The Anti-iPhone

[Dracarris]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:42 PM, Senzelian said:

Batteries that aren't glued in don't exist.

I am so happy about this. Instead of a universal USB power bank that can charge every mobile device, I can now carry around a device-specific spare battery that is unnecessarily larger as it must be stab-protected.

 

Instead of having space for a battery that lasts all day, I can now worry every day about how I keep my phone alive and manage the charge status of multiple batteries for a single device. That is so much fun.

 

Glue that sucker in and make it easy to remove with properly designed pull tabs. End of story.

 

On 10/11/2021 at 7:55 PM, ryankrage77 said:

Being able to swap out the battery halfway through the day is a really nice feature.

How about a phone that lasts a full day on a single charge.

[Blademaster91]

15 hours ago, poochyena said:

Explain that math to me, how the battery bank I linked will keep a phone alive for less time than swapping the battery.

I don't get your point here. Ok, your battery degrades after 1-2 years, how is switching the battery better than using a battery bank?

 

Are you saying carrying a battery bank around is better than being able to swap out the battery?

If you can replace the battery with a new one you don't need a need a battery bank all the time because you can have a new battery that won't discharge as quickly, if the phone lasts through a day.

17 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I am so happy about this. Instead of a universal USB power bank that can charge every mobile device, I can now carry around a device-specific spare battery that is unnecessarily larger as it must be stab-protected.

 

Instead of having space for a battery that lasts all day, I can now worry every day about how I keep my phone alive and manage the charge status of multiple batteries for a single device. That is so much fun.

 

Glue that sucker in and make it easy to remove with properly designed pull tabs. End of story.

Who says you have to carry a spare battery everywhere, or have to have another battery all the time? If you seriously think you always need to have another battery with you, you're missing the point.

And pull tabs are nice when they work, but they often don't, and aren't any better than glue when the tab breaks.

17 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

How about a phone that lasts a full day on a single charge.

Did you watch the video?

[Dracarris]

15 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Who says you have to carry a spare battery everywhere, or have to have another battery all the time? If you seriously think you always need to have another battery with you, you're missing the point.

That's absolutely irrelevant. Either you need extra juice or not. If so, you can either carry a universal power bank or a device-specific spare battery with the additional burden of lower capacity-per-volume compared to a glued-in battery, which might be the root cause of having to recharge/change your battery during the day at all.

15 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And pull tabs are nice when they work, but they often don't, and aren't any better than glue when the tab breaks.

With a bit of effort they can be made such that they aren't easy to break. A little bit of heat from the glued side also helps a lot.

15 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Did you watch the video?

Yes. Again, totally irrelevant. Phones with glued (pull-stripped) batteries that easily last a day and USB power banks in all sizes and capacities exist en-masse.

 

There is literally no sensible use-case anymore for exchangeable batteries on phones. Your proposal of re-introducing device-specific battery chargers such that you can charge spare batteries outside of the phone makes it even worse. Instead of a single device with a single battery you propose to produce, buy, and manage an armada of batteries, chargers and cables, all of which ultimately need to be disposed of. This whole argumentation is totally flawed, as others have already pointed out before.

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

If you can replace the battery with a new one you don't need a need a battery bank all the time because you can have a new battery that won't discharge as quickly, if the phone lasts through a day.

A new battery after several years of use is only going to give you a small amount of extra life. Its not like phone batteries lose half their battery after a year or something unless you seriously abuse your battery I guess. my 4 year old lg g6 still lasts a full day no problem unless i'm playing a game for several hours continuously.

[Blademaster91]

28 minutes ago, poochyena said:

A new battery after several years of use is only going to give you a small amount of extra life. Its not like phone batteries lose half their battery after a year or something unless you seriously abuse your battery I guess. my 4 year old lg g6 still lasts a full day no problem unless i'm playing a game for several hours continuously.

Batteries in phones do degrade after several years, and you shouldn't be concerned with using the phone how you want to because of the battery, most phones would last much longer if the battery could be easily swapped out.

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

That's absolutely irrelevant. Either you need extra juice or not. If so, you can either carry a universal power bank or a device-specific spare battery with the additional burden of lower capacity-per-volume compared to a glued-in battery, which might be the root cause of having to recharge/change your battery during the day at all.

