has Office 365 then your assigned student license I believe entitles you to a Windows license, can't remember that might be staff license only.

 

Anyway, an Apple device is just a piece of hardware and has no relevance over Microsoft licensing at all. Apple on the other hand has in their TOS that Mac OS is only to be run on Apple devices.

 

What would stop you putting Windows on an M1 Mac is that Microsoft does not sell Windows ARM edition through Retail, so if it could run on a M1 then you'll have to go through a Volume License Agreement to purchase that edition of Windows. Anyone can do this, if you wish to pay for it, which you shouldn't want to heh.

[nas01]

I have a question, apart from the music industry and some media industry, are there that many users that would be able to take advantage of the mac pro and max GPU. From what I know most of the most of the users that would be able to take advantage of such a GPU would be using windows. Either gamers where most games are in windows, or engineering and scientific fields where CUDA is the industry standard.

[Jaesop]

20 hours ago, IsaacisWeeb said:

This is correct

but they are paired to the reciver and wont pair to anything else

RF mice are paired to their specific receiver.

 

No Bluetooth mouse is paired to a specific receiver. Any Bluetooth mouse can connect using on board Bluetooth.

 

There is no Bluetooth mouse that only pairs to a specific receiver and will not pair to anything else. That is not a thing. You are mixing up Bluetooth and RF.

[Jaesop]

18 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

I'd say any pro that would work for hours on a laptop would at least have a mouse. And i currently don't know of any mouse that uses a Type C connector. So if you want such a device, you immediately have to use a stupid dongle.

I don't know of anyone who's using a wired mouse on a laptop.

 

But anyways, a quick Amazon search shows a plentiful amount of wired mice that use type C.

[Hachi_Roku256563]

28 minutes ago, Jaesop said:

I don't know of anyone who's using a wired mouse on a laptop.

 

I agree

Every single person i know with a  computer and a mouse have a Bluetooth mouse that uses a donlge

almost all logitechs odly enough

 

and i have never even seen a USB C mouse in my life

 

[atxcyclist]

Apple has been really kicking butt and taking names with their new M1 stuff. I have a family member that's probably going to wait on the eventual price drop of a 14", they don't really need high-spec hardware but their 2013 MacBook Pro has treated them well and it's about time for an upgrade. They could have probably gone with the first gen M1 Air and been quite well taken-care-of, but having some more ports and Magsafe charging are great features.