I take it you didn't see the video, the Fairphone 4 has a 3905mah battery, just slightly less than a Pixel 5, which easily lasts a whole day.

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

With a bit of effort they can be made such that they aren't easy to break. A little bit of heat from the glued side also helps a lot.

Or a battery can just be easily replaced, heat and batteries don't go well and you really shouldn't need a heat plate to remove a battery.

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Yes. Again, totally irrelevant. Phones with glued (pull-stripped) batteries that easily last a day and USB power banks in all sizes and capacities exist en-masse.

 

There is literally no sensible use-case anymore for exchangeable batteries on phones. Your proposal of re-introducing device-specific battery chargers such that you can charge spare batteries outside of the phone makes it even worse. Instead of a single device with a single battery you propose to produce, buy, and manage an armada of batteries, chargers and cables, all of which ultimately need to be disposed of. This whole argumentation is totally flawed, as others have already pointed out before.

If this is totally irrelevant to you then you aren't in the market for a phone that is less wasteful and more beneficial to the consumer.

Also you're taking what I said out of context, I never said you have to buy a device specific battery charger, or need to manage more than one battery. 

Buying a battery specific charger is only more convenient if you choose to have more than a single battery with the device.

I would rather have to dispose of a battery than a whole phone, when I could replace the battery.

It's like people don't realize how phones worked when the battery was replaceable. The battery wears out, you remove the rear cover and replace it, and now you have a device that works like new again, I'm not sure why this is some weird concept.

[Dracarris]

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I take it you didn't see the video, the Fairphone 4 has a 3905mah battery, just slightly less than a Pixel 5, which easily lasts a whole day.

Apart from the fact that the same volume battery could give you more capacity, or a non-replaceable battery with the same capacity would make the phone significantly smaller: Why do you need a replaceable battery if it lasts a full day? To replace it easily once every few years due to degradation? For that perk you sacrifice the device being smaller and water proof? Doesn't sound like a reasonable decision but like a very bad trade off.

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Or a battery can just be easily replaced, heat and batteries don't go well and you really shouldn't need a heat plate to remove a battery.

Aaah was waiting for that, battery dangerous, battery go boom. Obviously you have zero clue what it takes to exchange a pull-tab style battery. Nobody said anything about heat plates, that comes out of your imagination. All you need is a hair dryer to slightly *warm* up the adhesive/pull tabs. Batteries can withstand much higher temperatures than that without any problems whatsoever. If you still feel uncomfortable, take it to a repair shop that will do the swap for a small fee.

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

If this is totally irrelevant to you then you aren't in the market for a phone that is more beneficial to you. 

I am in the market of a beneficial phone, one that lasts a full day, is water proof  and smaller for a given capacity.

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I never said you [..] need to manage more than one battery. 

Then having a replaceable battery is utterly pointless. Being able to do an easy swap every few years only while daily suffering the disadvantages that inherently come with it makes absolutely no sense.

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I would rather have to dispose of a battery than a whole phone, when I could replace the battery.

It's like people don't realize how devices worked when the battery was replaceable. The battery wears out, you remove the rear cover and replace it, and now you have a device that works like new again, I'm not sure why this is some weird concept.

I don't get how people like you think any phone where the battery is glued/pull-tabbed in is e-waste if the battery dies. That's utter bullshit and plain wrong. I've done it myself plenty of times, and manufacturers like fairphone can aid quite a bit by things like easy accessibility to pull tabs. There are top quality guides out there which show you every single step and specialized shops that perform swaps for a small fee. You get a phone that is working like new again and that is water proof and that is smaller.

[HenrySalayne]

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It's like people don't realize how phones worked when the battery was replaceable. The battery wears out, you remove the rear cover and replace it, and now you have a device that works like new again, I'm not sure why this is some weird concept.

This and the easily replaceable USB connector are the two reasons I used my Note 3 for more than 5 years. My current phone (almost 3 years old) will need a replacement in the near future because the battery is noticeably decaying.

I have the slight feeling this is intentional. These two things just limit the lifetime of any phone and manufacturers want to sell new devices as often as possible.
 

[just_dave]

19 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

That's what the manufacturers want you to believe. Water resistance, replaceable components and some degree of modularity could be easily achievable (not to the same degree as a Fairphone of course). And nobody cares about 1 mm of additional thickness. It gets even more ironic if you take a look at the official cases and accessories for modern smartphones. I could just plop-off the back of my Note 3 and replace it with a flip cover adding 2 mm of thickness. Nowadays the official flip cover for the S21 will make the device as chunky as mobile phone from the 80s.

That's what they want you to believe!!!!1111 The government doesn't tell you that frogs are gay!!!111 Share this before they delete it and stick to your tinfoil hat!!11!!

 

What are you talking about? Have you ever seen the inside of an iPhone? It's fully modular. Or a Galaxy or a Pixel.

 

It's absolutely adequately modular, it just requires some tools and skill, not unga bunga bare hands like the Fairphone. I don't see any issue with that.

 

The problem is software component pairing, parts exclusivity/unavailability and manufacturers' desire to make the repair arbitrarily complicated.

 

The iPhone has for a very long time had the most modular and repairable mechanical structure. It's easy to open up and very easy to replace critical components (battery, screen). Android phones are much worse in this regard (except for some recent Pixels). 

However, Apple in Tim Cook's infinite profit wisdom decided to serialize all of the components, so even though they are super easy to swap, they won't work.

 

That is the real issue. 1 simple software update would make the iPhone go from unrepairable to best-in-class to repair.

[HenrySalayne]

2 minutes ago, just_dave said:

What are you talking about? Have you ever seen the inside of an iPhone? It's fully modular. Or a Galaxy or a Pixel.

 

It's absolutely adequately modular, it just requires some tools and skill, not unga bunga bare hands like the Fairphone. I don't see any issue with that.

Sorry, but that's like saying "you don't need an SD card slot because you could solder on more flash". It's not wrong but completely misplaced. Everybody can change the Fairphone's battery in mere seconds. It will take you the better part of an hour to do it on a modern Galaxy device and it requires a good selection of tools. That's a hurdle most people will not jump over. Like installing a custom OS after a manufacturer drops support.

[IPD]

Always been interested in Fairphone, but it's still not quite there yet for me.  I treasure the 5.0" screen size, the notch-less design (18:9) shape, etc.  And the 750g is barely better than the 845 in my Xperia XZ2 Compact.

[HenrySalayne]

11 minutes ago, just_dave said:

The iPhone has for a very long time had the most modular and repairable mechanical structure. It's easy to open up and very easy to replace critical components (battery, screen). [...]

However, Apple in Tim Cook's infinite profit wisdom decided to serialize all of the components, so even though they are super easy to swap, they won't work.

That is the real issue. 1 simple software update would make the iPhone go from unrepairable to best-in-class to repair.

I just checked the iFixit guide for the 12 Pro Max and you have to literally disassemble all internals to get to the battery. Are you sure 34 steps and 1 to 2 hours of your life are "best-in-class" repairability?

[Dracarris]

24 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

This and the easily replaceable USB connector are the two reasons I used my Note 3 for more than 5 years.

I don't get the jazz about failing connectors. My 6S is now 6 years old and the lightning port is rock solid stable, after multiple thousands of mating cycles. All I had to do was remove a fair amount of dust from it with a tweezer once or twice.

17 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Sorry, but that's like saying "you don't need an SD card slot because you could solder on more flash". It's not wrong but completely misplaced. Everybody can change the Fairphone's battery in mere seconds. It will take you the better part of an hour to do it on a modern Galaxy device and it requires a good selection of tools. That's a hurdle most people will not jump over.

Then bring your phone to a repair shop which offers it as a service. This is btw what right to repair is all about. Providing skilled people with the required parts, tools and knowledge.

16 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I just checked the iFixit guide for the 12 Pro Max and you have to literally disassemble all internals to get to the battery. Are you sure 34 steps and 1 to 2 hours of your life are "best-in-class" repairability?

I suggest to have a closer look at the complexity of these steps, most are very small as the ifixit guides are excellently detailed. It's the same procedure as for many generations. Remove screen, remove all components that block access to pull stripes, pull them. It looks like a ton and for someone doing it the first time, takes the advertised 1-2 hours. That being said, you only have to do it once every few years or simply give it to someone that does it for a living.

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Batteries in phones do degrade after several years, and you shouldn't be concerned with using the phone how you want to because of the battery, most phones would last much longer if the battery could be easily swapped out.

quantify "much longer".

I don't believe its long enough to make a difference. I believe this idea that phones with new batteries last so long you don't need a power bank while old phone batteries are so bad that you do need a power bank is not based in reality.

[HenrySalayne]

25 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Then bring your phone to a repair shop which offers it as a service. This is btw what right to repair is all about. Providing skilled people with the required parts, tools and knowledge.

Not at all, look it up.

The employee and the workspace in this kind of industry will cost you at least $30 per hour. So a 1 hour battery replacement with profit margin and replacement parts will easily set you back $80. Just because the manufacturer made it unnecessarily hard to replace components.

30 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I suggest to have a closer look at the complexity of these steps, most are very small as the ifixit guides are excellently detailed. It's the same procedure as for many generations. Remove screen, remove all components that block access to pull stripes, pull them. It looks like a ton and for someone doing it the first time, takes the advertised 1-2 hours. That being said, you only have to do it once every few years or simply give it to someone that does it for a living.

Remember the iPhone 4S? Are you really sure you want to defend "newer" iPhone models? Utter garbage.

[Blademaster91]

39 minutes ago, poochyena said:

quantify "much longer".

I don't believe its long enough to make a difference. I believe this idea that phones with new batteries last so long you don't need a power bank while old phone batteries are so bad that you do need a power bank is not based in reality.

Newer phones should last 4-5 years, the CPU in even mid-range phones are more than fast enough for daily use.

It depends what someone does with their phone, if you consider gaming on a phone as "abuse" then the phone battery will degrade much quicker than using the phone for messaging or using Chrome or Firefox. Gaming on a phone is getting more popular as most phones have capable hardware, doesn't require buying another system to play games on or buy a subscription to play online, and consoles are unavailable or overpriced.

10 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Not at all, look it up.

The employee and the workspace in this kind of industry will cost you at least $30 per hour. So a 1 hour battery replacement with profit margin and replacement parts will easily set you back $80. Just because the manufacturer made it unnecessarily hard to replace components.

And most people don't want to give up their phone for a few days while waiting for a technician to fix it. Right to repair includes independent repair, so even the end user would be able to buy parts, for example Motorola supports right to repair and you can get screens and batteries from iFixit.

[Dracarris]

21 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Not at all, look it up.

I suggest you look it up and specifically watch Louis Rossmanns videos on that matter. RTR specifically does not make manufacturers any regulations and limitations on how to design their products. It simply means parts, tools and guides must be made available. That may include guides costing money and may exclude the general public as is the case with schematics for the framework laptops (due to licensing/NDA issues).

21 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

So a 1 hour battery replacement with profit margin and replacement parts will easily set you back $80.

Wrong. Not even Apple charges that much, including the battery, indies will be cheaper. You will only pay for the work of an indie shop, will set you back 20$-40$ depending on the complexity of the repair. A very, very low amount considering how infrequently you have to pay it (ofc excluding part cost, you need to pay for a new battery in any case).

11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And most people don't want to give up their phone for a few days while waiting for a technician to fix it.

A battery swap is literally done while the customer eats lunch.

[Zodiark1593]

I am a bit above Average Joe when it comes to dexterity, so opening up iPhones isn’t a problem. So the lack of a user-replaceable battery isn’t a big problem for myself so long as a) I can actually get reputable parts, b)the battery is reasonably sized to begin with, and c) there isn’t mounds of glue in the way. 
 

That said, I do really like what Fairphone is doing here. My Dad would certainly benefit as he drops his phone a lot. The improvements they’ve made are substantial, and will make it trivial to replace broken parts. However, for a device meant to be kept alive for many years, they should’ve gone far more aggressive on the SoC. A 750G is lower mid-range at best, and four years or so down the road, will be feeling pretty lacking.
 

The other hesitation is more a personal use case, however, the only thing I’ve ever had to replace in my own phones are batteries, and as said above, a 30 minute job at worst. There are certainly a few people who would benefit from the repairability of a Fairphone, but for myself, repairs almost never come up, and I hold onto phones for a long time. So the price premium I feel would be close to wasted on me, or would be closer akin to insurance. 

[Senzelian]

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

How about a phone that lasts a full day on a single charge.

The Pixel 5 lasts me 2 days. I'm now at 69% at the end of the day.

The Fairphone 4's battery is almost the same size.

What makes you think it wouldn't last 24 hours? 

 

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

I am so happy about this. Instead of a universal USB power bank that can charge every mobile device, I can now carry around a device-specific spare battery that is unnecessarily larger as it must be stab-protected.

 

Instead of having space for a battery that lasts all day, I can now worry every day about how I keep my phone alive and manage the charge status of multiple batteries for a single device. That is so much fun.

 

Glue that sucker in and make it easy to remove with properly designed pull tabs. End of story.

 

The point of a battery that isn't glued in, isn't so you can swap it in the middle of the day for a new one.

The people that made you think that, need help.

[poochyena]

41 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Newer phones should last 4-5 years, the CPU in even mid-range phones are more than fast enough for daily use.

It depends what someone does with their phone, if you consider gaming on a phone as "abuse" then the phone battery will degrade much quicker than using the phone for messaging or using Chrome or Firefox. Gaming on a phone is getting more popular as most phones have capable hardware, doesn't require buying another system to play games on or buy a subscription to play online, and consoles are unavailable or overpriced.

you didn't address a single thing from my comment. I don't consider gaming as abuse.

[Dracarris]

39 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

What makes you think it wouldn't last 24 hours? 

I was assuming that since everyone here was screaming "omg so cool I can swap my battery mid day".

40 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

The point of a battery that isn't glued in, isn't so you can swap it in the middle of the day for a new one.

The people that made you think that, need help.

If it's not this, then what is it? If the answer seriously is that the only/main purpose is an easy swap every few years due to degradation of the old one, then I seriously have to question whether the people that support this concept need help.

To re-iterate, you sacrifice being water proof/sealed and a good chunk of device volume (disadvantages that you daily, constantly have) solely to ease a process that you have to carry out once every 2-4 years? Really?

[Senzelian]

46 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

If it's not this, then what is it? If the answer seriously is that the only/main purpose is an easy swap every few years due to degradation of the old one, then I seriously have to question whether the people that support this concept need help.

To re-iterate, you sacrifice being water proof/sealed and a good chunk of device volume (disadvantages that you daily, constantly have) solely to ease a process that you have to carry out once every 2-4 years?

 

The point is, that even my mother could replace the battery and is actually willing to do it. She used to do exactly that with older phones that also had that feature, but wouldn't do it anymore, because it obviously is so hard to do it now with modern phones. On top of that, it isn't exactly cheap to get your battery replaced by someone else, which makes just buying a new phone a much easier choice. The idea here is to prevent the user from even coming up with the idea of replacing the device, when there is no need for it.

 

How often do you submerge your phone under water, that you need it to be waterproof? More often than every 2-4 years?

An IP54 rating is absolutely enough for a mobile device. My OnePlus 1 and 2, both phones on which you can take the plastic back off, were doing just fine under the shower.

 

I can live with my phone having a little smaller battery, due to it being user replaceable. I think that is a fair trade that more people should be willing to make.

 

46 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Really?

 

Yes, really. 

 

Normal should be to replace your battery every 2-4 years, since the phone is still in good condition, because you took care of it.
Normal shouldn't be to drop your phone into your toilet, because "eh whatever it's waterproof."

[Dracarris]

14 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

The point is, that even my mother could replace the battery and is actually willing to do it. She used to do exactly that with older phones that also had that feature, but wouldn't do it anymore, because it obviously is so hard to do it now with modern phones.

But your mother is able to bring the phone to a local repair shop?

14 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

On top of that, it isn't exactly cheap to get your battery replaced by someone else, which makes just buying a new phone a much easier choice

That's simply not true. Apple charges 50$-80$, including the battery itself. Indie repair shops will do it cheaper and subtracting the cost for the battery itself, investing 20$-40$ every couple of years to get additional years of lifetime can hardly be called expensive.

14 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

How often do you submerge your phone under water, that you need it to be waterproof? More often than every 2-4 years?

An IP54 rating is absolutely enough for a mobile device.

Yeah sure. I personally never had a water accident but many people are clumsy and if you are unlucky enough your phone will die through being exposed to heavy rain. No matter what the mechanism is: A phone with water damage is very often actual e-waste. A phone with a glued battery can still be battery-serviced.

 

The fact that you are even questioning the need for phones to be water proof (unitl now universally accepted to be a significant advantage/feature) highlights on what lost grounds people in favor of removable batteries fight.

[Senzelian]

40 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

But your mother is able to bring the phone to a local repair shop?

That's where the expensive battery replacement part comes in ...

 

40 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

That's simply not true. Apple charges 50$-80$, including the battery itself. Indie repair shops will do it cheaper and subtracting the cost for the battery itself, investing 20$-40$ every couple of years to get additional years of lifetime can hardly be called expensive.

... which you answered yourself basically.

 

In Germany it is around 70€ to get a battery replacement for a Galaxy S20.

On top of that it's simply inconvinient, when the solution could be to order a new battery and replace it yourself in 1 minute.

 

You completely ignored the point, which was that people tend to replace their phone, if the repair is even slightly inconvenient.

 

40 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

and if you are unlucky enough your phone will die through being exposed to heavy rain.

what?! Now you're just making up excuses. 

 

40 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

The fact that you are even questioning the need for phones to be water proof (unitl now universally accepted to be a significant advantage/feature) highlights on what lost grounds people in favor of removable batteries fight.

It is IP54 protected.

The Galaxy S5 had an IP67 rating and it had a user replaceable battery and a plastic back!

 

I admit, phones might be larger with user-replaceable batteries or have lower capacity batteries, fair point, but everything else you brought up is utter nonsene, proven by phones like the Galaxy S5, from 2014.

At this point, I'm done. There's nothing left to argue.

[HenrySalayne]

20 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

The fact that you are even questioning the need for phones to be water proof (unitl now universally accepted to be a significant advantage/feature) highlights on what lost grounds people in favor of removable batteries fight.

There is a slight difference between "survives rain and being dropped in the toilet for mere seconds" (IP54) and "can be sitting under water for hours or even years" (IP68). The Fairphone can still be considered water-proof for normal, everyday use.

 

BTW: if you open your IP68 device, the IP rating is gone. It's probably still relatively tight but there is no guarantee. So you are basically downgrading your phone to the level of the Fairphone.

33 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Indie repair shops will do it cheaper and subtracting the cost for the battery itself, investing 20$-40$ every couple of years to get additional years of lifetime can hardly be called expensive.

I don't know where you are living and what the wages are but this is not a sustainable business model. At least not if you have to invest almost an hour for a single device.

 

[Dracarris]

35 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

In Germany it is around 70€ to get a battery replacement for a Galaxy S20.

On top of that it's simply inconvinient, when the solution could be to order a new battery and replace it yourself in 1 minute.

And you completely ignore that your 70€ include the price of the battery which you always pay, even if you order a new battery yourself! Subtract the price of the battery and you are left with maybe 30€-40€ once in 2-4years! Is that so hard to grasp?

35 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

You completely ignored the point, which was that people tend to replace their phone, if the repair is even slightly inconvenient.

So you want to tell me that people will spend hundres of €s on a new phone instead of bringing the old one to a repair shop and spending 10s of €s for a battery replacement service? But going online, searching for and ordering a replacement battery for 10s of €s they will do? Your are really standing on really thin ice.

35 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

The Galaxy S5 had an IP67 rating and it had a user replaceable battery and a plastic back!

Which is still less than properly sealed phones which easily survice days or even weeks under several meters of water. And if it's so easily done, then why is the fair phone only IP54?

31 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

if you open your IP68 device, the IP rating is gone. It's probably still relatively tight but there is no guarantee. So you are basically downgrading your phone to the level of the Fairphone.

If done properly (or at a capable repairshop) you can reseal it. If you get the swap done from the manufacturer, you even get their guarantee. Which matters little if the actual protection is there.

31 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I don't know where you are living and what the wages are but this is not a sustainable business model. At least not if you have to invest almost an hour for a single device.

Subtract the cost of a replacement battery from the quoted prices for a swap and you are at what I said. And a trained and experienced shop doesn't use a full hour for a swap.